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Zanarkand
Gallente
Enterprise Estonia
Cult of War
Posted - 2007.06.21 10:33:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Zanarkand on 21/06/2007 10:34:34
Originally by: Chavu
Minmatars only do one thing better than the other races: speed. That's it.

The Vagabond/Stabber is the only ship that gets a speed bonus.

How many Gallente ships get a drone bonus?

How many Caldari ships get a missile bonus?

How many Amarr ships get a laser cap usage bonus?

We get one ship, okay, ONE SHIP. No speed bonuses on other ships and there are what, like 3 TECH 2 ships that get a falloff bonus? Please.

People fly the Vagabond because it is by far the pinnacle of a hit and run raiding ship. Invention reduced the prices so a lot of people can fly them but guess what, vagabonds die all the time.

Heavy NOS > Vaga
Heavy Neuts > Vaga
Webs > Vaga
Jamming > Vaga
Jamming drones > Vaga
RSD > Vaga

If you want to keep nerfing minmatar's speed then give us an actual role. Going fast, having no tank and doing small amounts of damage is not really overpowering.


Compare it to a Zealot(the supreme Amarr hac!), or deimos, or... ishtar, Cerberus. The Vagabond is just too strong compared to other hacs. It is nearing the point where HACs are made into two groups: Vagabond and Others. Either nerf Vagabond or buff other hacs...

All of those nice things you mentioned have a devastating effect on other hacs as well, except that vagabond can just mwd away and warp off...

majority of the Vaga losses are due to a piloting mistake by the vagabond... Good Vagabond pilots rarely lose their ships... that and they fly Curse/Huginn nowdays...

Trind2222
Amarr
The Red Ring
Posted - 2007.06.21 10:52:00 - [62]
 

How some hints to take down a vaga
Tracking disruptor this will hurt the dps
Jammers will help alot
Heavy nos if he is not carefull pilot
A fast ships

probely more ways to take a vaga

Steve Holt
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2007.06.21 10:55:00 - [63]
 

i was flying around 0.0 i found 4 seperate Vags. None could kill me i couldn't kill them? why, cause i couldn't get in range of a web but they couldnt web me so i just mwded to gate jumped out. A vaga is very useless at gate fighting, also before u say "noobie vaga pilots didnt bump u" if any of them came into my webrange to bump me they would be dead now. so a vaga is only usefullf or killing ratters and fighting someone who wants to fight you.

Milton Keynes
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.06.21 10:56:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Milton Keynes on 21/06/2007 10:55:32
Originally by: Steve Holt
so a vaga is only usefullf or killing ratters and fighting someone who wants to fight you.


Remind you of any other ship which was recently nerfed? Laughing

Trishan
Green Men Incorporated
Posted - 2007.06.21 10:58:00 - [65]
 

This discussion is pointless. The vaga, along other speedy minnie ships, has already been nerfed as posted in other threads. Please stop rubbing salt in the wound :P

Milton Keynes
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.06.21 11:03:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Milton Keynes on 21/06/2007 11:03:10
Originally by: Trind2222
How some hints to take down a vaga


Originally by: Trind2222
Tracking disruptor this will hurt the dps


It gets a tracking bonus...

Originally by: Trind2222
Jammers will help alot


They won't help you "take it down" AT ALL

Originally by: Trind2222
Heavy nos if he is not carefull pilot


Never assume the pilot is stupid. Otherwise you could kill him in an ibis which proves nothing

Originally by: Trind2222
A fast ships


Like what?

Originally by: Trind2222
probely more ways to take a vaga



Nope. Huginn or Rapier.

Or a stupid Vaga pilot ofc Rolling Eyes


And NO, I don't agree that the Vaga needs nerfing. Why? Vaga is a HAC which are supposed to be super specialised ships which ARE overpowered at ONE thing. For the Vaga this is SPEED. You might aswell also nerf the missiles on a Cerberus or the drones on an Ishtar or the lasers on a Zealot...

Nerf <> Balance

Tony Benn
Dawn of War
Posted - 2007.06.21 11:08:00 - [67]
 

The Vagabond is a great, great ship. It is not however overpowered, and surely the OP is taking the mickey with this thread.

If anything was to change on the vagabond though, I'd say it should be a redistribution of resistances. They're VERY good...

Willo Vasquez
Gallente
Raptus Regaliter
Pride - Honor - Duty
Posted - 2007.06.21 11:22:00 - [68]
 

I lost my domi pre RmR, while I was mining in lowsec to a pair of roving vaga's. First thought that went through my head was 'Christ, they're fast' swiftly followed by 'how'd they get into my hull so quick?!'.

To the op - every ship has it's stengths and weaknesses, and I don't think the Vaga's speed tank counts it as being overpowered. Hit them hard enough, they'll pop, just like any other ship.

Krysta Gemme
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2007.06.21 11:26:00 - [69]
 

It seems here some folk have a problem with the Vag.

The Vag is a mysterious thing. Many lust for the Vag. Some fear the Vag. However what all have in common is that we know the Vag is a powerful thing, and can destroy a man if he doesn't know what to do with it.

Approach the Vag carefully, and be careful to be aware of yourself at all times. Do not panic, and pace yourself and soon the Vag will be conquered.

However beware, the Vag can be dangerous. You could hurt yourself, or others if you don't take the proper precautions. Make sure to fit yourself right before every mission, and you will have no problem. Increase your skills and you will be taking down Vag's left and right.

Good luck, hope I helped. :)

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.06.21 11:27:00 - [70]
 

...minnies...complaining about being worst damage dealers...? Shocked

I mean...come on! Very Happy

Souvera Corvus
THE PAROXYSM
Session Changes
Posted - 2007.06.21 11:29:00 - [71]
 

I've died more to this damn ship than any other and when it happens it's usually quick. That said, the guys who have flown them have been bloody good pilots (Yucali and Japana to name two), so I prefer to think along the lines that the Vaga is just deadly in the right hands and as vulnerable as the rest of us in any other. You need plenty of webs and a decent tactical approach to take it down and that takes a bit of brain power I guess Wink

Shi Mun
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2007.06.21 11:31:00 - [72]
 

Refering all the way bk to the OP, there isnt anything wrong with the vagabond and its definitely NOT overpowered. It has speed and it can cause dmg, thats EXATCLY what its SUPPOSED to do.

Khadur
Minmatar
Vigilante inc.
Posted - 2007.06.21 11:39:00 - [73]
 

lolLaughing

Mangold
Mad Bombers
Guns and Alcohol
Posted - 2007.06.21 11:40:00 - [74]
 

Vaga has speed and a decent DPS and no tank. The strength of a Vaga is it's ability to bail out if things goes wrongs. That's about it and there is the reason you find so many roaming in 0.0 and lowsec. It's easy to run if you run into trouble.

They are not that hard to kill if you know what you're doing. A nossed and webbed Vaga dies very fast. I've killed several myself without to much trouble. You just need to know what you're doing.

Silpher
Jita Trade Services
Posted - 2007.06.21 11:46:00 - [75]
 

'The Drake tanks too much!' NERF
'The myrmidon shouldn't shield tank so well!' NERF
'I can't see the AFK cloaker!' (soon to be) NERF!
'War decing so many corps is mean!' NERF

Jesus christ, you people need to stop pushing the momentum of that nerf bat. It's getting old. Everything is counterable, and every day I come on these forums, and some new child is kicking and screaming for a nerf, acting like he know's what the hell he's talking about. I love how the gallente pilot is calling for a nerf on a decent 1v1 PvP ship. Newflash, Gallente are overpowered on the wuantity of PvP ships they posess!! What do I get? The Raven? Torps are slow! The Drake? NERFED! The rook? Hardly among the best. The Manticore? Not anymore! So plz, STOP WHINING!!!

Pinpisa Jormao
Posted - 2007.06.21 11:46:00 - [76]
 

To add to the list of what can be used to kill vaga, Cerberus should be there. In my experience if you want to hit with Vaga you have to go really slow and there's no way to outrun the heavy missiles if you want to kill something at the same time.

The primary reason Vaga is popular is the ability to run away and through camps without proper tackling.

Irob Urore
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2007.06.21 11:48:00 - [77]
 

You gotta give the solo pvpers a ship and i think this is one of those ships, its a real bugger to catch :)

Dark Flare
Caldari
0utbreak
Outbreak.
Posted - 2007.06.22 11:33:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: MehTheTrader
Originally by: MotherMoon
wait... WHAT???

We have the loest dps in the game!!!

plus we relod after 10 shots!

nerf this nerf that

cut the lowest dps race in the game by 30%... bah

take into account reload time you nut job
yes I have done the math on this me and my friend wanted to see what had more dps, and hybirds came out WAY on top
damn him

yes we do more alpha dmg
if you dont' know what that is no more whining for you

shakes head

No duh blasters have more dps, I geuss because they are short range. But they are slow, but minimatar is fast and has GREAT dps comapred to caldari and minimatar. You are quite the noob to be flying minimatar and not know the importance to exp ammo.

Minimatar needs to lose its dps, Gallente needs to lose some speed, Ammar and caldari need some major boosting to put them no par.


lolololololol

Blasters are short range.. yes.
Autocannons are too, you absolue nutter.
EXP ammo on a Vagabond? Well he'll be at 3km then, web and kill.

Barrage is the only ammo to be used in a Vagabond. Which puts you out at 15km.
Doing hardly any DPS.

I like the way you try to be demeaning, and patronising, whilst stating things like "Minmatar has great dps compared to minmatar" and "blasters are close range" (implying that autocannons aren't) and the absolutely brilliant "omg EXP ammo", to which the natural response is "omg.. webifier".

But please, continue to make up facts about races you've never flown, it's certainly entertaining me at work.

Snake Jankins
Minmatar
German Cyberdome Corp
Cult of War
Posted - 2007.06.22 11:37:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Snake Jankins on 22/06/2007 11:45:16
Originally by: Krysta Gemme
It seems here some folk have a problem with the Vag.

The Vag is a mysterious thing. Many lust for the Vag. Some fear the Vag. However what all have in common is that we know the Vag is a powerful thing, and can destroy a man if he doesn't know what to do with it.

Approach the Vag carefully, and be careful to be aware of yourself at all times. Do not panic, and pace yourself and soon the Vag will be conquered.

However beware, the Vag can be dangerous. You could hurt yourself, or others if you don't take the proper precautions. Make sure to fit yourself right before every mission, and you will have no problem. Increase your skills and you will be taking down Vag's left and right.

Good luck, hope I helped. :)
Shocked Well, I admit, I have never seen it this way. Thanks.

Gaven Blands
Caldari
Cosmic Fusion
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2007.06.22 11:44:00 - [80]
 

Win Or Run builds are nothing new.

I just wish the runners didn't have to type "dats wat makes me a pvper and u a carebear" in local as they hit the Mwd+Warp = I don't lose button.

Is it a prerequisite for boarding a Win Or Run ship?

Moonwarrior
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2007.06.22 13:00:00 - [81]
 

Oh my, lets just nerf all ships and .... oh wait , lets just nerf EVE, then we can all hold hands and sing lalalala
Embarassed

Dopple
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.06.22 13:47:00 - [82]
 

The Vigil also gets a speed bonus, with a target painter bonus. I mean come on all the Target painters are acronyms for PWNT, PWN or some such. What will happen when someone starts using these 2 in conjunction? Gods save us all. Guerilla warfare won the American Revolution think what it will do to us as Eve players. Next time the bad Vaga pilot's come towards you just shout(caps lock of course) " Hey slow down there buddy, or Budette, speed kills."

Alright I have made pointless ramblings now, not along the lines of Minmatar do better DPS than Minmatar though. Meh.

Haxa
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.06.22 13:51:00 - [83]
 

Nerf the Fourms!!!! Put some filter on that if any forum post mentions BoB, Jita, or Nerf, that gets a insta ban Very Happy

HoKu Ziare
Middle Finger Technology
F A I L
Posted - 2007.06.22 13:57:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Fable Hike

lets nerf one of the few good ships minmatards have


Very Happy Come on what can you say to that?

Ariel Dawn
Posted - 2007.06.22 16:59:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: MehTheTrader
Minimatar needs to lose 30 percent of its damage, because of how much of speed bonus it gets. Then it will be on par with other races.


They just implemented overheating webs did almost exactly that due to having to orbit/keep at range 3km further now. Minmatar has been nerfed, so no more need for whining.

Ybbor Notlimah
Posted - 2007.06.22 17:57:00 - [86]
 

The Vagabond is a great HAC but just because it's the bect HAC doesnt mean it should be nerfed. I think it fits perfectly into the Minnie play style and tactic. Hits hard and is hard to catch, but when you catch him he's gonna die :)

NERF JESUS!

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2007.06.22 18:28:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Jim McGregor on 22/06/2007 18:27:58
Originally by: Ybbor Notlimah
The Vagabond is a great HAC but just because it's the bect HAC doesnt mean it should be nerfed. I think it fits perfectly into the Minnie play style and tactic. Hits hard and is hard to catch, but when you catch him he's gonna die :)

NERF JESUS!


No. Gallente should win up close and at range, otherwise its simply not balanced. Minnie ships should win when the gallente pilot have less than 500k skillpoints and is flying a shuttle.

n0thing
Executive Intervention
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2007.06.22 18:29:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: n0thing on 22/06/2007 18:30:38
Vagabond is fine as it is. Its just a one big expensive tackler.

It has approx 400-420 dps with drone skills + t2 guns + 2x dmg mods.
Once its webbed it wont sustain any damage at all from direct fire pointed at it.

It cant shoot with its MWD on either. At this point, you can even bite it down with medium drones. Since major part of vagabonds dont have webber, it will be long time before your drones will start popping.

A huggin is a nightmare for vagabond so as arazu and their non-cloaking twins. Any ship that can catch up with it even nano-ishtar can pretty much rip it apart with superior DPS.

Even Raven with precision cruise will bbq Vagabond without MWD on orbit.


As for Matari bonuses, they got also another bonus that is prevalent on major part of ships - RoF bonus. It can be compared to drone/missle/laser bonuses on other races.

As for the close-range. Gallente are kings in <12km range. So, if Vagabond ever have a Deimos landing 5km off it and have time to web it....Vagabond will get popped within seconds since its weakest resist being kinetic, thus with Void it will be toast inside 10km like it should be.


Only complaint I have about Vagabonds in general, is the completly silly falloff and range. Medium short guns shouldnt have range of medium long range ones. Hence 2x falloff rigs + Barrage = 30km falloff....thats just wrong. 20km fine, so as maybe somewhere 22-24.....but 30?!

Ciuci
FinFleet
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.22 18:52:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Ciuci on 22/06/2007 18:50:59
if it really needs a nerf, the why the heck does every single one runs away from my Cerberus ?

Tearavygh Quillam
Caldari
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.22 19:01:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Gallente McNuggets
Nuff said.

No other HAC (or other ship) comes even close to the Vagabond in over-poweredness. It has speed, DPS and tank.

Just look at 99% of the alliances killboards and see how many peeps are flying it to see that every noob and his iWin button are flying one.

This is a side-effect of the Nano nerf. Now peeps all fly the only remaining nano ships - Vaga and to a lesser extent, Nanophoon.

Time to plug the hole. Let the noobs learn how to fly ships that actually, you know, involve a bit of risk and brain power.

Moved from Eve General Discussion to Ships and Modules -Eldo


Did you just get run over by TRI or what? Cool guys, btw :)

Vagabond is nice and it costs 150-200 mil in fitting to make it run to 6-7kms/s with no gang and snakes.

It is a good ship and does its role perfectly. Don't like it, adapt!


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