open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Story in the New York Times.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 : last (16)

Author Topic

Gorion Wassenar
Caldari
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.06.07 22:56:00 - [331]
 

I look forward to more information being released as I find this idea very interesting.

Aramark
Omega Enterprises
0mega Factor
Posted - 2007.06.07 23:01:00 - [332]
 

members have been picked:

Galavet
Blacklight
SirMolle
Cell Satimo
Tholarim
TWD

Virtuozzo
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.06.07 23:16:00 - [333]
 

Originally by: Aramark
members have been picked:

Galavet
Blacklight
SirMolle
Cell Satimo
Tholarim
TWD


All Lunas's alts, so everything's cool.

j/k

breathe people, don't assume, don't presume, we have to wait for details.

Tharrn
Amarr
Epitoth Fleet Yards
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.07 23:20:00 - [334]
 

May be cool for those 9 people to visit CCP... but what purpose does that really serve? Or do they get to see which developer is playing what characters in the game. Sounds more like an open door day - and when we have one of those you don't see us playing EVE in the office either :P

Coran Ordus
Dominion Arms Supply
Posted - 2007.06.07 23:25:00 - [335]
 

Originally by: Tharrn
May be cool for those 9 people to visit CCP... but what purpose does that really serve? Or do they get to see which developer is playing what characters in the game. Sounds more like an open door day - and when we have one of those you don't see us playing EVE in the office either :P



I assume the idea is that they're not touring the labs and going 'oo', but saying 'What does an audit trail on a petition look like?' and 'Okay, go insert something into the database, and show me how that's supposed to be caught'.

They're basically elected auditors. Which makes me wonder if they'll be qualified, in some respects. I'd think you'd want to lean towards people with a knowledge of computer science, who are aware of vulnerabilities and ways around things. (And also who will understand when things are not possible/feasible without lengthy explainations and analogies.)

Kredan Rasok
Posted - 2007.06.07 23:27:00 - [336]
 

two simple rules should apply to candidates

(1) NOT currently a member of any alliance regardless of size.

(2) NO forum celebrities. (Dark Shikari, Winterblink etc)

Tharrn
Amarr
Epitoth Fleet Yards
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.07 23:29:00 - [337]
 

Originally by: Coran Ordus


I assume the idea is that they're not touring the labs and going 'oo', but saying 'What does an audit trail on a petition look like?' and 'Okay, go insert something into the database, and show me how that's supposed to be caught'.




Guess I wouldn't be qualified then as I'd rather like to see the goodies and go 'Oooh'. :P

Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
Posted - 2007.06.07 23:32:00 - [338]
 

Originally by: Blacklight
Well if nothing else this thread gave me a laugh.

There's been no details released about how it's going to work, how people will be selected, what information they'll have access to or what their real remit will be.... and yet we've eleven pages already of people frothing at the mouth about it (not to mention getting onto Enron and powercuts in California) Rolling Eyes

I think I'll just wait and see what happens.



It took eleven pages to get a sensible post... and guess who made it?

Dasani Waters
Involuntary Trepanation
Posted - 2007.06.07 23:36:00 - [339]
 

Originally by: Lord Seth
Edited by: Lord Seth on 07/06/2007 07:28:09
Originally by: illusha
Damn that liberal bias! I thought it was a well written article and very funny in some areas.


Quote:
So now, in a sociological twist, the company that makes Eve, CCP, based in Iceland (population 300,000), says it will tackle the problem the way a democracy would. In what appears to be a first, the company plans to hold elections so that players can select members of an oversight committee.




Quote:
The company will then fly those players to Iceland regularly so they can audit CCP’s operations and report back to their player-constituents. And taking cues from transitions to democracy in the developing world, CCP says it will call in election monitors from universities in Europe and the United States.


Are you serious? I haven't heard CCP anounce this yet and this is really stupid. What kind of a professional and legit company lets non-employees audit them and look at the details of their operation? None that I can think of. Yes, they may hire an outside firm to do it, but they are professionals, not regular people that play a spacecraft game and take it too seriously. Why would you pay a lot of money to fly non-employees to do something you obviously don't want them to do? This won't save your credibility.

Are you going to pay the people of these committee for their working hours lost? How would they explain this to their boss, "sorry boss but I need to go to Iceland for a couple of weeks to tell some idiots how to run a game" "Are you serious? you're FIRED"

Your lack of intelligence once again surprises me CCP, good job again!


OK DUDE!!! lol
Why do ppl have ISO audits? To make the public happy, right? Why make the public happy? Cause when your ISO you can go public with confidence. (by public Im talking about stock market)

Now CCP is doing the same thing a public company would do to make their stocks strong except its not the stock holders you need to make happy its the ppl that play your game.
I cant believe CCP tolerates ppl like yourself attacking them like this your statements are RUDE AND UNCALLED FOR!!!





I'm glad CCP respects and tolerates all customers including you, me, and illusha. If CCP banned everyone who questioned their words and actions, EVE would lose the diversity of its player group and it would slowly die.

In fact, if CCP took that attitude, they would never have allowed themselves to be audited by a bunch of potentially hostile players. So thank CCP for being concerned with pleasing ALL their customers.

Gorken
Fire House Industries
Posted - 2007.06.07 23:38:00 - [340]
 

I know that I've been fussy about the allegations for the few times I have posted, but I will admitt that I cannot willingly stop playing this game no matter how hard I try. Yes, this article is very relieving and takes away some of the animosity, however I would still play even if these new statements were never made. Happy trails....Smile

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.06.07 23:50:00 - [341]
 

Originally by: Kredan Rasok
two simple rules should apply to candidates

(1) NOT currently a member of any alliance regardless of size.

(2) NO forum celebrities. (Dark Shikari, Winterblink etc)

Well that rules out almost anyone with any knowledge of the subject.

Nai Ling
Amarr
Middle Finger Technology
Posted - 2007.06.07 23:50:00 - [342]
 

Edited by: Nai Ling on 07/06/2007 23:50:36
Sweet...

I pick:
Sir Molle
Blacklight
DBP
Orange Species
Helen
INZI !!
and various key members of Red Alliance. Razz

And in light of current events, whereas Helen was ousted as a BoB infiltrator, that would mean that any subject would go in BoB's (and therefore CCP's) favor. Rolling EyesWink

Mud Pandemonium
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2007.06.08 00:06:00 - [343]
 

This is either pure stupidity or sheer genius.


Serendipity007
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.06.08 00:08:00 - [344]
 

I hate to bring up the Iraq thing again, but maybe something might be learned from that.

The players won't accept anything unless they have a hand in it. I'm sure everyone can agree that if CCP makes the voting rules, a majority of players will think its rigged.

What needs to happen is an EvE Player Constitutional Committee. Each of the major alliances, as well as the larger empire corps should each elect a delegate to this committee. For it to be relevant, any major group in EvE needs representation on this committee. Sure, it will be hundreds of players, but it will go a long way in addressing issues of bias.

This Constitutional Committee will draft an EvE Player Constitution, and it must be voted in with a 3/4 majority. CCP will obviously have some say in this process, but CCP must abide by what the players ultimately decide, or the whole damn thing is pointless anyways.

This EvE Player Constitution will outline with great detail, who is eligible to run, how long people will serve, and any other relevant details.

Once the Constitutional Committee ratifies a Constitution, it shall be posted for all players to see. After a period of time to be determined by the committee, a vote of the entire player base will be taken for or against the proposed constitution. If it passes, this Constitution will be the guiding document for player representatives; if it is rejected, the Committee is dissolved and the process starts from scratch.

This, or a similar method, is the only way for CCP's statement to have any meaning whatsoever. CCP has stated that they want to earn our trust back, and using a system such as this would go a long way to restoring that trust.

I applaud CCP for trying to be different in the MMO community, but I think I speak for most everyone here: double-cross your community, and... well you get the idea.

Third Down
Hard Rock Cafe
Posted - 2007.06.08 00:11:00 - [345]
 

Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Blacklight
Well if nothing else this thread gave me a laugh.

There's been no details released about how it's going to work, how people will be selected, what information they'll have access to or what their real remit will be.... and yet we've eleven pages already of people frothing at the mouth about it (not to mention getting onto Enron and powercuts in California) Rolling Eyes

I think I'll just wait and see what happens.



It took eleven pages to get a sensible post... and guess who made it?
Erm, actually, if we just "wait and see what happens" then CCP would never have been forced to this juncture, t20 would never have been outed, etc. etc.

Voltron
Caldari
Black Lance
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2007.06.08 00:18:00 - [346]
 

Bravo CCP.

When the first story from CCP broke about the BOB-T20 BPO incident the main thing I was concerned with was transparency. Basically, "why should I believe you when you're admitting to this and you're telling me that".

With the creation of an internal affairs dept there was still little to no perceived transparency in my eyes as the audit process was completely in house. Had there been a pre-exising internal audit department then the perception of their findings likely would have been quite different.

This is a huge move, and one that has regained my trust in the company and the game to be quite honest. I would have been happy seeing an external company brought in to do said audits and reports, however, involving the player base like this is a great step towards rebuilding the credibility and trust that CCP has lost in the past months.

My only hope now is that the elections are more about qualifications than a popularity contest. All I'm saying here is that I hope the 9 individuals elected actually take the responsibility seriously. However the onus to ensure that is on us the player base and not CCP.

Cheers,

Volt

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2007.06.08 00:29:00 - [347]
 

Featured in the New York Times, I bet Molle wish he'd come up with a less gay name for himself now.

Mistress Suffering
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2007.06.08 00:38:00 - [348]
 

Look at it as an opportunity for a relatively diverse group of people to go take a look at the CCP process and discuss it with the developers.

No, it may not "uncover rampant corruption", but then I can't honestly think many people figure there's some CCP-wide conspiracy to rig things for one group. If there are issues, they're much more likely to be in bad developer-public relations process and seperation of powers/duties.

CCP can both discuss this and consider changes to it under such a scenario. At worst you generate no action and its a net zero other than a few guys ogling the CCP facilities, but much more likely, you pick some sharp folks and CCP gets a chance to consider some ideas and safeguards.

Of course, public elections are a dubious process, so I assume we'll just send a few celebrities, but the thought was nice anyways.


jamesw
Omniscient Order
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2007.06.08 00:38:00 - [349]
 

I think this is a very interesting and groundbreaking move by CCP. It certainly has the potential to address the current perception issues, and like many previous posters in this thread have said - it is perception that matters. I only hope it is executed in such a way that the comittee is indeed able to convince the playerbase as a whole of their findings.

I look forward to finding out the details of exactly how this will be done.

Innovative as always, CCP! Thats why we <3 you!

Karasuma Akane
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2007.06.08 01:26:00 - [350]
 

Originally by: RossP Zoyka
Wow, that's a really cool article. Its in the NY Times itself? Or just online? I hope its in the paper because that's like insane EVE publicity.

It's on the front page (right column) of the Arts (B) section, and continues on page B7 inside.

I'm pleasantly shocked that Hilmar finally acknowledged CCP's need for transparency and oversight, after trying to keep their policies and procedures for dealing with in-house cheating and corruption secret for so long. (I'm still looking for a CCP Code Of Conduct outlining the rules and limits applied to employee personal accounts to be publicly posted though.) Hopefully this is a true change of heart and not a PR stunt.

Originally by: Karl Bohm
In the spirit of full disclosure, I'll admit I am posting in my alt's ID -- I've some 3 decades of experience regarding independent oversight. I'm a USA Federal Government enforcement lawyer. I spend my days at Agency HQ advising policymakers, top political management, and career operational chiefs on how to provide independent regulatory oversight of the US Dept of Defense. I've made a career of some 35 years on that proposition in order to achieve and ensure public health and safety -- if CCP does it right, they will regain and maintain the confidence of players. I know I've done pretty well towards that end in my own work.

I nominate your main to be one of the Tribunes. Cool

Maglorre
Posted - 2007.06.08 01:27:00 - [351]
 

Originally by: Serendipity007

Stuff about committees and constitutions and... stuff


Have you ever read "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" by Robert A. Heinline?

Fabrice Enchante
Gallente
Needles for Balloons
Posted - 2007.06.08 01:45:00 - [352]
 

Vote for me and I'll set you free.

Callthetruth
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.06.08 01:48:00 - [353]
 

perception is everything. Lets hope they get it right

Louis DelaBlanche
An Outlying Variable
Posted - 2007.06.08 01:52:00 - [354]
 

Edited by: Louis DelaBlanche on 08/06/2007 11:33:17
Long post cut short. As kewl as it sounds; an election for this sort of thing is ultimately flawed, useless, & little more then a gimmiky PR stunt. Only a professional auditing company can & should be used to investigate the nooks n crannies of CCPs systems, since only ppl knowing what theyre doing will have a clue what theyre looking at & what for.

Sagona Pasinia
Posted - 2007.06.08 01:56:00 - [355]
 

Originally by: Sakura Nihil
If we're going to do this democratically, one thing we need to keep in mind is that it will require regular, albeit infrequent, elections. This should not be a one-time "you're in forever" club, representatives will need to be held accountable for their oversight or lack thereof. If we don't realize this, we'll end up creating a new and familiar problem, the issue of credibility of an oversight group (this time Internal Affairs, next our representatives). Too much time spent with the organization you are supposed to be monitoring may increase your bias, so we need to keep them true with the possibility of them being replaced by us.

With regards to the theory that each of the 9 largest alliances should be represented, I strongly disagree. As important as BoB, the Goons, RA, and everyone else up on the numbers list thinks the are, they're still only a fraction of EVE, the 0.0 territorialist alliances - a significant demographic? Yes, but a dominating one? No - I have no doubt that they will use their power bloc to get endorsed candidates elected, and that's fine, as it is one vote per account/owner and this is the concept of popular representation. But, your interests are only a part of EVE's population, and the rest of us should have a say of who goes on that council as we're paying customers.

Did I just do a "No taxation without representation" thing? Lol, internet first Laughing?


That is essentially what I was going to say. Hear hear!

Oh and as a player who is not in any major alliance let me throw my hat in for the free trips to Iceland. Did I mention I'm a computer security and social engineering guru? Twisted Evil Well you can't blame a guy for trying! Cool

Kodiak31415
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.06.08 01:57:00 - [356]
 

Wow, sounds like CCP auctually gets it! Although I'm slightly puzzled as to why they decided to announce this via a newspaper first rather than direct to their customers. Nice to see eve getting some attention in the media.

P.S. How exactly does Molle(bob) plan on conquering empire after the pvtrs nerf? Suicide gank...a lot?

Tranca
Phoenix Propulsion Labs
Posted - 2007.06.08 01:59:00 - [357]
 

You know what i find VERY disparaging about this whole post and the attitudes of peolpe here... That about 85-90% of the people shooting down the whole thing and/or are talking $hit about "certain people...and names" are the ones losing the war in game.

I dont know about anyone else but i find that more than a little coincedental.....I really wish that if they don't like losing you either fight harder or go find an easier game to play and leave us be with all the GODDAMNED incessant whining and bickering.

You started a fight in game and talked day and night about how you were bad=a$$ and would kill BOB and the "pets". Well, from where I sit and just about everyone else now, YOU are the ones getting killed and now you and your your few allies left have started and tried a smear capign against CCP becasue you are losing.

If I were CCP, i would give all of you a 7 day notice that if you dont like it, you can leave or have your accounts flat-out deleted.
When push came to shove we saw- per the goon spammage who were the REAL men and who who the little brats who tried to throw a temper-tantrum to get their way and create a foul stench of what is a good game and a good company.



Gort
Minmatar
Federation of Freedom Fighters
En Garde
Posted - 2007.06.08 02:14:00 - [358]
 

You, sir, are an idiot.

Orgs
Amarr
Wargasam
Ventures
Posted - 2007.06.08 02:19:00 - [359]
 

Edited by: Orgs on 08/06/2007 03:28:01
Edited by: Orgs on 08/06/2007 02:18:13
Well Tranca you are a complete and utter douchebag. Things need to be addressed and you are worried because you are all guilty of "help" and of course you want nothing to change, but no game balance..no game. So just tuck your tail in and STFU and lets see how the "council" and CCP deal with this. Either the game fixes its problems or tons of people leave.

BCE 3AHRTO
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.06.08 02:25:00 - [360]
 

Edited by: BCE 3AHRTO on 08/06/2007 02:23:54
What would be hilarious, is if the 9 people are elected and several of them end up being alts of the same human player... does that person then get to take their significant other and/or friends for free as well?

p.s. Nate Hammertown better be on this panel, or else!


Pages: first : previous : ... 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 : last (16)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only