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Sergeant Spot
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
Posted - 2007.06.07 20:34:00 - [301]
 

Committee: A lifeform with 6 or more legs and no brain

Robert A. Heinlein

FireFoxx80
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.06.07 20:37:00 - [302]
 

A promising step forwards, but:

What's to stop CCP from simply hiding any suspicious activity from their player base?

Looking at the candidates for EON Awards, Eve is hardly a democracy of fully represented players. If anything, the candidates for this 'investigation' need to be completely neutral (no credit cards, addresses, account details; linking them to any potentially investigated players).

I hope this is a positive step, but forgive me for not holding my breath.

Blacklight
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.07 20:45:00 - [303]
 

Well if nothing else this thread gave me a laugh.

There's been no details released about how it's going to work, how people will be selected, what information they'll have access to or what their real remit will be.... and yet we've eleven pages already of people frothing at the mouth about it (not to mention getting onto Enron and powercuts in California) Rolling Eyes

I think I'll just wait and see what happens.

Lester Dean
Gallente
Death by Sexy
Posted - 2007.06.07 20:49:00 - [304]
 

Edited by: Lester Dean on 07/06/2007 20:48:16
Sounds useless and bob will prob spam and win and get even more insight into the game lol. But it really just sounds like a promotion for the newspaper the idea itself sounds rubbish in being acutally helpful or bringing back trust.

xStormwingx
Dark Star Cartel
Posted - 2007.06.07 20:51:00 - [305]
 

there are, obviously, many things that have not been cleared up, and no solid evidence to support the usefulness of such an operation. Don't worry, those things will come along soon enough.

I'm just sitting back and enjoying how Eve is getting advertised (as infinitely BETTER than WoW) in the most widely circulated newspaper in the United States. [;)]

Death Merchant
United Mining And Distribution
Posted - 2007.06.07 20:53:00 - [306]
 

Heh.. no matter what side your on. This is damn interesting. I hope a really fair to both sides of this 9 people are picked. I hope whoever is picked cares enough about their own intergrity not to taking any personal bias.

Good move CCP. Im really impressed by your intiative at nipping this problem in the bud. Blizzard would say $%&&* you and have a nice day :)

Plaetean
0utbreak
Posted - 2007.06.07 20:54:00 - [307]
 

Admirable and respectable move by CCP, I for one will be watching this very closely.

Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:04:00 - [308]
 

Originally by: Blacklight
Well if nothing else this thread gave me a laugh.

There's been no details released about how it's going to work, how people will be selected, what information they'll have access to or what their real remit will be.... and yet we've eleven pages already of people frothing at the mouth about it (not to mention getting onto Enron and powercuts in California) Rolling Eyes

I think I'll just wait and see what happens.

I was jumping into assumptions right after I read the article and I was (and I am still) pretty skeptical about it. But you are right with this one. Almost none information was released yet, so it's wrong to make baseless speculations.

I'm sure there will be Dev blog on the topic Soon™. We will see.

Trevedian
Amarr
Shaolin Monks
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:07:00 - [309]
 

Great idea CCP, this is a clever and shrewd PR move to save the reputation of the game we all lub.


Morning Maniac
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:10:00 - [310]
 

Good idea to increase the players' trust in CCP. I hope it will be executed well but we will just have to wait and see. Somehow I had to giggle when I visioned a full BoB delegation travelling to iceland to investigate Very Happy

Thumbs up to CCP for creative thinking and addressing issues.


Groox
noli turbare circulos meos
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:14:00 - [311]
 

Good move.

Fenris Wolfe
Blazing Saddles
Spaceballs The Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:16:00 - [312]
 

Eleven pages in... and probably 12 hours from now it will be twenty more (will the story even be in print yet?)

There are a few things of note that i have seen/read/thought as I managed to get through these posts...

Many posts reference:
  1. Let the (X number) largest alliances have a seat.

  2. Let anyone BUT the (X number) largest alliances have a seat

  3. Outside ‘professional’ oversight firm preference

  4. Kugo, Famous –10.0 sec personalities, and the occasional “me too, which is better: the girls or the beer?” (aside: heck, why not bring back m0o and have them do it? Cutthroat players = cutthroat oversight reps? /grin)

  5. Age, social/professional strata, education, experience, etc…

  6. Who votes? (Characters, accounts, billing addresses… note: option 3 may suxxoreally intensely for multi party house/apartments/dorm rooms/etc)


If we’re set to do this, then let’s do this right… and complete what the other 300+ posts are aiming towards. Measurable goals, defined actions, realistic results. How do we do this? Let’s call it a ‘job description’… eve-online via Monster-ish dot Com. (Hrmm.. can we add that one to the list of “Things to update for Corporation Overhaul?” kthnxTwisted Evil)

CCP Oversight Elective
Location: CCP HQ (if you don’t know where this is, please return to your game of Minesweeper/Solitare)
Job level: Entry to Advanced – 0 to 10+ years experience
Reports to: “player-constituents” per NY Times
[BIG NOTE: define player-constituents… Geographical? Political? IP Provider?]
Education: Undetermined – Pending actual role of Oversight Elective
Relocation Assistance: CCP flies you and houses you. Beer budget pending.
Date posted: 6/7/07
Shift: GMT location. Shift preference pending jet lag recovery vs CCP staffing policy.
Travel: Duh
Compensation: Gradual increase in ETOH percentage potential

Position Summary:
  1. Position is currently pending actual physical location and details.

  2. Oversight inquiry is/not limited in scope to _____ actions and ________ departments.

  3. Reporting policy for oversight action is as yet undetermined.

  4. Oversight Electives are to judge oversight and inquire about CCP actions individually/per consensus/to be determined.

  5. Constituents demographics/locations as yet have not been determined to be virtual, geographical, or virtual geographical (ie: EVE Constellations, Systems, Regions, etc.).

  6. Duration of term will be on both a voluntary basis AND duration based.

  7. CCP has yet to determine potential checks and balances to ensure Oversight Elective does not develop into “Whimsical God ModeYARRRR!!” or “Unproductive Wide Eyed Tourist ModeShocked

  8. All oversight issues are both acted upon and taken as official advisement from 1st party/3rd party Oversight committee.

  9. Oversight issues will not and shall not infringe upon EULA and pending Non Disclosure agreements between CCP and Volunteer/Contract/Corporate staff [penalties to be detailed some other time by someone else… soon™].


Part of this is wrote in parody, but read between the wiiiiiiiiiiiiiide lines:
Potentially excellent plan of action.
Now lets fill in some of the details.
Don’t fill the people before you fill the gaps.

/me is looking forward to this Smile

Sasakisan
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:17:00 - [313]
 

Below is the definition of "ombudsman" as applied to EVE:

-an individual who investigates and tries to resolve complaints and problems between customers and CCP.

This seems like a full time, and not very pleasant, job for a bunch of people, and GMs, IA, and the CMs are doing it now. I don't know if its realistic to expect volunteers to do this job.

With respect to the auditing, I favor giving the nine overseers a budget to hire a reputable professional auditor to conduct rigorous audits. I just don't think it is realistic for nine EVE players to carry out professional audits that will be perceived as being legitimate and impartial by the player base. I feel this way because of the time, expertise, and independence needed conduct a rigorous audit and because some of the players may have conflicts of interest.

I wonder if anything short of banning CCP employees from playing on the live server is going to really restore trust and if CCP is in a bit of denial over this.

Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:22:00 - [314]
 

Well, it's certainly cool in the "never been done" category. I'm not sure how practical it can be, no matter what approach they use. Sifting through logs or a db seems a bit unrealistic. Perhaps a player review of CCP's IA processes. We'll have to wait and see what they come up with.

I do agree that a third party with professional auditing skills should probably be brought in to act as lead. Some adhoc thing will just be silly. But like Winterblink said, it's way too early to even debate it.


Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:22:00 - [315]
 

this brings meta gaming to a new level YARRRR!!

Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:28:00 - [316]
 

Originally by: Blacklight
I think I'll just wait and see what happens.


Likewise, this thread is based entirely on assumptions.

Nothing about how this is going to work has been said by CCP.

I'd rather wait and see Cool


AegriSomnia
Caldari
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:31:00 - [317]
 

Edited by: AegriSomnia on 07/06/2007 21:37:43
Originally by: Herculite


Your understanding is wrong, and by living in California your understanding of how politics work will be wrong by default :)




You are either sarcasically humerous or a complete d*ckhead. I still havent figured that out as it is more difficult to discern from the written word what ones emotions are.


Originally by: Hamfast


My living in Texas (not in California) has nothing to do with it...


It does in that you arent going to get the same quality of news coverage in another state. Your news outlets, and especially the national news, will report what they think is important, which is never the whole truth.


Cythrawl
Caldari
Central Defiance
Insurgency
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:35:00 - [318]
 

That absolutely made my day.

Only thing missing is a comment box below. That NYTimes column needs a whole bunch of EVE players writing 'Epic Post' attached to it.

Cyth,
The not-so-friendly Diplomatic Director
DEFY

Voltaire Leriel
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:37:00 - [319]
 

Edited by: Voltaire Leriel on 07/06/2007 21:37:15
Originally by: FireFoxx80
What's to stop CCP from simply hiding any suspicious activity from their player base?


You have to elect peopel with the social engineering skills to pry things out of EVE devs but you also have to elect people you trust not to gather information to cheat themselves.

This is a hard combination to find. Some of the people mentioned are good spies and information gatherers, but can you trust them?

This is why I nominate TornSoul.

I am at this very moment trying to convince him to run.

Verite Rendition
Caldari
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
Posted - 2007.06.07 22:00:00 - [320]
 

Edited by: Verite Rendition on 07/06/2007 21:59:53
Originally by: Blacklight
Well if nothing else this thread gave me a laugh.

There's been no details released about how it's going to work, how people will be selected, what information they'll have access to or what their real remit will be.... and yet we've eleven pages already of people frothing at the mouth about it (not to mention getting onto Enron and powercuts in California) Rolling Eyes

I think I'll just wait and see what happens.

Something I have very quickly learned in this game is that when CCP announces something, expect them to screw it up in the most amazing way possible and you'll probably be right. It won't work well, the people selected will be a sham(See: E-ON awards), and the information they'll have access to won't include anything that matters. In short, these guys will be brought up to look at the offices, speak a few words with Kieron, and then post back "OMG CCP roxors!"

I'd like for them to make a real effort out of this, but let's be honest: status quo right now is pretty damn good for CCP, why would they want to mess it up?

PS TornSoul can be a member over my iced-over corpse. He's a liar and a cheat

Audri Fisher
Caldari
Burning Bush Enterprises
Posted - 2007.06.07 22:02:00 - [321]
 

This is a major step in the right direction for CCP.

Hamfast
Gallente
Posted - 2007.06.07 22:02:00 - [322]
 

Originally by: AegriSomnia

Originally by: Hamfast


My living in Texas (not in California) has nothing to do with it...


It does in that you arent going to get the same quality of news coverage in another state. Your news outlets, and especially the national news, will report what they think is important, which is never the whole truth.




Now who is being sarcastic... Quality news coverage?

Thanks to this wonderful thing called "The Internet" we all have access to information.

We also get to see what others are saying, and you can bet the people in the Grayout Davis Administration was happy to tell every local news outlet where the problems are... and they were not going to point the fingers at themselves, they would pick some other target, Enron just happened to be a target of opertunity... it's called "Spin".

By the way, this is why I agree with your view that the Outside Audit Firm would be better, odds are they would not be as easy to spin as the Players picked to do this audit. Tha Analogy is the Outside Audit Firm represents those that live outside of California, the players are those that live in California... (I had to tie this to the thread some how)

Indomitus Rex
FinFleet
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.06.07 22:03:00 - [323]
 

Is it just me, or would have firing T20 and then actually coming up with a Code of Ethics/Code of Conduct policy instead of covering everything up saved us all a lot of trouble?

Congrats to whichever bums actually go to Iceland. I'm sure they'll dump plenty of swag on you and get you plenty drunk. Hope your pride can take the hit tho, knowing that you'll be about as worthless as the U.N. inspectors were when S.H. was in power in Iraq.

"So, Oveur, can I take a look at the dev logs and such for the past few days? Maybe go over the petition system and see how your GMs have been responding to different groups of players?"

"Umm, well, you see, the problem is. . .hey!. . .look over here, we have some nice Icelandic. . .errrr. . .ice. Yeah! Come put your tongue on it and see if it sticks! Then we'll all take a group photo and go out to the pub!"

Demoser
Posted - 2007.06.07 22:20:00 - [324]
 

I really dont have much to say about any of the aligations or what should or should not have been done, but man, respect points for CCP making it into NYT, but man negative respect points for the NYT for covering MMO politics. At least this time they chose an MMO with class, unlike their multiple atricles on WoW this past year.

NereSky
Gallente
RETRIBUTIONS.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2007.06.07 22:26:00 - [325]
 

Well im stunned , its pleasing to see that CCP take the player base and their reputation seriously, ill eagerly wait for the details to be hammered out, and well done to CCP on this (if it happens)

Buyerr
Posted - 2007.06.07 22:29:00 - [326]
 

sigh.... lets praise eve for all the good and cast a shadow over all the bad
:S

they seem to be using more time hugging each others behind then fixing the game...

Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2007.06.07 22:40:00 - [327]
 

Seeing is believing. Let's see the in-game post first before getting too serious about it. A professional company managing professional PR at the moment. Let's see how that professionalism translates into timely implementation.

I'd be happy to Audit their activities.


DeckardIRL
The Randoms
Posted - 2007.06.07 22:43:00 - [328]
 

Why is the first we have heard of this a newspaper report and not an announcement by CCP to the community...

Deck

CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
Posted - 2007.06.07 22:43:00 - [329]
 

i just wonder WHO is these people that will wote for the players comming?..

can any one say bob+pets;)
they might as well have a dictator it is excatly the same in the end... this is soo weak, hiding behind the terms of democracy, looks more like an idea taken out off main kampf ;)

peace out

annoing
Amarr
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2007.06.07 22:51:00 - [330]
 

so now the election is rigged, populated with bob fanbois etc? jeeez you people are pathetic, really you are. Go and play something else, like runescape (average age 13, somewhat like the amount of your braincells) but stop coming here with your false accusations and bulls**t lies. I dont like bob and the beauty of the game is that i dont have to. They want to have all of 0.0 space, well im willing to fight them for it Wink

I think the major fault in goonswarms accusations can be found with this signature, now popular with many players who support this crap::

Statement on dev misconduct:

for the record, Darkstar1 has 3 pos in game only, both are and have always worked fine

3 pos? both are fine? .... what about the 3rd then? Bleedin muppets.


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