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blankseplocked building vs refining
 
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Johnthechaotic
Gallente
JOHN CO.
Posted - 2007.07.23 13:06:00 - [1]
 

this is gonna sound crazy but....

lets say i build a ship, a dominix at ME30 which uses X amount of materials and i then refine it with perfect refining skills and standing to recieve the ships full 100% mineral value... am i recieving the ME0 amount of minerals or would it somehow know that the ship was built at ME30 and give me the ME30 amount back?

also tack on that production effiecency skill for another 20%? less minerals used in building it

if your thinking what im thinking, this sounds like an isk factory like if i were to build dominix after dominix at ME30 and just do perfect refines for mineralss and then make more dominixs with the additional minerals that im creating outa thin air....

did that make sense? is that like basicly creating more minerals from nothing? or does that not work at all that way? or did i smoke way too much this morning...

let me know

thanks

J'Mkarr Soban
Posted - 2007.07.23 13:10:00 - [2]
 

I've never thought about that before.

I think, though, that at the highest ME you don't need any _extra_ minerals. So the perfect base is added to for mistakes, bad design etc. Though ultimately, the ship will still be the same, which means that every single Dominix has the same amount of materials in them, the perfect amount. Look at the extra amount of minerals over the perfect amount as the stuff thrown away because you got it wrong, not that you can get progressively more and more out of minerals.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.07.23 13:19:00 - [3]
 

Perfect build materials needed == perfect refine yield.

Base build (no PE skill, ME 0 on BP) has an added 35% waste factor, 25% of it you can get rid of by training PE skill to L5, the other 10% you can get rid of by researching the BP to "perfect ME" levels.
The "perfect ME" needed is roughly highest material count (at "perfect build") / 5... or ME 0 count / 5.5
So if a ship needs, for instance 2200 zydrine on a ME 0 (so 2000 zydrine at "perfect build"), you need roughly ME 400 on the BP to only need 2000 zydrine to build it (if you also have the PE skill up to L5).


However, I'm not sure on the details, but wasn't there a certain POS module that allowed for "efficient assembly" of items (meaning a "discount" for material cost) ? Or was that just "less waste", so you could build with less skill and/or less ME on the BP at "perfect build" costs ?
Theoretically, if such an "efficient" factory actually allows you to build BELOW "perfect build" amounts with a highly researched BP and PE 5... then you could use it to "generate" minerals out of nowhere through repeated manufacture/recycle cycles.

Johnthechaotic
Gallente
JOHN CO.
Posted - 2007.07.23 13:21:00 - [4]
 

well consider a high enough ME to have a 0.000000% wastage build

what about that skill that builds them for 20% less materials? does this exceed that perfect amount?

isnt there another skill that reduces build wastage by a percentage?

will some really rich manufacturer test this out for me? lol

you would need great standings at this station you build at, and also that scrapmetal refining skill and whatnot

i dont know if anyone really thought of that when they made the skills and whatnot, but this smells like infinite isk thing if it can be done the way i described




Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.07.23 13:23:00 - [5]
 

Uh, nope, cheked, there's no such module... the "efficient" equipment assembly array has a *0.8 time and a *1.0 material need, so it's just faster as a regular factory but equally effective... the "rapid" equipment assembly array is *0.65 time and *1.2 material, so 20% waste but significantly faster.

Nope, no chance of "minerals out of nowhere".
Sorry Twisted Evil

Johnthechaotic
Gallente
JOHN CO.
Posted - 2007.07.23 13:47:00 - [6]
 

i still think this is viable as it doesnt make much sense that when u refine something you used 100000 tritanium to build you can only get back a maximum of less than that following along the lines of what ME research and certain skills do for the manufacturing and also perfect refining skills

this is gonna **** me off till someone or myself tests this rofl


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.07.23 13:59:00 - [7]
 

What's so hard to understand ?
Take Passive Targeter I for instance.

The item itself, when recycled (with L1 scrapmetal processing and at a "good refine" NPC station you have high standings with) will yield EXACTLY 12500 tritanium.

A freshly bought BPO, at ME 0, with you at no levels of PE trained, will list a "waste factor" of 10%, and the material need will be
"You : 16875 Tritanium [Perfect : 13750 Tritanium]".

If you bring that BPO at over 2500 ME, the listing will chance to show a "waste factor" of almost (but not quite) 0%, yet the material need will be
"You : 15625 Tritanium [Perfect : 12500 Tritanium]".

Getting the PE skill up to L5 will allow you to actually BUILD that for 12500 tritanium.
BUT NOT LESS.

Leo Balthur
Viziam
Posted - 2007.07.23 14:16:00 - [8]
 

its easy
WASTE = more minerals needed to build a ship
no waste = basic mineral cost
non-perfect refining = you get less minerals from the refine (less= no waste - waste)
perfect refining = the "no waste" amount.

no way to magically create minerals ;]

Mona X
Caldari
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2007.07.23 19:56:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Akita T

Base build (no PE skill, ME 0 on BP) has an added 35% waste factor, 25% of it you can get rid of by training PE skill to L5, the other 10% you can get rid of by researching the BP to "perfect ME" levels.


They're stacked, so it's 37.5%.

GC13
Caldari
Species 5618
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2007.07.24 01:06:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Mona X
They're stacked, so it's 37.5%.
No they're not, so it's 35%.


 

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