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Don Shadow
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.08.03 10:18:00 - [1261]
 

Originally by: speedcat
Enuf is enuf :-)

No serious... READ THIS... this discussion getting ugly.

1) The people who tells us that everything a curse or gallente pilot wants to, he can also after the new patch... >> then WHY, WHY you want to change it ??? huh?

2) The people who fears Large NOS on a battleship (I repeat: BATTLESHIP), that kind of ship in every movie destroys everything almost alone... it's not for fun called large NOS, and NO, a battleship pilot don't want to be scrambled through a single Rifter for the whole day... it's called BATTLEship for a reason !!! It's called LARGE NOS for a reason.
And believe it or not, I hate those ships, I don't even fly a NOS-Domi... my Domi (rest in peace) was fitted with a tank and gang support instead of the da*n NOS.

3) CCP... please, stop nerfing. Some people said it already in here. They learnt from others fittings, they learnt from getting NOSed because of getting to close to a Domi, this is a lesson which I learnt also by myself. But there are also possibilites to withstand a NOS-Domi.
Not even the Passive-Shield-Tank-Nerf was that hard. This NOS Nerf changes a lot of fittings, funny fittings, excellent fittings for absolutely no reason. Only because some incompetent (not even Noobs) wanna be professionals whined the whole day instead of train themselfs.
The Domi has already been nerfed in speed together with the Phoon. And this was great, it really gave no reason a Battleship was flying that fast. It was a joke and it's history.

4)To everyone thinking after this the NOS-Domis will vanish. You're wrong, as I said in another posting, a Domi has the Powergrid and the CAP to maintain the Neuts. But all the smaller ships with great fittings haven't.

5) JUST DON'T DO IT THIS WAY CCP... IT's WRONG AND YOU NOW IT !

6) Others said it before. The people who can think out of the box can also think about a method to get a NOS-Domi down. It happens, every day, NOS-Domis exploding and people are happy with their idea to get them down. THIS IS EVE!

Stop being happy with this patch as it is... think for everyone and not only for your ship you currently flying... or should we nerf that d*mn speed of the Vagabond... Stabber? Other Minmatar-Ships... should this also been nerfed? Or is just "standard" for Minmatar-Pilots that they are 5 times faster than everyone else, can deal every damage and can take quite good?

Is it? NO, okey then stop... and CCP... your fans inside this game gave you some very good ideas to implement good solutions which are not "nerfing", they are just great.

br
speed


Look here, if i ever need to play a "balanced" game, i'll go and play chess!! until then i like eve just how it is right now, "unbalanced". What balance we will get next month? damps? vaga? LET THOSE ****ING NOSES ALONE!

@CCP your main problem right now, is the ***ing LAG!!!
try at least to reduce him, not to make him bigger!


Bentula
Posted - 2007.08.03 10:25:00 - [1262]
 

Originally by: Mack Dorgeans
If Nosferatu mechanics really must be changed, then I still say they should deal with cap recharge rate rather than actual cap.

Look, there are multiple ways to increase cap, and multiple ways to increase cap recharge. Obviously you want to make neutralizers more prominent, which is fine so long as the modules are adjusted so they make sense for most ships, not just the battleships.

What we're still missing is an offensive option for reducing an opponent's cap recharge. Why not stop having two modules so closely related, and change Nosferatus so they fill the void? Keeping cap drain for the Nos but imposing arbitrary restrictions that make no sense is a waste of effort. Why not ADD something to the game instead of only taking away?

If you deal in cap recharge percentages, a larger ship doesn't necessarily have the advantage over everything smaller anymore. Small ships, even with a lower recharge percentage effect on their vampires, can be just as effective in groups as large ships.

Come on, put those game-design minds to work and come up with something positive!




Caprecharge is utterly useless in todays battles. You either have capcharges, or you have run out of em and die. For all i care there could be a module setting cap recharge to 0 for an enemy ship, it wouldnt make even a minuscle difference to ships equipped with a injector.

Well actually it would make a difference, but it would still be useless. Caprecharge is simply to small to even be remotly able to run offensive and defensive modules together on BS.

akim
Posted - 2007.08.03 10:25:00 - [1263]
 

People are focussing too much on the NOS nerf, and not enough on the fact that the khanid changes are somewhat rubbish.

NOS will be nerfed, doubt anything will change that. The flavour of the month whiners, have won yet another round of destroying the diversity of this game, 1 module/ship at a time.

But please don't ruin the damnation, it's not needed, it's already the worst fleet command ship in the game, why nerf it even further? By removing the PG, you'll gimp 1 of the 2 things that it actualy is good at. Running gang mods and tanking.

I'd like to see the HAM bonus changed to a general missile bonus as well. Or boost the speed of HAMs without changing flight time, so they can actually be used. The speed should be boosted enough, to put them in 20-30km range depending on skill. This would just about match light missile range, and the added speed would enable them to actually hit something before it's out of range.

Baynex
Amarr
Lasciate Ogne Speranza
Posted - 2007.08.03 10:51:00 - [1264]
 

Originally by: Mortuus
Oh noes, I can no play without Nos, I have no skills.

Or...Wait, none of my ships use nos. Sweet, so I don't have to worry about it so much. Good no more "hmmm, that ships probably has nos, I don't use them, time to move along and leave it alone" decisions.

All you noobs who needed nos on your ships to live are fresh meat.


Yeah, tell that to people who pilot ships like the pilgrim and curse, who used it not as a defensive device, but as a weapon. How would you like it if we nerfed all gunnery by making it unable to deal damage to structure.Question

Mack Dorgeans
Camelot Innovations
Posted - 2007.08.03 10:53:00 - [1265]
 

Edited by: Mack Dorgeans on 03/08/2007 10:53:22

Originally by: Bentula
Originally by: Mack Dorgeans
If Nosferatu mechanics really must be changed, then I still say they should deal with cap recharge rate rather than actual cap.

Look, there are multiple ways to increase cap, and multiple ways to increase cap recharge. Obviously you want to make neutralizers more prominent, which is fine so long as the modules are adjusted so they make sense for most ships, not just the battleships.

What we're still missing is an offensive option for reducing an opponent's cap recharge. Why not stop having two modules so closely related, and change Nosferatus so they fill the void? Keeping cap drain for the Nos but imposing arbitrary restrictions that make no sense is a waste of effort. Why not ADD something to the game instead of only taking away?

If you deal in cap recharge percentages, a larger ship doesn't necessarily have the advantage over everything smaller anymore. Small ships, even with a lower recharge percentage effect on their vampires, can be just as effective in groups as large ships.

Come on, put those game-design minds to work and come up with something positive!




Caprecharge is utterly useless in todays battles. You either have capcharges, or you have run out of em and die. For all i care there could be a module setting cap recharge to 0 for an enemy ship, it wouldnt make even a minuscle difference to ships equipped with a injector.

Well actually it would make a difference, but it would still be useless. Caprecharge is simply to small to even be remotly able to run offensive and defensive modules together on BS.


Maybe it's useless to some, but not to everyone, just like any tactic. Sometimes you just can't fit a large enough booster.

Besides, given a choice, I'd rather have a module that actually DOES SOMETHING when I turn it on, instead of one that will MAYBE do something, depending upon conditions that you can't verify, since we don't have a targeted ship cap readout.

Baynex
Amarr
Lasciate Ogne Speranza
Posted - 2007.08.03 10:54:00 - [1266]
 

ShockedWARNING LOGIC PRESENT BELOW THIS LINE!Shocked
---------------------------------------------
Nos is a weapon, make it use a hardpoint!

Gawain Hill
Posted - 2007.08.03 10:58:00 - [1267]
 

ok people stop saying nos is fine

it's really not hell i even had a lil play with it with a corp mate same ship different fittings
i decided to go with a high damage dual injected lotsa guns kinda thing to start with.... i ran out of cap charges while being nosed and slowly died

then i went with 7 nos and 1 mega pulse against 5 nos and 3 pulse i'll tell you what 7 nos wins out right with cap and tank to spare along with a cargo hold full of cap boosters

nos shouldn't be the way to kill anything it's slow dull no fun and i even went afk for a while to come back to an almost dead corp mate asking me to stop shooting as he couldn't do anything about it (yea i scrammed him as i was bored)

now it did take a while to suck him dry with nos but if you want to kill cap use neuts it's what they are ment for

as for nos-domi sure they are evil but a nos-baddon with a couple of large smart bombs 6 heavy nos and 2 smart bombs wins out right since you can't be out tanked or out nosed and his drones go pretty quickly too (though i've never tried it because it's no fun to fly)

torN Deception
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.08.03 11:16:00 - [1268]
 

Edited by: torN Deception on 03/08/2007 11:22:40
Edited by: torN Deception on 03/08/2007 11:21:12
Edited by: torN Deception on 03/08/2007 11:20:39
A while back when CCP first mentioned it was thinking about nerfing NOS down the road(not so far down the road it turned out), you mentioned one possible nerf as making NOS sig radius penalized. This seems to me both a far fairer solution, but a more elegant one as well.

I think it's fair to say that 90% of the whining about NOS is due to heavy NOS. That's because nosferatu are the only offensive highslot module that are completely unaffected by the target's qualities. Sig radius, velocity, tracking, none of it matters. Unlike missiles or turrets, it's just as effective against a tiny interceptor doing 5km/s in orbit, and a huge battleship doing 10m/s. That becomes the biggest problem when the disparity between the target's ship class and the module size of the NOS is largest, which means heavy NOS.

That means that a heavy nosferatu is 100% effective against anything from a frigate up to a dreadnought. Since you're draining the same amount of cap per module activation in fact, that makes heavy nos far more effective against smaller ships than it is against larger ones, comparatively. You can blow away the cap of anything BC sized or smaller pretty quickly, and with it MWD and repping capability, if not weapon use as well.

So instead of overreacting and turning one of the most prominent modules in EVE all but useless, why not take the obvious solution that has been raised again and again in the "nerf NOS" threads and simply make nosferatu dependent on sig radius? A heavy diminishing nos will drain the full amount from a target with a sig radius of 400 or larger, but against a target the size of a thorax, or even more so a crow, it will drain far less capacitor while its activation cost for the battleship remains the same regardless.

The proposed solution changes none of this. Instead of fitting a large NOS on every battleship, players will stick on a heavy neut instead. It's still not sig penalized, which means it's still as effective as absolutely destroying the cap of any smaller ships that try to engage. Smart PvPers will still fit cap boosters because it'll let them field more durable tanks.

The reason NOS are so ubiquitous in that last empty slot on pretty much all battleships is because they're effective against everything. It means that ratting ships can very effectively deal with things like interceptor tacklers, or even hostile HACs, because a battleship-sized NOS will nuke their cap.

Make nos sig radius penalized and all of a sudden it is like other offensive modules only completely effective against ships the same class or larger. It no longer becomes the no-brainer choice to fill the final slot on a battleship but a module that has to be weighed against the other options.

To quote the devblog, NOS are "too powerful since there is no compromise involved." IT goes on to bring up the example of a battleship using its NOS against a frigate. The sig radius solution solves that exact issue.

Even if CCP doesn't think this is the right way to go, I'd at least like to know why. After all, they were considering as a solution a while back. Why did they think it was insufficient to fix NOS?

William DeMeo
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2007.08.03 11:32:00 - [1269]
 

Originally by: torN Deception
Edited by: torN Deception on 03/08/2007 11:22:40
Edited by: torN Deception on 03/08/2007 11:21:12
Edited by: torN Deception on 03/08/2007 11:20:39
A while back when CCP first mentioned it was thinking about nerfing NOS down the road(not so far down the road it turned out), you mentioned one possible nerf as making NOS sig radius penalized. This seems to me both a far fairer solution, but a more elegant one as well.

I think it's fair to say that 90% of the whining about NOS is due to heavy NOS. That's because nosferatu are the only offensive highslot module that are completely unaffected by the target's qualities. Sig radius, velocity, tracking, none of it matters. Unlike missiles or turrets, it's just as effective against a tiny interceptor doing 5km/s in orbit, and a huge battleship doing 10m/s. That becomes the biggest problem when the disparity between the target's ship class and the module size of the NOS is largest, which means heavy NOS.

That means that a heavy nosferatu is 100% effective against anything from a frigate up to a dreadnought. Since you're draining the same amount of cap per module activation in fact, that makes heavy nos far more effective against smaller ships than it is against larger ones, comparatively. You can blow away the cap of anything BC sized or smaller pretty quickly, and with it MWD and repping capability, if not weapon use as well.

So instead of overreacting and turning one of the most prominent modules in EVE all but useless, why not take the obvious solution that has been raised again and again in the "nerf NOS" threads and simply make nosferatu dependent on sig radius? A heavy diminishing nos will drain the full amount from a target with a sig radius of 400 or larger, but against a target the size of a thorax, or even more so a crow, it will drain far less capacitor while its activation cost for the battleship remains the same regardless.

The proposed solution changes none of this. Instead of fitting a large NOS on every battleship, players will stick on a heavy neut instead. It's still not sig penalized, which means it's still as effective as absolutely destroying the cap of any smaller ships that try to engage. Smart PvPers will still fit cap boosters because it'll let them field more durable tanks.

The reason NOS are so ubiquitous in that last empty slot on pretty much all battleships is because they're effective against everything. It means that ratting ships can very effectively deal with things like interceptor tacklers, or even hostile HACs, because a battleship-sized NOS will nuke their cap.

Make nos sig radius penalized and all of a sudden it is like other offensive modules only completely effective against ships the same class or larger. It no longer becomes the no-brainer choice to fill the final slot on a battleship but a module that has to be weighed against the other options.

To quote the devblog, NOS are "too powerful since there is no compromise involved." IT goes on to bring up the example of a battleship using its NOS against a frigate. The sig radius solution solves that exact issue.

Even if CCP doesn't think this is the right way to go, I'd at least like to know why. After all, they were considering as a solution a while back. Why did they think it was insufficient to fix NOS?


Yeah but the thing is though if they do that they'd need to take a serious look at interceptors since basically nothing but nos can defeat it, but if the nos has gotta get nerfed I'd rather see this happen or just make nos increase sig radius. This nos nerf is a serious overkill and not necessary in any way, shape or form. I really hope CCP read some of these posts. Got some good suggestions that'd be alot more fair then just completely screwing up nos.

PhantomVyper
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2007.08.03 11:41:00 - [1270]
 

Originally by: William DeMeo

Yeah but the thing is though if they do that they'd need to take a serious look at interceptors since basically nothing but nos can defeat it, but if the nos has gotta get nerfed I'd rather see this happen or just make nos increase sig radius. This nos nerf is a serious overkill and not necessary in any way, shape or form. I really hope CCP read some of these posts. Got some good suggestions that'd be alot more fair then just completely screwing up nos.


Really? Nothing than nos can defeat an interceptor? Sensor dampers, neut, there are several anti-inty ships out there. That the nos was a catch-all solution to a number of threats AND increased your own cap at the same time was one of the reasons it was unbalanced.

As for the sig radius sugestion, it wasn't used probably because the moment a smaller ship used a MWD for anything it would be sucked dry.

torN Deception
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.08.03 11:44:00 - [1271]
 

Edited by: torN Deception on 03/08/2007 11:57:42
Originally by: Gawain Hill
ok people stop saying nos is fine

it's really not hell i even had a lil play with it with a corp mate same ship different fittings
i decided to go with a high damage dual injected lotsa guns kinda thing to start with.... i ran out of cap charges while being nosed and slowly died

then i went with 7 nos and 1 mega pulse against 5 nos and 3 pulse i'll tell you what 7 nos wins out right with cap and tank to spare along with a cargo hold full of cap boosters fly)


What ships and what fittings? You're in the worst case scenario since you're doing this with amarr: he's going to tank your damage types very well and you've going to be the most vulnerable of any race to NOS. A raven or maelstrom, even a blasterthron, would have blown him away. Even then, even if you were in the worst case of the worst scenarios and were in abaddons, two heavy cap boosters should be enough to sustain your guns.

Besides, if your opponent had fit guns instead and two heavy injectors of his own, he could have run a dual-rep setup with guns blazing and blown you away even faster.

Originally by: PhantomVyper
Originally by: William DeMeo

As for the sig radius sugestion, it wasn't used probably because the moment a smaller ship used a MWD for anything it would be sucked dry.



A larger sig radius is one of the penalties of MWD use, so I don't necessarily see that as a huge issue. Even then, something like a MWDing crow's got a sig radius of under 200m, which would be enough to greatly reduce cap damage with the right penalty curves. And worst case, a ship with a large enough sig radius gets NOSed while MWDing and suffers the same effect as it does now.

If CCP isn't content with that, have the NOS calculations on sig radius be affected only by base sig radius of the target. Or have the penalty be calculated by something that will appropriately penalize using larger modules on smaller ships. Maybe a penalty based on total capacitor size, with penalties starting at cap capacities lower than 5k.

Phaedruss
Rat Katchers inc.
Posted - 2007.08.03 11:59:00 - [1272]
 

Originally by: Gawain Hill
ok people stop saying nos is fine

it's really not hell i even had a lil play with it with a corp mate same ship different fittings
i decided to go with a high damage dual injected lotsa guns kinda thing to start with.... i ran out of cap charges while being nosed and slowly died

then i went with 7 nos and 1 mega pulse against 5 nos and 3 pulse i'll tell you what 7 nos wins out right with cap and tank to spare along with a cargo hold full of cap boosters

nos shouldn't be the way to kill anything it's slow dull no fun and i even went afk for a while to come back to an almost dead corp mate asking me to stop shooting as he couldn't do anything about it (yea i scrammed him as i was bored)

now it did take a while to suck him dry with nos but if you want to kill cap use neuts it's what they are ment for

as for nos-domi sure they are evil but a nos-baddon with a couple of large smart bombs 6 heavy nos and 2 smart bombs wins out right since you can't be out tanked or out nosed and his drones go pretty quickly too (though i've never tried it because it's no fun to fly)


and who would have won that fight if one of you had fitted more guns and less NOS and engaged from outside 25km?

William DeMeo
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2007.08.03 12:10:00 - [1273]
 

Originally by: PhantomVyper
Originally by: William DeMeo

Yeah but the thing is though if they do that they'd need to take a serious look at interceptors since basically nothing but nos can defeat it, but if the nos has gotta get nerfed I'd rather see this happen or just make nos increase sig radius. This nos nerf is a serious overkill and not necessary in any way, shape or form. I really hope CCP read some of these posts. Got some good suggestions that'd be alot more fair then just completely screwing up nos.


Really? Nothing than nos can defeat an interceptor? Sensor dampers, neut, there are several anti-inty ships out there. That the nos was a catch-all solution to a number of threats AND increased your own cap at the same time was one of the reasons it was unbalanced.

As for the sig radius sugestion, it wasn't used probably because the moment a smaller ship used a MWD for anything it would be sucked dry.


Damps don't kill inty's, neuts count as nos in this case.

William DeMeo
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2007.08.03 12:13:00 - [1274]
 

Originally by: Natsuki
Originally by: CoLe Blackblood
After NOS I think missiles need looking into. Right now they fly too far and hit for too much damage, effectively destroying all targets within a given time.




what are you smoking? ever seen heavy precision missiles hit a vaga for 0.0 damage? cause they do 99% of the time.


I think he was being ironic Very Happy

torN Deception
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.08.03 12:29:00 - [1275]
 

Originally by: William DeMeo

Damps don't kill inty's, neuts count as nos in this case.


A single unbonused t2 RSD is going to bring a LRT V crow to a lock range of about 15 km, and an orbit inside that if it doesn't want to worry about losing lock. Two RSDs brings it inside web range, and it's bye-bye crow. It's even worse for other interceptors with shorter base targeting ranges.

Damps themselves may not kill intys, but it forces them to either choose between losing the tackle or putting their ships in far greater danger.

Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.03 12:36:00 - [1276]
 


Vrikshaka
Yawn Corp
Posted - 2007.08.03 12:45:00 - [1277]
 

Sorry if this suggestion has already been made:

Add skills for cap drain mods.

To me it defies all logic that there should be no skill at all to influence nos/neuts. They are weapons and all other weapons have corresponding skills that improve their performance. As it is, a noob with Energy Emission Systems III can use a heavy nos just as effectively as someone who has been specialising exclusively in the nos/drones tactic for years. It just doesn't make sense.

I'm fine with the way in which nos is being nerfed, but I think it needs further balancing. Skills for cap drain mods would solve this elegantly - while at the same time acknowledging the nos/drones tactic and giving new means to those who choose to spend their skill training time on it.

My suggestion would be to keep the nerf as it is, but introduce skills which would reduce it's effect:

-one skill which allows nos to transfer more than the cap charge of the aggressing ship, by some % per skill level. Not so much that nos could totally drain the target's cap, but maybe to at least 50% of the aggressor's cap charge level (with skill lvl V).

-one skill that would lower the cap use of neuts.

Make them high level skills so that people can't train them without sacrificing something else, maybe with for instance Signal Suppression as a model. Sensor Dampeners aren't all that uber for people that don't have any skills for them, but very powerful for those who train Signal Suppression IV/V and Sensor Linking V - which takes a good amount of time away from other skill training. Let it be the same way with nos.

As an example, the Curse right now (after nerf) is just a little too tough to fly. Sure, one can use injectors and more neuts, but it's just too easy to get totally drained oneself and very quickly become a total sitting duck. With skills, those that specialise in flying it could tip that balance somewhat, without it ever having to again become as all-powerful as before the nerf.

Again: nos/neuts are weapons, and all other weapons are dependant on skills. That there should be no skills for cap drain mods just doesn't make any sense.




Julius Romanus
Amarr
Posted - 2007.08.03 12:45:00 - [1278]
 

Originally by: Perry
Zealot Ohmpf + 90Powergrid
Armageddon Ohmpf +30Cpu



Angelus Fade
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2007.08.03 13:12:00 - [1279]
 

If I read this topic I think CCP will lose a massive ammount of players due to this nerf...

Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.03 13:20:00 - [1280]
 

Lets see who will leave EvE:

-Gallente easy mode nos/drone pilots
-Amarr Recon Alts with curses on their skillplan
-Amarr turret-only khanid lovers with too much ego

Can i have their stuff? Now lets see who will stay:

-Amarr loyalists who sticked with amarr hoping for balance
-New players who picked amarr
-Skilled Pilots who know other tricks then orbit/damp
-Me

PhantomVyper
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2007.08.03 13:36:00 - [1281]
 

Originally by: William DeMeo
Originally by: PhantomVyper
Originally by: William DeMeo

Yeah but the thing is though if they do that they'd need to take a serious look at interceptors since basically nothing but nos can defeat it, but if the nos has gotta get nerfed I'd rather see this happen or just make nos increase sig radius. This nos nerf is a serious overkill and not necessary in any way, shape or form. I really hope CCP read some of these posts. Got some good suggestions that'd be alot more fair then just completely screwing up nos.


Really? Nothing than nos can defeat an interceptor? Sensor dampers, neut, there are several anti-inty ships out there. That the nos was a catch-all solution to a number of threats AND increased your own cap at the same time was one of the reasons it was unbalanced.

As for the sig radius sugestion, it wasn't used probably because the moment a smaller ship used a MWD for anything it would be sucked dry.


Damps don't kill inty's, neuts count as nos in this case.


Really, you are trully an expert in this game, I bow to your superior logic and knowledge! /sarcasm

1: Interceptors have crappy lock ranges, one skilled or two normal damps will force the interceptor to flee or close into web range. Do you know what happens to a webbed interceptor?!?

2: No a neut is nothing like a nos because not only a neut is harder to fit but takes away your cap at the same time as it takes away theirs, has pretty much the same counters as the nos currently has and will also be countered by the new nos version. So its not an automatic module for that last high slot...

William DeMeo
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2007.08.03 13:49:00 - [1282]
 

Hey, dumbass. An inty pilot with an IQ of 2 will never allow themselves to get into web range since, YES, they do die to webs. But they also do 5km/s. So all you can do with damps is make inty's run away, not kill it. So I said, damps do not kill inty's, do they now?

Also, neuts do exactly the same thing as nos but less well. So in this particular case, I will count them as nos's as they are indeed effective for inty killing (though they suck for everything else)

Thanks for not thinking yourself and reading my post. bai.

PhantomVyper
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2007.08.03 13:58:00 - [1283]
 

Originally by: William DeMeo
Hey, dumbass. An inty pilot with an IQ of 2 will never allow themselves to get into web range since, YES, they do die to webs. But they also do 5km/s. So all you can do with damps is make inty's run away, not kill it. So I said, damps do not kill inty's, do they now?

Also, neuts do exactly the same thing as nos but less well. So in this particular case, I will count them as nos's as they are indeed effective for inty killing (though they suck for everything else)

Thanks for not thinking yourself and reading my post. bai.


Damn you really are a ****** aren't you? What good is an inty that can't lock you let alone tackle?!?!

Who cares if you killed him or not, you're big bad BS is now safe to go wherever you wan't. And you didn't said anything about killing the inty in your original post, you said that only a nos could "defeat" it. An interceptor who can't fullfil its role is defeated, doesn't mater if its dead or not.

Viashivan
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.03 14:01:00 - [1284]
 

Edited by: Viashivan on 03/08/2007 14:01:46
I'm fine with the NOS nerf. The module simply united too many advantages for next to no drawback.

Still I think that for ships that have a bonus for using nos (namely bloodraider and amarr recons) another solutions should be found. The argument simply nos other hostiles around und use neuts on the primary target is not a fair argument. Because that intentionally limits the ships usage to a small number of situations.

Furthermore after this change ships with nos bonuses are not consistent to the nos module anymore. What is the point of having a bonus for cap drainage, when you simply reach the point faster where no cap is drained?

Via



Hellspawn01
Amarr
Posted - 2007.08.03 14:01:00 - [1285]
 

Just strange that a nos takes mostly more than 1 cycle to kill an intys cap while a neut kills it instantly and then call nos overpowered.

Large named nos eats 120cap/12s at 25km range
Large named neut eats 600cap/24s at 25,2km range while draining less than 500cap (depends on skill, down to 375cap if Im correct)

So a L named neut kills 5x (!) times more cap than a nos and it isnt overpowered??? 3 of those damage active tanked ships in 2-3 cycles very hard so you need 5 L named nos to counter 1 L named neut and on top of that at 30% cap of your target, he can neut you but you cant nos him. Where is the logic behind this crap?

Gawain Hill
Posted - 2007.08.03 14:04:00 - [1286]
 

Originally by: Phaedruss
Originally by: Gawain Hill
ok people stop saying nos is fine

it's really not hell i even had a lil play with it with a corp mate same ship different fittings
i decided to go with a high damage dual injected lotsa guns kinda thing to start with.... i ran out of cap charges while being nosed and slowly died

then i went with 7 nos and 1 mega pulse against 5 nos and 3 pulse i'll tell you what 7 nos wins out right with cap and tank to spare along with a cargo hold full of cap boosters

nos shouldn't be the way to kill anything it's slow dull no fun and i even went afk for a while to come back to an almost dead corp mate asking me to stop shooting as he couldn't do anything about it (yea i scrammed him as i was bored)

now it did take a while to suck him dry with nos but if you want to kill cap use neuts it's what they are ment for

as for nos-domi sure they are evil but a nos-baddon with a couple of large smart bombs 6 heavy nos and 2 smart bombs wins out right since you can't be out tanked or out nosed and his drones go pretty quickly too (though i've never tried it because it's no fun to fly)


and who would have won that fight if one of you had fitted more guns and less NOS and engaged from outside 25km?


the guy who dosent warp off...

Borasao
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2007.08.03 14:04:00 - [1287]
 

Originally by: William DeMeo
Hey, dumbass. An inty pilot with an IQ of 2 will never allow themselves to get into web range since, YES, they do die to webs. But they also do 5km/s. So all you can do with damps is make inty's run away, not kill it. So I said, damps do not kill inty's, do they now?

Also, neuts do exactly the same thing as nos but less well. So in this particular case, I will count them as nos's as they are indeed effective for inty killing (though they suck for everything else)

Thanks for not thinking yourself and reading my post. bai.


Exactly... so a damped interceptor pilot (or any way you can make it run away) can't scramble you and hold you down while his buddies arrive. You warp off to safety. That is a 'win' for you. You don't have to blow a ship up to win... just neutralize it and/or drive it off is plenty sufficient much of the time (when solo particularly).

William DeMeo
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2007.08.03 14:04:00 - [1288]
 

Originally by: PhantomVyper
Originally by: William DeMeo
Hey, dumbass. An inty pilot with an IQ of 2 will never allow themselves to get into web range since, YES, they do die to webs. But they also do 5km/s. So all you can do with damps is make inty's run away, not kill it. So I said, damps do not kill inty's, do they now?

Also, neuts do exactly the same thing as nos but less well. So in this particular case, I will count them as nos's as they are indeed effective for inty killing (though they suck for everything else)

Thanks for not thinking yourself and reading my post. bai.


Damn you really are a ****** aren't you? What good is an inty that can't lock you let alone tackle?!?!

Who cares if you killed him or not, you're big bad BS is now safe to go wherever you wan't. And you didn't said anything about killing the inty in your original post, you said that only a nos could "defeat" it. An interceptor who can't fullfil its role is defeated, doesn't mater if its dead or not.


Fact remains it's almost impossible to kill an inty without nos.

Voltaeis Gemini
Posted - 2007.08.03 14:09:00 - [1289]
 

Originally by: Gawain Hill
ok people stop saying nos is fine

it's really not hell i even had a lil play with it with a corp mate same ship different fittings
i decided to go with a high damage dual injected lotsa guns kinda thing to start with.... i ran out of cap charges while being nosed and slowly died

then i went with 7 nos and 1 mega pulse against 5 nos and 3 pulse i'll tell you what 7 nos wins out right with cap and tank to spare along with a cargo hold full of cap boosters

nos shouldn't be the way to kill anything it's slow dull no fun and i even went afk for a while to come back to an almost dead corp mate asking me to stop shooting as he couldn't do anything about it (yea i scrammed him as i was bored)

now it did take a while to suck him dry with nos but if you want to kill cap use neuts it's what they are ment for

as for nos-domi sure they are evil but a nos-baddon with a couple of large smart bombs 6 heavy nos and 2 smart bombs wins out right since you can't be out tanked or out nosed and his drones go pretty quickly too (though i've never tried it because it's no fun to fly)


This is the worst example ever... the game is rock paper siccors not rock rock rock.. how would your nos boat have handleld a sniper rokh at 200 km? I guessing poorly... NOS is just fine the way it is.. the only people who die in droves to it are the ones who have "one fitting" for a ship and keep buying and fitting the same stuff to get the same result..

PhantomVyper
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2007.08.03 14:09:00 - [1290]
 

Originally by: Hellspawn01
Just strange that a nos takes mostly more than 1 cycle to kill an intys cap while a neut kills it instantly and then call nos overpowered.

Large named nos eats 120cap/12s at 25km range
Large named neut eats 600cap/24s at 25,2km range while draining less than 500cap (depends on skill, down to 375cap if Im correct)

So a L named neut kills 5x (!) times more cap than a nos and it isnt overpowered??? 3 of those damage active tanked ships in 2-3 cycles very hard so you need 5 L named nos to counter 1 L named neut and on top of that at 30% cap of your target, he can neut you but you cant nos him. Where is the logic behind this crap?


- Neuts are harder to fit than Nos.
- Neuts don't nearly has many advantages as a Nos. For starters they drain your own cap at the same time instead of helping it.

So from those two facts: Neuts will not be used as comonly as Nos currently is effectivelly boosting a wholle lot of ship fittings that where perfectly viable if it wheren't for the overabundance of Nos. Dedicated Neut ships should still be a viable option and CCP has said that they are looking into it to make it so.


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