open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Story in the New York Times.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 : last (16)

Author Topic

Maglorre
Posted - 2007.06.08 02:31:00 - [361]
 

First up we really don't know the full deal yet. Odd that CCP have not posted anything in their own news or forums yet.

Secondly, I must agree to an extent with people calling for established 3rd party auditors. Seriously, a lot of the players in this game wouldn't have a clue where to start with a serious audit let alone how to do so in a fair and unbiased manner. That said, there is a place for player representation in an audit process.

An external 3rd party would not be aware of the concerns of the players and what it is that really needs to be addressed. So by all means include player representatives in the process but please ensure that is is directed by professionals who know what the hell they are doing.

Another thing that people seem to be jumping on is the belief that these auditors will be trawling through logs looking for evidence. I certainly hope that will NOT be the case and I doubt it will be due to privacy concerns.

What these people should be looking at are processes and systems. Are the processes suitable, is there any loop holes, are the processes being followed, are the systems there to support these processes and so on. That is what this type of audit is all about, they are not witch hunts.

If there is any flaws in the processes identified by the audits, then you can use that information to start looking for fraudulent activity.

As a matter of fact fraud investigations are often undertaken in the guise of process reviews as it's an excellent method of collecting data and finding loopholes and then targeting those loopholes. It's amazing how many people happily assist in finding the rope with which they are subsequently hung Very Happy

Ashis
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.06.08 02:59:00 - [362]
 

Edited by: Ashis on 08/06/2007 03:00:48
A very commendable commitment and first step.

However, nothing is gained by this until it is properly, and transparently executed.

Nothing is gained -- except for the first time I feel hopeful that there may be a path to get things back on track. Albeit a long and difficult one with many logistical problems to be overcome (already being pointed out in this thread, and many many more not even thought of yet).

Still, there is hope.

Thank you Hilmar.

Serendipity007
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.06.08 03:02:00 - [363]
 

Originally by: Maglorre
Originally by: Serendipity007

Stuff about committees and constitutions and... stuff


Have you ever read "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" by Robert A. Heinline?


No, should I have?

Could you briefly explain the book?

Hammer Judge
Southern Cross Incorporated
Angels Of Discord
Posted - 2007.06.08 03:04:00 - [364]
 

This is an incredible initiative.

Taikun Brunel
Gallente
Jovoso
Teldar Paper
Posted - 2007.06.08 03:40:00 - [365]
 

Edited by: Taikun Brunel on 08/06/2007 03:51:27
Quote:
So now, in a sociological twist, the company that makes Eve, CCP, based in Iceland (population 300,000), says it will tackle the problem the way a democracy would. In what appears to be a first, the company plans to hold elections so that players can select members of an oversight committee.


Because CCP experiement with democracy in these forums have worked so very well.

This will be nothing but a poularity content with representatives of the largest alliances having a voice. Accordingly issues raised will be relevent to their interests and needs.

Sounds like nothing more than media spin pandering to the liberal readers of ther NY Times. I was surprised not to read it was George Bush's fault for lag.

Innovative, no. Been done before in many games. Everquest had class representatives put forward by their respective communities to organise information and top 10 issues list. Didn't work for them, but CCP thinks this is new and different? Why?

Because the dullards who play this game are somehow more mature and sophisticated than those of other MMORPGs??

Give me a break. Don't get sucked in by media hype and experience the tiny buzz but empty existance that level of thinking brings.


Finally we already have an oversight group. THESE FRIKKING FORUMS!

What CCP wants to do is to deal with a smaller bribeable group of panderers who can be convenient scapegoats if things go wrong. Not to mention easily replaceable if they get too militant.

Predicatable and bad move by CCP IMO.

Thesas
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2007.06.08 04:34:00 - [366]
 

The NYT placing this story under the “arts” should indicate the nature of this effort. Theater is a useful public relations tool and this smells quite like professional PR. It is an ingenious idea and Mr. Petursson is quite clever. To counter the negative drama will of course require positive drama to encompass and build upon it. The New York Times article combined with advertising and a dash of PR is an excellent means to draw attention to Eve.. Good show.

The elections are a novel twist but I hope CCP recognizes the fine line they walk in an effort like this. If this elected group is not widely viewed as above reproach, it will create more negative drama and press than good. The professionalism and ability of elected gamers will be at issue as this effort moves forward. I would hope that a few credible experts will be in that mix as well, or the results will be meaningless.

In my mind, there is but one thing that matters, and that is what has kept me on the fence waiting to decide on continuing this game. This theater will not distract many from what they require to continue in Eve. I suspect that I am not alone in my desire to see a basic policy defined that insures the integrity and fairness of this game. The present status quo and perception of favoritism is quite damning to this game. At the end of this theater, that is what is going to matter to this one customer.

Delving into past circumstances and allegations are futile, and irrelevant to the people who simply want to know that regardless of what has happened before, what happens henceforth shall be equitable to all concerned. A good show to be sure, but we shall see what the reviews say afterwards.

Kuseka Adama
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Posted - 2007.06.08 04:59:00 - [367]
 

Please get it right. Its the new york slimes.

I hate this paper it is rife with bias it never prints the whole truth and it has let its people get away with degrading the term journalist time and time again. It was this newspaper among others that made sure i NEVER got into that field i couldnt take that kind of self abuse.

Journalists these days have no balls no guts and care only about what their bosses tell them to care about. I honestly dont care what this article says and i likely wont read it. From what i have read in this thread something might happen. But the fact is unless CCP comes out publicly and says its going to there is no way you can confirm jack. Leave it be and consider the damned sources.

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.06.08 05:00:00 - [368]
 

Originally by: Kuseka Adama
Please get it right. Its the new york slimes.

I hate this paper it is rife with bias it never prints the whole truth and it has let its people get away with degrading the term journalist time and time again. It was this newspaper among others that made sure i NEVER got into that field i couldnt take that kind of self abuse.

Journalists these days have no balls no guts and care only about what their bosses tell them to care about. I honestly dont care what this article says and i likely wont read it. From what i have read in this thread something might happen. But the fact is unless CCP comes out publicly and says its going to there is no way you can confirm jack. Leave it be and consider the damned sources.

Troll much? Laughing

FarScape III
Journey On Squad
Posted - 2007.06.08 05:09:00 - [369]
 

Edited by: FarScape III on 08/06/2007 05:19:17
As a newspaper that is looked at by non gamers it show them some of the coolest aspects of EVE like the one world and how important it is.

And how EVE smaller then the WoW MMO has even much larger Alliances.

Your average person out there is going to be wowed but in an EVE sort of way.

P.S. WoW being the largest still does not compare to EVE for these reasons.

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
Please get it right. Its the new york slimes.

I hate this paper it is rife with bias it never prints the whole truth and it has let its people get away with degrading the term journalist time and time again. It was this newspaper among others that made sure i NEVER got into that field i couldn’t take that kind of self abuse.

Journalists these days have no balls no guts and care only about what their bosses tell them to care about. I honestly dont care what this article says and i likely wont read it. From what i have read in this thread something might happen. But the fact is unless CCP comes out publicly and says its going to there is no way you can confirm jack. Leave it be and consider the damned sources.

Troll much? Laughing

Dark Shikari, I did not see you up there, how are ya dude? :)

Any ways the troll is the one who is biased and NY times may have their own opinion no more then any one or thing else.

As long as I see truth or stories I'm interested in, if not, so what, I read something else.

This story about EVE is informative and fine by me. I'm glad they printed it.

Is the story true, we shall see, just like anything, that is all we can do.

You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.

Phoebus Athenian
Gallente
Epicurean Circle
Posted - 2007.06.08 05:14:00 - [370]
 

*Applauds*
Yes, you've done it!
Transparency is the way, and... wow I'm amazed that you're actually listening to your community.

Two thumbs up...

I'm looking forward to hearing from this democratic effort.

Very HappyExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamation

Kuseka Adama
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Posted - 2007.06.08 05:18:00 - [371]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
Please get it right. Its the new york slimes.

I hate this paper it is rife with bias it never prints the whole truth and it has let its people get away with degrading the term journalist time and time again. It was this newspaper among others that made sure i NEVER got into that field i couldnt take that kind of self abuse.

Journalists these days have no balls no guts and care only about what their bosses tell them to care about. I honestly dont care what this article says and i likely wont read it. From what i have read in this thread something might happen. But the fact is unless CCP comes out publicly and says its going to there is no way you can confirm jack. Leave it be and consider the damned sources.

Troll much? Laughing


actually no. I have a particular dislike for this newspaper and its affiliates due to recent incidents and the general degredation of a once honorable profession. Of which they had a key hand. To see it lauded about with such authority as if it actually means something annoys me. The NYT is quickly becoming irrelevent. All i am saying is consider the source of this article before believing its validity.

FarScape III
Journey On Squad
Posted - 2007.06.08 05:24:00 - [372]
 

Edited by: FarScape III on 08/06/2007 05:22:53
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
Please get it right. Its the new york slimes.

I hate this paper it is rife with bias it never prints the whole truth and it has let its people get away with degrading the term journalist time and time again. It was this newspaper among others that made sure i NEVER got into that field i couldnt take that kind of self abuse.

Journalists these days have no balls no guts and care only about what their bosses tell them to care about. I honestly dont care what this article says and i likely wont read it. From what i have read in this thread something might happen. But the fact is unless CCP comes out publicly and says its going to there is no way you can confirm jack. Leave it be and consider the damned sources.

Troll much? Laughing


actually no. I have a particular dislike for this newspaper and its affiliates due to recent incidents and the general degredation of a once honorable profession. Of which they had a key hand. To see it lauded about with such authority as if it actually means something annoys me. The NYT is quickly becoming irrelevent. All i am saying is consider the source of this article before believing its validity.


You do not like the paper so you do not read it, cool

No problem. Then do not read it, especialy since you're in a free country and will not get killed for not reading it. Very Happy

I have no love for the NY times either but the story is a good one IMO.

Taikun Brunel
Gallente
Jovoso
Teldar Paper
Posted - 2007.06.08 05:29:00 - [373]
 

Originally by: Phoebus Athenian
*Applauds*
Yes, you've done it!
Transparency is the way, and... wow I'm amazed that you're actually listening to your community.

Two thumbs up...

I'm looking forward to hearing from this democratic effort.

Very HappyExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamation


See above for definition of a kool-aid drinker.

Richard Aiel
Caldari
Umbra Exitium
Order Of The Unforgiving
Posted - 2007.06.08 06:04:00 - [374]
 

"The company will then fly those players to Iceland regularly so they can audit CCP’s operations and report back to their player-constituents."

Honestly, holy crap who could DO that regularily??

Am I the only relatively poor guy in this game? The only guy that has a normal job?

I damn sure couldnt take that kinda time off on a regular basis. I only get 2 weeks every 6 MONTHS to take off in Vaca time - an thats UNPAID BTW

Yeah, they pay you but are they gonna find a new job for you when you get back? Cause flying to Iceland more than once in six months is gonna cost me my current one...

FarScape III
Journey On Squad
Posted - 2007.06.08 06:06:00 - [375]
 

After reading the NY time’s article I get this gist...

BoB wants to take over the entire EVE galaxy? Why? Sounds boring :)

They sound like that one thing in Star Wars, "The Empire"

You join them out of necessity but you're not really free.

Are they like that though? I’m not sure.

If they are really good, then it sounds like it is just some governing force, boring ustelling us what to do and were to go.

I'm not saying I'm right or want to join the rebellion or anything, it just reminds me of the Empire, kinda funny I think.

is 0.0 really 0.0 if it is controlled?

Seth Enkar
Gallente
High Guard Argosy
Rising Sun Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.08 06:07:00 - [376]
 

Edited by: Seth Enkar on 08/06/2007 06:13:20
Edited by: Seth Enkar on 08/06/2007 06:12:07
Elections? Oversight Committee? What a crock of ****. I agree it's a good idea, but there's NO way that the representatives are going to be truly representative of everyone in eve unless certain safe-guards are put in place. hell, i'd go so far as to say that given the sheer SIZE of the voting block that BoB, Goonswarm, and the other big alliances control, most, if not all of these "Oversight Representatives" will be chosen by these big alliances. i personally think the big alliances should be barred from having any of their people anywhere near this. This way, it's guaranteed that you get a committee of the people, for the people. Like most everyone else in this thread, i'd love like hell to get nominated.

EDIT: What's really funny is that spelling out safe-guards as one word with no dash causes the F, E, and G to be starred out..what's up with that?

Hitake Kakshi
Posted - 2007.06.08 06:10:00 - [377]
 

Edited by: Hitake Kakshi on 08/06/2007 06:09:57
never mind.

Seth Enkar
Gallente
High Guard Argosy
Rising Sun Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.08 06:13:00 - [378]
 

Originally by: Richard Aiel
"The company will then fly those players to Iceland regularly so they can audit CCP’s operations and report back to their player-constituents."

Honestly, holy crap who could DO that regularily??

Am I the only relatively poor guy in this game? The only guy that has a normal job?

I damn sure couldnt take that kinda time off on a regular basis. I only get 2 weeks every 6 MONTHS to take off in Vaca time - an thats UNPAID BTW

Yeah, they pay you but are they gonna find a new job for you when you get back? Cause flying to Iceland more than once in six months is gonna cost me my current one...


lol i'm terribly poor. i'm fairly certain you make more than me, and i don't even know wtf you do. Very Happy

But even though i am perpetually broke, If elected to a position like this, i'd take time off (hell, make the time even) to go do this. It'd be not only cool as hell, but it's a good thing to do. Stuff like this is a calling.

Kuseka Adama
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Posted - 2007.06.08 06:15:00 - [379]
 

On a more serious note i would suggest that if this actually happens that each alliance get ONE rep. Period end of story. Alliance leadership gets to choose who.

If there is any intimidation on by any alliance to another that alliance loses its slot in this potential group for a period of no less than three months.

Hitake Kakshi
Posted - 2007.06.08 06:17:00 - [380]
 

Originally by: Kuseka Adama
On a more serious note i would suggest that if this actually happens that each alliance get ONE rep. Period end of story. Alliance leadership gets to choose who.

If there is any intimidation on by any alliance to another that alliance loses its slot in this potential group for a period of no less than three months.


Now are you talking one alliance rep in ADDITION to the 9 chosen, or are you suggesting that they be part of the 9 chosen?..i mean how many alliances are there? that's a pretty tall order.

Kuseka Adama
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Posted - 2007.06.08 06:21:00 - [381]
 

Originally by: Hitake Kakshi
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
On a more serious note i would suggest that if this actually happens that each alliance get ONE rep. Period end of story. Alliance leadership gets to choose who.

If there is any intimidation on by any alliance to another that alliance loses its slot in this potential group for a period of no less than three months.


Now are you talking one alliance rep in ADDITION to the 9 chosen, or are you suggesting that they be part of the 9 chosen?..i mean how many alliances are there? that's a pretty tall order.


No flat out remove the nine chosen and give every alliance one voice. Otherwise its going to be exactly as predicted by others goonswarm and bob and all the other massive alliances will have their own slots and none of the lesser alliances/single corps will have a say at all.

There is a significant problem with what is being requested here the: fact that so many are consolidated. It is likely that alliances like roadkill Red alliance BoB Goonswarm and others with over 1500 players would flat out DOMINATE any serious vote taking through either intmidiation or flat out having more people than the others. This has to be addressed before this vote can take place.

Seth Enkar
Gallente
High Guard Argosy
Rising Sun Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.08 06:35:00 - [382]
 

Originally by: Kuseka Adama
Originally by: Hitake Kakshi
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
On a more serious note i would suggest that if this actually happens that each alliance get ONE rep. Period end of story. Alliance leadership gets to choose who.

If there is any intimidation on by any alliance to another that alliance loses its slot in this potential group for a period of no less than three months.


Now are you talking one alliance rep in ADDITION to the 9 chosen, or are you suggesting that they be part of the 9 chosen?..i mean how many alliances are there? that's a pretty tall order.


No flat out remove the nine chosen and give every alliance one voice. Otherwise its going to be exactly as predicted by others goonswarm and bob and all the other massive alliances will have their own slots and none of the lesser alliances/single corps will have a say at all.

There is a significant problem with what is being requested here the: fact that so many are consolidated. It is likely that alliances like roadkill Red alliance BoB Goonswarm and others with over 1500 players would flat out DOMINATE any serious vote taking through either intmidiation or flat out having more people than the others. This has to be addressed before this vote can take place.


I completely agree with most of that (i'm kakshi by the way, my default character setting was messed up), which is why i suggested that the alliances specifically be barred from having representatives. The logistics of sending THAT many people to iceland on a regular basis MUST be considered. 9 is a good number. they should all be duly elected representatives of the player base, NOT of the alliances.

FarScape III
Journey On Squad
Posted - 2007.06.08 06:43:00 - [383]
 

Edited by: FarScape III on 08/06/2007 06:45:48
Edited by: FarScape III on 08/06/2007 06:43:57
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
Originally by: Hitake Kakshi
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
On a more serious note i would suggest that if this actually happens that each alliance get ONE rep. Period end of story. Alliance leadership gets to choose who.

If there is any intimidation on by any alliance to another that alliance loses its slot in this potential group for a period of no less than three months.


Now are you talking one alliance rep in ADDITION to the 9 chosen, or are you suggesting that they be part of the 9 chosen?..i mean how many alliances are there? that's a pretty tall order.


No flat out remove the nine chosen and give every alliance one voice. Otherwise its going to be exactly as predicted by others goonswarm and bob and all the other massive alliances will have their own slots and none of the lesser alliances/single corps will have a say at all.

There is a significant problem with what is being requested here the: fact that so many are consolidated. It is likely that alliances like roadkill Red alliance BoB Goonswarm and others with over 1500 players would flat out DOMINATE any serious vote taking through either intmidiation or flat out having more people than the others. This has to be addressed before this vote can take place.


good points, reminds me of how they elect those people that are on that one thing that over sees the earth. What are they called?

hold on going to google........

Nope can't find it that way

going to Wikipedia..

Got it! Very HappyUnited Nations

So yeah, that is ok, maybe CCP will do something like that, I bet there will be a huge debate.

Kuseka Adama
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Posted - 2007.06.08 06:47:00 - [384]
 

Originally by: Seth Enkar

I completely agree with most of that (i'm kakshi by the way, my default character setting was messed up), which is why i suggested that the alliances specifically be barred from having representatives. The logistics of sending THAT many people to iceland on a regular basis MUST be considered. 9 is a good number. they should all be duly elected representatives of the player base, NOT of the alliances.


I cant agree completely. The alliances have players too. The fact is we are looking at forming one ourselves. Nothing is set in stone yet but we would then be among the 'not allowed' even if we are small. The problem i have with this is making sure everyone is fairly elected. I would set it up like this:

4 reps MUST come from non aligned corps: (THEY COULD NOT BE NPC CORPS) 4 reps MUST come from alliances. Two codicils You must of been part of a non aligned corp for...call it 6 months before the vote is called. THE CORP MUST ALSO OF BEEN NON ALIGNED FOR THAT AMOUNT OF TIME! (this refers to nominations) The same would work for alliances. Everyone could vote but not everyone could be nominated. But each faction would then vote for its own candidates Bob would be excluded from nominations for VERY obvious reasons. Though they should be allowed to vote The same circumstances could well apply to goon swarm or any alliance above 2500 really. This then leaves a voting base (based on numbers) that honestly could be swayed. the 9th and final slot i would put up to a FULL voting of the eve playerbase. About the best way you could do it imo.

Kuseka Adama
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Posted - 2007.06.08 06:48:00 - [385]
 

Originally by: FarScape III
Edited by: FarScape III on 08/06/2007 06:45:48
Edited by: FarScape III on 08/06/2007 06:43:57
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
Originally by: Hitake Kakshi
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
On a more serious note i would suggest that if this actually happens that each alliance get ONE rep. Period end of story. Alliance leadership gets to choose who.

If there is any intimidation on by any alliance to another that alliance loses its slot in this potential group for a period of no less than three months.


Now are you talking one alliance rep in ADDITION to the 9 chosen, or are you suggesting that they be part of the 9 chosen?..i mean how many alliances are there? that's a pretty tall order.


No flat out remove the nine chosen and give every alliance one voice. Otherwise its going to be exactly as predicted by others goonswarm and bob and all the other massive alliances will have their own slots and none of the lesser alliances/single corps will have a say at all.

There is a significant problem with what is being requested here the: fact that so many are consolidated. It is likely that alliances like roadkill Red alliance BoB Goonswarm and others with over 1500 players would flat out DOMINATE any serious vote taking through either intmidiation or flat out having more people than the others. This has to be addressed before this vote can take place.


good points, reminds me of how they elect those people that are on that one thing that over sees the earth. What are they called?

hold on going to google........

Nope can't find it that way

going to Wikipedia..

Got it! Very HappyUnited Nations

So yeah, that is ok, maybe CCP will do something like that, I bet there will be a huge debate.



I must admit you have me there and i am no friend of the U.N. But i am more concerned with rigged results than i am with the potential chaos of my original idea.

This has to be as clean as an operating room and as fair as king solomon an EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TASK even in the best circumstances.

Max Godsnottlingson
Amarr
Max G Storage and Logistics
Posted - 2007.06.08 07:00:00 - [386]
 

No matter if you agree with this idea or not, it strikes me that this is either a very brave idea, or very stupid idea on the part of CCP.
If it is implemented, but then not seen by the majority of the player base to be 100% above board and honest it will simply feed the fires started by the conspiracy theorists and could even hurt Eve badly if it convinces enough players that it is just a sham used by CCP as a cover for underhand practices.
Don't get me wrong. I personnaly think it's a brilliant idea, but one that poses a lot of dangers, and would hate to see people leaving in droves beacuse it wasn't implemented right and it's all blown up in CCP's face

Max Godsnottlingson
Amarr
Max G Storage and Logistics
Posted - 2007.06.08 07:04:00 - [387]
 

Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson on 08/06/2007 07:03:13
Originally by: Kuseka Adama
On a more serious note i would suggest that if this actually happens that each alliance get ONE rep. Period end of story. Alliance leadership gets to choose who.

If there is any intimidation on by any alliance to another that alliance loses its slot in this potential group for a period of no less than three months.


Not a bad idea, but how would you ensure that all the players who are not in an alliance, or in an allaince deemed too small to be worthy of having a rep gets clear representation? The one group that is probably still the largest group by far too

Callthetruth
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.06.08 07:07:00 - [388]
 

sirmolles ego must be growing by the day

Sinder Ohm
Demonic Corp
G00DFELLAS
Posted - 2007.06.08 07:14:00 - [389]
 

Originally by: Taikun Brunel
Originally by: Phoebus Athenian
*Applauds*
Yes, you've done it!
Transparency is the way, and... wow I'm amazed that you're actually listening to your community.

Two thumbs up...

I'm looking forward to hearing from this democratic effort.

Very HappyExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamation


See above for definition of a kool-aid drinker.


Someone got out of the bed on wrong side of the bed?Rolling Eyes

both you posts have been cynical looks like you will never be satisfied, if you dont like it here stf off!!

CCP I was honestly pleasantly suprised by this article, I hope this is a sincere gesture from CCP and that it improves CCP's image, btw nice free advertising in the New york times.

Sartaron
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2007.06.08 07:20:00 - [390]
 

RL persons should be elected. Not "Characters".
It is about auditing a company and its processes.
Customers elect auditors.


Pages: first : previous : ... 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 : last (16)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only