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blankseplocked [CAP4U] Capital Productions Unified IPO - Payout today
 
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.07.13 17:38:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: LaVista Vista on 23/11/2007 19:33:02

We are sold out! Dont send isk!



Table Of Contents:
1] Summary of [CAP4U]
2] Why we believe this will work
3] The Business Plan
4] Statement of Assets
4.1] Current Assets
4.2] Assets needed
5] Full Disclosure of Risks
6] Exit Strategy
7] IPO Phases, Dividends, Market Cap
8] Share Repurchasing Information
9] How to find more info
10] FAQ
11] How to invest


1] Summary of [CAP4U]
First time people heard of us, was when I ran an IPO on behalf of Red Army inc. Sadly everything comes to an end, and so did Red army inc.
Wanting to run on the business myself, I contacted Ricdic, who wanted to help me out. We agreed that I, LaVista Vista, joined his corp, locked down the blueprints, and do all the work from there, for auditing purpose. Also the name of the IPO is named after the holding corp, to create no confusion!

More information on our partnership can be found here

2] Why we believe this will work
With the big war going on, more need for capitals coming up with Revelations 2, we have an interest in the area. Not only can we provide alliances and corps with carriers at market price, but with the large amount of people these days training for capital ships is huge. We want to make sure that we can fill in the demand.
With the rather big profit margin, we are going to go heavily into the field, and become a major force on the market. Due to the fact that it takes a rather big investment do both dreadnaughts and carriers, we wanted to focus on carriers, because of the higher demand due to the fact that more people lose these.


3] The Business Plan
The idea is very simple. We are going to raise ISK for capital bpo’s. The average profit for a carrier is about 200mill. With PE1, you can build one carrier every 11 day.
The average module can bring in 5-10 mill profit. And the average build time is 18 hours at PE1.
We already have a very nice chain of potential buyers, who want to buy a set amount of carriers each month, including modules, for about market price. We thus believe that we have no problems getting the ships and modules off our hands.
The thing about this IPO is that since there’s need for a large cash flow, the more shares sold, the faster the payouts are going to be bigger.
We have connections to major mineral suppliers who will provide us with the amount of minerals we need for running the production, at very good prices, which allows us to make the components at very (!) good prices.

4] Statement of Assets
4.1] Current Assets
1x Thanatos BPO – Me2 Pe1
1x Chimera BPO
1x Capital Drone Bay BPO – ME25
1x Charon
We own all modules BPO’s

4.2] Assets needed
To run the operation I would like to see it in the beginning, we would need:
1x Capital Drone Bay BPO
1x Archon BPO
This will allow us to produce all the most popular carriers.

5] Full Disclosure of Risks
The deal about the partnership with CAP4U and Ricdic is that he owns the corp. So, all the BPO are under his control and locked down. I believe that this is pretty safe. So if this turn out to be a scam, the only thing really I can run with is my own isk, because I can’t run with the BPO’s. Only chance is that Ricdic runs off with the BPO’s.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.07.13 17:39:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: LaVista Vista on 14/07/2007 10:39:06
7] IPO Phases, Dividends and Market Cap
This IPO is going to be interesting. The thing about capital building is that the cash flow needs to be rather big. So the big thing that’s going to decide the faith of this IPO, which can return a lot of isk, is how many shares are sold.
The thing is if we only get BPO’s to support production of 2 ships at any point in time, our return per dividend is going to be low. But if we sell all the shares, the return of investment will be very quick.

We will pay out 100% of all the profit to trough the shares system. As not all shares will be sold the next long time, the isk that will end back up in the corp wallet will go for expansion of the corp.

If w get the majority of our shares sold, a new phase will be opened in case theres a demand. But so far this is still something to be announced and discussed with the public, as that time approach. But as i honestly dont see all 2000 shares to be sold yet, as only 9-10% of all shares have been sold so far.

Total Number of Shares
2000

Shares Allocated for IPO
2000

Price Per Share
10,000,000 (10mill)

Dividend Schedule
Every 33 day

Projected Return per Dividend Payment(%)
This is depends on how many shares are sold. If little amount is sold, it’s not got going to be more than a few %, but if many are sold, we could expect a 10%ish. But we will ALWAYS pay out 6% (As of the 8th July). Once we get another carrier BPO, this will increase to 9%!


8] Share Repurchasing Information
Once we start paying out, it we will buy back shares if people want, for a 95% of the original price. Though we might not have the liquid isk at all times to buy back larger amounts, we will buy back as many shares you might want at any point in time, if you want. But we do prefer if people try and sell them in other ways, like the forum, if there’s a market for it at the time.

9] How to find more info
Being a freelancer programmer in real life, and doing a few projects in regards to stuff like this, im gonna release all relevant information from the API, on a website. Also other ways(RSS), dedicated forum, etc. will be used, if there’s a demand.

10] FAQ
Q: How do I know this isn't a scam?
A: The blueprints will be locked down by Ricdic. If he scams the blueprints, he will ruin his own repuptation.

Q: How do you know you'll be successful?
A: We already have a big chain of customers who are gonna buy our wares. And some will go straight to the market. When our first thanatos went into production, we had already found a buyer, for instance.

Q: Why are you doing this?
A: For the fun of it. I have been doing trading for a while, and wanted to get into the capital market, now that I got more isk, and the big demand.

Q: Will you ever buy back shares?
A: Once we are started, we will buy back shares at a case to case basis. Yet we encourage people to trade the shares on the forums

Q: What if someone War Decs the operation
A: Our freighter is in a noob corp, and I never undock. So the only risk is that I get attacked in low-sec. I of course use scouts, and fly at times where local is close to empty. So the risk is small.


11] How to invest
To invest, send me(LaVista Vista) an email stating how many shares you want, and send me the isk. I will check my evemail at least twice every 24 hours. The shares will be sent from the CEO of the holding corp: Unified

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.07.13 17:40:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: LaVista Vista on 14/07/2007 10:39:51
Edited by: LaVista Vista on 13/07/2007 17:47:21
All who invested in Red Army inc. have been sent their shares accordingly from the new holding corp.
IF you do find a mistake happend(Not likely), do please convo me asap.

Also "Unified" is my alt, running the holding corp, by the same name as this IPO

Unified
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.07.13 17:45:00 - [4]
 

Confirming that this is an alt of LaVista Vista.

Valrandir
Gallente
Distant Thunder
Perihelion Alliance
Posted - 2007.07.13 18:04:00 - [5]
 

What happened with Red Army?

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.07.13 18:11:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Valrandir
What happened with Red Army?


I think i pretty much explained it in post i linked to.
But sadly we had a member leave due to RL stuff, and a few left because of that. They thus merged with a local corp with the same vision that red army had.

Blue Dice
Gallente
Kinley and Dice Technologies
Posted - 2007.07.13 19:50:00 - [7]
 

Seen that Ricdic is backing this up partly i'll have a go and take shares for 20 Shares.

Maybe it would be a good idea to put up an actual sales thread?

ISD Pirlouit


ISD YARR
Posted - 2007.07.13 20:33:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Blue Dice


Maybe it would be a good idea to put up an actual sales thread?


It is a great idea since this forum is mainly for discussing IPO not so much conducting one. You know SEC regulation 234.4 ectc....Wink

Ionia
Advanced Manufacturing
Posted - 2007.07.14 00:27:00 - [9]
 

It isnt clear to me what happened to Red Army shareholders? Were they simply given a refund at IPO price?

Also, I think you should check your facts and your numbers. Your post is talking up capital production and talking about high margins when it is currently the worst time in EVE's history for capital production in terms of both competition and narrow margins due to mineral prices.

I don't think its particularly fair to 'fudge the truth' when talking about the market you'll be operating in because some investors may be investing on the premise that what you're writing about the cap ship market is actually true.

EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
Posted - 2007.07.14 01:37:00 - [10]
 

Hey guys I just want to advise (as per other thread) that I will be backing this venture up. Simply put, all bpo's as purchased will be locked down in the C-R-A corporate hangar. You will recieve shares from the CAP4U holding corp. The main downfall to this setup is that it will take a C-R-A vote to unlock bpo's but rest assured there are a large number of C-R-A investors, who have been apprised of the situation.

With the setup we will have, all capital bpo's will be under lockdown, and the only real things LaVista will have on-hand at any one time, will be his freighter, and the raw mats for each ship.

This means, in the unlikely event of a scam, a good 50%-70% of the corporate assets will be salvagable to reduce loss. It isn't optimal but unfortunately nothing in Eve can be guaranteed 100%.

Now, having said all of that.

I have spent the past week or so having long chats with LaVista via in-game, msn, and teamspeak. He has been using his skills in designing an application for the EBANK currently in design mode (Virgin POST !!!!). Based on the hours upon hours we have spent working on things, chatting, and organising stuff, I would find it extremely unlikely he would scam. I think he shows great character, and is considered trustworthy.

I decided to get his feet wet a bit yesterday, and opened up approx 1.3b worth of personal assets in the corporate hangar (around the same amount he will be working with, of public funds). The goods weren't so much as touched.

So whilst that generally isn't a guarantee, just a simple test, I do believe LaVista is capable of running this project. Whether he has the business sense to pull the profits he expects, is still to be seen. But I don't believe this was ever planned to be a scam operation at all. I have seen some of his numbers, and think the ones listed here may be a little tough to reach, but I do see his plan turning a profit nonetheless.

So as per usual, only invest what you can afford to lose, but when calculating your risk assessment, be aware that the C-R-A corp will have a security buffer in place where a good 50-70% of assets are secured.

I am also happy to handle some autidting as well, or allow an external party into the C-R-A corp to handle auditing of both corporations in one hit Cool



Oh, and say hello to EBANK Ricdic Laughing Please ignore the fact that I am a decapitated head, I will do the job just as well regardless.

EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
Posted - 2007.07.14 01:38:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Ionia
It isnt clear to me what happened to Red Army shareholders? Were they simply given a refund at IPO price?


I will leave the other part for LaVista to explain, but this part. Red Army shareholders had their shares replaced for CAP4U shares. I assume they could have gotten a refund if they had asked but will let LaVista answer the rest Razz

Shadarle
Posted - 2007.07.14 02:21:00 - [12]
 

I'd love to see some more numbers on expected profit from the sales of the ships. Currently I have to say I think you're either fudging numbers or just inexperienced in capital production, but perhaps you have some secret as to how you'd make a great profit from this.

I think many people see a sale of 900 mil or 1 billion isk and think it's great to get 100-200 mil from the sale. Those big numbers blind people to the important number, which is the percentage profit. If your percentage profit is 10-15% on such a sale then you're really wasting your time imo. You can get 10-15% profit on many simple T1 items or just reselling minerals, so why spend all the effort on capital production.

I was in capital production myself and have stopped bothering because the profits dropped a lot. I think investors deserve a lot more details these days to justify investments in a capital ship production IPO.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.07.14 08:40:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Ionia
It isnt clear to me what happened to Red Army shareholders? Were they simply given a refund at IPO price?



No. As i wrote in post #3, all investors have been given the same amount of shares in the new holding corp, as they had in Red Army inc.

Also several times in my old posts i actually posted my numbers. But i just woke up 10 minuts ago, so i will post my numbers in here later.

Ionia
Advanced Manufacturing
Posted - 2007.07.14 11:22:00 - [14]
 

Not trying to cause a fuss.. but someone has to ask this...

Did Red Army shareholders have the option to sell their shares back, or did they vote in favour of this change?

Did C-R-A shareholders vote in favour of this merger of sorts and letting an outside party have access to their isk?

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.07.14 11:29:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: LaVista Vista on 14/07/2007 11:30:03
Originally by: Ionia
Not trying to cause a fuss.. but someone has to ask this...

Did Red Army shareholders have the option to sell their shares back, or did they vote in favour of this change?

Did C-R-A shareholders vote in favour of this merger of sorts and letting an outside party have access to their isk?

1. In this case, there was nothing to vote about really. Either we did a new corp, or paid everything back. The deal about ricdic i think is ONLY in favor of our shareholders! I could maybe have done without. But i think that we both favor from this partnership, which im very happy about. Again, if people wanna sell their shares back, they are more than welcome to contact me, tho i cant promiss that i can buy back all shares atm.

2. First of all, i have, as far as i know, no access to any isk. We still have to sort out roles, which should be done fairly soon. As far as im concerned, Ricdic did do a vote(Im QUITE sure this was described in the first announcment), which seemingly went trough as a yes.

I just did an excel sheet with all my data, which proves my profit projections. Im just getting some second eyes to look at it before they go on the forums, so i can make sure that i did get all the info onto there.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.07.14 11:35:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Shadarle
I'd love to see some more numbers on expected profit from the sales of the ships. Currently I have to say I think you're either fudging numbers or just inexperienced in capital production, but perhaps you have some secret as to how you'd make a great profit from this.

I think many people see a sale of 900 mil or 1 billion isk and think it's great to get 100-200 mil from the sale. Those big numbers blind people to the important number, which is the percentage profit. If your percentage profit is 10-15% on such a sale then you're really wasting your time imo. You can get 10-15% profit on many simple T1 items or just reselling minerals, so why spend all the effort on capital production.

I was in capital production myself and have stopped bothering because the profits dropped a lot. I think investors deserve a lot more details these days to justify investments in a capital ship production IPO.

Im sorry, in my hurry of eating breakfast i forgot this post Crying or Very sad

While you are right. This profit is actually rather about 25% atm.
The profit might not be as big as it have been. But one of the sweet things about capital production is that its small-volume trades, which makes it more likely for you to turn the thing over fairly quickly, without a risk of the market crashing in a matter of hours.

As i said. I will be providing some excel stuff to show the projected profits in a few hours.

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2007.07.14 14:15:00 - [17]
 

It would be good if ricdic replied with his main. Replying with a new character doesn't show that it's him, it only shows that it's a new character.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.07.14 14:19:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Nyphur
It would be good if ricdic replied with his main. Replying with a new character doesn't show that it's him, it only shows that it's a new character.

I can confirm that its in fact Ricdic. I talked to him earlier, and thats indeed ricdic. I know because i do programming against that characters API stuff.

Ionia
Advanced Manufacturing
Posted - 2007.07.14 16:21:00 - [19]
 

I think any major change like this needs shareholder approval, its not exactly what they signed up for. If they vote yes, great, I am not suggesting they wont, but they have rights and they should have the right to make this decision.


LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.07.14 16:40:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Ionia
I think any major change like this needs shareholder approval, its not exactly what they signed up for. If they vote yes, great, I am not suggesting they wont, but they have rights and they should have the right to make this decision.



While i agree with you, i estimated that it would be more of an annoying thing for the shareholders, having to vote about a such thing, rather than just going trough with it. I did this in interest of the shareholders security, and did what several requisted: Having outside auditors.

But next time anything happens, i will do a vote, since it seems to be a must.

Im sorry if people think it was a bad move not to make a vote, but im sure that the outcome will make up for that. For instance we lowered the shares from 2000 to 3000, giving a greater payout for each shareholder, AND increasing security. This is a big deal i think.

Shadarle
Posted - 2007.07.14 16:42:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Shadarle
I'd love to see some more numbers on expected profit from the sales of the ships. Currently I have to say I think you're either fudging numbers or just inexperienced in capital production, but perhaps you have some secret as to how you'd make a great profit from this.

I think many people see a sale of 900 mil or 1 billion isk and think it's great to get 100-200 mil from the sale. Those big numbers blind people to the important number, which is the percentage profit. If your percentage profit is 10-15% on such a sale then you're really wasting your time imo. You can get 10-15% profit on many simple T1 items or just reselling minerals, so why spend all the effort on capital production.

I was in capital production myself and have stopped bothering because the profits dropped a lot. I think investors deserve a lot more details these days to justify investments in a capital ship production IPO.

Im sorry, in my hurry of eating breakfast i forgot this post Crying or Very sad

While you are right. This profit is actually rather about 25% atm.
The profit might not be as big as it have been. But one of the sweet things about capital production is that its small-volume trades, which makes it more likely for you to turn the thing over fairly quickly, without a risk of the market crashing in a matter of hours.

As i said. I will be providing some excel stuff to show the projected profits in a few hours.



I look forward to seeing your numbers, but I would very much question you about the "more likely for you to turn the thing over fairly quickly" part.

How exactly is something that takes 2-3 weeks to build easy to turn over in a few hours? You need to buy up all the minerals, then build all the cap parts (takes about as long if not longer than the ship itself to build in some cases), and then build the ship 10+ days. That's a 14-20 day affair depending how many component BPO's you have. I hardly think a 14-20 day lag time between purchasing minerals and getting money for them is quick. Any other item you have a couple of days at most between buying minerals and selling the item. And with T1 items the price really doesn't change all that quickly in MOST cases.

When I was in capital production I had 3-4 of some of the component BPO's so I could drop that turnaround time substantially. I didn't want to wait weeks to build the parts. Of course it cost me an extra 15 billion to get em all... but that's another story. Another bonus is I made a profit on every one of those that I sold later Razz The point is tho that it costs a lot of money to speed up cap production.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.07.14 16:59:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Shadarle
I'd love to see some more numbers on expected profit from the sales of the ships. Currently I have to say I think you're either fudging numbers or just inexperienced in capital production, but perhaps you have some secret as to how you'd make a great profit from this.

I think many people see a sale of 900 mil or 1 billion isk and think it's great to get 100-200 mil from the sale. Those big numbers blind people to the important number, which is the percentage profit. If your percentage profit is 10-15% on such a sale then you're really wasting your time imo. You can get 10-15% profit on many simple T1 items or just reselling minerals, so why spend all the effort on capital production.

I was in capital production myself and have stopped bothering because the profits dropped a lot. I think investors deserve a lot more details these days to justify investments in a capital ship production IPO.

Im sorry, in my hurry of eating breakfast i forgot this post Crying or Very sad

While you are right. This profit is actually rather about 25% atm.
The profit might not be as big as it have been. But one of the sweet things about capital production is that its small-volume trades, which makes it more likely for you to turn the thing over fairly quickly, without a risk of the market crashing in a matter of hours.

As i said. I will be providing some excel stuff to show the projected profits in a few hours.



I look forward to seeing your numbers, but I would very much question you about the "more likely for you to turn the thing over fairly quickly" part.

How exactly is something that takes 2-3 weeks to build easy to turn over in a few hours? You need to buy up all the minerals, then build all the cap parts (takes about as long if not longer than the ship itself to build in some cases), and then build the ship 10+ days. That's a 14-20 day affair depending how many component BPO's you have. I hardly think a 14-20 day lag time between purchasing minerals and getting money for them is quick. Any other item you have a couple of days at most between buying minerals and selling the item. And with T1 items the price really doesn't change all that quickly in MOST cases.

When I was in capital production I had 3-4 of some of the component BPO's so I could drop that turnaround time substantially. I didn't want to wait weeks to build the parts. Of course it cost me an extra 15 billion to get em all... but that's another story. Another bonus is I made a profit on every one of those that I sold later Razz The point is tho that it costs a lot of money to speed up cap production.

As late as today, i got a new contract. I used to buy all my components from theforge. But i now get deliever all the components i need(Thats all but the dronebay BPO, which i produce myself).
So the time it takes for me to build components needed will reach 1-2 days AT VERY MAX. I always try to time it so that i can put the bpo back in production inside 12 hours.

Also i seem to be able to find a buyer pretty quickly. When i put the thanatos im building into production, i already had a buyer, and had several people interested.

So while i see your point, time is not a big issue here.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.07.14 17:15:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: LaVista Vista on 14/07/2007 17:26:46
I mashed together an excel sheet with all my data.
If you want to see them, contact me ingame, and ill mail you them.

Ionia
Advanced Manufacturing
Posted - 2007.07.14 18:01:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
Edited by: LaVista Vista on 14/07/2007 17:26:46
I mashed together an excel sheet with all my data.
If you want to see them, contact me ingame, and ill mail you them.


As we discussed in game, I have a few problems with your calculations.. this comes down to the difference between theory and practice (That is, in theory there is no difference between theory and practise, but in practise there is).

If any of my assumptions, or assumptions about your assumptions are wrong, I assume you will post back to correct them.

Problems I see...

1) You are using perfect build prices for the modules. This is obviously not going to be the case.

2) You are assuming you will be building and selling the modules non-stop.. 39 of each per month according to your spreadsheet. I can tell you from experience this will definately not be the case, the sales volume will be much much lower.

3) Mineral prices are based on market average in Jita. When dealing with capitals, volume is the name of the game, and volume minerals are expensive. The actual costs will be much higher.

4) You have based your capital component costs based on mineral prices yet you dont have the BPOs. To buy these it usually costs you around 1-1.5m per unit above build cost.

5) You assume 3 carriers built per month when realistically it will be 2 in most months and 3 in others.

6) You sales prices are way above the market value, in this very flooded market.

7) Your profits are 60% modules and 40% ships. In my practise, I count the ship profits as the profits and the module profits (because they are fairly minimal) as balance against things like having to buy mins above market price (due to quantity issues) and things of that nature. Basically I don't count them at all.

8) Your spreadsheet assumes that all of the BPOs are free. They have to be taken into account when working out the return on your investment. They cost a lot of isk.

Now, I hope I'm not being too hard on you, but I'll do a rough example..

Your Chimera is listed at 960m sale price which gives around 220m profit. If you adjust that number to market price of about 925m then your profit drops to 185m. If you then take into accout the cost of buying the components on top of mineral prices.. say at 1m each, with 131 components that drops the profits down to 54m.

Basically I think your forecasts have many very small assumptions that will fall over and they all add up to a large effect. The main one definately is the module sales profits though.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.07.14 18:11:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Ionia
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Edited by: LaVista Vista on 14/07/2007 17:26:46
I mashed together an excel sheet with all my data.
If you want to see them, contact me ingame, and ill mail you them.


As we discussed in game, I have a few problems with your calculations.. this comes down to the difference between theory and practice (That is, in theory there is no difference between theory and practise, but in practise there is).

If any of my assumptions, or assumptions about your assumptions are wrong, I assume you will post back to correct them.

Problems I see...

1) You are using perfect build prices for the modules. This is obviously not going to be the case.

2) You are assuming you will be building and selling the modules non-stop.. 39 of each per month according to your spreadsheet. I can tell you from experience this will definately not be the case, the sales volume will be much much lower.

3) Mineral prices are based on market average in Jita. When dealing with capitals, volume is the name of the game, and volume minerals are expensive. The actual costs will be much higher.

4) You have based your capital component costs based on mineral prices yet you dont have the BPOs. To buy these it usually costs you around 1-1.5m per unit above build cost.

5) You assume 3 carriers built per month when realistically it will be 2 in most months and 3 in others.

6) You sales prices are way above the market value, in this very flooded market.

7) Your profits are 60% modules and 40% ships. In my practise, I count the ship profits as the profits and the module profits (because they are fairly minimal) as balance against things like having to buy mins above market price (due to quantity issues) and things of that nature. Basically I don't count them at all.

8) Your spreadsheet assumes that all of the BPOs are free. They have to be taken into account when working out the return on your investment. They cost a lot of isk.

Now, I hope I'm not being too hard on you, but I'll do a rough example..

Your Chimera is listed at 960m sale price which gives around 220m profit. If you adjust that number to market price of about 925m then your profit drops to 185m. If you then take into accout the cost of buying the components on top of mineral prices.. say at 1m each, with 131 components that drops the profits down to 54m.

Basically I think your forecasts have many very small assumptions that will fall over and they all add up to a large effect. The main one definately is the module sales profits though.


1) These are numbers i get from ingame. So its fine
2) I also write that it depends on the sales. Anybody with a brain can figure that.
3) But these are checked that i can get high volumes of.
4) No. All but the dronebay BPO is based on a contract i have with a third party
5) This is a good point. But as written, i pay out every 33 day, which is around the time it takes to build 3 carriers, tho hauling could take time. If so, the isk not paid out for a sale that went 1 day over estimate, will go into next payout.
6) That is a valid point.
7) Im not sure where you wanna go with thats.
8) But what matters is actually what is paid out to the shareholders, against what they invested, right?

The majority of contracts ingame is about 950-960. So whats your point?

In regards to the modules forecast you assume that i have a full production, and sell them all at that price. And you, just aswell as i(And i even wrote it in the sheet i believe) know they we cant produce nor sell 24/7. Those are theoretical, and will vary.

Ionia
Advanced Manufacturing
Posted - 2007.07.14 18:39:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista

1) These are numbers i get from ingame. So its fine
2) I also write that it depends on the sales. Anybody with a brain can figure that.
3) But these are checked that i can get high volumes of.
4) No. All but the dronebay BPO is based on a contract i have with a third party
5) This is a good point. But as written, i pay out every 33 day, which is around the time it takes to build 3 carriers, tho hauling could take time. If so, the isk not paid out for a sale that went 1 day over estimate, will go into next payout.
6) That is a valid point.
7) Im not sure where you wanna go with thats.
8) But what matters is actually what is paid out to the shareholders, against what they invested, right?

The majority of contracts ingame is about 950-960. So whats your point?

In regards to the modules forecast you assume that i have a full production, and sell them all at that price. And you, just aswell as i(And i even wrote it in the sheet i believe) know they we cant produce nor sell 24/7. Those are theoretical, and will vary.


1) My mistake, those numbers are ME0 build not perfect build, so I retract that point.

2) I know you wrote that it depends on sales, but if a forecast, no matter how theoretical, attributes over 60% of the profits coming from something that may bring in 10% of them, that should be pointed out. Assumptions must be realistic, not just the best possible scenario.

3) I'm not sure here, I asked you in game and you said you used the average price in Jita. So ???

4) Ok, if you have a contract for those at that price, great. Again, this was based off information I asked you in game.

5) Ok, 33 day payouts are good. But youll only build them in that time if you research PE to 1 on the prints. Are you actually going to do that? (hint: not a particularly good use of time). If they are at PE0 then the build time is around 11.5 days each, and with changeovers etc etc 12 days is the time most people use, so that would push it out to 36 days.

6) We're in agreement so nothing to say here :)

7) Basically its the same as the point I made above, forecasting the theoretical profits here doesnt work because of the market demand. You attribute the bulk of your profits to modules when they will only compromise a small percentage in reality.

8) So no shareholder isk is being used to purchase BPOs and there was no BPO for share exchanges? If so, and the corporation is in fact getting totally free bpos, then excellent :)

About the contract prices.. forum/channel/private sale prices are lower, obviously, and contract prices have to be higher because there are extra fees to pay (20m on a 1b contract is the base amount, reduced with skills and standings)

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.07.14 18:52:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: LaVista Vista on 14/07/2007 19:03:05
Edited by: LaVista Vista on 14/07/2007 18:52:01
Originally by: Ionia
Originally by: LaVista Vista

1) These are numbers i get from ingame. So its fine
2) I also write that it depends on the sales. Anybody with a brain can figure that.
3) But these are checked that i can get high volumes of.
4) No. All but the dronebay BPO is based on a contract i have with a third party
5) This is a good point. But as written, i pay out every 33 day, which is around the time it takes to build 3 carriers, tho hauling could take time. If so, the isk not paid out for a sale that went 1 day over estimate, will go into next payout.
6) That is a valid point.
7) Im not sure where you wanna go with thats.
8) But what matters is actually what is paid out to the shareholders, against what they invested, right?

The majority of contracts ingame is about 950-960. So whats your point?

In regards to the modules forecast you assume that i have a full production, and sell them all at that price. And you, just aswell as i(And i even wrote it in the sheet i believe) know they we cant produce nor sell 24/7. Those are theoretical, and will vary.


1) My mistake, those numbers are ME0 build not perfect build, so I retract that point.

2) I know you wrote that it depends on sales, but if a forecast, no matter how theoretical, attributes over 60% of the profits coming from something that may bring in 10% of them, that should be pointed out. Assumptions must be realistic, not just the best possible scenario.

3) I'm not sure here, I asked you in game and you said you used the average price in Jita. So ???

4) Ok, if you have a contract for those at that price, great. Again, this was based off information I asked you in game.

5) Ok, 33 day payouts are good. But youll only build them in that time if you research PE to 1 on the prints. Are you actually going to do that? (hint: not a particularly good use of time). If they are at PE0 then the build time is around 11.5 days each, and with changeovers etc etc 12 days is the time most people use, so that would push it out to 36 days.

6) We're in agreement so nothing to say here :)

7) Basically its the same as the point I made above, forecasting the theoretical profits here doesnt work because of the market demand. You attribute the bulk of your profits to modules when they will only compromise a small percentage in reality.

8) So no shareholder isk is being used to purchase BPOs and there was no BPO for share exchanges? If so, and the corporation is in fact getting totally free bpos, then excellent :)

About the contract prices.. forum/channel/private sale prices are lower, obviously, and contract prices have to be higher because there are extra fees to pay (20m on a 1b contract is the base amount, reduced with skills and standings)

1) Fine :)
2) Thats a fair point, and i will remember that.
3) Define average. It depends on how you find it. You can use the interface that shows for each day. But the way i find my average, is that i see what kind of huge orders there is, and usually they are about the same price. Theres my average.
4) As far as i remember, i didnt tell you that i build the components myself but the dronebay.
5) Well, i of course cant promise that i will be able to do all 3(And i think i wrote this) carriers each month. But if they dont get paid out one month, they will go into next month.
6) :)
8) Thats exactly what the shareholder money is going into, BPO's. But it doesnt matter if the isk is liquid of if they are invested into a BPO. They still invested 10mill, and they still get the same payout as all other shares.

Shadarle
Posted - 2007.07.14 19:25:00 - [28]
 

I'm curious... if you are actually spending time researching PE1 (Which I hope for your shareholders sake you don't), then what is the ME on those BPO's?

I can't see how it is possibly worth getting PE1 on any cap BPO instead of getting another ME or even making copy in that time instead. Unless you happened to acquire BPO's with a very high ME, 4-5 or more, then it seems like ME is a much better route than PE.

I would like to get a look at that spreadsheet, ill contact you in-game when i can log in again later.

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2007.07.14 19:38:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Nyphur
It would be good if ricdic replied with his main. Replying with a new character doesn't show that it's him, it only shows that it's a new character.

I can confirm that its in fact Ricdic. I talked to him earlier, and thats indeed ricdic. I know because i do programming against that characters API stuff.

Not that I don't trust you but you can't guarantee your guarantor. It's your venture Ricdic is endorsing, so you can't really be the one to guarantee that he is the same person as that alt. Can Ricdic not post with his main for some reason?

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.07.14 19:48:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Nyphur
It would be good if ricdic replied with his main. Replying with a new character doesn't show that it's him, it only shows that it's a new character.

I can confirm that its in fact Ricdic. I talked to him earlier, and thats indeed ricdic. I know because i do programming against that characters API stuff.

Not that I don't trust you but you can't guarantee your guarantor. It's your venture Ricdic is endorsing, so you can't really be the one to guarantee that he is the same person as that alt. Can Ricdic not post with his main for some reason?

I guess he could. But last time i spoke to him(8 odd hours ago), he went home from work with a day bug. But ill get him to respond with his main.


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