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blankseplocked Thermodynamic's Reduce to Energy Management 4 please! (First Whine)
 
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.21 20:26:00 - [451]
 

Edited by: Hasak Rain on 21/06/2007 20:28:06
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Sinnead Bachmann
Edited by: Sinnead Bachmann on 21/06/2007 18:12:28
It's simple really, it is that way because the Dev's decided it should be. No other logic is required.

Heat overload is an effect the dev's wish to be available to a smaller group of players than the whole player base. How do I know this to be true? Simple, I look at the skill requirements the dev's have set. The only thing stopping everyone from doing it is the Opportunity Cost

Now, when I was an utter noob the idea of training a 45 day skill seemed horrifying. You see, there were so many other things I could do with those 45 days - ie train up the Learning and core skills for my chosen path. Now that I am less of a noob and have spent some time training some of those 'core' skills to L5 the idea of a 45 day skill is pretty innocuous.

So, it seems you have a choice: Spend the time now and forgo all the other things you could have done with the training time required and gain the ability to overload your modules. Or don't and don't.

Dumbing down the skill reqs isn't the way to go.


total agreement, this game is supposed to represent a level unreached by other MMO's. I will say that perhaps they overdid the UI a bit, but the live dev blog said that wasnt the final product. On that note, i really dont think the UI dislike is reason enough to dumb down the skills just so everybody can use it.





How does making the reqs high and creating another time sink "represent a level unreachable by other MMOs?"

People continue to make fancy and important sounding statements like this but they lack substance and are never backed up by any facts. Rolling Eyes

Any MMO can put in a time sink. The high reqs the Devs decided to attach to Heat is nothing special or spectacular or "genre changing."...lol

CampyloBacter
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2007.06.21 20:41:00 - [452]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin
this post amazes me.

So is the problem that you have to see it in your UI, or that you cant use the damn heat?

I wonder if all the posters here realize how many 2-3 year old players DIDNT train EM5, simply because they didnt think the final level was worth it. Don't believe me? try trolling the alts for sale, take a look at how many DONT have that skill, AND have 2+year ages on em.

You'd think its the end of the world "Oh woe is me, i cant do things a 3 year player does" BFD, get over it.

The OP here violently attacks anybody who dose not side with him, ignoring every fact presented. He is backed by people calling it a "timesink"...wtf do you think BS 5 is? 60 days for what? a slight boost. I wonder why he bothered to post at all, unless he wanted to prove his lack of debating skills by ignoring facts, and attacking people who try to make a point.

In the end, like everything else in this game, im sure CCP will fold, and "dumb" it down, the nerf cries will reach the heavans, and the great smiting nerf bolt will come down, then EVE will be full of people burning up thier mods and crying for the heat effect to do less damage.

One thing you all need to adjust to, EvE is all about the haves n the have nots. you have trained the skills, or you have not, you will train the skills, or you will not. This game isnt supposed to be fair, its supposed to reward those who work hard at it. If your willing to take the time to train the skill, regardless of what you think of it being a timesink (which is utterly ******ed when you look at some of the longer train skills), you will reap the rewards.

only 2 things will make this thread better: a moderator saying "its not changing, deal with it for once instead of *****ing", and CCP saying that EVERY patch from now on will involve increasingly difficult to aquire skills. cause i gotta tell you, that if i had been playing for 3 years, n some guy who started a month ago came along and could do even a portion of what i could do, i would simply find a new game to play.

If the damn UI bothers you so much, start a thread about that to get noticed, but dont use it as a platform to adjust the requirements for a skill, it just sounds assanine when presented in this particular ridiculous argument.




/signed

perhaps one of the best written and most succinct posts I have ever read in these fora. Thank you sir- for bringing some sanity to this asylum.

qantua gnartians
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2007.06.21 20:54:00 - [453]
 

Edited by: qantua gnartians on 21/06/2007 21:02:26
Originally by: Sinnead Bachmann
Edited by: Sinnead Bachmann on 21/06/2007 18:12:28
It's simple really, it is that way because the Dev's decided it should be. No other logic is required.

So is just pure and blind belief in aoutority, you do know that those devs have made a lot of changes to eve over the time ajustiing just about averything.



Originally by: Sinnead Bachmann



Dumbing down the skill reqs isn't the way to go.


Are we debating heat or general training time, i certainly dont want the general acess to T2 ships and modules dumbed down, it's just that the nature of heat is so much different from any module in the fact that CCP had rewrite the combat UI completly.

Im not in any way oposed to 45days paths, thats a part of what makes the skill system so revarding. itĘs specificly heats status as neither module nor really independent specialisation, that makes me just dont get wry EM 5 makes sense in the contents.

Actually the whole way to uncomplex implementation of the req's bother me, it just feels so much like an afterthought.

Why cant heat be something thats there but grows with skills like guns, ships or scan probes(ccp added a basic probe with rev II)

Why does everyone see heat as nothing different then da bomb or a new flashy t2 mod when it fored ccp to rewrite the combat UI for all, if thats the presumption yes just suck it an train for it, ill say drop em 5 and add some new rank 4 instead as pre req, but heat is not just a flashy t2 mod its an UI change.

CampyloBacter
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2007.06.21 20:55:00 - [454]
 

Originally by: qantua gnartians
15 pages so far and still noone has taken the time to think their position over, and have come up with an actual reason to wry heat needs to be restricted content, or wry it needs to be tied to that skill in particular and not it's own specialisation path.

the whole well it's not a specialisation since EM 5 is a must have is just defensive retorics, that does only confirm that pouple dont see a great need for it to be restricted, from anyone.

Im not nesseryly against having heat as a specialisation if someone could point a benefit to it being tied to theat exact existing path of specialisation.


BTW Gantua-

the word you want is WHY not wry... the latter means something totally different.

qantua gnartians
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2007.06.21 21:00:00 - [455]
 

Edited by: qantua gnartians on 21/06/2007 21:01:00
Originally by: CampyloBacter

BTW Gantua-

the word you want is WHY not wry... the latter means something totally different.


Thanks im not a native english speaker as you might have guessed, so i did not actually know that.

Hasak Rain
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.21 21:04:00 - [456]
 

Originally by: CampyloBacter
Originally by: Grath Telkin
this post amazes me.

So is the problem that you have to see it in your UI, or that you cant use the damn heat?

I wonder if all the posters here realize how many 2-3 year old players DIDNT train EM5, simply because they didnt think the final level was worth it. Don't believe me? try trolling the alts for sale, take a look at how many DONT have that skill, AND have 2+year ages on em.

You'd think its the end of the world "Oh woe is me, i cant do things a 3 year player does" BFD, get over it.

The OP here violently attacks anybody who dose not side with him, ignoring every fact presented. He is backed by people calling it a "timesink"...wtf do you think BS 5 is? 60 days for what? a slight boost. I wonder why he bothered to post at all, unless he wanted to prove his lack of debating skills by ignoring facts, and attacking people who try to make a point.

In the end, like everything else in this game, im sure CCP will fold, and "dumb" it down, the nerf cries will reach the heavans, and the great smiting nerf bolt will come down, then EVE will be full of people burning up thier mods and crying for the heat effect to do less damage.

One thing you all need to adjust to, EvE is all about the haves n the have nots. you have trained the skills, or you have not, you will train the skills, or you will not. This game isnt supposed to be fair, its supposed to reward those who work hard at it. If your willing to take the time to train the skill, regardless of what you think of it being a timesink (which is utterly ******ed when you look at some of the longer train skills), you will reap the rewards.

only 2 things will make this thread better: a moderator saying "its not changing, deal with it for once instead of *****ing", and CCP saying that EVERY patch from now on will involve increasingly difficult to aquire skills. cause i gotta tell you, that if i had been playing for 3 years, n some guy who started a month ago came along and could do even a portion of what i could do, i would simply find a new game to play.

If the damn UI bothers you so much, start a thread about that to get noticed, but dont use it as a platform to adjust the requirements for a skill, it just sounds assanine when presented in this particular ridiculous argument.




/signed

perhaps one of the best written and most succinct posts I have ever read in these fora. Thank you sir- for bringing some sanity to this asylum.



Yes it is a great post except for the following.

1) Comparing the training time for Heat to the training time of a BS, Hac or any other high end ship class in this game is the ramblings of the idiotic. I shouldn't even have to explain why so i won't.

2) Where are these facts that he speaks of? Actually, most of the posts here are of the 12 year old "Stop whining, Suck it up..blah blah" variety. Saying "because I say so so shut up" doesn't qualify as a fact. Laughing

3) His "succient" post reaks of "I don't want the noobs having what i have." He even admits as much.


But yeah...it is such a great post since it is a totally unbiased view and all. Rolling Eyes




Liu Kaskakka
PAK
Posted - 2007.06.21 21:07:00 - [457]
 

No, everyone has the pre-requisites anyway .. Laughing

Adam Weishaupt
Minmatar
Impel Industrial
Posted - 2007.06.21 21:44:00 - [458]
 

Seriously, no. This is what, 20 days of training with good Learning skills? And Engineering 5 is required for nearly everything anyway...Big frickin' deal. It's not a core mechanic nor do you NEED heat for anything. It's just there to spice things up. Leave it as it is, give people an incentive to train Energy Management 5, which they should do anyway.

Mr Greetings
Posted - 2007.06.21 21:47:00 - [459]
 

Originally by: Adam Weishaupt
Seriously, no. This is what, 20 days of training with good Learning skills? And Engineering 5 is required for nearly everything anyway...Big frickin' deal. It's not a core mechanic nor do you NEED heat for anything. It's just there to spice things up. Leave it as it is, give people an incentive to train Energy Management 5, which they should do anyway.

if it's not a core mechanic why it on my UI? make it go away please. untill I have the skills

Sinnead Bachmann
Posted - 2007.06.21 21:57:00 - [460]
 

Originally by: Mr Greetings
if it's not a core mechanic why it on my UI? make it go away please. untill I have the skills

You are not a core mechanic of these forums.
Please go away.Twisted Evil

Saori Rei
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2007.06.21 22:07:00 - [461]
 

Though I think Heat unecessary, the requirements are just fine as they are. They are high enough that someone with good skill points can use it but low enough that a noob doesnt accidently destroy her prized modules >_>

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.06.21 22:48:00 - [462]
 

Originally by: Saori Rei
Though I think Heat unecessary, the requirements are just fine as they are. They are high enough that someone with good skill points can use it but low enough that a noob doesnt accidently destroy her prized modules >_>


in 16 pages, i think everything asked of the "why" is nicely summed up here.
I would address the UI in the dev forums, but as to why, this is a pretty good reason.

a new player will not know when to use his heat, and when not to, and thus will likely fry mods on a near daily basis.

To avoid this, perhaps CCP decided they wanted a bit of wind to have passed beneath newer players wings before they started baking mods, so that perhaps the new pilots would have better understanding of thier chosen ships abilities, and would less likely to instantly try to overheat a rack at every occasion.

Yes, the current UI could use some tinkering, but that has nothing to do with this current post, which, is about the time it takes to get the skill. As to what it has to do with heat, i would read it like this:

Heat is energy in your ship, thus you need engineering 5, and energy management 5 to properly know how to adjust the flow of this energy. Science just goes along with the "theme". In essence, to adjust the flow of energy in your ship, you must be a master of the energy in your ship.

i know that no matter the post, many who are opposed to the training time simply will refuse to listen to reason, so they will ignore this, as they have many of the more sensible posts, but i have tried to bring it into a possible view you may understand

Susitna
Caldari
The Tuskers
Posted - 2007.06.21 23:10:00 - [463]
 

Edited by: Susitna on 21/06/2007 23:10:56
I think the Energy Management to 5 is bit too much also.

I think I read a dev comment somewhere I forget where that basically said Heat is intended to limit the effect of high Skill points in all battles. It is intended to give a lower SP pilot with good piloting skills a chance when engaged with high SP pilot. I could of read the comments wrong or misunderstood them.

However, if the intent of heat is give a lower SP pilot a fighting chance, making energy management 5 a pre req is silly. I have been playing 6 months and have the skill at 4. I have not trained it to 5 because it takes awhile. A new player has many otheer skills that need to be to level 4 before they train this IMHO.

Heat as implemented helps High SP players not low SP players. If that is the intent fine leave it. However, I and others think this game is not newb friendly. Gotta do training skills and now this just makes it more likely new players will just leave.

Teinyhr
Minmatar
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
Posted - 2007.06.21 23:26:00 - [464]
 

Edited by: Teinyhr on 21/06/2007 23:25:20
Sheesh the energy management V is like 15 days Rolling Eyes (not really that much - there are many many skills that take a month or more)

Sinnead Bachmann
Posted - 2007.06.22 02:12:00 - [465]
 

Edited by: Sinnead Bachmann on 22/06/2007 02:11:34
Originally by: qantua gnartians
Originally by: Sinnead Bachmann
It's simple really, it is that way because the Dev's decided it should be. No other logic is required.


So is just pure and blind belief in aoutority, you do know that those devs have made a lot of changes to eve over the time ajustiing just about averything.



WTF are you on? Blind belief in authority??? How about: an educated guess about dev intentions based on their actions.

Have the devs tweaked and modified things in game? Yes. This is normal for this sort of thing, and one assumes that such changes were made after testing and impact assessment. ie: Dev's wanted some effect, implement a mechanism to bring that effect about, then tweak said mechanism if the results of implementation don't deliver the desired effect.

This is the dev's controlling the direction their game takes.

Does this give legitimacy to the nerf herders who want to dumb down a new skill simply because they don't want to have to work for a new ability? No.

This thread is an attempt by whiny players to get things their way again. Once again: Adapt and overcome. STFU and play with what you are given or go build your own game.




Akiman
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.06.22 03:12:00 - [466]
 

fk the heat imo! and he should be right...its in UI which means it should be a core skill.who asked for heat anyways -.- whatever...

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2007.06.22 12:09:00 - [467]
 

Originally by: Whalesaver
Having played the game for 2.5 years, I have EM5 so I would like to think my viewpoint is relatively objective.

I believe there should be no pre-requisites for heat.

Why? It is available on every ship and is not a module. It's not as though you need a pre-requisite skill to use your scanner, or to warp, so why to use heat?

Sure seed skills for using it more effectively, but it has the capacity to be a game changing mechanic, why exclude 95% of the playing population from using it?


This is probably the best heat-related comment from the whole thread.
Comparing Heat to the scanner, warp drive, in-built system scanner and such is much more valid then comparing heat to HACs/whatever.

Hasak Rain
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.22 12:26:00 - [468]
 

Edited by: Hasak Rain on 22/06/2007 12:28:07
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Whalesaver
Having played the game for 2.5 years, I have EM5 so I would like to think my viewpoint is relatively objective.

I believe there should be no pre-requisites for heat.

Why? It is available on every ship and is not a module. It's not as though you need a pre-requisite skill to use your scanner, or to warp, so why to use heat?

Sure seed skills for using it more effectively, but it has the capacity to be a game changing mechanic, why exclude 95% of the playing population from using it?


This is probably the best heat-related comment from the whole thread.
Comparing Heat to the scanner, warp drive, in-built system scanner and such is much more valid then comparing heat to HACs/whatever.


Actually, I have been saying the exact same thing through the entire thread. It should be implemented as a base feature for every ship.

People saying noobs will burn up their modules should consider that same noob right now can wander into low sec and lose the entire ship so what is the difference? The key to protecting noobs from both of those pitfalls is to put that info into the tutorial so they know this stuff before they even get into the game. This game is risky even for a noob. People trying to pose as though they are concerned about new players are just using it as an excuse to keep the reqs for heat where they currently are.

And yes, comparing training Heat to training up HaCs and Battleships is pretty stupid. I didn't realize the player base is this clueless.

Disco Flint
The Flaming Sideburn's
Posted - 2007.06.22 12:54:00 - [469]
 

Originally by: Hasak Rain
Edited by: Hasak Rain on 22/06/2007 12:28:07
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Whalesaver
Having played the game for 2.5 years, I have EM5 so I would like to think my viewpoint is relatively objective.

I believe there should be no pre-requisites for heat.

Why? It is available on every ship and is not a module. It's not as though you need a pre-requisite skill to use your scanner, or to warp, so why to use heat?

Sure seed skills for using it more effectively, but it has the capacity to be a game changing mechanic, why exclude 95% of the playing population from using it?


This is probably the best heat-related comment from the whole thread.
Comparing Heat to the scanner, warp drive, in-built system scanner and such is much more valid then comparing heat to HACs/whatever.


Actually, I have been saying the exact same thing through the entire thread. It should be implemented as a base feature for every ship.

People saying noobs will burn up their modules should consider that same noob right now can wander into low sec and lose the entire ship so what is the difference? The key to protecting noobs from both of those pitfalls is to put that info into the tutorial so they know this stuff before they even get into the game. This game is risky even for a noob. People trying to pose as though they are concerned about new players are just using it as an excuse to keep the reqs for heat where they currently are.

And yes, comparing training Heat to training up HaCs and Battleships is pretty stupid. I didn't realize the player base is this clueless.


The probing window is built into the scanner window as well. infact, iirc, the probing window is the first (1st!) tab and the no-skill system scanner only the second or third.

Now, probing requires quite some SP to be done effectively, be it exploration probing or probing for players.

I ask, no, I DEMAND the training time for these skills to be lowered since it's built into the UI!

Hasak Rain
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.22 13:12:00 - [470]
 

Originally by: Disco Flint
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Edited by: Hasak Rain on 22/06/2007 12:28:07
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Whalesaver
Having played the game for 2.5 years, I have EM5 so I would like to think my viewpoint is relatively objective.

I believe there should be no pre-requisites for heat.

Why? It is available on every ship and is not a module. It's not as though you need a pre-requisite skill to use your scanner, or to warp, so why to use heat?

Sure seed skills for using it more effectively, but it has the capacity to be a game changing mechanic, why exclude 95% of the playing population from using it?


This is probably the best heat-related comment from the whole thread.
Comparing Heat to the scanner, warp drive, in-built system scanner and such is much more valid then comparing heat to HACs/whatever.


Actually, I have been saying the exact same thing through the entire thread. It should be implemented as a base feature for every ship.

People saying noobs will burn up their modules should consider that same noob right now can wander into low sec and lose the entire ship so what is the difference? The key to protecting noobs from both of those pitfalls is to put that info into the tutorial so they know this stuff before they even get into the game. This game is risky even for a noob. People trying to pose as though they are concerned about new players are just using it as an excuse to keep the reqs for heat where they currently are.

And yes, comparing training Heat to training up HaCs and Battleships is pretty stupid. I didn't realize the player base is this clueless.


The probing window is built into the scanner window as well. infact, iirc, the probing window is the first (1st!) tab and the no-skill system scanner only the second or third.

Now, probing requires quite some SP to be done effectively, be it exploration probing or probing for players.

I ask, no, I DEMAND the training time for these skills to be lowered since it's built into the UI!


Yeah except my arguments to why the reqs should be lowered have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it was built into the interface.

Disco Flint
The Flaming Sideburn's
Posted - 2007.06.22 13:18:00 - [471]
 

Originally by: Hasak Rain

Yeah except my arguments to why the reqs should be lowered have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it was built into the interface.


ah yes? Here, let me aid your memory!

Originally by: Hasak Rain
Edited by: Hasak Rain on 22/06/2007 12:28:07
Originally by: Cpt Branko
This is probably the best heat-related comment from the whole thread.
Comparing Heat to the scanner, warp drive, in-built system scanner and such is much more valid then comparing heat to HACs/whatever.


Actually, I have been saying the exact same thing through the entire thread. It should be implemented as a base feature for every ship.
*snip*

Hasak Rain
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.22 13:22:00 - [472]
 

Edited by: Hasak Rain on 22/06/2007 13:21:26
Originally by: Disco Flint
Originally by: Hasak Rain

Yeah except my arguments to why the reqs should be lowered have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it was built into the interface.


ah yes? Here, let me aid your memory!

Originally by: Hasak Rain
Edited by: Hasak Rain on 22/06/2007 12:28:07
Originally by: Cpt Branko
This is probably the best heat-related comment from the whole thread.
Comparing Heat to the scanner, warp drive, in-built system scanner and such is much more valid then comparing heat to HACs/whatever.


Actually, I have been saying the exact same thing through the entire thread. It should be implemented as a base feature for every ship.
*snip*




A base feature on a ship doesn't have to be something that is embedded into the interface. Last time I checked, my ship's base armor hit points were not controlled by any buttons on the UI. Rolling Eyes

Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.06.22 13:31:00 - [473]
 

I figure the other thread will get locked/deleted at some point, so I figured I should just post my thoughts here instead.

Originally by: Dark Shikari
The problem isn't the requirement, its that its a part of the interface that newbies will see for 6 months before they can even use it.

And that wouldn't be confusing to someone? Suddenly a primary element of the game interface changes because they trained a skill? This speaks to me as one of two things.

1. The idea of a changing interface is poorly conceived
2. The existing interface is poorly conceived

Or possibly some combination of the two. Here's a thought for changing how things work.

1. Change fitting window to include a button for heat configuration (new window). There, you set which slots are set to be able to be overheated. This button is always there, but gives the user the skill requirement message when they click it.
2. The configuration window shows you how your skill affects the modules.
3. Configured slots show the green bars, others do not. Thus new players will not see any heat interface elements.
4. Rack toggles appear when a ship has been configured. There is no reconfigure on the fly, so you have to dock or use a ship maintenance array to reset your configuration. You begin overheating by clicking on a particular rack's toggle icon, deactivate when you click it again.
5. Slots which have been configured will show the indicator bar so the user can see whether something's being overheated and how much damage is taken (you have to show it SOMEhow). Slots not configured will not show the indicators.

Thoughts?

Bonny Lou
Posted - 2007.06.22 13:42:00 - [474]
 

Leave it at V.
Just because you should show the people that whining doesnt always work.

Please.

Disco Flint
The Flaming Sideburn's
Posted - 2007.06.22 13:48:00 - [475]
 

Originally by: Hasak Rain
A base feature on a ship doesn't have to be something that is embedded into the interface. Last time I checked, my ship's base armor hit points were not controlled by any buttons on the UI. Rolling Eyes


Quite a lot of base features ARE embedded into the UI (warp to, orbit, make guns go pewpew). So what you just said is worth nothing again, thanks for the eyeroll.

HoKu Ziare
Middle Finger Technology
F A I L
Posted - 2007.06.22 13:49:00 - [476]
 

Originally by: CampyloBacter
Originally by: Grath Telkin
this post amazes me.

So is the problem that you have to see it in your UI, or that you cant use the damn heat?

I wonder if all the posters here realize how many 2-3 year old players DIDNT train EM5, simply because they didnt think the final level was worth it. Don't believe me? try trolling the alts for sale, take a look at how many DONT have that skill, AND have 2+year ages on em.

You'd think its the end of the world "Oh woe is me, i cant do things a 3 year player does" BFD, get over it.

The OP here violently attacks anybody who dose not side with him, ignoring every fact presented. He is backed by people calling it a "timesink"...wtf do you think BS 5 is? 60 days for what? a slight boost. I wonder why he bothered to post at all, unless he wanted to prove his lack of debating skills by ignoring facts, and attacking people who try to make a point.

In the end, like everything else in this game, im sure CCP will fold, and "dumb" it down, the nerf cries will reach the heavans, and the great smiting nerf bolt will come down, then EVE will be full of people burning up thier mods and crying for the heat effect to do less damage.

One thing you all need to adjust to, EvE is all about the haves n the have nots. you have trained the skills, or you have not, you will train the skills, or you will not. This game isnt supposed to be fair, its supposed to reward those who work hard at it. If your willing to take the time to train the skill, regardless of what you think of it being a timesink (which is utterly ******ed when you look at some of the longer train skills), you will reap the rewards.

only 2 things will make this thread better: a moderator saying "its not changing, deal with it for once instead of *****ing", and CCP saying that EVERY patch from now on will involve increasingly difficult to aquire skills. cause i gotta tell you, that if i had been playing for 3 years, n some guy who started a month ago came along and could do even a portion of what i could do, i would simply find a new game to play.

If the damn UI bothers you so much, start a thread about that to get noticed, but dont use it as a platform to adjust the requirements for a skill, it just sounds assanine when presented in this particular ridiculous argument.




/signed

perhaps one of the best written and most succinct posts I have ever read in these fora. Thank you sir- for bringing some sanity to this asylum.


I endorse this product.Smile

ps. Dear CCP about changing the Skill Req's... Don'tExclamation

Hasak Rain
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.22 13:52:00 - [477]
 

Originally by: Bonny Lou
Leave it at V.
Just because you should show the people that whining doesnt always work.

Please.



Yes because it ALWAYS works. I mean take a look at all of the daily whines about lag and how it is always fixed. Rolling Eyes

That aside, "whining" is a pretty loose term. I suppose when you bring up something that you think is wrong it is called Constructive Criticism?

qantua gnartians
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2007.06.22 14:15:00 - [478]
 

Originally by: Disco Flint


Now, probing requires quite some SP to be done effectively, be it exploration probing or probing for players.

I ask, no, I DEMAND the training time for these skills to be lowered since it's built into the UI!


Every noob can now use a built in probe with out any training at all, did'nt you read the patch notes Wink. so your demanding something that have been delivered.

I do think CCP completely messed up the implemtation of heat, not just in terms of skill req's but also in therms of reasing it before they had the UI fully designed or actually figured out how it would affect gameplay, and player experience.

I still think there should be both more SP involved in getting max use of Heat but less in terms of getting to be able to push the button and watch you civilian gatling gun blown up.

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.06.22 20:22:00 - [479]
 

Originally by: Hasak Rain
Edited by: Hasak Rain on 22/06/2007 12:28:07
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Whalesaver
Having played the game for 2.5 years, I have EM5 so I would like to think my viewpoint is relatively objective.

I believe there should be no pre-requisites for heat.

Why? It is available on every ship and is not a module. It's not as though you need a pre-requisite skill to use your scanner, or to warp, so why to use heat?

Sure seed skills for using it more effectively, but it has the capacity to be a game changing mechanic, why exclude 95% of the playing population from using it?


This is probably the best heat-related comment from the whole thread.
Comparing Heat to the scanner, warp drive, in-built system scanner and such is much more valid then comparing heat to HACs/whatever.


Actually, I have been saying the exact same thing through the entire thread. It should be implemented as a base feature for every ship.

People saying noobs will burn up their modules should consider that same noob right now can wander into low sec and lose the entire ship so what is the difference? The key to protecting noobs from both of those pitfalls is to put that info into the tutorial so they know this stuff before they even get into the game. This game is risky even for a noob. People trying to pose as though they are concerned about new players are just using it as an excuse to keep the reqs for heat where they currently are.

And yes, comparing training Heat to training up HaCs and Battleships is pretty stupid. I didn't realize the player base is this clueless.


shows exactly how much you pay attention to people with views that differ from yours. Ive stated several times, as i defend the reqs that i CAN'T use it on ANY alt i have, AND for that matter, neither can 90% of the people i know in game, one of which is nearly 4 years in game.


Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.06.22 20:26:00 - [480]
 

Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: CampyloBacter
Originally by: Grath Telkin
this post amazes me.

So is the problem that you have to see it in your UI, or that you cant use the damn heat?

I wonder if all the posters here realize how many 2-3 year old players DIDNT train EM5, simply because they didnt think the final level was worth it. Don't believe me? try trolling the alts for sale, take a look at how many DONT have that skill, AND have 2+year ages on em.

You'd think its the end of the world "Oh woe is me, i cant do things a 3 year player does" BFD, get over it.

The OP here violently attacks anybody who dose not side with him, ignoring every fact presented. He is backed by people calling it a "timesink"...wtf do you think BS 5 is? 60 days for what? a slight boost. I wonder why he bothered to post at all, unless he wanted to prove his lack of debating skills by ignoring facts, and attacking people who try to make a point.

In the end, like everything else in this game, im sure CCP will fold, and "dumb" it down, the nerf cries will reach the heavans, and the great smiting nerf bolt will come down, then EVE will be full of people burning up thier mods and crying for the heat effect to do less damage.

One thing you all need to adjust to, EvE is all about the haves n the have nots. you have trained the skills, or you have not, you will train the skills, or you will not. This game isnt supposed to be fair, its supposed to reward those who work hard at it. If your willing to take the time to train the skill, regardless of what you think of it being a timesink (which is utterly ******ed when you look at some of the longer train skills), you will reap the rewards.

only 2 things will make this thread better: a moderator saying "its not changing, deal with it for once instead of *****ing", and CCP saying that EVERY patch from now on will involve increasingly difficult to aquire skills. cause i gotta tell you, that if i had been playing for 3 years, n some guy who started a month ago came along and could do even a portion of what i could do, i would simply find a new game to play.

If the damn UI bothers you so much, start a thread about that to get noticed, but dont use it as a platform to adjust the requirements for a skill, it just sounds assanine when presented in this particular ridiculous argument.




/signed

perhaps one of the best written and most succinct posts I have ever read in these fora. Thank you sir- for bringing some sanity to this asylum.



Yes it is a great post except for the following.

1) Comparing the training time for Heat to the training time of a BS, Hac or any other high end ship class in this game is the ramblings of the idiotic. I shouldn't even have to explain why so i won't.

2) Where are these facts that he speaks of? Actually, most of the posts here are of the 12 year old "Stop whining, Suck it up..blah blah" variety. Saying "because I say so so shut up" doesn't qualify as a fact. Laughing

3) His "succient" post reaks of "I don't want the noobs having what i have." He even admits as much.


But yeah...it is such a great post since it is a totally unbiased view and all. Rolling Eyes






and the worst part is, that i post in huge paragraphs, stating over and over again that i cant use heat, and you keep saying that im defending it because i can. Lets me know that you are extremely hard headed, and you only posted here to see people agree with you, your not reading anything that dosent agree with your ideas, your paraphrasing, and doing a poor job.

I understand HOW you extrapolated your poor accusation, but i cant figure out how you justify calling what i said wrong.


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