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Phantom Kinetics
Posted - 2007.06.27 03:53:00 - [1]
 

I'm sitting in a station right now, hiding from the authorities that may be after me. I used an energy/shield transfer on a ship, not in my gang, that had just been attacked. Though the other player says he does not see an aggression timer, one has shown up on my screen. Is this a bug/something that should go in a petition or is using a module on someone not in my gang always going to flag me? And if so, how come he doesn't have an aggression timer?

GC13
Caldari
Species 5618
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2007.06.27 05:09:00 - [2]
 

You should be fine. The only reason CONCORD will waste you for healing someone is if they were busy trying to kill that person while you did it. The aggression timer is just in case they had anyone they were at war with; anyone allowed to shoot them is allowed to shoot you while that timer is up.

NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
Posted - 2007.06.27 10:24:00 - [3]
 

Hiding from Concord is a bannable offense. Just thought i would let you know

Dotard
Minmatar
Kernel of War
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.06.27 12:52:00 - [4]
 

Which is stupid. Hiding/surviving Concord should be a valid tactic.

It is acceptable to tank sentrys, which is the same as 'surviving' Concord.

If surviving the game mechanics is such a bannable/offensive (offensive as in; "phew! That stinks!) then dang-it, up the sentrys DPS or numbers to make them just as uber as Concord ships.

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2007.06.27 13:01:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Dotard
Which is stupid. Hiding/surviving Concord should be a valid tactic.

It is acceptable to tank sentrys, which is the same as 'surviving' Concord.

If surviving the game mechanics is such a bannable/offensive (offensive as in; "phew! That stinks!) then dang-it, up the sentrys DPS or numbers to make them just as uber as Concord ships.


Evading CONCORD is a bannable offense but good luck pulling that off. I have heard of a few cases where someone managed to evade a CONCORD gank but mostly you are just dead before you have a chance to do much of anything.

To the quoted part CONCORD is different from station guns and such. Think of CONCORD like a galactic United Nations. They do not enforce much "law" but when they do get involved it is presumably with the backing of all constituent governments. Sort of a "super law". If you break those laws the rule is you lose your ship. Period. End of story.

However, if you break "local" laws in a system then it is a matter for the faction police and their gate/station guns to deal with you. In theory doing something "bad" in Amarr space probably thrills the Minmatar government and they'd applaud your efforts. This is not a "universal law" that gets CONCORD...just something to tick off the local government and you are free to fight/evade your way out of it.

Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
Posted - 2007.06.27 13:45:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Ki Tarra on 27/06/2007 17:37:43
Originally by: Phantom Kinetics
And if so, how come he doesn't have an aggression timer?
What likely happened here was that he was at war with whoever attacked him, so no argo timer appeared for him. However, because you are not at war with such people, you will have a temporary argo flag for helping there enemies.

Whenever you help someone, you can be attacked by anyone who could normally attack the person you are helping. Basicly, all that timer does is let you know how much longer you are open to attack.

Criminal flagging is not the same as argo flagging. CONCORD doesn't care who you assist as long as they are not a global criminal. If you assist someone who CONCORD is ganking (or about to gank) then they will come after you as well. Otherwise you will only be flagged to other players

I don't know why people have derailed your thread talking about exploits involving the evation of CONCORD. Yes, it is an exploit to not have your ship destroyed for aiding a criminal, but I don't see you claiming to do that.

If you have an argo timer (with CONCORD or anyone else) you can wait for it to cool off in station, and it is not an exploit in the least.

NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
Posted - 2007.06.27 16:45:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Dotard
Which is stupid. Hiding/surviving Concord should be a valid tactic.

It is acceptable to tank sentrys, which is the same as 'surviving' Concord.

If surviving the game mechanics is such a bannable/offensive (offensive as in; "phew! That stinks!) then dang-it, up the sentrys DPS or numbers to make them just as uber as Concord ships.


And it was at one point. Much like other things that are banned, it was misused and caused a lot of griefing to Empire players. Concord was beefed up and it was considered a bannable offense to evade them. Not much you can do about it except to accept your fate.

Serret Nevets
Gallente
Posted - 2007.06.27 19:30:00 - [8]
 

This debate go's on and on and on and still no official word from a DEVELOPER regarding the suposed "evading Concord" exploit.

If this was a true penalty that you have to loose your ship, then there would be NO way of evading them and this would be a moot debate. Also, if it was an "exploit" CCP would have written code that if you do something to warrent your ships destruction, then it would just automatically blow up. Why waste time effort and real life money paying someone to write all that code for Concord, updating Concord etc, when it would be a heck of a lot more efficient just to make your ship automatically blow up.

Serret Nevets
Gallente
Posted - 2007.06.27 19:31:00 - [9]
 

By the way, who here knows of anyone that was banned for this "exploit"?

Millajov
Posted - 2007.06.27 21:30:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Serret Nevets
This debate go's on and on and on and still no official word from a DEVELOPER regarding the suposed "evading Concord" exploit.

If this was a true penalty that you have to loose your ship, then there would be NO way of evading them and this would be a moot debate. Also, if it was an "exploit" CCP would have written code that if you do something to warrent your ships destruction, then it would just automatically blow up. Why waste time effort and real life money paying someone to write all that code for Concord, updating Concord etc, when it would be a heck of a lot more efficient just to make your ship automatically blow up.


Probably because just having your ship randomly blow up wouldnt make much sense, so they have some force come in and blow you up.

Serret Nevets
Gallente
Posted - 2007.06.28 00:20:00 - [11]
 

In retort, why have the ability and potential to "escape"? Why not fix this "exploit", as so many classify it?

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2007.06.28 01:08:00 - [12]
 

Now, I honestly don't believe that it's possible to escape concord. It's one of those proof or STFU sort of things (for me anyway). This is mainly because in my experience, unless concord is already present (and sometimes even if they are) concord drones jump in/spawn on top of you after a certain amount of time. The longest this is going to take is about 30 seconds in a 0.5 system. Now, it takes a full minute of not having shot anyone to dock or leave a system, that means you'd have to tank concord for a full 30 seconds to dock at a station. Whenever I've had to deal with concord (I have this nasty habit of disposing of old ships I don't need by suicide ganking random people Twisted Evil ) They usually hit me for about 700 damage, each, and they do it fast enough that I lag as much as I do in a small fleet battle, meaning the odds of surviving a concord encounter are pretty much zero.

Concord is coded in such a way that escape isn't really possible, so escaping them would require no less exploiting then finding a way not to take any damage from anything or finding a way to fit battleship guns on a destroyer...

Barashi Nugan
Gallente
Zero Point Group
Posted - 2007.06.28 20:20:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Barashi Nugan on 28/06/2007 20:24:02
Originally by: Serret Nevets
In retort, why have the ability and potential to "escape"? Why not fix this "exploit", as so many classify it?


1. Yes, the Dev's have stated that escaping the wrath of Concord is an exploit. I'm not going to spend 30 minutes looking it up, but it's here on the forums for all to see. Search.

2. The reason Concord works the way it does is to provide a way for kills to occur in Highsec. In a .5 system, Concord is going to take awhile to come and BBQ the offender. This gives the attacker time to gank the other ship before finding themselves bobbing around in a pod. In that way, nowhere is completely safe, even highsec (which is the Dev's intent). The higher the security rating, the faster Concord responds, and there-for the more "safe" you are.

I honestly don't think it's possible anymore to evade Concord once flagged. Even if you try and play cat and mouse, Concord will warp to your new location and will have you scrammed/jammed/roasted in moments.

EDIT: Was thinking about this, and had a possible exception: Cap ships. I know they can't warp into highsec, but some are built within highsec POS arrays (the ones that were grandfathered in before the change). So if a cap ship attacked someone, could they then cyno out before Concord had a chance to respond? Or a related question: when Concord scram's you, would you even be able to jump through a cyno field? Those are the only possible ways I can think of "beating the system".

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.06.29 06:11:00 - [14]
 

your ok it just means (for 15 mins he is also a target)

meaning it stops you form healing someone while they are at war and the war target can't attack you. not that someone is going to attack you. but they have to right to.

also mind you not EVERYONE can attack yo. just people that were allowed to attack the person you helped.


NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
Posted - 2007.06.29 08:51:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Serret Nevets
In retort, why have the ability and potential to "escape"? Why not fix this "exploit", as so many classify it?


Concord's been nerf'd so many times that I don't think they can go back and fix it without a complete rewrite of its code. The potential is there (as another writer above me pointed out) so that ganking in high-sec can happen. This gives the high-sec players something to worry about, rather than just setting autopilot and transporting high amounts of goods risk free. Look at the dev search to find what the devs have stated in the past because they have publicly stated that it is an exploit...believe it or not, your choice.


 

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