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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.08.01 09:37:00 - [781]
 

Originally by: Lord WarATron
Also note that I missed out target Navigation prediction and Guided Missile. These skills do not effect Hams or rockets.


GMP does not effect HAMs/rockets. TNP however most definately effects HAMs and I would be surprised if rockets would be uneffected.

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2007.08.01 09:41:00 - [782]
 

Edited by: Garia666 on 01/08/2007 09:41:16
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Oh and to the Amarr 'purists' who think its all laser laser laser, and *deadpan voice* "we don't touch missiles in the empire..."

What the heck is that then?!


hahah indeed but we always get EM bonusses not thermal.. sadly enough..

check our stealth bomber

Itburnz
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2007.08.01 09:45:00 - [783]
 

why not instead of nerfing nos dont you have them , have there own slot like the missile and turrent slots that way ships not nos neut specialized can only fit 1 or 2 nos. this way you dont need to change the effect of nos and fix the problem of people fitting a full rack of nos on ships like the domi.

Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
Posted - 2007.08.01 09:52:00 - [784]
 

Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 01/08/2007 09:55:18
Originally by: Ruffles

* 5% reduction of capacitor recharge time per HAS level (This is a really useless bonus for a missile only ship isn't it? A mixed ship using lasers, and this bonus is again useful)



Useless? You fly Amarr and you're looking down your nose at more cap? Cap = Life as you know well, and with the nos nerf, you might actually be able to keep a bit of it for yourself. If your missiles don't take cap, and you're getting up to 33% more from recharge (admittedly most will come from your Injector), you can run your reps more and make that Sac's tank even sicker.

Keep the turret slots, but not the bonuses, I'll agree with you there. Plus, you can easily boost the HAM's range to 10km or more with a few fairly quick skills, 15km theoretical (13-14km in practice) with maxed skills, and Javelins are quite long range.

You'll be amazed how few SP you really need in missiles to be effective with them, they take no finesse whatsoever. (I flew a Caracal with 47k in missiles for a while, sure it didn't wtfpwn anything but it did what I asked of it and ran most L3s well enough)

Only concern I have is with the cargo bay, it should be buffed a bit if this ship is to spew HAMs, considering their high RoF.

TheDevilsLawyer
Posted - 2007.08.01 09:54:00 - [785]
 

Edited by: TheDevilsLawyer on 01/08/2007 09:54:56
Originally by: PhantomVyper
THIS IS A BOOST TO SHIPS THAT ARE NOT CAP STABLE WITHOUT HELP!

If you need a nos in your current setup to keep your modules going, then this change won't affect you very much. Infact it will help you because your enemies won't be able to nos you dry UNLESS they spend more cap than you!


Sorry, you and everyone else who is saying this is wrong.

I will assume a "NOT CAP STABLE" ship goes up against a ship that does not depend on boosters or nos.

Firstly, your ship is more cap-reliant than theirs. If you nos them down to your level they care far less than you that they are at a low cap. If the enemy is smart and realizes your setup depends on nos, they will purposely run themselves to low cap, your setup won't be able to nos the cap you need, and you will die. You're giving the enemy player control of a situation you previously had control over. If you nos them down to zero, then you are dead, not them, as your setup is cap-reliant. Additionally, you fail to take into account neutralizers. The best PvPers already use neuts as an alternative to or in combination with nos, if fitting neuts becomes common your cap-relaint setup will suffer FAR more than others.

This change will make cap-reliant setups (pulse dual rep and the like) obselete. They won't be able to obtain the cap they need using nos because nos are unreliable and the enemy players know this. Sure, they don't have to face being nosed to death, rather, they commit nos-suicide or get neuted to death instead.

Ruffles
Posted - 2007.08.01 10:01:00 - [786]
 

Edited by: Ruffles on 01/08/2007 10:05:26
Quote:
Useless? You fly Amarr and you're looking down your nose at more cap? Cap = Life as you know well, and with the nos nerf, you might actually be able to keep a bit of it for yourself. If your missiles don't take cap, and you're getting up to 33% more from recharge (admittedly most will come from your Injector), you can run your reps more and make that Sac's tank even sicker.


Yes I fly amarr, and this ship also has a pretty decent cap recharge rate with our current loadouts. Adding more when we use less cap because the missile launchers use far far less cap then lasers seems like an incorrect bonus to me, and obviously many others that have already voiced it before me.

If it was along side Laser skills, then we would love that bonus I'm sure, but along side missile launchers that require how much cap use? Minimal/negligable/none? Why do we need the bonus in that situation?

Quote:
Keep the turret slots, but not the bonuses, I'll agree with you there. Plus, you can easily boost the HAM's range to 10km or more with a few fairly quick skills, 15km theoretical (13-14km in practice) with maxed skills, and Javelins are quite long range.


For laser users, we shouldn't have to spec to use the T2 missiles before the boat becomes effective. Kindof would be another kick to use to be honest.

Quote:
You'll be amazed how few SP you really need in missiles to be effective with them, they take no finesse whatsoever. (I flew a Caracal with 47k in missiles for a while, sure it didn't wtfpwn anything but it did what I asked of it and ran most L3s well enough)


You might be right, but it seems to then completely waste the time spent specializing in lasers, especially considering the ship currently uses lasers, so we all specialized that to get good use from her.

Quote:
Only concern I have is with the cargo bay, it should be buffed a bit if this ship is to spew HAMs, considering their high RoF.


Yes, that and the speed. Whilst the speed is still less then that of the Zealot, it strikes me the speed should be swapped with the Zealot. Sac faster, Zealot with the slightly slower speed they are suggesting the Sac should get.

Roninwolfie
Posted - 2007.08.01 10:06:00 - [787]
 

wow talk about not thinking about something lol , just give nos a stacking penalty or tracking or both gezz.

Tell u wat guys now the drake is even more uber lol , nos drake lol , passive tanked drake only has to keep his cap m/t an nos the other guy to death , no more nos domi , nos/drake FTL!!111!!

so i guess i will start trainging caldari.

gezz an i wasted a month on the pilgrim ugh i could have had t2 large lasers if i knew this was commming , thank god i didnt train up recon ships .....Neutral

Titus Lewis
Amarr
Suddenly Successful
Posted - 2007.08.01 10:15:00 - [788]
 

Edited by: Titus Lewis on 05/08/2007 04:22:33
Alright, I'm starting to come around on the Khanid changes. At first, I was a little on the bandwagon of the people that were so upset about all the gunnery skills going to waste and having to train missiles. I think the thing they don't understand is that it's relatively easy to train missiles, and compared to the gunnery skills needed to make lasers semi-effective its a breeze. Also, as long as this isn't the only plan to fix Amarr, we are okay. Lasers still need to be looked at, (cap? actual ship bonuses?) and beams still need to be able to be fit on our ships. Amarr still needs to be made more useful, but I'm starting to see this as at least a step in the right direction.
And the NOS thing? Yeah, long overdue.

Zikka
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.08.01 10:15:00 - [789]
 

Originally by: Long Fang
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Long Fang
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Long Fang

So all in all i now need another 5-7 mill SP to make my ships effective again



No you dont. You only need, 400-500k Missile skills for t2 hams + supporting skills to be effective. Missiles are very easy to train, unlike gunnery. I know - I have both Cool


500k in missiles vs my 10mill in gunnery, yeah thats gonna be the same


Yep. 500k sp to be effective with Missiles vs 5mil+ Gunnery to be effective with *Lasers*. It really is that easy.

Missiles are fine for close range stuff. At long range (e.g 100km+) missiles are useless, and thats where your 10mil+ gunnery skills kick in. Apples and oranges.

I too have pimp gunnery skills, and pimp missile skills - it really is a shock for Amarr pilots when they relise how easy it is to train for missiles.



HAM 5 on its own is 768,000 skill points. and that doesn't take into account

standard missiles
rockets
rocket spec
ham spec
missile lancher op
missile bombardment
rapid launch
target navigation projection
warhead upgrades

400k sp eh.....

ok.. done the math, i'm gonna need a further 3,194,039 sp to make theses changes 'wrk' guess i won't train bs 5 then


Why are you doing standard missiles and rocket spec?

For tech 2 hams you need missile launcher op 3, standard missiles 3, ham V.

That is around 2 weeks training.

To get all the support skills you need (nav prediction, warhead upgrades, rapid launch, projection, bombardment) to 3 or 4 will take about another week.

Yes getting the support skills to 5 will take longer, but that's hardly surprising. The point is you can be very effective in a sacrilige in 3 weeks.

Hell train HAM to 4 instead of 5 and use faction missiles in arbie launchers and you don't lose much effectiveness and shave most of two weeks off the training time.

Ruffles
Posted - 2007.08.01 10:27:00 - [790]
 

Quote:
Yes getting the support skills to 5 will take longer, but that's hardly surprising. The point is you can be very effective in a sacrilige in 3 weeks.


The one point being there, that those of us with the ship are then unable to use it for weeks, something we already own and use effectively with lasers (having specialized mediums for use on the Sac/Zea, etc).

Sure, give the ship the potential to use missiles as well, but not the only thing for a race that is turret centric. That's primarily what most people are saying. The option alone on the ship to use lots of launchers IF the pilot wants too will allow the choice.

Roninwolfie
Posted - 2007.08.01 10:30:00 - [791]
 

Originally by: Titus Lewis
Alright, I'm starting to come around on the Khanid changes. At first, I was a little on the bandwagon of the people that were so upset about all the gunnery skills going to waste and having to train missiles. I think the thing they don't understand is that it's relatively easy to train missiles, and compared to the gunnery skills needed to make lasers semi-effective its a breeze. Also, as long as this isn't the only plan to fix Ammar, we are okay. Lasers still need to be looked at, (cap? actual ship bonuses?) and beams still need to be able to be fit on our ships. Ammar still needs to be made more useful, but I'm starting to see this as at least a step in the right direction.
And the NOS thing? Yeah, long overdue.


hey im with u man , im going to train caldari an get me into a drake lol , nos/passive tanked drake ftw!!!

Lord Loom
Loom Service
Posted - 2007.08.01 10:39:00 - [792]
 

Edited by: Lord Loom on 01/08/2007 10:40:54
Originally by: Ruffles
PS In the old days I thought doing a Show Info on missiles in your hold or fitted would show them adjusted to your skills. Has this been changed, because it doesn't seem to adjust their attributes, so it's rather harder to determine accurate maximum ranges.


missiles in your hold don't show info after skills, only those loaded into launchers do IIRC (press ctrl-shift-f in space for the loadout screen, or use showinfo on your ship and check them in your modules tab)

Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2007.08.01 10:51:00 - [793]
 

The thing that is really bugging me about this nos change is that it gives crappy pilots (read low skills) an advantage over skilled pilots.

A percentage based approach is more useful, while i find the sig radius approach to hard to implement.

I would rather see Nos removed entirely then the implementation of the suggested changes.

The Khanid changes by Sarmaul were very good, i really like em and CCP would be well advised to stick to the original proposals.

Xyton Zatnox
Aku Soku Zan
Posted - 2007.08.01 10:54:00 - [794]
 

This is the most ridiculous patch ever. Among all those NOS changes, you decided to use this?

I mean how come you jump into any random idea without thinking consequences. This is not only a battleship vs frigate fight. There are many aspects of Nos, and this is the worst solution to it.

Not to mention 100000 ships nossing 1 ship but only 1 of them is in effect. What a bull.sh.t

Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2007.08.01 10:57:00 - [795]
 

Originally by: Xyton Zatnox
This is the most ridiculous patch ever. Among all those NOS changes, you decided to use this?

I mean how come you jump into any random idea without thinking consequences. This is not only a battleship vs frigate fight. There are many aspects of Nos, and this is the worst solution to it.

Not to mention 100000 ships nossing 1 ship but only 1 of them is in effect. What a bull.sh.t



I could not agree more, dude. You must think before you swing that Nerf bat CCP.

Or alternatively give us a decent boost in cap recharge for all ships. Ah well, you have forced me to become a sniper now. Thanks a bunch.

Ruffles
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:03:00 - [796]
 

Originally by: Lord Loom
missiles in your hold don't show info after skills, only those loaded into launchers do IIRC (press ctrl-shift-f in space for the loadout screen, or use showinfo on your ship and check them in your modules tab)


Thank you Loom, always good to learn new short-cuts since my return. Very Happy

Dajjal
Amarr
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:05:00 - [797]
 

the more i look at the changes the more i like them

and yes i am Amarr spec'd - but did train missiles to be able to use Khanid ships (more) effectively (although most of their ships had been 'inferior' the rest of the Amarr available ships due primarily to the mish mash of bonuses and slot layout)

i would, however, like to see PIE's views (seen a few posts by Rodj) as this affects them greatly (flying only Amarr...) plus having flown with them (and against them on the odd occasion since Wink) i greatly respect their knowledge and opinion of all things Amarr ship-related.


Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:13:00 - [798]
 

Originally by: Ruffles
Yes I fly amarr, and this ship also has a pretty decent cap recharge rate with our current loadouts. Adding more when we use less cap because the missile launchers use far far less cap then lasers seems like an incorrect bonus to me...


Then maybe you should take a look at what amount of cap the ship needs instead to guess how it "seems" to you.

The sacriledge is per its weapon boni a short range cruiser, the means it really needs a MWD to be effective. Which has a cap penality.
With the MWD cap penality and max skills the sac has 20.2 cap/sec recharge.

A MAR2 needs with max skills 17.8 cap/sec, a WD2 3.75. So it cannot even keep the scram and rep running permanently, WITH the cap recharge boost.

The cap recharge skill is rather useful.

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:18:00 - [799]
 

I've built a new nosdomi to take advantage of the new changes, should be pretty awesome when they hit. It'll not be affected by the changes significantly except that instead of running my cap as high as I can, I'll be purposefully keeping it low and using the cap as soon as I nos it out of the enemy. I have a few variations on it so far but my favourite is the passive tanked nos/neut domi for gang pvp.

At first I thought the change was insane, then I began to think about it a bit and draw some conclusions. It would have helped immensely if they had actually explained WHY they were choosing the solution they were, but nevertheless I came to a few conclusions. Nos will now balance out over the course of a fight. Your nos will become effective if you're losing a fight (cap-wise) but will become defective once you start winning. For cap-intensive ships that use a few nos, this will balance your cap to around the same level as your enemy's in the long term.

If your enemy's using cap boosters to keep his cap at about 30%, your nos will help your cap stabilise around that mark since if you have more than that, the nos will not suck anything. Before the change, it would just keep sucking and you could easily get your cap above the enemy's. This means that those using nos have a smaller advantage in a battle.

The unfortunate side-effect is that the optimum strategy for dedicated nos ships will now be to dump all of your capacitor to maximise nossing. Whether you dump it into an armour repairer or a shield booster doesn't matter, what matters is that you get rid of your capacitor. The lower your cap is, the better your nos will work and the less the enemy's nos will work on you. my personal favourite for a dedicated nos ship will be to mix nos and neuts in equal proportions as neuts use up the same amount of energy per second that their same-sized counterparts obtain. Activate the nos and then the neuts. This way, you can keep your cap near 0% and pull cap in then dump it into the neuts.

This all depends on what kind of balancing is done to the AMOUNT of cap the new nos suck. If they suck a percentage of the rated number on the module and the percentage is based on the difference between your two relative cap levels, they should be less of a force for ships fitting one or two and amazing for real dedicated capless nos ships. The trick would be to use a ship which requires no cap, a passive shield tanked drone ship with a wingman for tackling. The mydmidon and Dominix are still prime ships for this.

It'll be interesting to see how this makes it to tq.

Wataru Amnesia
Amarr
Taurus R and D Inc
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:21:00 - [800]
 

Dear ccp game-concept devs(i guess this issues are your part):

Khanid MK2:

Is it so hard to implement more crystals paired with the Energy Beam weapon Specialization skills and give them the other damage-types?

tbh i like Caldari, i like Missiles (hell i played missile boats in other MMORPGs for years), but i choose amarr cause of their unique insectoid behaviors and their LASERS.(Jenquai in heart, as amarr reborn:-) let the Progen rest within thou)

We all know how Amarr suck at this times, but since you add an non possible scientific addition like Heat, you cant really have probs with adding multi-damage crystals?

Its called revelations, reveal that the khanids stole some Jove-tricks and added them to the whole Amarr-fleet laser-technics? Or simple add a secound ammo-slot to current lasers and give a damage multiplier penalty if using both for the balance(well that one will need some graphic changes, too, but it is within eve´s scientific possibilities).

Seriously, the changes, will of course fix amarr, but after all its more or less just caldari-armor tanks you try to introduce(with different bonuses)

Cant be that much database work, some ammo BPOs, some tables with attributes & Info; database flush; seeding, done--> Balance-researchment(and no flames all the time)......i know it is less work to do then the one you announced, but i wish you luck anyway, it is your game and i am not your CEO or Teamleader(if i win in lotto that could change:-) )

Nos changes:

i dont care much about Nos, i need it in Pvp, once it gets nerfed that way as announced, i just switch to something else. Since rigs are in the game i guess many things can be compensated and Nos is more or less 1 of it. Thx tough for removing the Nos-Domi that way. We will adapt:-)

Wataru out

----Less is more----

PS: i thought over the time you devs needed to develope the announced changes active on Singularity. This is a message to the CEO of yours: dont stress your employees with time-frames, and let them read some good Sci-fi Technic novels. Good ideas are born in freaks, but freaks need time to reveal themselve to their CEO as geniuses!!! :-)

PhantomVyper
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:23:00 - [801]
 

Originally by: TheDevilsLawyer
Edited by: TheDevilsLawyer on 01/08/2007 09:54:56
Originally by: PhantomVyper
THIS IS A BOOST TO SHIPS THAT ARE NOT CAP STABLE WITHOUT HELP!

If you need a nos in your current setup to keep your modules going, then this change won't affect you very much. Infact it will help you because your enemies won't be able to nos you dry UNLESS they spend more cap than you!


Sorry, you and everyone else who is saying this is wrong.

I will assume a "NOT CAP STABLE" ship goes up against a ship that does not depend on boosters or nos.

Firstly, your ship is more cap-reliant than theirs. If you nos them down to your level they care far less than you that they are at a low cap. If the enemy is smart and realizes your setup depends on nos, they will purposely run themselves to low cap, your setup won't be able to nos the cap you need, and you will die. You're giving the enemy player control of a situation you previously had control over. If you nos them down to zero, then you are dead, not them, as your setup is cap-reliant. Additionally, you fail to take into account neutralizers. The best PvPers already use neuts as an alternative to or in combination with nos, if fitting neuts becomes common your cap-relaint setup will suffer FAR more than others.

This change will make cap-reliant setups (pulse dual rep and the like) obselete. They won't be able to obtain the cap they need using nos because nos are unreliable and the enemy players know this. Sure, they don't have to face being nosed to death, rather, they commit nos-suicide or get neuted to death instead.


And again I ask, show me a cap independent setup that relies on neuts.

Cap unstable setups (dual reps and such), have never relied on nos alone to keep going, you'll always need a cap injector and always have. This change is a boost to that kind of setups, if they die to neuts or not is irrelevant, the fact that they did die whennever they found a nos (wich everyone was using in their PVP ships), and now they won't IS a boost.

PhantomVyper
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:31:00 - [802]
 

Originally by: Roninwolfie
Originally by: Titus Lewis
Alright, I'm starting to come around on the Khanid changes. At first, I was a little on the bandwagon of the people that were so upset about all the gunnery skills going to waste and having to train missiles. I think the thing they don't understand is that it's relatively easy to train missiles, and compared to the gunnery skills needed to make lasers semi-effective its a breeze. Also, as long as this isn't the only plan to fix Ammar, we are okay. Lasers still need to be looked at, (cap? actual ship bonuses?) and beams still need to be able to be fit on our ships. Ammar still needs to be made more useful, but I'm starting to see this as at least a step in the right direction.
And the NOS thing? Yeah, long overdue.


hey im with u man , im going to train caldari an get me into a drake lol , nos/passive tanked drake ftw!!!


LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Damn these whiners are a riot!

IPyric
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:35:00 - [803]
 

Originally by: Wataru Amnesia

PS: i thought over the time you devs needed to develope the announced changes active on Singularity. This is a message to the CEO of yours: dont stress your employees with time-frames, and let them read some good Sci-fi Technic novels. Good ideas are born in freaks, but freaks need time to reveal themselve to their CEO as geniuses!!! :-)


NOS Domi is not gone, its now going to be a domi with neuts and it has the cargo bay to use lots of cap injectors.. unfortunatly for poor amarr their ships have very small cargo bays and will not compete with the Neut/Cap booster setups.. but hey this is a boost for amarr right ughohh and now they have to carry missiles with their small cargo bays too

Roninwolfie
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:37:00 - [804]
 

Originally by: PhantomVyper
Originally by: Roninwolfie
Originally by: Titus Lewis
Alright, I'm starting to come around on the Khanid changes. At first, I was a little on the bandwagon of the people that were so upset about all the gunnery skills going to waste and having to train missiles. I think the thing they don't understand is that it's relatively easy to train missiles, and compared to the gunnery skills needed to make lasers semi-effective its a breeze. Also, as long as this isn't the only plan to fix Ammar, we are okay. Lasers still need to be looked at, (cap? actual ship bonuses?) and beams still need to be able to be fit on our ships. Ammar still needs to be made more useful, but I'm starting to see this as at least a step in the right direction.
And the NOS thing? Yeah, long overdue.


hey im with u man , im going to train caldari an get me into a drake lol , nos/passive tanked drake ftw!!!


LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Damn these whiners are a riot!

hey whiners whineing about whiners are even more of a riot lolololol , but hey im going caldari an going to nos/passive tank a drake lol hey a scorp be even better :O

PhantomVyper
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:38:00 - [805]
 

Originally by: Bad Liz
Lol its not a setup that needs tweaking. When you make a ship based around 1 weapon, and then change the whole concept behind it without changing the ship then you're in big trouble. And I agree with the previous poster, CCP needs to learn how to change things in the game without nerfing as their only tool (obvious lack of imagination). NOS always had a clear tradeoff, you sacrifice a hardpoint for it. It would have been far more of a tradeoff if CCP made ships with all turret or launcher possible hardpoints. As usual there is little logic in the CCP decision and obviously far less input from the community. But we all know it was best for drone based ships...like the Pilgrim or the Curse. I spend everyday killing people in these ships and can't wait for the next raven to finally kill me thanks to this nerf...I mean balancing.


LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Next time try and use tactics instead of the fotm ship. try it out on Sisi, the Curse is still more than capable of killing BSs...

PhantomVyper
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:42:00 - [806]
 

Originally by: Roninwolfie
Originally by: PhantomVyper
Originally by: Roninwolfie
Originally by: Titus Lewis
Alright, I'm starting to come around on the Khanid changes. At first, I was a little on the bandwagon of the people that were so upset about all the gunnery skills going to waste and having to train missiles. I think the thing they don't understand is that it's relatively easy to train missiles, and compared to the gunnery skills needed to make lasers semi-effective its a breeze. Also, as long as this isn't the only plan to fix Ammar, we are okay. Lasers still need to be looked at, (cap? actual ship bonuses?) and beams still need to be able to be fit on our ships. Ammar still needs to be made more useful, but I'm starting to see this as at least a step in the right direction.
And the NOS thing? Yeah, long overdue.


hey im with u man , im going to train caldari an get me into a drake lol , nos/passive tanked drake ftw!!!


LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Damn these whiners are a riot!

hey whiners whineing about whiners are even more of a riot lolololol , but hey im going caldari an going to nos/passive tank a drake lol hey a scorp be even better :O


You cannot make a setup like that work on a Drake you moron, less of all in a Scorp! Do you even know anything about this game?!

And I'm not whining about anything, for me CCP has done a great job with this patch, all they need to do is add a neut bonus and a few more PG to the faction ships that only have a nos bonus.

Enech Felbar
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:42:00 - [807]
 

Originally by: Drash Kammatarr
Hi,
I'm sick of nerfing things that need no nerf.
Nos needs no nerf. period.
I bet that at least 90% of the people who shout for "nerf this, nerf that" belong to the following groups:

a. New players
b. Players who lack skills to do better
c. deriving from b, Players who will only play for a short amount of time, because they simply can't get it into their itsy bitsy tiny little brains that players who trained for months (curse/pilgrim) are actually able to destroy their mighty ibis/reaper/whatever 'of doom'.

But CCP always listens to their baby-cries, and with every patch we get something dumbed down, and the gaming experience and a lot of time invested for skilltraining goes down the drain.
And in the end, these nerf-crying Players leave the game for good because they notice that they need another skill for mining mercoxite when they finally arrive in 0.0 space.
I have to ask my self: why do I put so much effort and time into a Game which gets destroyed piece by piece?
Well...maybe I won't do so much longer ;)



Pretty much what he said.

I dont get the 'nerf' mentality at all.
Why not improve other ships instead of making the Curse / Pilgrim useless?
Or give NOS a stacking penalty to avoid overuse on BS's or whatever.(But obviously not for the Curse / Pilgrim, they should be allowed to do the things they are supposed to do properly.)
Or you could even just leave NOS alone!! It's been fine for the last 3 years..

IPyric
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:44:00 - [808]
 

PhantomVyper stop forum spaming i dont think anyone really cares what you have to say, its quite clear your a tool :P

Roninwolfie
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:45:00 - [809]
 

Originally by: PhantomVyper
Originally by: Roninwolfie
Originally by: PhantomVyper
Originally by: Roninwolfie
Originally by: Titus Lewis
Alright, I'm starting to come around on the Khanid changes. At first, I was a little on the bandwagon of the people that were so upset about all the gunnery skills going to waste and having to train missiles. I think the thing they don't understand is that it's relatively easy to train missiles, and compared to the gunnery skills needed to make lasers semi-effective its a breeze. Also, as long as this isn't the only plan to fix Ammar, we are okay. Lasers still need to be looked at, (cap? actual ship bonuses?) and beams still need to be able to be fit on our ships. Ammar still needs to be made more useful, but I'm starting to see this as at least a step in the right direction.
And the NOS thing? Yeah, long overdue.


hey im with u man , im going to train caldari an get me into a drake lol , nos/passive tanked drake ftw!!!


LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Damn these whiners are a riot!

hey whiners whineing about whiners are even more of a riot lolololol , but hey im going caldari an going to nos/passive tank a drake lol hey a scorp be even better :O


You cannot make a setup like that work on a Drake you moron, less of all in a Scorp! Do you even know anything about this game?!

And I'm not whining about anything, for me CCP has done a great job with this patch, all they need to do is add a neut bonus and a few more PG to the faction ships that only have a nos bonus.


lolol wow talk about whineing lol , man i dont know **** about caldari nor to i bloody care lol dude take some time away from the game , get a girlfriend an live alitttle lol , u seem to be too high strung :P

N1fty
Galactic Shipyards Inc
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2007.08.01 11:47:00 - [810]
 

I have read all 27 pages of this thread [bored at work the past couple of days] and while I think this NOS change will fix NOS, its not particularly elegant, its quite hard to understand, and it leaves quite a few ships broken [bloodraider factionals] and in need of fixing [having played on SISI more with my curse, it is sorely lacking in DPS to make other players break their own tanks]

I suggested an idea based on regen % some time ago; reading someones post in the Game Development Forum, lead me to expand/refine his idea and come up with this, please give it a read [OP too] and post some constructive feedback.


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