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Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.17 20:18:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Hockston Axe on 28/06/2007 16:32:04


I was asked to add these, LP Store searchable databases:

http://www.ellatha.com/eve/LP_Stores.asp

http://joonicks.eu/eve/lpstore.php

-----------------------------------
Entity's Nifty Implant Lookup Page

The LP Store brings with it a fundamental change in mission rewards. Instead of random rarity of the offers determining the value of the goods, itíll simply be good old fashioned supply and demand influencing the value of the goods.

The single biggest change: Implants

Attribute Implants

Right now a basic (+3) costs 15000 LP base, 100000 LP base for a standard (+4). In the LP store a basic costs 5250 LP + 5.25M. A standard costs 12000 LP + 12M, and an improved (+5) will cost only 65000 LP + 65M. I think that itís great, currently the jump in price from +4 to +5 is ridiculous, and relegates most +5 implants to safety in non-PVP environments, where theyíre rarely if ever lost, and rarely if ever replaced. PVP in +4 and even +5 doesnít look too wasteful now, and will eventually result in higher demand for the top end implants I would think, on top of the general demand increase from lower prices. Iíve already liquidated my stock of attribute implants in advance of this across the board price drop.

Using the ideal 1000 isk per LP:

Limited (+1) 750 LP + 750K = 1.5M
Beta (+2) 2500 LP + 2.5M = 5M
Basic (+3) 5250 LP + 5.25M = 10.5M
Standard (+4) 12000 LP + 12M = 24M
Improved (+5) 65000 LP + 65M = 130M

Hardwires

There are many new hardwires affecting nearly every aspect of the game, but the biggest change is the removal of Elite Drone AIís as a requirement for the good 5% ones, making them much easier to get. Implants like the Highwall HX-2 (5% mining yield) now cost only 79375 LP + 31.75M. All of the 5% hardwires have the same cost. See my update below for the real skinny on hardwires though.

Navy Ammo

There is the potential here for becoming a manufacturer of Navy ammo. Many mission runners such as myself will probably supply their own, but there are plenty that would rather buy it instead of sinking LP into their ammo, plus all those non-mission runners who would gladly use Navy ammo if it was affordable, instead of the stupid high prices you see now for faction ammo.

For example to get 5000 Caldari Navy Antimatter M you need to exchange 1600 LP + 1.6M + 5000 Antimatter M. A manufacturer can easily turn over enough LP to keep a virtual production line of Navy ammo going. I think that the cost of the Navy ammo is spot on. To make your own itís an LP and an isk sink, plus youíre still using an equivalent amount of T1 ammo. I see a nice market for Navy ammo coming up.

Navy Mods

There is almost the potential to become a manufacturer of Navy mods, although the insane amounts of faction tags required for the BPC offers will severely limit their acceptance. For example to get a 5 run Caldari Navy Co-Processor requires 135000 LP + 54M + 858! Gallente Navy tags. Thatís all fine and good except for the insane amount of tags. To get one built Caldari Navy Co-Processor costs 45000 LP + 18M + 286! Gallente Navy Tags + 1 Co-Processor 1. I donít think there will be any flood of Navy Mods as long as the tag requirement is so insanely high.

Other notables

Things like connections books (15000 LP + 10M), nexus chips (500, 2000 & 8000 LP) and starbase charters (500 LP for 100) will no longer be valuable, since they can be gotten on demand as needed, for the same requirements as before. Iím fine with that, their value was based solely on their rarity after all.

Those are the market impacts of the new LP store that jump out at me anyway (assuming there are no major changes before Tues). What effects do you think the LP store will have on the market?

Howling Jinn
Ministry of War
Posted - 2007.06.17 22:52:00 - [2]
 

# The LP Store now contains a wide variety of new offers for implants, factional hardware and blueprints. Offers vary between factions and between corporations within a faction.

This could mean, that caldari navy wont hand out implants.

Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.17 23:23:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Hockston Axe on 18/06/2007 07:08:15
Originally by: Howling Jinn
# The LP Store now contains a wide variety of new offers for implants, factional hardware and blueprints. Offers vary between factions and between corporations within a faction.

This could mean, that caldari navy wont hand out implants.


I only checked Royal Khanid Navy, Amarr Navy, Caldari Navy, Home Guard, Nutura, Carthum, Kaalakiota, and Imperial Shipment. They all had all of the attribute implants.

All the Amarr corps had all of the Amarr Navy frequency crystals. Kaal had all of the Caldari Navy ammo.

All corps I checked had starbase charters for their faction.

The differences between corps was in hardwires, connections books (2 or 3 per corp), nexus chips (available @ R&D corps), and Navy Mods and BPCs (at all corps, just different lineups). All corps checked had nexus chip built Navy ship offers. Only the Navy type corps had Navy ship BPC offers.

Khanid had nothing but implants, since they have no faction ammo, mods or ships in game. Ammatar Navy does have a lineup of faction equipment.

But attribute implants, starbase charters and Navy ammo look to be universally available, which is why they topped my list, hardwires are corp specific, so R&D and industrial corps have the new S&I, social and trade hardwires, and the combat corps have the combat hardwires.

So if there is a demand for a specific hardwire it just means getting LP with the right corp. Itís as predictable as finding the right NPC to buy a BPO from, with just a little more effort involved in acquiring it than a simple market transaction.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2007.06.18 00:44:00 - [4]
 

The changes sound pretty good. I am looking forward to outfitting my "non-dying" Industrial ALT with all the best toys I can find for his profession.

Samuel Miner
Caldari
Perilous Expedition
Posted - 2007.06.18 01:00:00 - [5]
 

LP store, WTH? I must have had my head in the sand, is it in the DEV blogs as I can't see it, anyone got a link ?

Gaius Sejanus
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2007.06.18 04:36:00 - [6]
 

Rev2 patch notes:

# The existing LP/Offers system has been replaced with the new ďLP StoreĒ feature.
# LPs are now attached to NPC corporations rather than individual agents; all existing LPs will be migrated from the individual agents to their parent corporations.
# The LP Store now contains a wide variety of new offers for implants, factional hardware and blueprints. Offers vary between factions and between corporations within a faction.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2007.06.18 07:06:00 - [7]
 

Overall good change.

Having some gadgets available only from specific corps would propably mean also that less popular corporations might get their share of mission runners as hardwirings they offers might have better isk/LP ratio due to lesser supply while navy hardwirings would balance around same numbers as general implants with their isk/LP ratio (Motsu is still rather popular).

Also from missionrunner perspective it might make some low sec agents more attractive if they happen to be only combat agents for non combat corporation offering some fairly popular hardwiring.

Insane amount of faction tags for module offers is propably ispired by new lev 5 missions what are against enemy empire factions and without bounties yielding mostly tags.

Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.18 07:11:00 - [8]
 

I left out some rather important info about changes to Hardwires. They now have a base price via their cost from the LP store, that any mission runner can refer to when setting their sell orders, rather than just going by low-ball buy orders. A whole new class of hardwires with 1% effects will replace the existing 3% wirings as the new entry level. 3% gets a boost in value pretty much across the board. Many 5% will fall in price, some undervalued ones will rise. All hardwires of the same % class cost the same LP in the LP store, with combat related hardwires having a higher isk cost than the non-combat hardwires.

Using the generally accepted rate of 1000 isk per LP, here is the new base cost of hardwires:

Non-Combat Hardwires

1% 375 LP + 150K = 525K
3% 10875 LP + 4.35M = 15.225M
5% 79375 LP + 31.75M = 111.125M

Combat Hardwires

1% 375 LP + 375k = 750K
3% 10875 LP + 10.875M = 21.75M
5% 79375 LP + 79.375M = 158.75M

Iím aware that most hardwires on the market are loot drops, however when setting a value to sell at, their cost in the LP store will definitely influence the pricing decision.

Hardwires like the Highwall series are cheaper, being in the non-combat group, hardwires like 5% Large x Damage, 5% Medium x Damage, and 5% All Turret Damage all have the same cost in the LP store, boosting some and deflating others.

It looks to me like an attempt to balance the loss of income from decreased attribute implant prices by increasing the value of hardwires.

Speculate and price gouge away, just donít be too nervous about slow initial sales. I set the first sell orders for all I-stabs in the Forge when Revs 1 hit, and watched amused as others frantically undercut by millions at a time on the first day, due to no sales. Then in a few days everybody else figured out what changed in the game and the prices went back up. Iíd expect a similar thing to happen with hardwires, not everybody reads the forums or logs onto SISI after all. Happy hunting, thereís still a lot of cheap hardwires out there. I love expansion patch days, theyíre the most profitable days of the year.Cool

Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.18 08:03:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Hockston Axe on 20/06/2007 09:22:16
Edited by: Hockston Axe on 18/06/2007 08:03:53
I checked out the LP store for Serpentis, since theyíre the only pirate faction that doesnít hate me. They have faction ammo (including XL size), combat hardwires, their faction ships, and pirate implants.

Again using 1000 isk per LP for LP value:

LG Snake Alpha 7500 LP + 7.5M + normal beta (5M) = 20M
LG Snake Beta 10K LP + 10M + beta = 25M
LG Snake Gamma 15K LP + 15M + beta = 35M
LG Snake Delta 25K LP + 25M + beta = 55M
LG Snake Epsilon 45K LP + 45M + beta = 95M
LG Snake Omega 85k LP + 85M + Rogue CY-1 (21.75M) = 191.75M

Full LG Snake Set = 421.75M

Snake Alpha 23625 LP + 23.625M + normal basic (10.5M) = 57.75M
Snake Beta 31500 LP + 31.5M + basic = 73.5M
Snake Gamma 47250 LP + 47.25M + basic = 105M
Snake Delta 78750 LP + 78.75M + basic = 168M
Snake Epsilon 141750 LP + 141.75M + basic = 294M
Snake Omega 267750 LP + 267.75M + Rogue CY-2 (158.75M) = 694.25M

Full Snake Set = 1392.5M

All of the implants and hardwires needed for the Snake offers are available in the same LP store, so itís totally self-sufficient.

Ships:

Daredevil BPC 20000 LP + 10M = 30M (+ build cost)
Daredevil built 80000 LP + 50M = 130M
Vigilant BPC 80000 LP + 20M = 100M (+ build cost)
Vigilant built 240000 LP + 150M = 390M
Vindicator BPC 400000 LP + 100M = 500M (+ build cost)
Vindicator built 800000 LP + 80M = 880M

I would expect that all the pirate corps have the same LP structure, since all the empire corps have the same structure. Implants and Hardwires common to both are priced identically.

This should be enough now in all these posts to give the trader of mission runner goods an idea of the new pricing structures the LP store will bring.

bloomich
Caldari
In Siders
Posted - 2007.06.18 08:30:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: bloomich on 18/06/2007 08:30:40
So its going to be a massive race to fill up existing buyorders when the patch hits. I got all my alts ready and waiting at appropriate stations, and a massive stockpile of LP Cool

I feel sorry for whoever has buy orders for connection skillbooks.

I hope to make a billion+ on my first hour Cool

Barbicane
TGUN Industries
Posted - 2007.06.18 08:58:00 - [11]
 

I think the "generally accepted" rate of 1000 isk per LP is about to plummet when people trade in their enormous LP stashes for implants. The only thing which might soften the fall would be if navy ammo becomes very popular, but I somehow doubt it.

Faction tags needed for navy item offers are likely to go up in price, depending on the demand for those items of course.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.06.18 09:00:00 - [12]
 

Quote:
For example to get 5000 Caldari Navy Antimatter M you need to exchange 1600 LP + 1.6M + 5000 Antimatter M. A manufacturer can easily turn over enough LP to keep a virtual production line of Navy ammo going. I think that the cost of the Navy ammo is spot on. To make your own itís an LP and an isk sink, plus youíre still using an equivalent amount of T1 ammo. I see a nice market for Navy ammo coming up.


That make the cost of 1 shot of faction AM M at 640 isk or so (using the 1 LP = 1.000 isk conversion).

It seem a bit high.

Sadist
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.06.18 09:14:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Quote:
For example to get 5000 Caldari Navy Antimatter M you need to exchange 1600 LP + 1.6M + 5000 Antimatter M. A manufacturer can easily turn over enough LP to keep a virtual production line of Navy ammo going. I think that the cost of the Navy ammo is spot on. To make your own itís an LP and an isk sink, plus youíre still using an equivalent amount of T1 ammo. I see a nice market for Navy ammo coming up.


That make the cost of 1 shot of faction AM M at 640 isk or so (using the 1 LP = 1.000 isk conversion).

It seem a bit high.


It's not high.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2007.06.18 09:20:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
It seem a bit high.


Depends for what. If that faction ammo gives high enough advantage over regular ammo then mission runners can pay quite nice for small advantages in dps. I imagine I myself could afford something around 3000 isk per shot if it gives me approx 5% better dps. They do use T2 ammo sometimes regardless of it's drawbacks.

In any case that faction ammo offer seems quite affordable. How popular it's going to be .. well .. that depends how good that ammo is going to be. Last I heard at least missiles were rumoured to be pretty good.

Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.18 09:22:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Hockston Axe on 18/06/2007 09:24:26
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Quote:
For example to get 5000 Caldari Navy Antimatter M you need to exchange 1600 LP + 1.6M + 5000 Antimatter M. A manufacturer can easily turn over enough LP to keep a virtual production line of Navy ammo going. I think that the cost of the Navy ammo is spot on. To make your own itís an LP and an isk sink, plus youíre still using an equivalent amount of T1 ammo. I see a nice market for Navy ammo coming up.


That make the cost of 1 shot of faction AM M at 640 isk or so (using the 1 LP = 1.000 isk conversion).

It seem a bit high.


There are already old buy orders for Navy ammo @ 1000 and 2000 p/u. Plus you're getting a 15% damage increase over the T1, without needing to go T2.

The Navy & normal pirate ammo is + 15% damage over the normal T1 version, TS and Dark Blood types are 20% damage increase over T1.

bloomich
Caldari
In Siders
Posted - 2007.06.18 11:05:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: bloomich on 18/06/2007 11:04:46
Originally by: Sadist
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Quote:
For example to get 5000 Caldari Navy Antimatter M you need to exchange 1600 LP + 1.6M + 5000 Antimatter M. A manufacturer can easily turn over enough LP to keep a virtual production line of Navy ammo going. I think that the cost of the Navy ammo is spot on. To make your own itís an LP and an isk sink, plus youíre still using an equivalent amount of T1 ammo. I see a nice market for Navy ammo coming up.


That make the cost of 1 shot of faction AM M at 640 isk or so (using the 1 LP = 1.000 isk conversion).

It seem a bit high.


It's not high.


QFT Id gladly pay 1-2k per shot to be perfectly honest! And with cheaper connection skillbooks, the extra LP's pay for themselves in terms of faster missioning. And PvPers would also gladly pay through the nose for this type of ammo.

Talkie Toaster
Amarr
Incoherent Inc
Otaku Invasion
Posted - 2007.06.18 13:57:00 - [17]
 

i would say then that the value of LP is about to drop. if people can get things like connections books for 10 mil + LP. who would then ever pay silly prices for one. the market for things like that would for the most part vanish as people cna always get their own in a few missions.

The store is a good idea and it'll be cool to see how wild the market goes for the first week while everyone else is cashing in their LP to try and get a quick scam in before certain prices plummet. i tihnk i'll just keep building a stash to use when everyone has calmed down.

Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
Posted - 2007.06.18 14:04:00 - [18]
 

Does anyone know if faction XL ammo can be obtained from the LP store? I am curious because it could add a new dimension to the XL ammo market as dreadnaught pilots find different ways to boost damage and avoid that "extra" siege cycle.

Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
Posted - 2007.06.18 14:22:00 - [19]
 

Don't hold me to this, but I heard a rumour that faction capital class ammo would be available from pirate factions only - ie 0.0 agents.

Dal Thrax
Perkone
Posted - 2007.06.18 15:20:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Quote:
For example to get 5000 Caldari Navy Antimatter M you need to exchange 1600 LP + 1.6M + 5000 Antimatter M. A manufacturer can easily turn over enough LP to keep a virtual production line of Navy ammo going. I think that the cost of the Navy ammo is spot on. To make your own itís an LP and an isk sink, plus youíre still using an equivalent amount of T1 ammo. I see a nice market for Navy ammo coming up.


That make the cost of 1 shot of faction AM M at 640 isk or so (using the 1 LP = 1.000 isk conversion).

It seem a bit high.


To bad the 10% corp tax dosn't apply to LP's. I could see us acquiring some of this for PvP use but getting donations . . .

Dal

Audri Fisher
Caldari
Burning Bush Enterprises
Posted - 2007.06.18 18:10:00 - [21]
 

I am glad I have a mission running alt to suply myself with faction L antimatter Twisted Evil

Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.18 18:15:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Hockston Axe on 18/06/2007 18:39:20
Originally by: Jacque Custeau
Does anyone know if faction XL ammo can be obtained from the LP store? I am curious because it could add a new dimension to the XL ammo market as dreadnaught pilots find different ways to boost damage and avoid that "extra" siege cycle.


Originally by: Ling Xiao
Don't hold me to this, but I heard a rumour that faction capital class ammo would be available from pirate factions only - ie 0.0 agents.


Yep. Serpentis has XL Shadow Ammo @ 5000 rounds for 2700 LP + 2.7M + 5000 T1 XL. I'm away from Empire on SISI and don't feel like making the trip back, but I don't recall seeing XL in the Empire corp stores, but I wasn't looking for it either.

Bazman
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2007.06.18 18:18:00 - [23]
 

Even with the mad amount of tags needed for Navy Modules, are we about to see a crash in prices for the pirate equivelents to the navy modules? I belt rat mostly for my isk and my main consern is that now mission runners will buy their ultra uber mods from the LP store instead of paying for modules imported from the depths of 0.0. I rarely get faction loot, but when I do its a nice boost to my wallet :|

Sir Bart
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
Posted - 2007.06.18 18:41:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: bloomich
Edited by: bloomich on 18/06/2007 08:30:40
So its going to be a massive race to fill up existing buyorders when the patch hits. I got all my alts ready and waiting at appropriate stations, and a massive stockpile of LP Cool

I feel sorry for whoever has buy orders for connection skillbooks.

I hope to make a billion+ on my first hour Cool


And you advertise this in a forum read by thousands of people?

I am in awe of you... find a good thing, ruin it for yourself before you can capitalize.

Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.18 18:48:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Bazman
Even with the mad amount of tags needed for Navy Modules, are we about to see a crash in prices for the pirate equivelents to the navy modules? I belt rat mostly for my isk and my main consern is that now mission runners will buy their ultra uber mods from the LP store instead of paying for modules imported from the depths of 0.0. I rarely get faction loot, but when I do its a nice boost to my wallet :|


Navy stuff isn't always the best faction gear, sometimes it's the same as DB TS type class, sometimes it's inferior. Also there are collectors and people who just like having pirate gear. I myself have a full DB fit on one ship, a full TS fit on another and would love to have a full Navy fit on a third (if they weren't so rare prior to the LP store). Even though the stats are the same for all three types (for what I'm using), the name matters if you want it to.

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2007.06.18 18:52:00 - [26]
 

The number of faction tags required may seem excessive now, but the store is designed with two things in mind that aren't present right now.

> Level 5 missions: From what I hear many of which are against opposing navies.

> Factional Warfare: Which I would imagine will generate a LOT of faction tags.

hilaw
Posted - 2007.06.18 19:03:00 - [27]
 

Could someone in empire please grab us a requirement list for a navy warp disruptor, and which navy it originates from as a rough guide? Would like to see what this will do to the pvp mods.

Cheers

Pang Grohl
Posted - 2007.06.18 19:50:00 - [28]
 

I'd imagine that T2 ammo along with certain T2 mods will suffer when the faction variants become commonly available. Especially when you consider the drawbacks associated with T2 compared to the drawback free benefits of faction goods.

I predict that mods with T2 performance and high-end T1 fitting requirements will be especially popular in the LP stores. I would put passive hardeners at the top of this list.


Ramblin Man
Empyreum
Posted - 2007.06.18 20:11:00 - [29]
 

Re: Tags,
I'm guessing that a lot of these are going to drop from the new "anti-faction" lvl 5s. We'll see though.

Bazman
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2007.06.18 20:14:00 - [30]
 

Given the huge amount of Caldari mission runners, you'll see a large imflux of Caldari Navy modules. These are the same as Dread Guristas Modules in everything but name, if people start cashing in for Caldari Navy Invulnerability Fields and Ballistic Controls, people who do 0.0 ratting up north are gonna feel the bite when it comes to selling off that valuable Dread Mod you picked up. Like wise in Angel space, Domination Overdrives, Warp Disrupters and webbers will take a hit from Minmatar mission runners cashing in on Republic Fleet varients.



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