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Neslo
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:14:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: Luigi Thirty
So how do you make sure that one alliance doesn't blob the elections to get one person's 8 alts elected?


Perhaps by putting forward a couple things:

A) To participate you agree to get photographed and placed (with gamename on the website) with your "report" to the general population. IE 1 person with 8 alts can't be in the picture... it needs to be 8 people with their game name below their head.

B) CCP can tell if there are 8 different real people or 1 person with 8 chars. They simply deny the "person and say he's already accepted in a slot" This will make only one person participate or you will see sudden "withdrawls" if alts get to the "final picking stages"

C) I would suggest 1 player per alliance be nominated (not corp), then put those finalists to an EVE wide vote. (Also make rules like you alliance needs to have at least 100 people in it, so that we don't get these one man alliances putting themselvse forward, k thnx) It will develop a whole new level of politiking I fear, but with governmental transparency comes the darkside of government, it's elections.


Just a few suggestions.

Judas Lonestar
The Knights Templar
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:16:00 - [242]
 

Originally by: Susan Acid
Originally by: Judas Lonestar
Remember Enron? Remember Worldcom?

Those 2 damn near covered it all up, and the problems CCP has are a drop in the bucket compared to that.




Please,get a grip.Shocked


So your telling me it would be impssible for CCP to get rid of all evidence of any scandals or cheating before the committee got there??

Get a grip indeed. Shocked

You HONESTLY think CCP would knowingly let this audit committee find information proving they had dishonest actions? Hell, they might as well turn off the servers now if thats the case. If the audit team did find evidence of cheating can you even begin to imagine how damagingf that would be?

get a grip indeed. ugh

Neslo
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:20:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Judas Lonestar
Originally by: Susan Acid
Originally by: Judas Lonestar
Remember Enron? Remember Worldcom?

Those 2 damn near covered it all up, and the problems CCP has are a drop in the bucket compared to that.




Please,get a grip.Shocked


So your telling me it would be impssible for CCP to get rid of all evidence of any scandals or cheating before the committee got there??

Get a grip indeed. Shocked

You HONESTLY think CCP would knowingly let this audit committee find information proving they had dishonest actions? Hell, they might as well turn off the servers now if thats the case. If the audit team did find evidence of cheating can you even begin to imagine how damagingf that would be?

get a grip indeed. ugh


What's more damaging:

A) The Truth

B) or what people thing is the Truth?

Because look what happened when they didn't find anything. Everyone said "I can'trust them, because it was done all in house." So the challenge to them was "open your doors and we will believe you" and so now that they have, the next critism is going to be Coverup? Seriously buy this man a Tin Foil Hat.... the aliens are coming to get him.

Judas Lonestar
The Knights Templar
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:24:00 - [244]
 

Originally by: Neslo
Originally by: Judas Lonestar
Originally by: Susan Acid
Originally by: Judas Lonestar
Remember Enron? Remember Worldcom?

Those 2 damn near covered it all up, and the problems CCP has are a drop in the bucket compared to that.




Please,get a grip.Shocked


So your telling me it would be impssible for CCP to get rid of all evidence of any scandals or cheating before the committee got there??

Get a grip indeed. Shocked

You HONESTLY think CCP would knowingly let this audit committee find information proving they had dishonest actions? Hell, they might as well turn off the servers now if thats the case. If the audit team did find evidence of cheating can you even begin to imagine how damagingf that would be?

get a grip indeed. ugh


What's more damaging:

A) The Truth

B) or what people thing is the Truth?

Because look what happened when they didn't find anything. Everyone said "I can'trust them, because it was done all in house." So the challenge to them was "open your doors and we will believe you" and so now that they have, the next critism is going to be Coverup? Seriously buy this man a Tin Foil Hat.... the aliens are coming to get him.


HAHA. Yep, cause CCP will let documented proof of cheating to help BOB come to light.
Riiiiight. Keep pouring the Koolaid, theres lots here drinkin.

CyberChick
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:25:00 - [245]
 

I hope that this oversight committee is made up of non alliance/major alliance players, at least this way there can be no calls of foul play...

Maybe if players wish to change from non alliance/major alliance play style they could advise ccp to search for a replacement Smile

suza
Talocan Hive
Talocan United
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:30:00 - [246]
 

Having read the news article I am so pleased that they have put my mind at rest that there is no favouritism from CCP to any one allience..

See they even got quotes from a good and broud player base, I mean they would not have used only two BoB players Hmmmmmmmmm.


Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:35:00 - [247]
 

Nice idea. I nominate - me!
I can't wait to have the conversation with my wife, it will probably be something like, "Honey, I have to go to Iceland for a while." "Why?" she asks. "Well, you know that game I constantly play, you know, the one that you get angry at me for spending too much time with. Well, they want some of the players to fly to Iceland and make sure they are doing everything properly and I volunteered." "Honey, what are you doing?" "Honey, put down the knife..."

Hamfast
Gallente
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:36:00 - [248]
 

Funny, I have always figured that while folks at CCP may have bent and broken the rules (Shattered them in T20’s case) that CCP as a company was not at fault… at least not at fault for the cheating. I thought the steps they had taken when the T20 thing came to light were a good start, perhaps late, but a good start…

Then I see this article praising CCP and Eve in the New York Times… a NEWS Paper that buried a plot to blowup part of the city and the biggest Airport in the area (JFK International Airport) even with all the proof and arrests, on page 37… a Paper that Praises the prosecution of one person for lying under oath by a prosecutor that knew early on that there was no crime but went on a witch hunt, yet berated the prosecution of another man who knowingly lied to a grand jury in a real case… to say the NYT is biased is an understatement…

But as I read the article I realized that the NYT had no real idea how Eve works, had they, the article would have been vastly different… like “Empire Space is Safe”… and no mention of the Pure Capitalism that is the Eve Market place.

At the heart of the story is another attempt by CCP (Whom, as I said above, I have never held at fault in any of this) to try to allay the conspiracy fears…

9 players, voted on by the players… a great idea in theory, but god forbid some group is represented, not represented, over represented… so much for any credibility… will be given access… how much access? Will it be enough?? What was hidden??? Will they know what they are looking at, looking for????

More then 20 years ago now I had a problem with a bank… I lost several hundred dollars from my checking account via ATM’s… my book keeping at the time was sloppy, but not that sloppy… but I had no proof… so for 2 months, every time I needed money from the ATM, I took out the same amount… $40.00… if I needed more, I went several times and took out $40.00 at a time… I saved the slips, kept good notes on the time and dates… really cleaned up my book keeping… and in the middle of the second month, there was a withdrawal for $60.00… I took my slips, my statements and my notes to the bank, a week later they sent me a 1.5 inch by 3 inch slip of paper with some codes on it and said “See, proof you withdrew the money”… it was proof for them, but meant nothing to me… I changed banks and never had the problem again.

While I think this “Player Committee” sounds all well and good, I fear it will do more to fuel the fire, then to dowse the flames… but I wish you luck in finding folks that are knowledgeable enough to be able to audit you, non-biased enough to be creditable and willing to put their names and credentials on the line… because anything less will be a waste of time and money.

Ridley Tree
Veto.
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:37:00 - [249]
 

Originally by: NY Times
in favor of a mighty alliance of players called Band of Brothers.


And the BoB epeen has now reached epic proportions. Laughing

Good work guys, you've made the big time!

Red Rumurder
5punkorp
EternalRising
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:38:00 - [250]
 

Originally by: Yurii Chan
NYT is #1 American paper imo.


hehe that made me laugh

i like the idea CCP keep up the good work

VinceNoir
Amarr
Shade.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:41:00 - [251]
 

Ylarbo Janks tbh, his report back would lay waste to all who tried to compete.

Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:43:00 - [252]
 

I still say it's far far faaaaaar to early to judge whether this is an awesome or awful idea. Tons of details still have to be hammered out, about how people are selected and elected. The vote blob issue is a big one, in my opinion. Also, what powers do they have as this committee? Say they DO find something, then what? They get to write the press release? Spank the offending developer? Or just get the right to have their arm-waving posts about it stickied on the forum?

Personally I think it's an interesting concept and I'm looking forward to hearing more about what CCP has planned for it. But for the naysayers, put away your tinfoil hats until some real concrete details emerge.

Ammoina
University of Caille
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:48:00 - [253]
 

Shocked

Don't know if I like this solution or hate it. But it will lend CCP some serious legitimacy in the eyes of 90% of the player population.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:55:00 - [254]
 

Of course, the "oversight comitee" would have to be made up of players that have been playing longer as, say one year, and have never been part of any major alliance, nor interacted seriously with any major alliance.

CAREBEAR POWER !

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:58:00 - [255]
 


Send 9 BoB members over there... Laughing

Sorry, I had to.

Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:04:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: illusha
Damn that liberal bias! I thought it was a well written article and very funny in some areas.


Quote:
So now, in a sociological twist, the company that makes Eve, CCP, based in Iceland (population 300,000), says it will tackle the problem the way a democracy would. In what appears to be a first, the company plans to hold elections so that players can select members of an oversight committee.


Quote:
The company will then fly those players to Iceland regularly so they can audit CCP’s operations and report back to their player-constituents. And taking cues from transitions to democracy in the developing world, CCP says it will call in election monitors from universities in Europe and the United States.


Are you serious? I haven't heard CCP anounce this yet and this is really stupid. What kind of a professional and legit company lets non-employees audit them and look at the details of their operation? None that I can think of. Yes, they may hire an outside firm to do it, but they are professionals, not regular people that play a spacecraft game and take it too seriously. Why would you pay a lot of money to fly non-employees to do something you obviously don't want them to do? This won't save your credibility.

Are you going to pay the people of these committee for their working hours lost? How would they explain this to their boss, "sorry boss but I need to go to Iceland for a couple of weeks to tell some idiots how to run a game" "Are you serious? you're FIRED"

Your lack of intelligence once again surprises me CCP, good job again!

I'm sorry if you are to, but I personnaly don't have to explain my boss what I am doing in vacations. "Sorry Boss, I have to go to South of France for a little sunbath, drinking wine with lovely ladies.". Well, no. It's private. Nobody should know, or have to know.

It's a good thing. CCP must do that by players because we are the customers. No 3rd compagny audit could be satisfying enough to the players. Imagine you read that : "WhateverCorpYouDon'TKnowTheName said CCP is clean." Would you thrust them ?
And now : say a big big thrusted compagny like this exists. #1 Rolls Royce of IBM of the NASA. Do you really think they will charge less than CCP having to actually pay for 9 plane tickets ?

I think the NASA will come with 452526 people, charging 452526 plane tickets + isk/h employees (free for any player) + whatever charges (a few beers for the players would be enough) + benefits.

Now our benefits would be player-made opinion. It's nice.
the only wrong thing is we'll see "pick me, pick me, I'll do a great job" and actually just applying for the free plane ticket. :/

Godar Marak
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:04:00 - [257]
 

Those elected people will become powerfull = more bribes and dirty tricks.


Horrible idea!


CCP just needs to employ some strict guy that doesnt have any type of human emotions. A being that cant be reasoned with, cant be stopped, and will never backdown.

CCP should just hire a librarian.


Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:06:00 - [258]
 

Originally by: Neslo


What's more damaging:

A) The Truth

B) or what people thing is the Truth?



For me, it's B.

Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:10:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Ridley Tree
Originally by: NY Times
in favor of a mighty alliance of players called Band of Brothers.


And the BoB epeen has now reached epic proportions. Laughing

Good work guys, you've made the big time!

Well, Bob is strong, etc. Can't you agree with this ?

Thanos Draicon
Wolf Pack Mentality
Blood and Steel
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:10:00 - [260]
 

Originally by: Godar Marak

CCP just needs to employ some strict guy that doesnt have any type of human emotions. A being that cant be reasoned with, cant be stopped, and will never backdown.



Donald Rumsfeld probably wouldn't like Iceland.

TWAIN
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:14:00 - [261]
 

Edited by: TWAIN on 07/06/2007 18:20:42
Edited by: TWAIN on 07/06/2007 18:16:53
I really want this to be more than a popularity contest, or a cheap publicity stunt, but honestly how could it be? I really applaud CCP for making the effort in this, and it's a fine idea on paper, but somehow I doubt this will actually work as intended.

They need to hire a professional, third-party, external auditor, who can be directly contacted by the playerbase to voice our concerns.

Any member of this community who has any high degree of knowledge of this game's mechanics, politics, or community would inevitably draw public concern as to their agenda. That's essentialy everybody who would ever be nominated, or seek nomination. Nobody could be, or would be, above reproach. Issues of how long they should hold office really don't apply, since everybody will be seen as equally culpable. Anybody willing to do this better be prepared to have their name dragged through the mud, humiliated, and then stomped on repeatedly.

Further, there's really no way to encapsulate the concerns of this diverse a community with a single delegation. The idea circulating about the top 9 alliances getting a single delegate each? Preposterous. What about the other 75% of the players in 0.1+ space? The non-vocal majority of casual players who don't read the forums? Or how about the roleplayers? They have a stake in involvement regardless of their corps, considering a number of past incidents has involved them. And this should certainly not be something only so-called vets or community pillars should be allowed to particpate in, as somebody who started in the last six months would have just as many concerns that warrant addressing. And, heaven forbid, what could possibly be done to prevent the committee itself from being corrupted, bought off, or otherwise become a perversion of itself?

And really now, how many people around here can code in Python, let alone the (admittedly) giberish extensions they've made to it? Hell, how many people in the world? How many people in this community would have technical expertise to interpret their database, but not be in a position that would warrant concern over their access or knowledge of it at the end of the day? At least an external auditor would have the resources to hire independent programming experts to verify/disprove customer concerns.

There are literally thousands of companies who have people like this on staff already, so it begs the real question:

If they're serious about true transparency, why aren't they taking serious steps to ensure it?

More direct involvement in CCPs affairs by the playerbase (and vice versa) is exactly what this situation does not need. With concerns raised from recruiting ISDs, GMs, and devs right out of the (still active) playerbase, what on earth makes anyone think the committee will be any less scutinized in their actions? Where would it end -- an internal affairs program for the committee itself? That would just end up with more redirected blame and community drama. Nobody here wants that.

Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:15:00 - [262]
 

Originally by: Godar Marak
Those elected people will become powerfull = more bribes and dirty tricks.


Horrible idea!


CCP just needs to employ some strict guy that doesnt have any type of human emotions. A being that cant be reasoned with, cant be stopped, and will never backdown.

CCP should just hire a librarian.



Are you a librarian ? Laughing

These 9 people HAVE TO represent Eve player base. So I guess we will see just say, 2 Bob/Alliance guy, 2 Coalition guys, 3 not aligned 0.0 guy and rest of Empire.

Buxaroo
Gallente
The Army of The Ori
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:17:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: Kraven Kor


God it makes me sad to see you with that Corp Tag, Bux-bux :(


Awww Kraven, I am still the luvable motormouth you remember me asLaughing.

I wish I could convince you about BoB not being this ebil cheating juggernaut. I wouldn't be with them if I thought otherwise. Everyone knows my staunch dislike for script kiddies in CS, let alone an important game like this.

But having said that, come to the darkside KravenVery Happy


Thanos Draicon
Wolf Pack Mentality
Blood and Steel
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:20:00 - [264]
 

Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: Godar Marak
Those elected people will become powerfull = more bribes and dirty tricks.


Horrible idea!


CCP just needs to employ some strict guy that doesnt have any type of human emotions. A being that cant be reasoned with, cant be stopped, and will never backdown.

CCP should just hire a librarian.



Are you a librarian ? Laughing

These 9 people HAVE TO represent Eve player base. So I guess we will see just say, 2 Bob/Alliance guy, 2 Coalition guys, 3 not aligned 0.0 guy and rest of Empire.


...I think they would kill each other on the plane. Shocked

Buxaroo
Gallente
The Army of The Ori
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:21:00 - [265]
 

Originally by: Ridley Tree
Originally by: NY Times
in favor of a mighty alliance of players called Band of Brothers.


And the BoB epeen has now reached epic proportions. Laughing

Good work guys, you've made the big time!


/me gets tape measure out

Muwhahahahah!
Muwhahahahaha!
Muwhahahahahah!




Lady Branwen
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:25:00 - [266]
 

Edited by: Lady Branwen on 07/06/2007 18:24:45
CCP if your really serious about this, and it's not something some pecker head dreampt up on MSN, then you need to hire a firm of Pro's who know how to do this sort of thing, not take a bunch of numpties who, as someone said "take an internet spaceship game far to seriously" and who i might add know sod all about auditing their toe nails, let alone a large company.
Let a pro company do the job properly Cool

Tennessee Jack
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:25:00 - [267]
 

You are going to bring 9 people.. who have no clue on Eve Online's programming.. No expertise on how to be an auditor as a method of bringing trust into a community?

Why? How does this comfort.. or FIX anything.

You broke the economy and unbalanced the game... YOU broke it.. and you haven't bothered to fix it. And now you think shipping 9 people over for a week to do "oversight" will make everything better? If you believe that's true... you should stick your buddy in a doorway and slam the door shut.

Why don't you Buy a Monkey and say that HE SAID that the Dev's are legit. There is no way a bunch of Popular Community people can recognize fraud, see illegal incidents, find where and why CCP went wrong. These people are not trained in such methodologies, have no expertise in this area.. nor know what the heck they are looking at or for. "Inspect every Nook and Cranny?" Do you really believe we all are THAT STUPID?

I'm sorry.. but this is a bullsh-- publicity stunt.

MajikKat
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:26:00 - [268]
 

You know as I sit here at work I kinda feel bad for CCP in all this....you see I'm comparing my workplace with CCP.

I work in a family owned software company who goes the extra mile to have a strong relationship with customers. I think the bulk of our customers really enjoy the extra attention and support that they don't receive from bigger companies of our similar product line.

I figure CCP started as the company that wanted strong ties with the community in Eve. They have the Fanfest where everyone gets to meet and hang out with the developers and people of CCP. Since CCP appear to be fluffy cuddly folks you can't help but fall in love and friendships are forged. I'm going to say that 90% of these friendships are nothing more, but then you have 10% of these friendships that abuse this. Wanting things, Asking things, ....etc.

Shame really....

Cipher7
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:29:00 - [269]
 


People hate BoB for the same reason people hate USA.

They are too strong and nobody can beat them.

If you add a "player oversight process" they will simply accuse the process of being rigged.

People accuse primarily to make themselves feel better, it is an ego booster to console themselves for losing.

Del369
Caldari
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:34:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: Cipher7

People hate BoB for the same reason people hate USA.

They are too strong and nobody can beat them.

If you add a "player oversight process" they will simply accuse the process of being rigged.

People accuse primarily to make themselves feel better, it is an ego booster to console themselves for losing.

VVV Wink


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