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blankseplocked There is NO reason frigates should not be a threat to battleships!
 
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Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2004.01.29 08:31:00 - [31]
 

Quote:
frig's cant be a threat not with how the game is right now... BS locking you down in 2sec or under and now the agility nerf in skills... its great ya, the thing is that it hurts even the frig's as they req speed and agility etc... so nerfing a skill like that hurts even the small guys...

a BS should never be able to lock a frig in 2sec it should be at least 5sec IMORolling Eyes


Any battleship setup to lock onto a frigate in 2 seconds is extremely thin skinned. Or possibly using a frigate partner to better advantage Wink

DREAMWORKS
Gallente
Gangbang-Gang
GUARDS 0F AVALON
Posted - 2004.01.29 08:40:00 - [32]
 

Quote:
A frigate should simply not just be classed as the next ship for a new player.

Only the Kestrel, and recently the Rifter have just fallen out of this category and are now considered as viable ships to fight with in PvP.

Some EW frigates are now also being introduced into PvP. Griffin and Vigil for example. I guess now everyone has hit the top of the food chain (i.e. got a battleship) they are starting to explore the vast array of frigates.

Veteran Eve players are starting to use frigates, but still nothing more than for a bit of fun. When it comes to a big battle (i.e FE vs. FA). Out comes the Scorpion, or woteva.

People are aso starting to realize wot frigates can do. A LOT of people I have fought recently have equipment such has heavy drones, smartbombs, F.O.F's, and MWD's. All of these modules that counter anything a frigate can do.

Its tough for frigate pilots.


A frigate should never ever be able to stand up against a battleship in a 1 versus 1, not even in a 3 against 1 for the simple reason that the battleship has the technology to be effective in battle.

The fact that people get out the scorpion is because the battleship is highly effective in battle due to its ammount of hp and slots, imagine you having 50-60mil on implants in your head... I wouldn't risk myself even once in a large battle with lag and alot of conflicts that are simply caused by CCP not supporting large battles yet.

People go out in a ship that has 10-20k hp to protect their sorry arses, to surfive 5 shots... And this is easy to justify for the price they pay.

Mining you a battleship alone is an efford of 4 weeks mining, that is 1 month looking at rocks.
Its something else than mine 1 day, make 350k and buy yourself a kestrel from it.

The skills take less time to train for a frigate (4 weeks, i now have an alt fully trained to mwd, use cruise missles and fly both kestrel and minmatar ships).

Sure frigates should do some damage in combat, in _groups_ that is. You must see a frigate as a wasp, one single one is anoying and fast killed but a swarm of wasps can be deadly.

Thing is: CCP did everything to make frigates attractive, its not CCP that fly them... Its the people in charge who say: Get a battleship! You do some serious damage then!

A frigate can do much more than be blown up by smartbombs, keep distance...

Drones? Race away and attack them from safe range with cruise missles

fof's? defenders
mwd? erhmmmm mwd on frigate is LOADS faster

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.01.29 09:13:00 - [33]
 

Quote:
My thoughts,

I'm in a corp where I have had first hand experience of EVE-veterans trying their hand at some PvP for the first time. Their first kill (using a frigate) after a year of Eve.

What is their response:

"Most bloody fun i've had in ages"

That is fact. Not a single person has said, "Hmm this isnt for me, i'd much rather mine a rock for $13 p/m."

IF frigates DID pose a threat to 'Mr.8 Months Mining 4 BS" then there would probably be a whole host of changes to the way corporations evolved. PvP would come down to skill, the right fleet, and controling that fleet. It would't just be "Oh I've got the biggest ship I should be safe now". It'd be "Right, I've got the biggest ship, I can be a useful asset in the fleet". And when building a fleet to attack it wouldn't be "Yer, just looking for BS pilots", it'd be "Right need 4 or 5 BS's, 10 cruisers, 20 frigates....".

You get one I'm saying? PvP is FUN! Whether pirating or bounty hunting, it pumps the blood and gives adrenaline. This can't be denied. We should be promoting anything that encourages PvP, rather than whining that we might loose our ship that we took so f*ing long to save up for.

As someones sig on this forum says: You are not your ship.

I beg of anyone who hasnt tried some proper PvP jus to give it ago.


I agree with alot of this. Frigates need to be used en masse. BS v frigate should be like a bear raiding a bee's nest - yeah, it'll get some honey, but after awhile the bear is gonna get stung to death.

I've done 90% of my PvP in a frigate, and basically, with the right tactics and a little luck a few well kitted frigates can take out a BS. I know, I've done it and so has s0cks. You do need more tactical brains to fly frigate attacks, but the fun is in the learning Very Happy

My answer therefore is, frigates have always been a threat to BS, but its not down to the equipment so much as the pilot flying the ships.

And it is damn good fun.

s0cks
The Scope
Posted - 2004.01.29 09:20:00 - [34]
 

Just want to set a few things straight:

- no-one is saying 1v1 between a frigate and a battleship should be even
- what we are trying to say is that 4 or 5 frigates should be a threat

As it is... its very hard. And DO NOT say it isn't. I think i'd F*KING know OK. I have been a part of a frigate ONLY PvP corp for at least 6 - 8 months. As we see it, drones make any ship invincible to frigate attack. THAT is really the main reason frigates are not a threat. Other reasons are low targetting range, having to have 3 frigates to jam 1 battleship, etc....

Find a BS with its drones in, jam him, then the BS pilot can start sh*tting his pants. How often does this happen - once in a blu moon.

- We are also trying to promote a broad range of ships in fleet battles.

Giving the frigate a higher threat level will undoubtly help this happen.

Tal'aaq
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.01.29 09:23:00 - [35]
 

Think about it. 5 kestrel frigates outfitted with cruise missiles will down a battleship fast. 20 launchers firing cruises that do 200-360 damage every 10 seconds is a lot of firepower. A battleship is more or less dead in 2 salvos. He is probably dead before he gets his first lock.

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.01.29 09:30:00 - [36]
 

The problem is with BS owners. Ok, BS are expensive and alot of people have spent alot of time mining or whatever to get one - but that was your choice to do it. You also do not have a divine right to be invincible just by virtue of the fact that you now fly a BS.


Dragothmar
Southern Cross Monopoly
Flying Dangerous
Posted - 2004.01.29 09:59:00 - [37]
 

Hey Miso, you gonna pay me back 80 mill of the 90 mill I paid for my battleship if this gets patched in? Thought not.
What you're telling me is that (if this does go through in a patch anytime soon) maybe 2-3 frigates can ambush me on my way back from a deep space mining operation with only 1-2 guns on, the rest miner 2's, no eccm and mining drones, and take me out? hell, I'll buy myself a frigate if it comes to thatLaughing
A BS is about FLEXIBILITY, you can mount whatever you like on one, that's the whole point! Not everyone charges around in a bs bristling with guns, and why should they? The basic point of a bs is you can mount what you like and still retain a level of defence, ever tried mining a 0.2 in a frigate? There should be a role for frigates, yes, and right now it's limited, but let's wait and see what CCP's tech II update brings to the frigate side of things...

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.01.29 10:04:00 - [38]
 

Quote:
Hey Miso, you gonna pay me back 80 mill of the 90 mill I paid for my battleship if this gets patched in? Thought not.
What you're telling me is that (if this does go through in a patch anytime soon) maybe 2-3 frigates can ambush me on my way back from a deep space mining operation with only 1-2 guns on, the rest miner 2's, no eccm and mining drones, and take me out? hell, I'll buy myself a frigate if it comes to thatLaughing
A BS is about FLEXIBILITY, you can mount whatever you like on one, that's the whole point! Not everyone charges around in a bs bristling with guns, and why should they? The basic point of a bs is you can mount what you like and still retain a level of defence, ever tried mining a 0.2 in a frigate? There should be a role for frigates, yes, and right now it's limited, but let's wait and see what CCP's tech II update brings to the frigate side of things...


I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Could you be a bit clearer?

Warnei Belmid
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2004.01.29 11:20:00 - [39]
 

I like frigates. I have an alt in Merc Frigates, but - I would not put this char in a Frig, because of my implants. Make Implants removable, and i'd fly one every day. I'm not gonna get podkilled and lose like 60 mil or whatever worth of implants. It's that easy. Make them removable.

Jonas D'Vayr
The Scope
Posted - 2004.01.29 11:34:00 - [40]
 

Quote:
Frigates can be very useful, and deadly if the opposition is not prepared for you.

some things that may go a distance in making frigs more useful in battle:

1) up the ecm power. let a frigate be able radically hamper the targetting of a ship. right now its next to impossible for a single frigate to be able to jam a battleship - or even more than 1 battlehsip. (maybe give frigates boosted targetting range as well?)

a single dedicated ecm ship should be able to lock down 4-5 enemy ships without trouble.

2) eccm moved into high slots. if you are trying to avoid being locked down, you should have to suffer for it. (is it possible to boost a friend's targetting strenght?)

3) indirect targetting - let a frigate be a "spotter" for other ships - let it do the targetting for a battleship with appropriate modules :)




In answer to 1) A griffin can jam a BS pretty much forever, a pair can jam, scramble and web a BS pretty much forever. Between them they have 4 launcher slots so with a few ships backing them up they could pose a threat.

In answer to 2) I think it is possible to boost a friend's targetting strength. Not sure about it but maybe look through some ECCM descriptions.

In relation to 3) excellent idea but would it be of much practical use? Are there BS's with greater weapons range than their targeting range?

In 1906 Britain launched the HMS Dreadnaught, this ship was bigger and more powerful than any battleship that had come before it. For the next 12 years Britain and Germany (Both super-powers) were involved in an arms race to see who could build most dreadnaught class ships. So in real life there are occasions where bigger is better.

That said (written) I still think that frigates should be used in PVP even if its just for roles such as scouting etc. I'm interested about the guy who managed to take down a cruiser in a frigate, Bravo!

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.01.29 11:53:00 - [41]
 

Quote:

In 1906 Britain launched the HMS Dreadnaught, this ship was bigger and more powerful than any battleship that had come before it. For the next 12 years Britain and Germany (Both super-powers) were involved in an arms race to see who could build most dreadnaught class ships. So in real life there are occasions where bigger is better.



Go whack a wasp's nest with a stick.

My money is on the wasps Very Happy

Pychian Vanervi
Solar Revenue Service
TAXU
Posted - 2004.01.29 12:00:00 - [42]
 

Quote:
I like frigates. I have an alt in Merc Frigates, but - I would not put this char in a Frig, because of my implants. Make Implants removable, and i'd fly one every day. I'm not gonna get podkilled and lose like 60 mil or whatever worth of implants. It's that easy. Make them removable.


And remove yet more risk from the game!!

Implants can be replaced, ships can be replaced, mods can be replaced.




toaster
APEX ARDENT COALITION
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2004.01.29 13:54:00 - [43]
 

Quote:
Frigates can be very useful, and deadly if the opposition is not prepared for you.

some things that may go a distance in making frigs more useful in battle:

1) up the ecm power. let a frigate be able radically hamper the targetting of a ship. right now its next to impossible for a single frigate to be able to jam a battleship - or even more than 1 battlehsip. (maybe give frigates boosted targetting range as well?)

a single dedicated ecm ship should be able to lock down 4-5 enemy ships without trouble.

2) eccm moved into high slots. if you are trying to avoid being locked down, you should have to suffer for it. (is it possible to boost a friend's targetting strenght?)

3) indirect targetting - let a frigate be a "spotter" for other ships - let it do the targetting for a battleship with appropriate modules :)




#1 is just silly, I understand what your getting at but that just wouldn't and should'nt happen. In my opinion frigs are just fine the way they. They are valuable in small fleet combat if used properly and can be deadly if used in swarms.

If a leader had the foresight and leadership to construct and effectively lead a fleet with 5 BSs, 5 cruisers, and 5 frigates...that would be a great fleet that could take on fleets with much more firepower. Just use every ship to it's greatest advantage (frigs = lock time/webbing/speed, cruisers = jamming/damage, BS = damage dealers).

Maud Dib
Caldari
The Bleeding Heart Cult
Posted - 2004.01.29 14:25:00 - [44]
 

Quote:
The problem is with BS owners. Ok, BS are expensive and alot of people have spent alot of time mining or whatever to get one - but that was your choice to do it. You also do not have a divine right to be invincible just by virtue of the fact that you now fly a BS.



I agree 100% but the reverse is true. Because you choose to fly a " weaker" but " more fun" ship doesn't mean people have the divine right to have CCP changes the rules to suit them.
I know that you decided to fly frigates knowing their weaknesses as did all the other dedicated frigate pilots. Why should the rules get changed now just to suit them?
Everytime I spend what seems like an eternity getting to gate I don't say " You know frigates are faster than my battleship. I need to moan until CCP changes that."
That entire line of thinking is very furry.

Rijad
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2004.01.29 14:27:00 - [45]
 

If I have implants worth 50 million I'm NOT going sit down in a PvP fight and risk getting pk:ed.

Maud Dib
Caldari
The Bleeding Heart Cult
Posted - 2004.01.29 14:28:00 - [46]
 

Quote:
Hey Miso, you gonna pay me back 80 mill of the 90 mill I paid for my battleship if this gets patched in? Thought not.
What you're telling me is that (if this does go through in a patch anytime soon) maybe 2-3 frigates can ambush me on my way back from a deep space mining operation with only 1-2 guns on, the rest miner 2's, no eccm and mining drones, and take me out? hell, I'll buy myself a frigate if it comes to thatLaughing
A BS is about FLEXIBILITY, you can mount whatever you like on one, that's the whole point! Not everyone charges around in a bs bristling with guns, and why should they? The basic point of a bs is you can mount what you like and still retain a level of defence, ever tried mining a 0.2 in a frigate? There should be a role for frigates, yes, and right now it's limited, but let's wait and see what CCP's tech II update brings to the frigate side of things...

Errm I hate to tell you this but 2-3 frigates with good pilots can already kill you in that setup you mentioned.

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.01.29 14:30:00 - [47]
 

Yep, spot on Maud. Im not asking for frigates to be made more uber. I just think that people who whine about frigates not having a place in PvP aren't using their brains enough.

Similiarly, people that whine that their BS aren't totally uber and have vulnerabilities also aren't using their brains properly. You need to play to the strengths of the ship you fly and acknowledge the weaknesses.

Also, no matter what you fly, its very hard to gank effectively solo. Which is a good thing.

Its all in the blend, as they say Wink

John Bishop
Caldari
Freedom-Technologies
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
Posted - 2004.01.29 14:58:00 - [48]
 

1 frigate i let a cruise missle chase him 3-6 i will feed my drones, now if a group of em hassle me lets say 10-15 im gone10-15 frigates are a real threat to my bs. it only takes one or two of them to warp jam me another 3-4 to use dampners on me and i wont be able to target and the rest to fire cruis missles, i might beable to keep up with the sheild drain but what about when their big brothers arrive.

frigates are not intirely useless in game. no a single frig is no real threat to my single bs, but a groupe of them working together is.

even if they can only hold me to a point in space they have won, chances are big brother is only a few jumps away, i can call for help but chances are help and big brother will arrive about the same time in wich im still toast.

frigates have their place in pvp a single frigate will never kill a bs but a group of frigates using team work will get the job done. and frigs defantly have a place in fleet ops

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2004.01.29 15:04:00 - [49]
 

IMO no frigate besides those with launchers should ever be able to damage a battleship, and at least in normal PvP situations, they arenīt, which is good.

What frigates need are just a few changes to the game here and there:

  • They need a way to counter and kill drones on their own, fast and reliably.
    What Iīm suggesting is an alteration to the ECM-burst, so that it incapacitates or at least stops drones from shooting anything for a minimum timeperiod of 15 seconds. This way, frigates have their own way of dealing with drones, which gives the rest of the fleet (cruisers'n'battleships) an opportunity to rock'n'roll without wasting Torps on drones.

    With this "drone disruptor" module and a change to missiles (next point), frigates would become much more important as they become the only effective way to deal with heavy drones, which on their part can be a threat to cruisers and battleships if not dealt with. There we have the first role for frigates in larger battles.
    Additionally, now that frigates can deal with drones, their survivability raises a lot, which means a little less risk for the idiot pilot who stuffs implants into his head while planning to risk his life in battleRolling Eyes

  • Missiles, specifically Torpedos and CMs, need to be changed in a way that they are not able to hit frigates. Avoiding a large missile in a frigate should not mean kicking in your MWD to outrun it, it should mean doing the right moves and choosing the right orbit to hinder them from hitting you... and to maybe even be able to sneak around your target to smash its own Torps into it Twisted Evil

    This way, anyone who wants to kill frigates with missiles would have to make a choice. Do I equip CMs/Torps against bships? Or do I go for standards against frigs? Might an M-12 not be a better choice now? Do I want to sacrifice firepower for those small bastards or shouldnīt I just bring a pal in a Punisher along?

    When fighting against battleships in battleships you make choices, you give and you take, you sacrifice and you earn for making sacrifices. When fighting frigates in battleships you laugh, then you undock your drones and activate the launchers. Why shouldnīt you make choices and sacrifices when going against frigates? Because you spent cash on the battleship and your implants? That's not an argument... it's carebear bs.

  • There needs to be a wide range of scanning and recon equipment for frigates. A frigate rigged out for scanning should be able to spot anything and anyone on extreme distances. It should be able to mark targets for the gang, giving it an opportunity to gang-warp to those marked targets. It should be able to scan ships from long ranges, providing vital data for your fleet, acting as your fleet's eyes and ears.

    With this equipment, frigates become extremely important as scout-, intel- and patrolships as they are the only method to reliably mark targets for your gang and spot ships on distances larger than your average targeting range. There should be modules like "ship signature scanners" that can spot ships on distances up to 10 AU... hiding from a scout frigate should be near impossible... it should require modules to counter them (cloaking, ECCM beacons, whatever).

  • Frigates should warp faster than cruisers, cruisers should warp faster than battleships, as long as you donīt gang-warp.



What frigates need arenīt ways to damage anything... they can already damage other frigates which is enough (if you leave drones out of the equation forn now). They need gadgets and ways to perform a key role for a fleet.
Just like a battleship plays its key role as the damage dealer smashing anything that doesnīt move faster than 300 m/s, pracitcally holding the ground for your cruisers and frigates, a frigate should have its role as the premier scoutship... spotting ships, marking targets, killing drones and disturbing battleships.

Damaging a battleship in a small frig is nonsense. Marking the battleship, killing its drones and wrapping it up for your battleships and cruisers to take it out is a whole nother story, its what you call balanced gameplay.

SwitchBl4d3
Heretic Army
Posted - 2004.01.29 15:22:00 - [50]
 

Frigs are cool if you have enough High Level Skills. Just last night we took 2 out (kestrel + breacher). And took the shields away from a Megathron in 2 volleys each. would have been more if i had'nt hit my second launcher too quick and splashed the first missiles. Anyway the Mega's budddys all warped in with scorps so we fled. Given that situation doubleing up to 4-5 Frigs that BS would have already been dead.

a lot of fun are frigs they make extremely light work of cruisers also.

Admiral IceBlock
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
Posted - 2004.01.29 15:24:00 - [51]
 

ECCM Projector boosts ur targets Sensor Strength!!

CCP should add more equipment on Frigates and they should also boost Small Guns dmg by 10%, Medium Guns by 5% and decrease Large Guns dmg by 10%... Frigates should also get a 10% boost in Shield, Armor and Structure and Cruisers should get a 5% boost...

Why? simple, they DIE to FAST!!! One volley of 5 or more Tachyons will kill a Frigate and maybe a Cruiser, the destruction of the Cruiser might take three or four volleys...

A Kestrel can kill a Cruiser in three to five volleys of Cruise, i cant see a Caracel be able to even damage a Battleship!! So, we need another Class of ships, something between Cruisers and Battleships, BattleCruisers?

Maud Dib
Caldari
The Bleeding Heart Cult
Posted - 2004.01.29 15:25:00 - [52]
 

Quote:
Yep, spot on Maud. Im not asking for frigates to be made more uber. I just think that people who whine about frigates not having a place in PvP aren't using their brains enough.

Similiarly, people that whine that their BS aren't totally uber and have vulnerabilities also aren't using their brains properly. You need to play to the strengths of the ship you fly and acknowledge the weaknesses.

Also, no matter what you fly, its very hard to gank effectively solo. Which is a good thing.

Its all in the blend, as they say Wink



Yep i'm all with that.

PS Finish your stuff already so we can go ganking. I um had an unfortunate incident with Concord again. It seems they thought that afk shuttle wasn't as big an irritation as I did..Razz

sokkusu
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
Posted - 2004.01.29 15:28:00 - [53]
 

agree with MaiLina KaTar. but i think fregate should damage bs. not the struture and armor but at least modules (turret, smartbomb and launcher at least). this give another purpose to fregate : decrease the ennemy's firepower to help allied BS.

Jeri
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.01.29 15:32:00 - [54]
 

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.It might be worth pointing out that most wet navy battlships didnt just have 13" to 18" main bore turrets. The would have between 2-4 main turrets then have between 6-8 cruiser lvl 5" turrets for close in support and anti air support. Then of course during WWII battleships would be ringed with anti air wpns.

They used destroyers and cruisers to form task forces even though they could work alone. the destroyers job was picket duty, ie anti-sub and anti-air warfare, cruisers if any,were used for medium support against other large warships as they were more manuverable.

It might be worth considering as said in many threads before that when equiping a battleship, one should have different types of wpns. With 8 slots, use 4 for large wpns, then either 4 for medium wpns or 2 for medium and 2 for small wpns. This way your better able to handle most anything you come across.Smile

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.01.29 15:36:00 - [55]
 

Quote:
PS Finish your stuff already so we can go ganking


Might be back on at the weekend for a bit. Saturday most likely. I think therefore I gank.

Isn't saturday your furry disco pant wearing mining day?

Agan Rafa
Gallente
Posted - 2004.01.29 15:45:00 - [56]
 

..and lets not forget that the very fact of the frigate not representing a significant threat is already a tactical advantage to the good commander.

Also, I'm actually hoping that the more specialist roles in combat may be addressed by creative player manufacturing and research at some point in the future - something that would make this game really unique if it were ever implemented....I for one would *really* like a good old assault carrier (you know, big, full of attack frigates or drones and of course a sizable force of marines for boarding or planetary action....now wouldn't that rock ?)

Cyleth
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.01.29 15:58:00 - [57]
 

./me points on topic
At least make BS a bit cheaper then

Maud Dib
Caldari
The Bleeding Heart Cult
Posted - 2004.01.29 16:03:00 - [58]
 

Quote:
Quote:
PS Finish your stuff already so we can go ganking


Might be back on at the weekend for a bit. Saturday most likely. I think therefore I gank.

Isn't saturday your furry disco pant wearing mining day?


Well for part of it but there's always room for Indy ganking.

Bad Harlequin
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2004.01.29 16:09:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 29/01/2004 16:15:06

Quote:
...yet another flawed RL analogy removed...

Go whack a wasp's nest with a stick.

My money is on the wasps Very Happy

But if i'm wearing my Type "D" Netting Helmet and Vapor Scattering Raid Bomb, who's your money on then? Wink

edit:

"...most wet navy battlships didnt just have 13" to 18" main bore turrets. The would have between 2-4 main turrets then have between 6-8 cruiser lvl 5" turrets for close in support and anti air support. Then of course during WWII battleships would be ringed with anti air wpns."

True. But count how many "high slots" they're using, as you describe.... again, RL anaglogies are fun, interesting, historically notable, and wildly inaccurate.

You can not, should not, and Devs willing will not EVER be able to "prove" some aspect of game design using real life examples. The Megathron needs to be balanced versus a Raven, not a U-Boat! Let it go! Rolling Eyes Very Happy

Warnei Belmid
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2004.01.30 11:08:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Warnei Belmid on 30/01/2004 11:09:35
Quote:
ECCM Projector boosts ur targets Sensor Strength!!

CCP should add more equipment on Frigates and they should also boost Small Guns dmg by 10%, Medium Guns by 5% and decrease Large Guns dmg by 10%... Frigates should also get a 10% boost in Shield, Armor and Structure and Cruisers should get a 5% boost...


Why? simple, they DIE to FAST!!! One volley of 5 or more Tachyons will kill a Frigate and maybe a Cruiser, the destruction of the Cruiser might take three or four volleys...

A Kestrel can kill a Cruiser in three to five volleys of Cruise, i cant see a Caracel be able to even damage a Battleship!! So, we need another Class of ships, something between Cruisers and Battleships, BattleCruisers?



Agreed!! Battlecruisers!!


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