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blankseplocked Report: How the Lofty29 scam works (with pictures)
 
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Akurion
Gallente
Master Miners
Posted - 2007.07.08 18:50:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Akurion on 10/07/2007 15:11:15
[Edit: People have asked if I think this is an exploit or not. Just to be clear, yes I do. To make this scam work, all you have to do is get someone to join a group. That's it. If they join your alt's group, you have free reign to gank them in hi-sec. I don't believe CCP intended CONCORD to be so easily circumscribed.]

While it's probably wishful thinking to believe that anyone who might actually fall for this scam reads the C&P boards, maybe someone will see this and be spared.

When Lofty posted about his adventures in Dodixie the other day, I felt obligated as an anti-pirate to investigate how it works, and if possible set a counter-trap for him. After analyzing how he does it, I've concluded that there is probably no reasonable way short of declaring war on his corp to stop him, even in the act. As far as Concorde is concerned, his piracy is completely legal.

Here's how:

For those who don't already know, the scam takes place in Dodixie, a .9 system in Sinq Laison. While any hi-sec system will do, Dodixie has some very lucrative agents and many missions take place in the system itself. As such Dodixie is filled with hi-sec dwellers who fly fantastically well-fitted ships. Those are his marks.

Lofty sets the trap in a safespot, no so much because he needs isolation but because he doesn't want people catching on to what he's doing.

Lofty's safe spot. (More on the Exequror later.)

Meanwhile, one of Lofty's partners (probably an alt, but that's impossible to verify) sits around outside the main station in Dodixie, looking for a valuable mark. The alt (in this case, a Raven pilot named David Koresch) has a passive targetter, a ship scanner, and probably a cargo scanner as well. When he finds a mission runner who has some valuable mods, he strikes up a conversation.

The bait tells the mark that he needs help running a mission, and probably offers some reward if successful. If the mark agrees to help, the bait invites him to his gang, and they both warp to Lofty29's location.

Here's where the scam comes in. While the two are in warp to their 'mission,' the bait invites a third person, again probably one of Lofty's alts. This alt is in a small corporation at war with Lofty's corp, Infinitus Odium. Once that character joins the gang, the bait becomes a valid war target for Lofty.

A quick search reveals that Infinitus Odium is at war with only one corporation, Latrocinium Inc. Compare their corp icons.

Privately funded mercenaries, indeed.

Once the bait and the mark arrive at Lofty's position, he goes to work with his Dominix. Since he already knows what the other ship is fitted with, the fight usually isn't in any doubt. If all else fails, he can just warp away, since he knows his victim doesn't have a warp scrambler.

And if things go really wrong, he's got his friend we saw earlier, the Exequror pilot. Since no laws are being broken in the fight, the Exequror can come back and provide some remote armor-repping.

Eventually the bait dies, and Lofty scoops up the loot. In this particular case, it was about 900m worth of faction mods.

The scam works because the victim joins a person in an NPC corp to run a mission. He never gets a warning about gang members being in a war because the gang leader doesn't invite the at-war character until they're already in warp to Lofty's location. The mark doesn't realize what's happening until Lofty opens fire, and by then it's too late.

IMHO, this is more than just a scam; it's a circumvention of the gang/war mechanics. I never understood why joining a gang made you vulnerable to such attacks, but that is how CCP wants it I guess.

To my fellow anti-pirates; I can't see any way to break or counter-trap this scam. If you do, I wish you the best.


Logi3
Posted - 2007.07.08 18:58:00 - [2]
 

Nice one Lofty :)

LMAAAOOOO
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:02:00 - [3]
 

Thanks for sharing, but to be honest, this looks like an exploit.

Namingway
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:04:00 - [4]
 

It's so tempting to do this...

Horza Otho
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:08:00 - [5]
 

I must be the only person other then lofty who knew how lofty did this, it aint hard to figure out for yourself. Rolling Eyes

Stakhanov
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:11:00 - [6]
 

Welcome to last year ? Razz

Faekurias
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:13:00 - [7]
 

I love these things! do more of them :D

Wardog 1
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:15:00 - [8]
 

Well damn I'd have told you that if you asked, everyone knows how its done :p

Akurion
Gallente
Master Miners
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:18:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Wardog 1
Well damn I'd have told you that if you asked, everyone knows how its done :p


Obviously not everyone, if people are falling for it still.

That said, the people who are falling for it a) don't read this board, and b) even if they were aware of it, the only way to avoid falling for this is to never join anyone's gang.

As I said earlier, this seems like more than just a scam; it's an abuse of the war mechanic.

Zhett Haukes
Mutually Assured Distraction
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:20:00 - [10]
 

Wow, what a great pirating technique...

*grinds up sec status*.

I guess not trusting anyone still holds in highsec too. My paranoid nature always comes in useful.

lofty29
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:24:00 - [11]
 

OH NOES! PEOPLE KNOW!!!!11!11
Does it matter? Confused

lofty29
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:30:00 - [12]
 

Ok a few things Very HappyVery Happy

Quote:
A quick search reveals that Infinitus Odium is at war with only one corporation, Latrocinium Inc. Compare their corp icons.
The similarity in the icons is quite remarkable actually. I made the corporation 6 months ago to house my alts so that I could have some fun deccing people in Hi-Sec, which I did. I didn't copy the INFOD logo, that's just coincidence Laughing

Quote:
And if things go really wrong, he's got his friend we saw earlier, the Exequror pilot. Since no laws are being broken in the fight, the Exequror can come back and provide some remote armor-repping.
Seriously? I dont even know the guy. He warped to my safe twice and I asked what he was doing. I assumed he had caught onto what I was doing and was gonna try to steal loot, but he told me he was just testing out mission-runner probing.

Quote:
(Side note: I made the foolish mistake at this point of trying to scoop up the loot myself, to return to the victim. Since I'm playing via satellite from Afghanistan my latency is pretty high, and by the time I got the wreck open the loot was gone. Instead I just ended up decloaking and blowing my cover. My apologies to the victim.)
YARR! YARRRR!!

That is all Cool

Akurion
Gallente
Master Miners
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:31:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: lofty29
OH NOES! PEOPLE KNOW!!!!11!11
Does it matter? Confused


I can see two possible outcomes to this tactic being more widely known.

The first (being the most ideal and yet also the most unlikely) is that people will be more careful, and hopefully avoid this scam. However, since it's so easy, and would basically require people to stop being nice to strangers (part of human nature, it seems), I don't foresee this happening.

The second, and more likely, is that more and more people will start doing this for themselves, since obviously it's a way to obtain fabulous wealth in a short period (what's your total for this week? 3.3 billion?). Eventually, like most loopholes, CCP will close it, and the hi-sec pirates will be back to can-flipping and ore theft.

As for myself, I don't have any particular goal. I just like writing things like this, and didn't want to let an evening of effort go to waste (once it became apparently that there was no legal way to destroy your ship even after you started the scam).

Fly safe!

Shaji
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:31:00 - [14]
 

I think you helped educate new pirates rather than stop this from happening, but nice little guide anyways ;)

Akurion
Gallente
Master Miners
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:33:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: lofty29


Quote:
And if things go really wrong, he's got his friend we saw earlier, the Exequror pilot. Since no laws are being broken in the fight, the Exequror can come back and provide some remote armor-repping.
Seriously? I dont even know the guy. He warped to my safe twice and I asked what he was doing. I assumed he had caught onto what I was doing and was gonna try to steal loot, but he told me he was just testing out mission-runner probing.


Well, I just assumed he was working with you. I mean, what are the chances that not one, but two people working independently will both warp to a single pilot's safespot?

Still, good to know. I'll write his name down for later.

Chronos VIII
Amarr
Cataclysm Enterprises
Ev0ke
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:35:00 - [16]
 

i know lofty - im special! Laughing

lofty29
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:37:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Shaji
I think you helped educate new pirates rather than stop this from happening, but nice little guide anyways ;)
Indeed, that's what I thought. Most people end up dying while doing this anyway cus they don't fully understand it Laughing I guess I'll just have to ***** the next two days uber-hard in the hope that nobodys wardec goes through before then Very Happy

lofty29
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:38:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Akurion
Well, I just assumed he was working with you. I mean, what are the chances that not one, but two people working independently will both warp to a single pilot's safespot?

Its called probes. Also my PC would melt if I had 4 accounts running Very Happy

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:39:00 - [19]
 

Welcome to one year ago! Laughing

Akurion
Gallente
Master Miners
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:43:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Akurion on 08/07/2007 19:42:54
Originally by: lofty29
Originally by: Akurion
Well, I just assumed he was working with you. I mean, what are the chances that not one, but two people working independently will both warp to a single pilot's safespot?

Its called probes. Also my PC would melt if I had 4 accounts running Very Happy


Yes, probes are awesome. However, there were more than 30 pilots in space, including at least a half a dozen dominixes. I just guessed yours was the one with the latin name.

Anyway, do people warp in on you frequently? Random people, that is. Not your victims.

Victor Vision
Amarr
Central Intelligence Service
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:50:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Victor Vision on 08/07/2007 19:53:32
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Welcome to one year ago! Laughing


My thoughts precisely.


But kudos to the OP anyways. Well written post.

JoeT
Amarr
Quantum Horizons
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:52:00 - [22]
 

thats old news....

lofty even said this himself a while back lol

lofty29
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.07.08 19:55:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Akurion
Edited by: Akurion on 08/07/2007 19:42:54
Originally by: lofty29
Originally by: Akurion
Well, I just assumed he was working with you. I mean, what are the chances that not one, but two people working independently will both warp to a single pilot's safespot?

Its called probes. Also my PC would melt if I had 4 accounts running Very Happy


Yes, probes are awesome. However, there were more than 30 pilots in space, including at least a half a dozen dominixes. I just guessed yours was the one with the latin name.

Anyway, do people warp in on you frequently? Random people, that is. Not your victims.

No, thats the first one I've ever seen. What a coincidence! Shocked

Kirex
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.07.08 20:13:00 - [24]
 

yea this is old news. Congrats to lofty though. :)

How much isk do you have lofty? ;p

Reverend Revelator
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.07.08 20:17:00 - [25]
 

Oh no! It's dejavu all over again!

DarkElf
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.07.08 20:20:00 - [26]
 

Everyone should really know that you don't join someone's gang unless u trust them. As far as i'm concerned it's not the most 'honorable' way to gain kills but there's nothing wrong with it and anyone who joins someone's gang who they don't know in such an expensive ship deserves to die.


DE



T'Renn
Silver Snake Enterprise
Posted - 2007.07.08 20:24:00 - [27]
 

To the OP: I see you put a lot of work into this. Lurking moar would have saved you the trouble. Lofty's methods haven't been a secret in a loooooong time. I happen to think it's genius.

To Lofty: David Koresch? Does that mean it was you who would pass through RK space when I was trying to rat my sec up? You should have stopped and chatted for longer Very Happy

lofty29
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.07.08 20:25:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: T'Renn
To the OP: I see you put a lot of work into this. Lurking moar would have saved you the trouble. Lofty's methods haven't been a secret in a loooooong time. I happen to think it's genius.

To Lofty: David Koresch? Does that mean it was you who would pass through RK space when I was trying to rat my sec up? You should have stopped and chatted for longer Very Happy


Laughing Yarr I passed through. I was ratting my own sec up!

Taipan Gedscho
Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.
Posted - 2007.07.08 20:33:00 - [29]
 

yup old news. and imho a sad story.

no offense, lofty, props to you for executing this maneuver so well, but imho its a killer for the WHOLE pve part of eve. dont come to me telling me eve is a pvp game. eve is a game, and it has a pve part too, and no matter how sucky it may be, this game is what people want it to be.

be it "space wall street manager" or "zero G counterstrike" its their decision. and the "intergalactic diablo" part is seriously broken.

why?

because your mark has no way of saving himself, instead of not grouping up with strangers. thus killing the whole mmorpg pve thing.

again, well executed (a target with nearly no chance of survival, phat loot, and everything in a rather secure environment? thats genious!) but its lame for the pve'ers.

not loftys fault but ccps. afaik not even considered exploiting... but.. am i the only one that thinks, this destroys the pve part?

MASTERZULU
Caldari
Bushido Shoshinshu
Posted - 2007.07.08 20:40:00 - [30]
 

Lofty ate my hamster Twisted Evil


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