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CCP kieron

Posted - 2007.06.08 12:24:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: CCP kieron on 10/06/2007 10:59:18
Revelations II is looming on the horizon and a number of improvements are being made in addition to the new content. There have been a number of community discussions concerning the Amarrians, Titans, Logistics, passive shield tank of certain ships and others, we have listened and the following Dev Blog details the results.

Graphs for the boost to Pulse Lasers (there *is* a difference in d/s), no more remote DDD via Cyno Fields, some updates to Logistics cruisers, that's just a portion of the information in Balancing Changes for Revelations Two.

Edit - Typo in subject fixed. Embarassed

Justin Mathers
Posted - 2007.06.08 12:30:00 - [2]
 

Quote:
Supercaps

We have also looked into the problems regarding Motherships and Titans. One of the main complaints is they are virtually indestructible if the pilot knows what he is doing. Even though they are costly to produce, their capabilities far exceed their expense and is something we need to address. Warp Disruption Probes (launched by Interdictors) and Mobile Warp Disruptors will prevent capital ships from jumping or warping respectively. While many capital ships fit smartbombs specifically to counter Warp Disruption Probes, it is possible to keep them out of harmís way with careful placement.

Doomsday devices have been revisited. The remote detonation capability through Cynosural Fields has been removed, now Titans must be present in the same area as their targets. Additionally, firing the doomsday devices prevents the Titan from using its jump drive for 10 minutes. This means the Titan must expose itself to enemy retribution after detonation.


Ok, that's great for 0.0, but what about low-sec. A low-sec mothership is still indestructible as you cannot prevent it from jumping out of system. Unless I am mistaken, You can't drop dictor bubbles in low sec right?

QwaarJet
Gallente
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.06.08 12:34:00 - [3]
 

I'm glad about the logistic changes, i've always been a fan of logistics ships and I have a few. Although from what i='ve heard in testing the Scimitar is much better than other 3 due to sig radius and speed. Any plans to fix that before patch release? Anyway, logistics should also be a good bet for the tournament

On sisi, there is a bonus on bombers that allows them to basically hit frigs for maximum damage, is that staying in?

Lisa More
Caldari
Parental Advisory
Event-Horizon
Posted - 2007.06.08 12:53:00 - [4]
 

ok the drake nerf is right but why you nerf the caldari command ships? the nighthawk is command ship with high skill require ments and you nerf it its now crap not better than a drake you cannot tank and tackle.

Xeen DuWang
Dark-Rising
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2007.06.08 12:55:00 - [5]
 

I was hoping to get into a nighthawk too... Will have to see how it is now.

Most of this is right on, but agreed with the first poster, Super Capitols have no change in low sec.

Callistus
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:03:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Callistus on 08/06/2007 13:27:44
I'm confused, how will making active hardeners and EANs use the same cpu make people choose active specific hardeners over omni-tanks?

For example if you have 3 slots in which to fit hardeners I will still choose 3 EANs over 3 actives as, with good compensation skills, the EANs still give better normalized resists. I could understand it if you make actives use less cpu that EANs thus making people fit them on blasterboats like the mega which are notoriously tight on cpu, but having them use the same cpu just makes no sense Confused

Edit: Some maths.

Dominix with 3 T2 active armor hardeners (exp, kin, therm) and a damage control II:

EM: 66.0%
Exp: 65.57%
Kin: 75.14%
Therm: 75.14%

Total of 281.85, average resist of 70.46%

Dominix with 3 EANM IIs (explosive compensation skill at level 5, the others at level 4) and a Damage Control II:

EM: 82.5%
Exp: 61.35%
Kin: 71.32%
Therm: 71.32%

Total of 286.49, average resist of 71.62%

Granted the difference is minor and the resist distribution will affect your choice if you know what sort of damage types you're facing. But my point is there is still no incentive at all to fit actives over EANMs, especially considering they use cap. This will do almost nothing to reduce omni-armor tanks and instead just hurts a number of both Gallente and Amarr ships which are already incredibly tight on CPU.

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:09:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Shadowsword on 08/06/2007 13:08:36
Ok, this blog is a recap of what we already knew.

No where's the real dev blog about boosting amarrs? Or are you telling us that 6 more CPU on EANM II is the only thing you'll do about the EM damage on armor issue?

Magunus
The Forsakened Few
Green Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:15:00 - [8]
 

Wait a second. Did I read that right? You're nerfing hull tanking? WTF?!



(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:16:00 - [9]
 

You guys dont have a clue why omni-tanks persist do you? Its because 2x eanm+1dc uses less CPU[and still does after the changes!] than 3x active hardeners and is better in about every way. 1x anp, 1x eanm, 1x DC still uses less CPU. The change doesnt modify the persistance of omni tanks it simply makes them 6% less strong. Amarr still end up doing terrible damage to shields. In order to change this, active hardners need to get a drastic reduction in CPU, down to 20 apiece, or even 15. Otherwise all you are doing is nerfing omni-tanks, not modifying the fitting considerations. not to mention, that because amarr ships have the least CPU in the game, and the least CPU after fitting their weapons in the game, they are hit worse by any increase in the CPU use of eanms

You also dont seem to have a clue regarding shield tanking and the prevelence of invuln fields[a hint, about the ONLY specific shield hardeners that are ever fit are EM and that is only after inv fields have been fitted]

The tracking boost is a move in the wrong direction. Yes it will make amarr a bit better close in. But the balance issue should not move towards homogenizing the tracking of the ships, but to move towards making the ships not require obscene training to be usefull in their intended roles. Kill the cap use bonus, cut the cap use of lasers, and then give the ships a real bonus.

You also havent addressed that low teir lasers suffer the absolute worst penalties in the game regarding downfitting.

Your graph is laughable, something is terribly wrong with it. Ingoring the fact that you are using 3 ships that are not gunboats to compare gun damage. You have the Apoc, with 8 guns, cant outdamage a typhoon with 4? It doesnt even get close to the 6 gun domi? And none of these graphs have drones figued in, or missiles? The Domi which also has a drone damage bonus? How about comparing the damages of the Megathron, Tempest/Maelstrom, and Armageddon? Then looking at the damage after an omni tank. THEN you might understand why a nerf to omni tanks wont help the issue.

The apoc does only 14% less damage than an Geddon with its guns in full gank mode. And it barely outdamages the 4 gun typhoon according to you. What are you guys doing in the balance department?

Other things wrong with your graph. DPS difference between the neutron and electron domi seems to be greater in percentage than the difference between the MP and DPH apoc. This absolutly and completly impossible since.

1. DPS difference between Electrons and Neutrons is: 14.2% in favor of the neutrons
While the DPS difference between MP and DHP is: 15.7% in favor of the megapulse.

2. The tracking difference between electrons and neutrons is: 15% in favor of the electrons
While the tracking difference between megapulse and dual heavy pulse is 11% in favor of the DHP

3. Tracking has more of an effect on DPS as a percentage the closer it reduces hit chance towards zero.

4. Pulse lasers have better relative tracking at optimal, making any tracking boost on blasters at their optimal even more relevent.

So the electron domi, which loses less pure DPS, and gains MORE tracking cannot ever have a worse ratio in damage compared to neutron domi than a Megapulse apoc to a DHP apoc, which loses more pure DPS and gains LESS back in tracking. When they are both compared at each others optimal. It is impossible that the ship that loses less and gains more, can end up losing more than the ship that loses more and gains less.

Go back to the drawing board.

B Glorious
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:16:00 - [10]
 

Just one thing:

Quote:
While many capital ships fit smartbombs specifically to counter Warp Disruption Probes, it is possible to keep them out of harmís way with careful placement.


You haven't said anything about the bounding spheres affecting smartbomb range.

If you still don't know what we're talking about, try this:

1) Get an Avatar, Ragnarok, whatever
2) Fit a Chelm's or Draclira's Modified Large EMP smartbomb (or two)
3) Sit a few ships at varying ranges from the titan, such as 7km, 11km, 14km, 17km, and 21km
4) activate the smartbombs and see which ships get hit. You will be amazed.

If you don't fix the bounding spheres, then titans will still be virtually invincible. And so far, it seems that they'll still be invincible in lowsec, where you can't launch bubbles.

Further, you haven't mentioned the extra gang bonuses that titans give with effects comparable to pirate implant sets worth billions of ISK, or anything about jump-bridging freighters, or even cloaking. Its good to get an update, but you still aren't addressing real issues that players are concerned about.

Lord Matrix
Flying Banana Squad
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:23:00 - [11]
 

I fail to see a practical difference between the two graphs. Also, why have you put Apocalypse as an Amarr reference? It's kinda wrong since it doesn't get any DPS bonus like the Dominix or Typhoon which are also both tier 1 battleships. IMO, Armageddon would be a better comparison.

Darpz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:28:00 - [12]
 

Few things:

first:

MAKING BUBBLES AFFECT MOTHERSHIPS AND TITANS IS A GOOD STEP FORWARDS, BUT WITHOUT MAKING THEM BREAK A WARP THAT HAS ALREADY STARTED, IT'S NOT REALLY ENOUGH. THIS HAS BEEN ON KNOWN ISSUES FOR MORE THAN A YEAR ALREADY.

Second:
your missing the problem on amarr, pulse were never the issue they are fine. the issue is the ships overall are just meh and need some rebalancing tweaking to make them viable in pvp. (khanid mk2) one good example is the apoc what is that ship for? geddon is a cheaper gank platform and if you need tank abbadon outtanks and out ganks the apoc. the apoc has no role.

maarud
The Scope
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:35:00 - [13]
 

Once again, you've completely ignored your subscriber base about the ENAM nerf. You haven't even bother to reply with replys to the numerous points being brought about this very VERY hot topic.

Well done guys, well done. Confused

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:36:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Aramendel on 08/06/2007 13:45:15
I wanted to comment this as well.

Quote:
While many capital ships fit smartbombs specifically to counter Warp Disruption Probes, it is possible to keep them out of harmís way with careful placement.


The whole problem is that you CANNOT do this due to smartbombs having bigger ranges than "on paper" for capitals.

And there are 2 additional details which limit the efficiency of this change:

- a bubble does nothing to stop a warp which has already started (meaning where the ship has the "warping" text, but is still alligning and has not reached 80% sped yet) unlike warp disruptors/scramblers, which do.

- you cannot use bubbles in low sec. And the use of motherships there is, while not exactly common also not realyl rare there anymore. Which makes them unkillable solopownmobiles there.

Originally by: Goumindong
You guys dont have a clue why omni-tanks persist do you? Its because 2x eanm+1dc uses less CPU[and still does after the changes!] than 3x active hardeners and is better in about every way. 1x anp, 1x eanm, 1x DC still uses less CPU. The change doesnt modify the persistance of omni tanks it simply makes them 6% less strong.


Also quoted for truth. To make this a bit clearer: Its a choice between

+ 48.9% resistance vs all (with lvl 4 in the compensation skills) PLUS 60% hull resistances (and this is a major advantage since for most armortanking ships have without plates almost as much hull as they have armor) and almost no energy costs and 6 CPU easier fitting

OR

+55% resistance vs therm, kin, exp, 6 more cpu needed, no hull resistances and needing 4.5 cap/sec (which is quite noticeable)

The considerable easier fitting was only a relatively minor detail of what made 2 EAN2 + DC2 superior. Even if it had identical fittings to a 3 active harderner setup (which it still hasn't) it would be a better choice.

Malachon Draco
eXceeded
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:38:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: B Glorious
Just one thing:

Quote:
While many capital ships fit smartbombs specifically to counter Warp Disruption Probes, it is possible to keep them out of harmís way with careful placement.


You haven't said anything about the bounding spheres affecting smartbomb range.

If you still don't know what we're talking about, try this:

1) Get an Avatar, Ragnarok, whatever
2) Fit a Chelm's or Draclira's Modified Large EMP smartbomb (or two)
3) Sit a few ships at varying ranges from the titan, such as 7km, 11km, 14km, 17km, and 21km
4) activate the smartbombs and see which ships get hit. You will be amazed.

If you don't fix the bounding spheres, then titans will still be virtually invincible. And so far, it seems that they'll still be invincible in lowsec, where you can't launch bubbles.

Further, you haven't mentioned the extra gang bonuses that titans give with effects comparable to pirate implant sets worth billions of ISK, or anything about jump-bridging freighters, or even cloaking. Its good to get an update, but you still aren't addressing real issues that players are concerned about.


Exactly, you are ignoring the effect of officer smartbombs and the weird range calculations for warp disruptors vs smartbomb range.

This is not a viable solution.

Maghnus
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:40:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: B Glorious
Just one thing:

Quote:
While many capital ships fit smartbombs specifically to counter Warp Disruption Probes, it is possible to keep them out of harmís way with careful placement.


You haven't said anything about the bounding spheres affecting smartbomb range.

If you still don't know what we're talking about, try this:

1) Get an Avatar, Ragnarok, whatever
2) Fit a Chelm's or Draclira's Modified Large EMP smartbomb (or two)
3) Sit a few ships at varying ranges from the titan, such as 7km, 11km, 14km, 17km, and 21km
4) activate the smartbombs and see which ships get hit. You will be amazed.

If you don't fix the bounding spheres, then titans will still be virtually invincible. And so far, it seems that they'll still be invincible in lowsec, where you can't launch bubbles.

Further, you haven't mentioned the extra gang bonuses that titans give with effects comparable to pirate implant sets worth billions of ISK, or anything about jump-bridging freighters, or even cloaking. Its good to get an update, but you still aren't addressing real issues that players are concerned about.


Exactly, you are ignoring the effect of officer smartbombs and the weird range calculations for warp disruptors vs smartbomb range.

This is not a viable solution.



Not to mention that supercapitals operating in lowsec will continue to be untacklable solowpwnmobiles.

Darpz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:47:00 - [17]
 

another problem with amarr. no other race has a problem fitting a full rack of its biggest guns like amarr do.

Mega can fit 7 425s no sweat
Raven can fit 6 siege no problem
mael can fit 8 1400s
pretty sure a pest can fit 6 1400s without fitting mods

try fitting 8 tachs on a apoc or even a abbadon? yeah gl on that without fitting mods

maarud
The Scope
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:53:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Darpz
another problem with amarr. no other race has a problem fitting a full rack of its biggest guns like amarr do.

Mega can fit 7 425s no sweat
Raven can fit 6 siege no problem
mael can fit 8 1400s
pretty sure a pest can fit 6 1400s without fitting mods

try fitting 8 tachs on a apoc or even a abbadon? yeah gl on that without fitting mods


Pest needs PG Rigs to fit it

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:53:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Your graph is laughable, something is terribly wrong with it. Ingoring the fact that you are using 3 ships that are not gunboats to compare gun damage. You have the Apoc, with 8 guns, cant outdamage a typhoon with 4? It doesnt even get close to the 6 gun domi?

Lol, you do realise it is damage per gun in that graph right?

Darpz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:55:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: maarud
Originally by: Darpz
another problem with amarr. no other race has a problem fitting a full rack of its biggest guns like amarr do.

Mega can fit 7 425s no sweat
Raven can fit 6 siege no problem
mael can fit 8 1400s
pretty sure a pest can fit 6 1400s without fitting mods

try fitting 8 tachs on a apoc or even a abbadon? yeah gl on that without fitting mods


Pest needs PG Rigs to fit it


yeah wasn't sure on that one I don't fly mimn.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:58:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 08/06/2007 13:57:39
Originally by: maarud
Originally by: Darpz
another problem with amarr. no other race has a problem fitting a full rack of its biggest guns like amarr do.

Mega can fit 7 425s no sweat
Raven can fit 6 siege no problem
mael can fit 8 1400s
pretty sure a pest can fit 6 1400s without fitting mods

try fitting 8 tachs on a apoc or even a abbadon? yeah gl on that without fitting mods


Pest needs PG Rigs to fit it


It needs an RCU to fit an MWD, but it actualy fits 6x 1400 IIs with AWU 5.

Belenkas
FinFleet
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.06.08 13:59:00 - [22]
 

I am a bit worried about the 10 min no-jump timer for Titan after doomsday.
Some timer sure needed to be applied, but 10 minutes... Several dreads could kill the titan during the time. Looks like you will need HUGE support of capitals if you are willing to fire off the doomsday so that enemy doesn't jump a fleet of dreads and melt the titan in a matter of few minutes.

Looks like our titan pilots will have to be careful these days, but it does seem to be just that slightly too big nerf.

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2007.06.08 14:01:00 - [23]
 

Quote:
Doomsday devices have been revisited. The remote detonation capability through Cynosural Fields has been removed, now Titans must be present in the same area as their targets. Additionally, firing the doomsday devices prevents the Titan from using its jump drive for 10 minutes. This means the Titan must expose itself to enemy retribution after detonation



Does this mean you gusy are going to change the revelations trailer.
As you can clearly see titans fire tru portals.


murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2007.06.08 14:02:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: murder one on 08/06/2007 14:04:40
I'm wondering if Tux is in charge of the EANM changes, and is making Fendahl post, just so Fen can suck up the flames and not him. Laughing

Fen: don't use the Domi as the example for Gallente. Rarely does anyone use a blaster Domi, and I've literally never seen a Neutron Domi in PVP, unless it was on the test server, because they're 100% impractal to use in actual combat.

Do something real. Pick a Mega or maybe a Hype. Put the Geddon and Abaddon on the graph, not the Apoc. WTF is wrong with you people? That's the equivilant of Chevy making a commercial and putting it's Geo Metro (some small crap car) in the lineup for comparison with a Ford Mustang and a Dodge Viper, just to complain that Chevy needs more horsepower.

I think the Devs must have a very low opinion of the player base. You're treating us like we're stupid.

As was already iterated by Goumindong in his EXCELLENT post (GJ Goum), the EANM changes will solve nothing. The increase to CPU won't hurt 99% of setups. Only a few, and the people who's setups have been ruined will either A) buy faction items to make it fit/work or B) just not fly that setup anymore and fly something else that still works.

All you have accomplished by the EANM nerf is ****ing up one or two really fun ships, while the rest of the 'problem' ships continue on their merry way, the same as always.

I'm increadulous as to how a team of four people can sit around, discuss all the possible options for balancing this game, and come up with the horribly malformed ideas that are your game changes. I've never seen any single group of people more incompetent in my life.

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.06.08 14:05:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Aramendel on 08/06/2007 14:06:17
Originally by: Belenkas
Some timer sure needed to be applied, but 10 minutes... Several dreads could kill the titan during the time. Looks like you will need HUGE support of capitals if you are willing to fire off the doomsday so that enemy doesn't jump a fleet of dreads and melt the titan in a matter of few minutes.


Nope. You need some support, but not a HUGE number. With triage carriers can easily *sustainable* outrep more than their number in dreads on a titan (using 1 capital remote rep).

1.5 times their numbers in the worst case to be exact. If you go for unsustainable 3 reps a carrier can cancel the dps of 4 dreads for around 75 seconds (again worst case max dread dps scenario).

Numbers are here if you want to check them.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.06.08 14:07:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 08/06/2007 14:42:56
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Goumindong
Your graph is laughable, something is terribly wrong with it. Ingoring the fact that you are using 3 ships that are not gunboats to compare gun damage. You have the Apoc, with 8 guns, cant outdamage a typhoon with 4? It doesnt even get close to the 6 gun domi?

Lol, you do realise it is damage per gun in that graph right?


It cant be, or their numbers are wrong. But then again, if their numbers are wrong[and must are for other reasons as explained in my post]

3.234/7.88/.75 = .547028

3.6/7.88 = .4568

800mm on a phoon does 19.7% more damage than a megapulse on an Apoc.

ed; Of course they seem to be using t1 ammo and not factoring in resistances.

Which basically means that they have constructed a graph that means absolutly nothing.

edit: for instance against unhardened shield. Tech 1 ammo, normalized against the lowest damage dealer.

Apoc 1 gun: 1.179
Typhoon 1 gun: 1

Against unhardened armor:

Apoc 1 gun: 1
Typhoon 1 gun: 1.721

So against shield, the Apoc does 18% more dps. Against armor, the phoon does 72% more dps. [the phoon, with 4 guns, actualy does a full 86% of the apocs gun damage when both are shooting armor, with half the guns]

But the graph doesnt even come close to showing what the real damage looks like.

Which just makes it even more obvious that the developers are not balancing based on the what the weapons actualy do against ships when fitted on ships, but what a single weapon does. Its that stupid "autocannons do less DPS that is why they need two damage bonuses" myth coming back again[no, they have less turrets slots!]

edit again: Lets look at this against a common shield tank 2 inv, 1 em hardener+dc, and a common armor tank 2 eanm+DC.

Keep in mind that since 2 invuln is actualy, itself as strong as a hardener, no tech 1 ship will ever fit a tri-hardened shield tank over a em/inv/inv tank.

em/inv/inv[ingore the DC, it doesnt stack]

EM: 72.43%
EX: 79.31%
KN: 68.96%
TH: 58.616%

Apoc 1 gun: 1
Phoon 1 gun: 1.176

Such, a more reaonable graph, designed with an understanding of tanking mechanics and fittings, would show numbers that are significantly different.

Clone 1
Posted - 2007.06.08 14:11:00 - [27]
 

I am sorry, but these ideas of Amarr (Thats the correct spelling, Kieron Evil or Very Mad ) 'boosts' seem to me to be ideas born out of time constraints rather than actually thinking and solving the whole Amarr issue.



Nerftastic 4, I love it. Laughing



CCP Abathur


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.08 14:12:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Aramendel
Edited by: Aramendel on 08/06/2007 13:45:15
I wanted to comment this as well.

Quote:
While many capital ships fit smartbombs specifically to counter Warp Disruption Probes, it is possible to keep them out of harmís way with careful placement.


The whole problem is that you CANNOT do this due to smartbombs having bigger ranges than "on paper" for capitals.


We did look into this. We ran an Avatar with seven 10km smartbombs on our test server and set an Interdictor orbiting it at 15km constantly dropping bubbles. The smartbombs had no effect.

Darpz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.06.08 14:16:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Darpz on 08/06/2007 14:16:18
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: Aramendel
Edited by: Aramendel on 08/06/2007 13:45:15
I wanted to comment this as well.

Quote:
While many capital ships fit smartbombs specifically to counter Warp Disruption Probes, it is possible to keep them out of harmís way with careful placement.


The whole problem is that you CANNOT do this due to smartbombs having bigger ranges than "on paper" for capitals.


We did look into this. We ran an Avatar with seven 10km smartbombs on our test server and set an Interdictor orbiting it at 15km constantly dropping bubbles. The smartbombs had no effect.



now take that avatar and change its orientation. I beleave you'll find if the dictors is in the sweetspot it no longer will be and its bubble is blown, its VERY tricky to propery grab a avatar and its possible like you shown but when you need to hold that ship there for 4-5 min to kill it most likely and if hes competent the only thing that will kill him is lag.

and thats assuming the fact he is stupid enough not to start warp immediatly when he drops on grid to DD

Darpz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.06.08 14:19:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: clone 1
I am sorry, but these ideas of Amarr (Thats the correct spelling, Kieron Evil or Very Mad ) 'boosts' seem to me to be ideas born out of time constraints rather than actually thinking and solving the whole Amarr issue.



Nerftastic 4, I love it. Laughing





yah its rather comical how the amarr boost nerfs amarr ships the hardest


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