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Xavier Fate
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2007.07.28 06:56:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Xavier Fate on 28/07/2007 06:57:03
Statement of Intent: Thoroughly map, identify and quantify the properties of human DNA and RNA and the results of combinaitons therein for the purpose of later manipulating those gentic to produce known superior combinations of traits. This process is meant to be a sort of reverse engineering of Jovian gentic methods in an effort to level the playing field between Jovian military forces and those of the Empires.


This is a brain-storming that I am beginning to try and decide how to improve homo-sapien stock through a combination of DNA and RNA isolations along with some possible chemical subsidies. Later on, the program I am devising may expand to include psychological conditioning, but for now it's just lab work and analysis.

Current Purpose:
Identify laboratory analysis, standards and sampling requirements for genetic gathering.

Identify known 'best practices' for sampling and testing of genetic maps, acquire known combination results for reference.

Establish specific measurable guidelines for project success

Project Goal:
Identify and enrich the human gene-pool with modified genemaps containing known beneficial traits for a specific application (in this case piloting traits - though specific traits not yet selected).

Introduction:

Sample basis:
1.) Equal sized blood samples will be collected from pilots only in identical containers, maintained in identical conditions.

2.) Pilot samples will be segregated by race and gender and combat specialties.

3.) Pilot samples of a given race, gender, combat group will be compared with samples from the same grouping only initially to establish normal baselines compared to known pilot characteristics.

4.) Samples will not be collected from unactivated clones or booster abusers (either past or present). Also, samples will not be collected from anything but frozen corpses (the ejection of a corpse into space freezes a significant portion of marrow and blood in the corpse which can be extracted accurately and inexpensively).

5.) Only red blood samples will be used initially (though other tissue samples may be collected for later work).

Closing Argument:
Jovians brought two major advantages to bear when they became a hostile force. The first was technology, the second was genetically advanced pilots specifically designed for their duties.

By adopting to our enemy's advatages, we only empower ourselves against them. Ergo, I pursue this research in that light and am hopeful of results, though may be quite some time in coming, as the research is only in initial planning and proofing phases now.

Anyone who is scientifically aligned should feel free to post recommended changes ro suggestions to the research plan. This is a brainstorming and a work in progress.

It is also worth noting that I have elected to look into this both out of long term curiosity and due to an apparent need. Though I currently do this on my own - with other matters in their hands, my corporation and alliance are rather busy at the moment.

Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2007.07.28 07:26:00 - [2]
 

I have a feeling you will soon become the proud owner of a one way interbus ticket out of the Gallente Federation. They don't take kindly to innovative genetics research and the prospects of advancing the human race into superior beings well beyond the boundaries of their imagination.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2007.07.28 07:40:00 - [3]
 

Mr. Foiritain probably has the right of it. By the way, Mr. Fate, since when are the Jovians hostile? Perhaps there's some item in the news I'm missing? There are Directorate holdings in Caldari space, and I don't recall being shot at while attempting to dock.

... Or are you disturbed by the fact that the Jovians have seen fit to trade with the Caldari rather than the Gallente?

In general, the Jovians seem simply to prefer to be left alone, and are disallowing jumpgate access for precisely that reason. We, collectively, can relate. A data base search fails to turn up any bit of recent news on the subject-- am I missing something? I confess I'm mystified.

Jeoff Valdar
Posted - 2007.07.28 08:58:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Jeoff Valdar on 28/07/2007 09:13:09
Greetings Master Fate,

I have read your declaration of intentions and feel compelled to respond.

Originally by: Xavier Fate
Edited by: Xavier Fate on 28/07/2007 06:57:03
Statement of Intent: Thoroughly map, identify and quantify the properties of human DNA and RNA and the results of combinaitons therein for the purpose of later manipulating those gentic to produce known superior combinations of traits. This process is meant to be a sort of reverse engineering of Jovian gentic methods in an effort to level the playing field between Jovian military forces and those of the Empires.


We all know that the human DNA sequences are freely available from various medical databases and the RNA sequences derived from said DNA via translation processes are similar in sequence. Why is there a need to look into the genetic sequence of man when we already know what they are? Why reinvent the wheel?

Quote:

This is a brain-storming that I am beginning to try and decide how to improve homo-sapien stock through a combination of DNA and RNA isolations along with some possible chemical subsidies. Later on, the program I am devising may expand to include psychological conditioning, but for now it's just lab work and analysis.


Traits are not derived from combining DNA and RNA stocks. I would like to refer you back to Federation primary education holograms that DNA is the template for the production of RNA which can then exist in various natural forms, mRNAs, tRNAs, etc. and articial forms iRNAs. RNA is then used for protein production and thus the expression of various genes.

The human genome is definite and the differences that we see in each individual (both male and female) is due to the different levels of expression of various genes in the human genome (made up of 23 chromosomes).

Quote:

Current Purpose:
Identify laboratory analysis, standards and sampling requirements for genetic gathering.

Identify known 'best practices' for sampling and testing of genetic maps, acquire known combination results for reference.

Establish specific measurable guidelines for project success

Project Goal:
Identify and enrich the human gene-pool with modified genemaps containing known beneficial traits for a specific application (in this case piloting traits - though specific traits not yet selected).

Introduction:

Sample basis:
1.) Equal sized blood samples will be collected from pilots only in identical containers, maintained in identical conditions.


2.) Pilot samples will be segregated by race and gender and combat specialties.

3.) Pilot samples of a given race, gender, combat group will be compared with samples from the same grouping only initially to establish normal baselines compared to known pilot characteristics.

4.) Samples will not be collected from unactivated clones or booster abusers (either past or present). Also, samples will not be collected from anything but frozen corpses (the ejection of a corpse into space freezes a significant portion of marrow and blood in the corpse which can be extracted accurately and inexpensively).

5.) Only red blood samples will be used initially (though other tissue samples may be collected for later work). .


From your choice to initially use red blood samples, we can tell that perhaps your knowledge of DNA extraction methods and the cells that have said DNA in them is somewhat limited.

Red blood cells do not have DNA. Red blood cells or heamoglobins in lay man terms are 4 chains of protein, 2 alpha-chains and 2 beta-chains with iron (the red coloring) making up the basic red cell.

Instead of red blood cells, I would suggest the use of lymph, bone marrow samples and micro-biopsies of different portions of the brain.

To segregate samples according to race, gender and combat group, would it not place bias on the protocols and experiments you design?
Would it not be more objective to work on a pool of samples with no marking identification (all details kept in conf

Jeoff Valdar
Posted - 2007.07.28 08:59:00 - [5]
 


Quote:

Closing Argument:
Jovians brought two major advantages to bear when they became a hostile force. The first was technology, the second was genetically advanced pilots specifically designed for their duties.

By adopting to our enemy's advatages, we only empower ourselves against them. Ergo, I pursue this research in that light and am hopeful of results, though may be quite some time in coming, as the research is only in initial planning and proofing phases now.

Anyone who is scientifically aligned should feel free to post recommended changes ro suggestions to the research plan. This is a brainstorming and a work in progress.

It is also worth noting that I have elected to look into this both out of long term curiosity and due to an apparent need. Though I currently do this on my own - with other matters in their hands, my corporation and alliance are rather busy at the moment.


Was there a declaration of hostilities between the Jovians and the Federation? You are a Gallente and part of a corp and alliance that is held in deep respect by the Federation including myself and my corp. And as such any declaration of hostilities against any party is going to be taken up by other members of the Federation as a policy that we should maybe worry?

My knowledge of past events is somewhat sketchy, but I do believe the Jovians closed their gates to prevent encroachment of the Amarr into their space. The Jovians had not conduct any hostile acts against the Federation or Minmatar, and they shared their technology freely with the Caladari before their exodus. Infact, the Jovians assisted our efforts in providing military support to the Minmatar by running through Amarr blockades.



As a man of science, I would like to invite you to my office for perhaps a chat on your interest. The facts are somewhat astray but I do belief there is perhaps some merit to your ideas and we can maybe use them if applied to true science. I have a team of scientists that work closely with me investigating the various pathogens that continue to plague mankind, and the exotic emerging diseases we find on new uninhabited planets.

Your’s sincerely

Commodore Jeoff Valdar
Executive Officer of the Scrutari
Cyrene Initiative

Revan Neferis
Amarr
Bloodveil
BLOOD EMPIRE
Posted - 2007.07.28 10:13:00 - [6]
 

The Eugenics department at the Science Institute sponsored by Bloodveil could do a lot for you.


Darina Rea
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
Posted - 2007.07.28 11:20:00 - [7]
 

I think that Nola might be interested in this project.

Contact her either by EvE-mail or our public channel NeuroGEN. I will make sure to inform her of your interests.

Xavier Fate
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2007.07.28 13:08:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Jeoff Valdar
Edited by: Jeoff Valdar on 28/07/2007 09:13:09
Instead of red blood cells, I would suggest the use of lymph, bone marrow samples and micro-biopsies of different portions of the brain.



Bone marrow or tissue samples, true.


Quote:
We all know that the human DNA sequences are freely available from various medical databases and the RNA sequences derived from said DNA via translation processes are similar in sequence. Why is there a need to look into the genetic sequence of man when we already know what they are? Why reinvent the wheel?



Quote:
Traits are not derived from combining DNA and RNA stocks.


The point isn't to find the sequences, but identify exactly what they are doing in the combinations they occur in. In that effort, we also look to the RNA strands to further asses what traits the DNA combinaitons brought about.

Initial work will be centered ont his point. While the Empires have certainly mapped the genomes, they have not attempted in any way to actually discern any great deal of how the map works. At least none that I am aware of - they only reproduce known combinations.

Quote:
To segregate samples according to race, gender and combat group, would it not place bias on the protocols and experiments you design?


Again, this is to help identify combinations and their resultant effoects later in life.
Second, I certainly don't view any of this as unethical. I think to dismiss the Jovians as a threat would be foolhardy. The idea that if we sit on our thumbs then they won't return - that seems silly to me. We have time to prepare. Why not use it?

Hooch Flux
Caldari
Posted - 2007.07.28 13:12:00 - [9]
 

While pure research may prove beneficial on an academic level, we should be very wary of practical applications. The Jove have suffered through there use of genetic engineering, "The Jove Disease" has left them with a horible legacy. We should be careful not to put ourselves into a similar situation.

Xavier Fate
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2007.07.28 13:29:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Hooch Flux
While pure research may prove beneficial on an academic level, we should be very wary of practical applications. The Jove have suffered through there use of genetic engineering, "The Jove Disease" has left them with a horible legacy. We should be careful not to put ourselves into a similar situation.


And I certainly concur with that, but mistakes or flaws in their process - which was taken to an extreme of genetic alteration and psychological modification - could perhaps be avoided if we truly understood how the process worked.

*snip* OOC -Rauth

Irias Salo
Caldari
The Star Wolves
Aunni Ti Tsuun Consortium
Posted - 2007.07.28 13:44:00 - [11]
 

Last I checked the Jovians only become a hostile threat when threatened. As for leveling the playing field, the State already has an extensive eugenics program, and while not as advanced as the Jovians is certianly second only to theirs.

Wanoah
Minmatar
Msana Foundation
Posted - 2007.07.28 13:53:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Hooch Flux
While pure research may prove beneficial on an academic level, we should be very wary of practical applications. The Jove have suffered through there use of genetic engineering, "The Jove Disease" has left them with a horible legacy. We should be careful not to put ourselves into a similar situation.


Collectively, we as a species need to learn from their mistakes. The problem is that engaging with the Jovians isn't the easiest thing to do. They gave us the capsule technology for reasons that aren't clear to me, but beyond that, it seems that our relations with them have tended to be a little one-sided.

Of course, the capsule tech has been a pretty major thing, as everybody with the ability to post here is bound to agree. For many of us, becoming a pilot has opened our eyes to the possibilities this technology offers the human race as a whole. We might stop short of the post-human ideologies of the Star Fraction, but there is the tantalising prospect of being masters of our own evolution nonetheless.

When we become pilots, we have already been through an artificial selection process. The whole programme of training pod pilots is effectively a kind of eugenics programme. All of the major empires are engaging in selecting the best examples their populations have to offer and setting them apart from mainstream society. This is incredibly important and will have far-reaching consequences for humanity. What will our children be capable of?

It's important, too, to look beyond simple biology and eugenics. The first time we connect our minds to the Pod OS, we interface with a machine that can make us immensely powerful, and, with the appropriate support, we find ourselves bordering on immortality. This is the other half of the equation. While I applaud the efforts to better humanity through genetic research, we shouldn't neglect the benefits of cybernetics as well.

Hooch Flux
Caldari
Posted - 2007.07.28 14:10:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Hooch Flux on 28/07/2007 14:27:05
I believe that Evolution and Natural Selection will do the job that we are talking about here. To forcefully try to alter/advance our genetics will open a can of worms we may not survive, no matter how much research we do, mistakes will occur! It is Human nature to be flawed and that will never change.

Casserina Leshrac
Amarr
Ebon Seraph
The Dominion Empire
Posted - 2007.07.28 15:41:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Hooch Flux
Edited by: Hooch Flux on 28/07/2007 14:27:05
I believe that Evolution and Natural Selection will do the job that we are talking about here. To forcefully try to alter/advance our genetics will open a can of worms we may not survive, no matter how much research we do, mistakes will occur! It is Human nature to be flawed and that will never change.



If that is the case then why did the Caldari State make a deal with the Jove to jump start pod and cloning technology?

It was with these breakthroughs that allowed the State to solidify its place in the cluster.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2007.07.28 16:10:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Irias Salo
Last I checked the Jovians only become a hostile threat when threatened. As for leveling the playing field, the State already has an extensive eugenics program, and while not as advanced as the Jovians is certianly second only to theirs.


Actually, I suspect that this may be the very reason Mr. Fate is worried. If the Caldari State is willing to pursue technologies the Federation is not, the State will then reap the benefits of those technologies.

The Jovians, in this case, would appear to be a straw man-- a distraction from the real issue. After all, they've got, at minimum, multiple hundreds of years of lead on any of us in genetic manipulation. Mr. Fate will not be equalling them any time this century, or, most likely, any other, and, considering their apparently preferred tactics, if the Directorate deems his project any sort of threat, and perhaps even if it does not, Mr. Fate will have at least three Jovian agents on his staff by the time he's done hiring. If the Directorate wants to kill the project, it'll die. We must assume that, as a reasonably informed person, Mr. Fate is aware of this. Thus, the Jovians are a target I can't imagine a person like Mr. Fate shooting for.

So, what other group that the Federation is at odds with practices biological engineering ...?

Hooch Flux
Caldari
Posted - 2007.07.28 16:21:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Hooch Flux on 28/07/2007 16:25:42
Originally by: Casserina Leshrac
If that is the case then why did the Caldari State make a deal with the Jove to jump start pod and cloning technology?

It was with these breakthroughs that allowed the State to solidify its place in the cluster.


I don't know, why don't you ask the Caldari State? I am "A" Caldari! Not "The" Caldari State!

Akusa Nihil
Frozen Refuge
Posted - 2007.07.28 16:58:00 - [17]
 

While I can appreciate your efforts at improving your race genetically, what have the Jovians done to you to warrant this attitude of hostility?

They merely wish to be left alone to their own devices, why must the rest of the cluster insist on seeing them as enemies to be countered and subjugated? Maybe if we respected these goals, an amicable peace could exist between them and the rest of the cluster's population, rather than everyone fearing an invasion that you probably couldn't stop anyways.

Nola Doyle
NeuroGEN
Posted - 2007.07.28 17:09:00 - [18]
 

The Federation is crippling itself significantly with the prohibitive laws and ethical considerations that render further development into this field inert. Although my initial research was halted by external factors, the facilities in NeuroGEN have been actively pursuing gene manipulation on clone husks. The net result is that when able, the cloned body is not just a replication of its host, but enhanced with the users requested specifications.

The advantage of working with clones is that the research has no ethical or judicial boundaries, and thus science prevails.

While I see promise in pursuing this study, the scope and scale of this project are rather ambiguous. What attributes do you seek to breed in your control group? Are you taking into consideration environmental factors in early developmental stages? What is the size of your test group? What is your project duration?

Furthermore, I must also question the logic gap between the intent and the desired result. If successful, and given your efforts to breed superior combat pilots to match the Jove, the assumption is that these individuals will level the playing field. However, at present, the combat capabilities of Jove pilots are largely untested and as such any comparisons would be flawed.

Technology is the real barrier, and a quantifiable element in contrasting combat capability. Utilizing selective development of higher reasoning and brain function, in addition to a controlled environment and education would serve a much greater potential in overcoming the barriers in combat capabilities with the enhancement of existing technology.

Nevetheless, I eagerly await to any developments in your project and encourage interest this field of study amongst my peers.

Irias Salo
Caldari
The Star Wolves
Aunni Ti Tsuun Consortium
Posted - 2007.07.28 17:17:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Actually, I suspect that this may be the very reason Mr. Fate is worried. If the Caldari State is willing to pursue technologies the Federation is not, the State will then reap the benefits of those technologies.

The Jovians, in this case, would appear to be a straw man-- a distraction from the real issue. After all, they've got, at minimum, multiple hundreds of years of lead on any of us in genetic manipulation. Mr. Fate will not be equalling them any time this century, or, most likely, any other, and, considering their apparently preferred tactics, if the Directorate deems his project any sort of threat, and perhaps even if it does not, Mr. Fate will have at least three Jovian agents on his staff by the time he's done hiring. If the Directorate wants to kill the project, it'll die. We must assume that, as a reasonably informed person, Mr. Fate is aware of this. Thus, the Jovians are a target I can't imagine a person like Mr. Fate shooting for.

So, what other group that the Federation is at odds with practices biological engineering ...?


Sansha for sure, but I don't see Sansha being much of a threat to the Federation at the moment, then there are threats on the bordor of Federation space, the Amarr Empire, the State and of course the well known booster suppliers.

The Amarr Empire can be easily discounted.

As for the State willing to pursue technologies the Federation would not, well we all know how advanced the State is, so it'd matter little if a war would start at this present time. In the future maybe.

Eric Lupanasia
Posted - 2007.07.28 21:53:00 - [20]
 

From the desk of Eric Lupanasia:

This topic is bantered about time and time again by those who believe that Humankind is somehow "lacking", and that only tinkering with the very blueprint of our being can "improve" us. And yet there are recurring questions that seldom, if ever, are even debated, let alone satisfactorily answered.

- Who chooses what the "goal" will be? To "improve" the species, it is necessary to identify a particular shortcoming to be removed, or a strength to be amplified, and what the end result will be. Who will make that decision? Those performing the "improvements"? Those funding the endeavor? Those subject to it? A scientific oversight group or board? The government? Moral or religious leaders? Or "the people" as a whole? And if the population is to be given the ultimate choice, how will their collective will be gathered and recorded?

Here is the issue with this question: All of these groups are people themselves, fallible, imperfect and prone towards biases and personal wishes. Changing two words on an opinion poll on the latest flavor of Quafe can skew results beyond belief; how could one possibly phrase questions on the very path of Humanity without injecting one's own beliefs? Who indeed is so impartial and omniscient that they can be given such a monumental choice?

- Who will be chosen first? If the species is to be "improved", then there must be a "first batch", the group who will lead the way and be the study group to assess the efficacy of this program. Who will it be? Will it be the "best of the best", those with already-excellent traits which could be further improved upon? Will it be the "dregs", those lacking in these traits, whom could be made to better benefit society? Or will it simply be average people, from whom the greatest variety of results can be gained?

Another issue- no matter whom you choose, there are risks. One could turn a genius into a gibbering idiot, or grant a dimwitted criminal enough capacity to become a true danger. Utilizing "Mr. and Mrs. Average" dilutes scientific precision and makes refining the program problematic.

We also run into the problem of segregation. Certainly you know the status of we pod pilots amongst the more "ordinary" people- many already see us as an entirely separate entity, almost alien in ways, simply because of a small number of cybernetic implants and the ability to use one particular type of technology. Should we begin creating true castes in the Human species, we will open unbridgable gaps, with more "them" than "us" no matter which side you look at it from. If you truly see the Jove as the greatest threat to us, is that sort of division wise?

Were you to ask a Caldari how he would improve his life, he might most often say "Greater service to the State." An Amarrian, "Greater service to God." A Gallentean, "Greater freedom of thought." A Matari, "Greater freedom of action." Yet it is up to us to decide how to pursue those things, how to improve ourselves so that we might gain those improvements. It should NOT be left to one person with a syringe and his own overreaching plans.

The Jovians mastered this technique beyond anything we currently understand. Look what became of them. Were I to see an experienced guide disappear into a quicksand bog right in front of me, I certainly wouldn't copy his steps in the belief that I could somehow do better.

Xavier Fate
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2007.07.28 22:46:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Xavier Fate on 28/07/2007 22:46:42
Originally by: Eric Lupanasia
From the desk of Eric Lupanasia:
- Who chooses what the "goal" will be? To "improve" the species, it is necessary to identify a particular shortcoming to be removed, or a strength to be amplified, and what the end result will be. Who will make that decision? Those performing the "improvements"? Those funding the endeavor? Those subject to it? A scientific oversight group or board? The government? Moral or religious leaders? Or "the people" as a whole? And if the population is to be given the ultimate choice, how will their collective will be gathered and recorded?



This is a simple one to answer. Specific ideal combat related traits will be singled out in initial work. Which specific ones have not yet been identified, but once any project begins in earnest, trait selection and prioritization will be one of the first priorities.

Quote:
- Who will be chosen first? If the species is to be "improved", then there must be a "first batch", the group who will lead the way and be the study group to assess the efficacy of this program. Who will it be? Will it be the "best of the best", those with already-excellent traits which could be further improved upon? Will it be the "dregs", those lacking in these traits, whom could be made to better benefit society? Or will it simply be average people, from whom the greatest variety of results can be gained?



The specific avenues for completion have not yet been thoroughly analyzed. One avenue is to select outstanding individuals and essentially 'breed in' a trait form their ranks. Other possibilities exist, however, I am still looking into those other processes for whether or not any greater amount of precision can be attained.

Quote:
Were you to ask a Caldari how he would improve his life, he might most often say "Greater service to the State." An Amarrian, "Greater service to God." A Gallentean, "Greater freedom of thought." A Matari, "Greater freedom of action." Yet it is up to us to decide how to pursue those things, how to improve ourselves so that we might gain those improvements. It should NOT be left to one person with a syringe and his own overreaching plans.


These 'improvements' are completely abstract in nature and have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. We are talking about improvements like faster reaction times, greater ability to multi-task, greater innate spatial awareness. Lower (or perhaps higher) responses of adrenaline in stressful situations. Biological factors in performance are all that this discussion is about.

Depending on the success of the pilot program, my vision would be to extend it out to crew members as well.

Eric Lupanasia
Posted - 2007.07.29 15:21:00 - [22]
 

From the desk of Eric Lupanasia:

Originally by: Xavier Fate
Originally by: Eric Lupanasia
Were you to ask a Caldari how he would improve his life, he might most often say "Greater service to the State." An Amarrian, "Greater service to God." A Gallentean, "Greater freedom of thought." A Matari, "Greater freedom of action." Yet it is up to us to decide how to pursue those things, how to improve ourselves so that we might gain those improvements. It should NOT be left to one person with a syringe and his own overreaching plans.

These 'improvements' are completely abstract in nature and have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. We are talking about improvements like faster reaction times, greater ability to multi-task, greater innate spatial awareness. Lower (or perhaps higher) responses of adrenaline in stressful situations. Biological factors in performance are all that this discussion is about.

Perhaps I did wax a bit philosophical on that given point. But I am still left to wonder if the costs are in fact justified. In my mind, the logical end of such a program of "improvements" is the creation of a warrior caste- a strain of Humans whose entire existance is focused upon space-based warfare. What are we to do with these warriors if there is no war for them to fight? Turn them on each other to handle our petty differences? Where does one keep the hounds when there is no prey for them to chase?

You seek to alter the essence of Humanity to combat an enemy that may not in fact be an enemy. We have had no major contact with the Jovian Directorate since the Amarrian attack at Atioth, which was at its essence a Jovian defense of its space. They present all aspects of a civilization which only seeks to be left alone to do as it wishes. Why alter what it is we are, and risk becoming as damaged as the "foe" you seek to defeat, to win a war which may not even be necessary?

I have fewer issues with your desire to improve combat readiness, Mr. Fate, than with the manner which you wish to pursue. If you believe that we are not using the technology available to us to its greatest potiential, then I might suggest you put effort into altering the technology to better suit us- not altering us to better suit the technology. Leave the growth of the Human species in the hands of nature... it's gotten us this far, hasn't it?

Xavier Fate
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2007.07.29 15:37:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Xavier Fate on 29/07/2007 15:38:06
Originally by: Eric Lupanasia
From the desk of Eric Lupanasia:

Originally by: Xavier Fate
Originally by: Eric Lupanasia
Were you to ask a Caldari how he would improve his life, he might most often say "Greater service to the State." An Amarrian, "Greater service to God." A Gallentean, "Greater freedom of thought." A Matari, "Greater freedom of action." Yet it is up to us to decide how to pursue those things, how to improve ourselves so that we might gain those improvements. It should NOT be left to one person with a syringe and his own overreaching plans.

These 'improvements' are completely abstract in nature and have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. We are talking about improvements like faster reaction times, greater ability to multi-task, greater innate spatial awareness. Lower (or perhaps higher) responses of adrenaline in stressful situations. Biological factors in performance are all that this discussion is about.

Perhaps I did wax a bit philosophical on that given point. But I am still left to wonder if the costs are in fact justified. In my mind, the logical end of such a program of "improvements" is the creation of a warrior caste- a strain of Humans whose entire existance is focused upon space-based warfare. What are we to do with these warriors if there is no war for them to fight? Turn them on each other to handle our petty differences? Where does one keep the hounds when there is no prey for them to chase?



In the entire history of man, there had never been peace. I do not forsee this being an issue anytime in even the remote future.

Quote:

You seek to alter the essence of Humanity to combat an enemy that may not in fact be an enemy. We have had no major contact with the Jovian Directorate since the Amarrian attack at Atioth, which was at its essence a Jovian defense of its space. They present all aspects of a civilization which only seeks to be left alone to do as it wishes. Why alter what it is we are, and risk becoming as damaged as the "foe" you seek to defeat, to win a war which may not even be necessary?



Anytime an enemy exists, built on a military society, with superior weapons and personnel, they are a threat. To ignore them is folly. To fail to learn from the advancements and failures they made if foolhardy.

Quote:

I have fewer issues with your desire to improve combat readiness, Mr. Fate, than with the manner which you wish to pursue. If you believe that we are not using the technology available to us to its greatest potiential, then I might suggest you put effort into altering the technology to better suit us- not altering us to better suit the technology.


Why not both?

Quote:
Leave the growth of the Human species in the hands of nature... it's gotten us this far, hasn't it?


Nature has left us petty and squabbling. I'd hardly call that an achievement. We have the power to change ourselves, why not start trying to use it?

Hooch Flux
Caldari
Posted - 2007.07.29 17:16:00 - [24]
 

I am just curious about one thing Mr. Fate, why do you view the Jove as a threat? If the Jove wanted to destroy us or had any intention of subjugating us, they would have done it. They have never, as far as i'm aware, displayed any hostility to us. Vak'atioth was a display of Amarr arogance and they got what they deserved.

Laskin Veldstar
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.07.30 03:52:00 - [25]
 

Although I do not view the Jove specifically as a threat, and I do show quite a deal of respect for their technologies as they currently and most likely will always prove to show ours are quite humble, I am interested. I do fear it is only a matter of time before an incident occurs that would draw any rogue Jovian's, as it has in the past, to relay any of their technology to certain parties that would be of opposition to the Federation. I cannot help but remember the poor rogue who suffered terribly from the Jove Disease so bad that it drove him to break their very races wishes at keeping within arms length of the Empire Space.

I of course would be interested in assisting any way possible to further the goal of understanding how it works. Putting our findings into motion however is something I cannot condone. At least not until it is better understood. At that note I have complete confidence in Xavier Fates ability to work this project in a controlled manner.

I would be interested in the funding of this project so long as the public is aware that I fund only the study of the cause and not the finished product being put into action. Mr. Fate, you can look me up in the Acheron Federation database, my comms are located there.

Sincerely,

Xavier Fate
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2007.07.30 05:56:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Xavier Fate on 30/07/2007 06:00:18
Originally by: Hooch Flux
I am just curious about one thing Mr. Fate, why do you view the Jove as a threat? If the Jove wanted to destroy us or had any intention of subjugating us, they would have done it. They have never, as far as i'm aware, displayed any hostility to us. Vak'atioth was a display of Amarr arogance and they got what they deserved.


Originally by: Xavier Fate

Anytime an enemy exists, built on a military society, with superior weapons and personnel, they are a threat. To ignore them is folly. To fail to learn from the advancements and failures they made if foolhardy.



And, Laskin, thank you for the vote of confidence.

In all reality initial procurement of donor genes for review has begun and will be a long process. When an update is available on real progress, it will become available.

As far as criteria for selection, observed extraordinarily superior or inferior combat prowess or has, at least for the time being, been the primary criteria for selection. This is for reference position.

Also, the only bloodline currently in review is that of Gallente pilots who have defected to rogue elements. This was decided mostly for ease of procurement at this current time.

Nachshon
Caldari
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2007.07.30 06:34:00 - [27]
 

It never hurts to have a contingency plan.

If you need a Caldari genetic sample, I will happily provide mine.

Nero Scuro
Jejaikaro Corporation
Posted - 2007.07.30 08:41:00 - [28]
 

Phew, you had me worried that The State would have another competitor in the eugenics race. Given your woeful lack of knowledge concerning the human genome I don't think we have much to worry about though.

Please, continue trying to extract DNA from red blood cells, this should prove amusing.

Hooch Flux
Caldari
Posted - 2007.07.30 11:51:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Hooch Flux on 30/07/2007 12:24:10
Originally by: Xavier Fate
Edited by: Xavier Fate on 30/07/2007 06:00:18
Originally by: Hooch Flux
I am just curious about one thing Mr. Fate, why do you view the Jove as a threat? If the Jove wanted to destroy us or had any intention of subjugating us, they would have done it. They have never, as far as i'm aware, displayed any hostility to us. Vak'atioth was a display of Amarr arogance and they got what they deserved.


Originally by: Xavier Fate

Anytime an enemy exists, built on a military society, with superior weapons and personnel, they are a threat. To ignore them is folly. To fail to learn from the advancements and failures they made if foolhardy.



Perhaps I should elaborate the question, why do you view the Jove as an enemy? You start the sentance by stating the Jove are an enemy, what do you base this on?

Rakiro
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.07.30 12:15:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Rakiro on 30/07/2007 12:17:12
My history on the subject is a little rusty, but this sounds rather similar to Sansha Kuvakei's dream... Creating people more suited for piloting through genetic modification.

As much as I like the idea of kick-starting the next evolutionary phase, history has taught us (twice I may add) that genetic modification is very powerful yet immensely dangerous technology. Done correctly you can create ships with hyper-fast organic brains and nerveous systems, and the pilots to fly them.

Done incorrectly, and you create at best an army of zombie-like drones and at worst inflict your entire civilization with a crippling genetic disease. In all honesty I think genetic modification, powerful as it may be, is a technology best kept under strict control and done for the right reasons.

And for clarity, warfare is most definately not the right reason.


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