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DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.07.16 16:08:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: DubanFP on 16/07/2007 16:16:15
Here's a list of skills EVERY SINGLE PLAYER should train to at least IV, V is better.


Energy Management: Increases your max Cap by 5% per level
"Also increasing your recharge rate 5%"

Energy Systems Operation: Decreases your cap recharge time 5% "which increases your cap recharge by 1/(1-.05% per level) which is greater then a 5% increase"

Together at level IV those 2 skills will increase your cap recharge by 50%, allow you to sustain that recharge for 20% longer "Because you have 20% more cap", and this effect is further increased because it helps overcome the static X amount of cap used by hardeners


Engineering: 5% bonus to ship's Power Grid

Electronics: 5% bonus to ship's CPU

Nessissary to fit any ship well


Weapon Upgrades: Decreases weapon CPU usage by 5% per level

Advanced Weapon Upgrades: Decreases weapon PG usage 2% per level

Again with the fittings. Advanced Weapon Upgrades isn't 100% required since it requires Weapon Upgrades V, but it's always good to have


Drones: Allows you use fit 1 drone per level

Drone Interfacing: 20% bonus to drone damage per level "requires Drones V"

Although not a requirment at first. Having good drone skills is essential to quickly swat those pesky frigs once you get into a Battleship. Once you can fit your Battleship decently this should become your priority


Learning Skills: All of the basics to Level IV, all the advanced to Level III. Very handy to actually get your SP anywhere in EVE. Once you can fit a ship decently and are actually getting somewhere it becomes importaint for long term development.




Sparkius
Amarr
Posted - 2007.07.16 16:22:00 - [2]
 

Excellent list.

For any pilot that sees combat, here are a few more that should be considered required:

Mechanic - 5% to structure hit points per level.
Hull Upgrades (Mechanic) - 5% to armor hit points per level.
Shield Management (Engineering) - 5% to shield hit points per level.


DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.07.16 16:29:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Sparkius
Excellent list.

For any pilot that sees combat, here are a few more that should be considered required:

Mechanic - 5% to structure hit points per level.
Hull Upgrades (Mechanic) - 5% to armor hit points per level.
Shield Management (Engineering) - 5% to shield hit points per level.



Honestly i wouldn't include mechanic. If you're taking structure you're probebly screwed anyways.

Hull upgrades and shield management are great for passive tanks but don't have much use in active. All and all they have they're uses but i really wouldn't qualify them as nessisary. BTW for a passive shield tank include Shield Operation, helps you're shield recharge rate the same way as Energy System Operation helps cap recharge.

Leviathan Brian
Amarr
Posted - 2007.07.16 16:36:00 - [4]
 

You are wrong about Mechanic. Mechanic to level 5 is very important not only because of close situations but because it is a prereq for assault ships. <3

DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.07.16 16:40:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: DubanFP on 16/07/2007 16:41:23
Originally by: Leviathan Brian
You are wrong about Mechanic. Mechanic to level 5 is very important not only because of close situations but because it is a prereq for assault ships. <3

Interceptor & Battlecruiser > Assault ship

Honestly i don't know why ANYONE would use Assault ships for anything except eventually upgrading to HAC & Command Ship. Even that that's not someone everyone should go for.

Sparkius
Amarr
Posted - 2007.07.16 16:44:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: DubanFP

Honestly i wouldn't include mechanic. If you're taking structure you're probebly screwed anyways.

Hull upgrades and shield management are great for passive tanks but don't have much use in active. All and all they have they're uses but i really wouldn't qualify them as nessisary. BTW for a passive shield tank include Shield Operation, helps you're shield recharge rate the same way as Energy System Operation helps cap recharge.


You have a valid argument. However, any active tank becomes a passive tank when you have no cap, and any pilot that turns down a 25% (essentially) free boost to each of their hit point buffers should rethink their ultimate strategy. In my opinion it is a well-spent month of training. Mechanic IV is a needed step on the way to many active armor tank modules anyway.


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.07.16 20:02:00 - [7]
 

I got assault ships to lvl 5
on the test my EW jag took out a vagabond. not bad huh :P

William McCracken
Gallente
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2007.07.16 23:00:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: DubanFP

Mechanic - 5% to structure hit points per level.
Hull Upgrades (Mechanic) - 5% to armor hit points per level.
Shield Management (Engineering) - 5% to shield hit points per level.




Hull upgrades and shield management are great for passive tanks but don't have much use in active. All and all they have they're uses but i really wouldn't qualify them as nessisary. BTW for a passive shield tank include Shield Operation, helps you're shield recharge rate the same way as Energy System Operation helps cap recharge.


Hull upgrades V is required for t2 armor hardeners. For armor tankers, I would consider it required.

You should preface your recommendations that they're for combat pilots. A trader or a researcher has little need for combat skills, if they're doing what they're supposed to.

Vincenzo Delloro
Amarr
Lux et Veritas
Posted - 2007.07.16 23:54:00 - [9]
 

It's tempting to suggest Salvaging and Science (tractor beams) too. Not something everyone needs, but it's a huge increase in ISK income if you have them.

Mephistophilis
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.07.17 07:25:00 - [10]
 

A good list, all the core skills are realy important. They will set your char up in all his/her ships. Don't forget
Warp drive opp 5
and
Evasive manovering
Well the list could go on....

Phinea Scramjammer
Posted - 2007.07.17 08:41:00 - [11]
 

Also Gunnery.

Strife Phoenix
Blade Enterprises
Posted - 2007.07.17 08:51:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: DubanFP

Honestly i wouldn't include mechanic. If you're taking structure you're probebly screwed anyways.

Hull upgrades and shield management are great for passive tanks but don't have much use in active. All and all they have they're uses but i really wouldn't qualify them as nessisary. BTW for a passive shield tank include Shield Operation, helps you're shield recharge rate the same way as Energy System Operation helps cap recharge.


Hmm.. If I remember correctly it is a prerequisite for T2 Armour tanking stuff(?)

And I would say Basic and advanced learning to IV but that is just me, I like the speed of my SP :)

Redora
Gallente
Universal Exports
Posted - 2007.07.17 09:46:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: DubanFP

Honestly i wouldn't include mechanic. If you're taking structure you're probebly screwed anyways.

Hull upgrades and shield management are great for passive tanks but don't have much use in active. All and all they have they're uses but i really wouldn't qualify them as nessisary. BTW for a passive shield tank include Shield Operation, helps you're shield recharge rate the same way as Energy System Operation helps cap recharge.


I would say that's HIGHLY subjective, since most (if not ALL) Gallente ships have more Hull HP than they have Armor. AND, if you decide to fit a DCU (Which isn't stack nerfed) over a 2nd EANM or something, you end up with an additional 50% hull, which means with Mech 5 you have 37.5% more hull. I'd call that a definite plus for a week's training and minimal CPU/PG.

Mos Superum
Gallente
Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors
Posted - 2007.07.17 15:04:00 - [14]
 

I found, as a new paying player, Hammer Judge's list of skills to train very helpful.

I've gotten most of the Level IV recommend skills he mentions up to Level IV. I'm trying to get Energy Management to Level IV so I can start using MAPCs on smaller ships like frigates vs. wasting low slots on PDU Is and RCU Is (+10 raw PG with a MAPC is better than +15% on a base 40PG).

I think something that should be said here is TRAIN UP THE SHIP SKILL. I didn't know until about 5 minutes ago that training the ship skill up not only leads to better classes of ships (T2 ships later on), but it also boosts the ship bonuses you get for a ship level. DUH! I've never known that.

10% drone damage bonus on a Vexor (I think) for each level? Each level of what? I thought it was the DRONE skill. Not the ship skill itself. **** -- I'd have trained it higher if I'd known that. Idea

My newbie 2 cents...

Mos Superum

NCP S2
Posted - 2007.07.17 18:07:00 - [15]
 

Some good advice, and counter arguments brought up, remember, it's all about how you feel like playing.

If you are planning ahead like you should, getting all of the basic learning skills up to 4 is a good start. It will cut training time down dramatically, and you can get the first 2 levels in the advance learning set up quick as well. Faster training = faster rewards.

I'd have to throw out there, if you are planning on getting into a bigger ship, train up your weapons skills (or mining) before you get into your ship. It feels pretty horrible sitting in a Battleship with Medium weapons because you didn't bother to get the weapon skills yet.

As far as Lvl 5 skills... Unless you want to focus on T2 anything, don't worry so much. Lvl 4 does just about the same effect wise, but doesn't take a million weeks to train up.

The best skill to train up, is planning. Plan in advance what you want to do, and adjust your skill training accordingly. It might seem like it's taking forever to train up to that T2 Frigate or getting T2 weapons for your Battleship, but when you train right, you can knock weeks off of your total training time.

Interdictor with out planning = 60 days training
Interdictor with planning = 45 days training

DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.07.18 22:55:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
I got assault ships to lvl 5
on the test my EW jag took out a vagabond. not bad huh :P


musta been one crappily fit vag

Gojyu
Ever Flow
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2007.07.25 06:33:00 - [17]
 

You've missed possibly the two most important skills in the game:

Hull upgrades.
Tactical Shield manipulation.

Train one of these skills. Hull upgrades to a minimum of 4 or tsm to a minimum of 1. These allow you to use active hardeners- possibly the most powerful non-capital defensive module in the game

Suyai
Posted - 2007.07.25 13:56:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Suyai on 25/07/2007 13:57:20
*boggle*

Wow.. this thread has been both informing and a touch overwhelming.

Brand new account, new to Eve.

Applying logic, should I be going after Learning Skills first off? I notice that there are 11 of them listed, any particular order of precedence?

Forgive me if I am missing something important with regards to training... like Ive got to go buy the books somewhere or something *grins*

*has an incredible urge to log in, but cannot do that at work*


Dez Erichs
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2007.07.25 13:59:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Dez Erichs on 25/07/2007 14:05:23
Here's another list:

Notes:
- The nice thing about these skills is that they will help you, no matter what ship you fly
- Training of the next level of a skill takes roughly 4x as long as the last level, so it takes
relatively little time to train everything to level 3.
- Listed in decreasing importance
- Skills in italics are secondary but nice to have
- I recommend having all of them (never know when they may come in handy)

Learning:
Learning
Basic Learnings (Charisma is optional)
Advanced Learnings (Charisma is optional)
Cybernetics (implants are GOOD!)
Infomorph Psychology (Jumpclones are nice to have)

Engineering:
Engineering
Energy Systems Operation
Energy Management
Shield Operation (every ship has shields)
Shield Management
Energy Grid Upgrades


Navigation: (applies to every ship)
Navigation
Warp Drive Operation
Evasive Maneuvering
Afterburner + Fuel Conservation (ABs)
High Speed Maneuvering (MWDs)
Acceleration Control (ABs and MWDs)


Mechanic:
Hull Upgrades (every ship has armour)
Mechanic (every ship has hull)
Jury Rigging + Rigging skills

Electronics:
Electronics
Long Range Targeting
Signature Analysis
Targeting


Special cases: (groups of skills that may not apply to everyone)

Drones: (Gallente, and needed for flying battlecruisers and larger ships well)
Drones
Drone Interfacing
Scout Drone Operation
Combat Drone Operation
Drone Durability
Drone Interfacing
Drone Navigation
Heavy Drone Operation
Sentry Drone Operation
Repair Drone Operation
Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing


Turrets: (All races, optional for Caldari)
Gunnery
Weapon Upgrages
Advanced Weapon Upgrades
Controlled Bursts
Motion Prediction
Rapid Firing
Sharpshooter
Surgical Strike
Trajectory Analysis


Missiles: (Caldari, optional for Minmatar)
Missile Launcher Operation
Weapon Upgrades
Advanced Weapon Upgrades
Missile Bombardment
Missile Projection
Rapid Launch
Guided Missile Precision
Target Navigation Prediction
Warhead Upgrades


Armour Tanking: (You do have Hull Upgrades 4+, right?)
Repair Systems
armour compensation skills (EM optional)

Shield Tanking: (got Shield Management and Shield Operation at 4+, right?)
Tactical Shield Manipulation
shield compensation skills (Explosive optional)

PvP: (optional, but useful)
Energy Emission Systems
Energy Pulse Weapons
Shield Emission Systems
Remote Repair Systems
Energy Emission Systems


Leadership: (You did want to give/get gang bonuses, didn't you?)
Leadership
Wing Command
warfare gang lead skills

EWAR Skills: (may depend on your preferred race)
Propulsion Jamming
Electronics Upgrades
Electronic Warfare
Frequency Modulation
Long Distance Jamming
Sensor Linking + Signal Suppresion (Gallente)
Electronic Warfare + Signal Dispersion (Caldari)
Target Painting + Signature Focusing (Minmatar)
Weapon Disruption + Turret Destabilization (Amarr)

PvE: (missioning w/ Kestrel -> Caracal -> Drake -> Raven)
Caldari Frigate/Cruiser/Battleship
see above missile skills, shield tanking, drone skills
Science (tractor beams)
Salvaging

Trade, Manufacturing, Researching, Inventing:
Maybe later, this took longer than expected! Wink

Denizo Kai
Posted - 2007.07.25 16:30:00 - [20]
 

Thanks for the info.

Pyrokinetic
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.07.25 18:15:00 - [21]
 

Wouldn't maxing out "learning" first be most beneficial in time spent learning skills?

Harkwyth Mist
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.07.25 18:41:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Pyrokinetic
Wouldn't maxing out "learning" first be most beneficial in time spent learning skills?


In theory yes, but maxed learnings takes around 3 months (ish) to train, so it's a long time to go without boosting other equally usefull skills.

the basic Int, Mem, Will & Perc to L4 only takes a few days
you'll only need Charisma if you plan on lots of social, trade or corp skills
the Advanced learning books cost 4m+ a piece, so you'll need to run a few missions before aquiring those.

Evemon is a really REALLY helpful utility, download it, install it, enjoy the maximised training schedules.

Pang Grohl
Posted - 2007.07.25 18:56:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Pyrokinetic
Wouldn't maxing out "learning" first be most beneficial in time spent learning skills?


To maximize skill points, yes. To have fun, no.

Learning skills only affect how fast you accrue skill points. They don't give you access to new features or enhance your playing.

When training up learning skills will reduce the time spent training a skill when you account for the time spent on the learning skills, it's worth it.


 

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