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Jacque Custeau
Minmatar
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
Posted - 2007.07.24 13:35:00 - [331]
 

Originally by: James 315
ASCN was also completely infiltrated by spies, to the point that BoB members shouted over the ASCN TeamSpeak and drowned out the commander. Meanwhile, ASCN had exactly zero spies in BoB--only a few people who had friends in BoB.


This is probably the biggest reason why I dislike BoB. This kind of metagaming and social engineering has got to stop. Unfortunately, because there are no IRL consequences this will continue without pause.

Malachon Draco
Caldari
eXceeded
Posted - 2007.07.24 13:40:00 - [332]
 

Originally by: DB Preacher
Edited by: DB Preacher on 24/07/2007 13:31:49
Originally by: Malachon Draco

You ****ed people off with forum spying, and personal attacks on Cyvok. I know Cyvok did the same (Bob basement dwellers and all that), but he did it on private forums, just like Goons are probably doing on their SA forums.

You dragged it out in the open, and it went downhill from there. Just go back over the timeline, it went downhill from the moment you pulled Cyvok's internal speeches out on Eve-O and used it to smear him back. Had that not happened, I am willing to bet that it would not nearly have gotten as bad as it did. Not that I would claim innocence here, though Very Happy


We never attacked the real life player behind cyvok. We attacked the character Cyvok and the speeches he made as the character Cyvok.

That's the fine line we have always tried to maintain and some people understand that but I can see how some people will misinterpret it as simple oog abuse. It is indeed a fine line.

I would personally see stuff like posting rl pictures of cyvok, emailing him at work, abusing rl relationships etc etc as oog. As in, it has absolutely nothing to do with the game at all.
(that relates to kozak's and s4mp3r0r's posts as well as malachons).

But it's simple semantics really, we always know where we are drawing the line. Other don't have a line and will take it as far as they possibly can in order to try and grief people out of the game anyway they can.

dbp




I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way in my opinion.

Yes, certain, probably most aspects of gameplay in Eve don't carry over to the real world. A guy who is a crap PvPer in Eve could still be an expert soldier. And I don't think Molles megalomaniac tendencies in Eve carry over to him being a budding tyrant in RL.

But questioning a guy's integrity, sanity and ability to lead is an insult that carries over, unless the guy is trying to play an idiot.

You could question whether it was appropriate for Cyvok to make those kinds of speeches on the ASCN forums. You might have a point there that that went over the line. But that doesn't IMO change the fact that it really started to spiral out of control only after it all went public when you put it on Eve-O. Had you ignored the internal speeches and dismissed them as 'propaganda' we don't have to deal with, it might not have gotten this ugly.

Like I said, I don't think BoB is the sole party responsible for the way the forums (and to some extent the game) went, ASCN members, Cyvok, others, probably even myself have contributed to it as well. But if I had to point at what I consider to be (in hindsight) the point of no return, the posting of those chatlogs and accompanying smears on Eve-O would be high on the list.

Will Hunter
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.07.24 13:43:00 - [333]
 

Edited by: Will Hunter on 24/07/2007 13:43:51
Edited by: Will Hunter on 24/07/2007 13:43:36
this is quoted from the 'where did goonswarm go wrong'' thread

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
I'd be lying if I said hitting Reply didn't make me tight in the pants, Jasmine.

But the above person who I shall politely refer to as a "witless cretin" is a perfect example of what I meant. You can't win the forums, and if you tried, I'm sure it would involve a lot more effort than one alt threatening me with "Goons will laugh at you!".

Like, duuuuuude? They already laugh at me.

But you know what would make me feel really bad is if all 12000 of those words turned out to be COMPLETELY WRONG. I feel relieved there is no threat of that happening now ^^


we made Digi feel badEmbarassed

Dagam
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.07.24 13:48:00 - [334]
 

Originally by: DB Preacher
Edited by: DB Preacher on 24/07/2007 13:31:49
Originally by: Malachon Draco

You ****ed people off with forum spying, and personal attacks on Cyvok. I know Cyvok did the same (Bob basement dwellers and all that), but he did it on private forums, just like Goons are probably doing on their SA forums.

You dragged it out in the open, and it went downhill from there. Just go back over the timeline, it went downhill from the moment you pulled Cyvok's internal speeches out on Eve-O and used it to smear him back. Had that not happened, I am willing to bet that it would not nearly have gotten as bad as it did. Not that I would claim innocence here, though Very Happy


We never attacked the real life player behind cyvok. We attacked the character Cyvok and the speeches he made as the character Cyvok.

That's the fine line we have always tried to maintain and some people understand that but I can see how some people will misinterpret it as simple oog abuse. It is indeed a fine line.

I would personally see stuff like posting rl pictures of cyvok, emailing him at work, abusing rl relationships etc etc as oog. As in, it has absolutely nothing to do with the game at all.
(that relates to kozak's and s4mp3r0r's posts as well as malachons).

But it's simple semantics really, we always know where we are drawing the line. Other don't have a line and will take it as far as they possibly can in order to try and grief people out of the game anyway they can.

dbp




Really? Is this your new party line because about a year ago we were seeing quite the opposite.

Originally by: Blacklight

We'll reign in the forum behaviour once tempers have calmed be sure of it but right now 90% of BoB would have a very hard job not leveling those idiots in real life if we met them.



Originally by: DB Preacher

GoonSwarm is an alliance. It is an alliance led by one of the biggest ******s in Eve. This is a man who thinks he is ****** reincarnated. Until he somehow ended up in charge of GoonSwarm he was a failure at eve. You know the type, the ones who can't quit figure out why he keeps dying in low sec but still goes back everyday to get ganked again without looking at local.
...
It began with us camping S-U, the heart of their alliance. We did this for a month. In that time we owned them completely.

We removed the ingame pos, we removed them from their ingame ships and we removed thier ingame will to play.

They mocked us saying none of it mattered, yet they still continued to get owned.

Their alliance is a joke, there is no leadership, there is no teamwork.

There is nothing but a bunch of idiots playing eve solo while asslicking a ******.

The lucky ones are those who have seen through the facade and have moved onto other corps. They might have a future in eve.

Those who remain will be griefed, harrassed, killed, mocked and abused until the servers go down.

They will never be allowed to build up in any sector of 0.0 space and whose alliance will be slaughtered whenever we feel like it.

Goons in space?

No,

Corpses in space.

Coming Soon - something else when we do more stuff dbp


DB Preacher
Minmatar
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.07.24 13:48:00 - [335]
 

Originally by: Malachon Draco
But questioning a guy's integrity, sanity and ability to lead is an insult that carries over, unless the guy is trying to play an idiot.


Do you fail to see the difference or do you choose to ignore the difference between questioning the character Cyvok about comments made on an alliance forum about the role an alliance plays in the game and someone calling us people who live in mommy's basement playing games for a living or someone posting rl pics of our members with inflammatory comments on them?

dbp

DB Preacher
Minmatar
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.07.24 13:50:00 - [336]
 

Originally by: Dagam
Really? Is this your new party line because about a year ago we were seeing quite the opposite.


We are talking about these forums dude, not rkk forums, not bob forums, not shc, not sa.

Keep up ;)

dbp

Lunas Feelgood
Gallente
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.07.24 13:56:00 - [337]
 

Originally by: DB Preacher
Originally by: Lee Bian
Originally by: DB Preacher
Indeed and pretty much a major reason why alot of "old timers" are moving on. The general degradation of the game community as a fun place to be where light-hearted, pompous outrageousness was part and parcel of the forums has been replaced with oog attacks and simple, direct kiddiespam abuse.

/me shrugs

At least it was fun while it lasted :)

dbp
is this a fakepost because if it is it's one of the funniest thing i've read on these forums. if it's not it's still funny, but on a whole different level


Don't worry kid, only the "old timers" around will understand the post so I wouldn't waste time trying to decipher it ;)

Just laugh and mock it as normal.
dbp


Im an old timer and I have no idea wtf you are talking about my dear kessie pilot.

Fact is DBP that you post reminds me of some bully in the schoolyards who beats up the younger kids while saying aint we having fun?

That is until the younger kids gets back up and knock you on you ass. And then all of a surden its not fun anymore.

BoB and goons are two very simulary communities and both got no problems using dirty tricks. The two factions are a mirror of eachother and thats proberly why they hate eachother so much. Sometimes when you truly look in the mirror is not that pleasent to see.

Malachon Draco
Caldari
eXceeded
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:05:00 - [338]
 

Edited by: Malachon Draco on 24/07/2007 14:06:07
Originally by: DB Preacher
Originally by: Malachon Draco
But questioning a guy's integrity, sanity and ability to lead is an insult that carries over, unless the guy is trying to play an idiot.


Do you fail to see the difference or do you choose to ignore the difference between questioning the character Cyvok about comments made on an alliance forum about the role an alliance plays in the game and someone calling us people who live in mommy's basement playing games for a living or someone posting rl pics of our members with inflammatory comments on them?

dbp


Well, the RL pictures is a different issue, and I would agree that is another step further.

But the other two are practically the same, only one is direct (Cyvok at you), the other is indirect (you at Cyvok).

Let's analyze it for a minute:
- Cyvok directly said nasty things about you in RL. Personally I would not have taken them seriously at all, since they are obviously false. The 'living in your parents basements' stuff. Its a stereotype. Its like me calling all Scots to be stingy and drunk. An insult about a computergamer to be living in his parents basement is as stereotypical as that.

- Now compare that to what you said about Cyvok. Sure you referred to his ingame persona, but in this case the attributes or charactertraits you referred to, are much less those of his character, as they are of himself in RL. Everyone here I think can imagine a guy liking to fool around in a game and act like a megalomaniac, or a vicious pirate. Those are qualities that are intrinsical to playing the game, or playing a role. But the stuff you said about Cyvok were about character traits where there is no ingame reason to behave in the way you claimed Cyvok did (like being a pirate or megalomaniac). Nor were they qualities that he choose to play in the way you described them. (If you say a clown is acting like an idiot, that different from saying a policeman is acting like an idiot). Cyvok was not trying to roleplay an inept leader, it was not something that is part of the game to exhibit those traits, therefore insulting him on those aspects is in fact an attack on his RL persona.


Mei Han
Gallente
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:05:00 - [339]
 

Nice writing there. Some historic facts i didn't knew and stuff.

But realy, proving that BOB is not invinsible means nothing.
Still there might be no alliance or coalition that can beat them even if there are ways to accoplish that. In time we will see. Lets hope that if they are going to go down, to go fighting and loosing fighting. Internal affairs sux as a reason for disbanding an alliance.

Torshin
Gallente
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:10:00 - [340]
 

well hate to tell you Lunas but you are completely and fully out of touch then. Then general attitude of veteran eve players is that the game isn't worth playing any more and that the constant game mechanic changes and social nature of the game have destroyed the importance of anything but a blob or a capship fleet. Most threads on 3rd party forums constantly speak of returning eve to the good ole days and how that the community as a whole has been destroyed. Take a look at scrap heap challenge some day and you will see a 31 page thread started just cause DS said he is getting bored. That thread turned into old V new, and brought up major issues within the game along with the direction of the game. I think DBP is right to a degree that a large number of veteran pilots are becoming more and more jaded as each patch is released and each war is fought. It becomes more important to be flying a capital ship and less important to be flying a HAC. Yes they have mods outside a POS shield so that a blob of 100 battleships is required to knock it into reinforced and they have introduced anti-spam meassures but this doesn't change. gah sorry to go off on a wall of text. And draco BOB didn't ruin CAOD, **** posting and extreme moderation on certain aspects while mantaining extreme unmoderation on other aspects has, don't even try and kid you self, CAOD was **** when bob was posting and was **** while bob wasn't posting.

Lee Bian
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:13:00 - [341]
 

dbp took the short space bus to space school

look at me, attacking his ingame character

Lee Bian
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:16:00 - [342]
 

Originally by: Torshin
Then general attitude of veteran eve players is that the game isn't worth playing any more and that the constant game mechanic changes and social nature of the game have destroyed the importance of anything but a blob or a capship fleet.

there's a joke here about socially inept nerds (like dbp's ingame character) but i can't be arsed to find it

Tundaar
Minmatar
Eve Defence Force
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:18:00 - [343]
 

Originally by: DB Preacher
Originally by: Malachon Draco

Indeed and pretty much a major reason why alot of "old timers" are moving on. The general degradation of the game community as a fun place to be where light-hearted, pompous outrageousness was part and parcel of the forums has been replaced with oog attacks and simple, direct kiddiespam abuse.

/me shrugs

At least it was fun while it lasted :)

dbp


Lol - 0 yeah - . . . Hmm - personal attacks, Posting OOG and out of context external forum Post extracts, Mass spamming of threads, Huge propaganda threads . . . .seems to me that BoB were the ones who INVENTED all of those tactics. Their pure vitriol and "We can shout loudest so we are coolest" aproach to the forums I found to be quite frankly disgusting during the ASCN war.

Was only when things started going poorly for them that they were muzzled.

Jacque Custeau
Minmatar
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:20:00 - [344]
 

Originally by: DB Preacher
Originally by: Lee Bian
Originally by: DB Preacher
Indeed and pretty much a major reason why alot of "old timers" are moving on. The general degradation of the game community as a fun place to be where light-hearted, pompous outrageousness was part and parcel of the forums has been replaced with oog attacks and simple, direct kiddiespam abuse.

/me shrugs

At least it was fun while it lasted :)

dbp
is this a fakepost because if it is it's one of the funniest thing i've read on these forums. if it's not it's still funny, but on a whole different level


Don't worry kid, only the "old timers" around will understand the post so I wouldn't waste time trying to decipher it ;)

Just laugh and mock it as normal.
dbp


Another old timer here. You and your alliance are what started this downward spiral. It wasn't enough to have spies relay real time information, you needed to inflitrate TS and disrupt fleet coms. You needed to drag out internal forum posts and recorded TS conversations. You are the ones who crossed the line, and others had to retaliate, until the situation reached what it is today. It is the arrogant, win at any cost attitude that you and your alliance has in spades. You say people hate you because they are jealous or because you are winners. Fact is, people hate you because you are ****s. And now when you are confronted by even bigger ****s in the form of GS do you start complaining about the state of the forums.

DB Preacher
Minmatar
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:21:00 - [345]
 

Originally by: Malachon Draco
Well, the RL pictures is a different issue, and I would agree that is another step further.

But the other two are practically the same, only one is direct (Cyvok at you), the other is indirect (you at Cyvok).

Let's analyze it for a minute:
- Cyvok directly said nasty things about you in RL. Personally I would not have taken them seriously at all, since they are obviously false. The 'living in your parents basements' stuff. Its a stereotype. Its like me calling all Scots to be stingy and drunk. An insult about a computergamer to be living in his parents basement is as stereotypical as that.

- Now compare that to what you said about Cyvok. Sure you referred to his ingame persona, but in this case the attributes or charactertraits you referred to, are much less those of his character, as they are of himself in RL. Everyone here I think can imagine a guy liking to fool around in a game and act like a megalomaniac, or a vicious pirate. Those are qualities that are intrinsical to playing the game, or playing a role. But the stuff you said about Cyvok were about character traits where there is no ingame reason to behave in the way you claimed Cyvok did (like being a pirate or megalomaniac). Nor were they qualities that he choose to play in the way you described them. (If you say a clown is acting like an idiot, that different from saying a policeman is acting like an idiot). Cyvok was not trying to roleplay an inept leader, it was not something that is part of the game to exhibit those traits, therefore insulting him on those aspects is in fact an attack on his RL persona.




Like I said earlier, semantics. Some peeps see the line for what it is and others are happy enough to discard it or ignore it if it backs up their opinions.

Unfortunately, it's getting obvious that you are doing your usual and simply arguing for the sake of arguing and looking for some conclusions which backs up the opposite opinion to mine. If you honestly believe that someone saying Cyvok is posting falsehoods about eve on an eve forum from another eve forum is the same as abusing someone directly in real life by calling them anything completely unrelated to eve is the same thing then I'm afraid this isn't a conversation I have any interest in continuing because we simply have different povs of which there is no common ground.

So I'll bow out and leave you to it,
enjoy,
dbp

Cmdr Sp0ck
Gallente
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:23:00 - [346]
 

Originally by: Lunas Feelgood
Originally by: DB Preacher
Originally by: Lee Bian
Originally by: DB Preacher
Indeed and pretty much a major reason why alot of "old timers" are moving on. The general degradation of the game community as a fun place to be where light-hearted, pompous outrageousness was part and parcel of the forums has been replaced with oog attacks and simple, direct kiddiespam abuse.

/me shrugs

At least it was fun while it lasted :)

dbp
is this a fakepost because if it is it's one of the funniest thing i've read on these forums. if it's not it's still funny, but on a whole different level


Don't worry kid, only the "old timers" around will understand the post so I wouldn't waste time trying to decipher it ;)

Just laugh and mock it as normal.
dbp


Im an old timer and I have no idea wtf you are talking about my dear kessie pilot.

Fact is DBP that you post reminds me of some bully in the schoolyards who beats up the younger kids while saying aint we having fun?

That is until the younger kids gets back up and knock you on you ass. And then all of a surden its not fun anymore.

BoB and goons are two very simulary communities and both got no problems using dirty tricks. The two factions are a mirror of eachother and thats proberly why they hate eachother so much. Sometimes when you truly look in the mirror is not that pleasent to see.


Luny you old git, you just cant resist can you? Laughing

Shadowsword
Gallente
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:23:00 - [347]
 

Originally by: DB Preacher
Indeed and pretty much a major reason why alot of "old timers" are moving on. The general degradation of the game community as a fun place to be where light-hearted, pompous outrageousness was part and parcel of the forums has been replaced with oog attacks and simple, direct kiddiespam abuse.

/me shrugs

At least it was fun while it lasted :)

dbp


Leaving aside semantics about in-game and out-of-game taunts, the reasons the community degraded so much is because a lot of players lost the respect they had for fellow players. And I blame all the meta-gaming crap for it.

When you kill a Titan by using a very borderline tactic, then gloat about it and taunt D2, for what was in essence a very, very minor mistake (logging off in a pos, without aggro timer when the pilot took the decision to log off), when you use a titan and freighters daily to run bugged trade routes, you can't expect others to just cheer you. All they see is arrogance, and a willingness to do anything that will get you any advantage.

So half the community lost it's respect toward Bob (and, by extension, your allies that come in droves to defend whatever action of yours is the cause of it), the other half answer in kind to what they consider as whining, and because of that, the roleplayed hostility between players on each side of the fence become real.

You are the cause of it, Bob. You aren't the only factor, of course, but you are by far the bigger and most influencial one, with your thrice-be-damned "anything to win" mentality.

Barwinius
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:23:00 - [348]
 

It’s the “old timers” to blame if any such degradation has occurred in the EVE community. Practice what you preach.

Malachon Draco
Caldari
eXceeded
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:25:00 - [349]
 

Originally by: DB Preacher
Like I said earlier, semantics. Some peeps see the line for what it is and others are happy enough to discard it or ignore it if it backs up their opinions.

Unfortunately, it's getting obvious that you are doing your usual and simply arguing for the sake of arguing and looking for some conclusions which backs up the opposite opinion to mine. If you honestly believe that someone saying Cyvok is posting falsehoods about eve on an eve forum from another eve forum is the same as abusing someone directly in real life by calling them anything completely unrelated to eve is the same thing then I'm afraid this isn't a conversation I have any interest in continuing because we simply have different povs of which there is no common ground.

So I'll bow out and leave you to it,
enjoy,
dbp


Actually, I kinda like debating you Very Happy

Now if ALL you did was "saying Cyvok is posting falsehoods about eve on an eve forum from another eve forum" then I would agree with you, that would be completely ingame. But I think you did more than that.


DB Preacher
Minmatar
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:27:00 - [350]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword

When you kill a Titan by using a very borderline tactic, then gloat about it and taunt D2, for what was in essence a very, very minor mistake (logging off in a pos, without aggro timer when the pilot took the decision to log off), when you use a titan and freighters daily to run bugged trade routes, you can't expect others to just cheer you. All they see is arrogance, and a willingness to do anything that will get you any advantage.


Except we didn't. This is part of the problem in that alot of the times people presume something that hasn't actually happened. We weren't even posting on eve-o at the time iirc.

dbp

Malachon Draco
Caldari
eXceeded
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:30:00 - [351]
 

Originally by: DB Preacher
Originally by: Shadowsword

When you kill a Titan by using a very borderline tactic, then gloat about it and taunt D2, for what was in essence a very, very minor mistake (logging off in a pos, without aggro timer when the pilot took the decision to log off), when you use a titan and freighters daily to run bugged trade routes, you can't expect others to just cheer you. All they see is arrogance, and a willingness to do anything that will get you any advantage.


Except we didn't. This is part of the problem in that alot of the times people presume something that hasn't actually happened. We weren't even posting on eve-o at the time iirc.

dbp


If that's the case and the general consensus about you is something which is not true, then you really lost the propaganda game, haven't you Laughing

DB Preacher
Minmatar
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:32:00 - [352]
 

Originally by: Lee Bian
dbp took the short space bus to space school

look at me, attacking his ingame character


Originally by: Lee Bian

there's a joke here about socially inept nerds (like dbp's ingame character) but i can't be arsed to find it


These are amusing comments to look at also as they highlight another large problem of the forums (ignore the alliance or the poster and look at the comments).

Alot of the time, people will simply jump in with a 1 line "funny" in order to detract from conversation or simply abuse the opposition. Everyone does it and it isn't only one side. However, the change in tone of these "funnies" have altered massively over the last couple of years from being tongue in cheek to actual plain abuse and even on the odd occasion that people try and make it ingame they actually fail miserably (as is the case here).

It would be interesting to see what would have happened to Jade's, Halseths, Hardin's, Morkt Drakt's etc etc commentary on the game had the forums been in a similar mess back then.

dbp

Mihailo Great
Gallente
Dublin Core
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:32:00 - [353]
 

If Band of Brothers ever fell apart, I wouldn't be suprised to hear them denying anyone victory. They're the masters of denial and self-delusion.

Whenever goons get the pleasure to talk to a BOB member in local, our funny bones are tickled by their lack of knowledge over the situation. It appears that BOB members are only kept informed of good developements.

As for Goons, we're just having tremendous fun, and the war hasn't stopped goons from being goons in the slightest. That's the only thing that matters to me.

Drake Mezcal
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
Session Changes
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:38:00 - [354]
 

BOB would not give anyone the satisfaction of killing them. If BOB start to feel to much pressure and fighting moves to Delve, i predict the CEOs would sort out alliance wealth and distribute it amongst the corps, then some form of internal disagreement would be acted out/faked within high command, and BOB would collapse.

Propaganda portraying the image that BOB killed its self because it was too powerful.

Blah Blah Blah,

Zombak
Caldari
Shooshpunk
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:44:00 - [355]
 

In my opinion there is something highly suspicious about male players using female avatars in online games.
It also can be source of all those negative comments as male personality clashes with female image producing cognitive dissonance in the brain of most posters.

Kcel Chim
Caldari
Arcane Technologies
The Five
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:45:00 - [356]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword


Leaving aside semantics about in-game and out-of-game taunts, the reasons the community degraded so much is because a lot of players lost the respect they had for fellow players. And I blame all the meta-gaming crap for it.

When you kill a Titan by using a very borderline tactic, then gloat about it and taunt D2, for what was in essence a very, very minor mistake (logging off in a pos, without aggro timer when the pilot took the decision to log off), when you use a titan and freighters daily to run bugged trade routes, you can't expect others to just cheer you. All they see is arrogance, and a willingness to do anything that will get you any advantage.

So half the community lost it's respect toward Bob (and, by extension, your allies that come in droves to defend whatever action of yours is the cause of it), the other half answer in kind to what they consider as whining, and because of that, the roleplayed hostility between players on each side of the fence become real.

You are the cause of it, Bob. You aren't the only factor, of course, but you are by far the bigger and most influencial one, with your thrice-be-damned "anything to win" mentality.


I dont mind wild accusations flying around but please try to research your statements abit before posting walls of text.

Im not flaming you but both statements with regards to bobs tactic are wrong.

D2 lost their titan because their pilot logged with aggro. A mistake which is done daily by many pilots and usually results in ships getting destroyed, regardless of size. Not to mention that at that point of time it was the only possible way to kill a titan something which got acknowledged by ccp and fixed in the coming patches.

It was not bob running traderoutes with their titan and freighters, as far as im aware it was a traderun from fountain to venal used by D2. Something which is not shady at all. The traderoutes are there and they made use of the ships in game to run them properly. Note, its an alliance hostile to bob and i dont see an "borderline" tactic in it. Its like the old carrier route to curse which some northerners ran printing billions a week.

As far as the community degrading goes, i find myself agreeing with Dbp. Ive made similar posts awhile back which were met with the usual fofofo spam. Something which indicates coad is broken. The respect you speak of is not just gone between "half of the community" and bob. But between the majority of all players.

Heilongjiang
Amarr
legion of qui
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:46:00 - [357]
 

You just have to ask yourself the question,
Had BoB not existed over the last 2 years,would COAD have degenerated into its current state?
If you can honestly answer that to yourself,you'll have your answer right there.

As a side point and IMHO from reading BoB posting over the years they seem to forget,like it or not being at the very edge of the Endgame they set precedents to many other players and Alliances.

Some things they do admittedly are positive,although their manipulations of the EvE community I think went to far,and those kinds of points,once gone beyond can't be erased.

Perhaps some of the older veterans are now getting a taste of the boredom and frustrations that the newer players feel,when we have to swim in the crap they create on a daily basis?

Nifel
Caldari
PAX Technologies
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:51:00 - [358]
 

Originally by: fugazii
The signs go back far far than what your writing about.

In fact it goes back to bob's coming out party the GNW. The whole concept of what bob is built on is completely contradicted by this war. If the intension of bob is to own all of 0.0, yet they left 5 'conquered' regions of space because they are "bored", that reasoning just makes no sence. The fact of it is, they were being beaten...badly. They never removed PA from Venal and G was playing ping pong with BKG, Fade and Deklein already under thier controll, when BOB decided they were bored.

This is when BoBs forums skills emerged and it was sucessfully spun into them being bored, and that there was noone to fight.

Next came FA, this was a long war, even with period basis being fully taken for them by allies which later became the5. After this war, something happened. Something that has been rewrittin and almost forgoten about...FIX. The FIX war saw BoB fight someone 1v1 for the first time. The war lasted in a complete stalemate for a decently long time. After a few months and with nothing to show, people began to talk..why cant the end all pvp alliance beat a CFS t2? So BoB did what they did in the north and give up, however this wasnt what was said on the forums. The forum warriors spun it as they are letting FIX live, and that they are worthy to keep thier space and be allies.

Look it up.


You had much better spin years ago. I'm disappointed :(.

Divus
Minmatar
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:53:00 - [359]
 

Edited by: Divus on 24/07/2007 14:54:08
sure this is playing into one sides hands an all that - but dude props for the affort u've put into this - good post

edit: can#t wait to read part II and III Very Happy

Amerame
Gallente
Kernel of War
Tau Ceti Federation
Posted - 2007.07.24 14:56:00 - [360]
 

After inventing the megablob in EC-PR and now whining whenever they are outnumbered, BoB leadership is complaining about out of game attack ? Maybe you should have though twice before declaring an "holy war for Eve purity" against Goons for out of game reasons, saying it was *personnal*. I hope you realise it has nothing to do with the game itself when you try to get people to attack GS because its players are from SA. You crossed a line that shouldn't have been crossed and now you reap what you sow.



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