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Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.06.04 03:22:00 - [91]
 

You have said Rev 2 was in feature freeze. Does that mean that its too late to change the POS spam limitations from an arbitrary value to something like this?

James Duar
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.06.04 05:25:00 - [92]
 

Heat as it is currently is stupid - it's a chance based mechanic where chance isn't needed (and indeed, should largely be avoided in situations where repeatability of the chance are low enough that individual results matter).

What heat could've been was a way to give some more logistical and tactical depth to combat - instead we got this lame chance based mechanic which the penalties ensure is never worth it.

How Heat should have been implemented was as a new finite boost mechanic with a recharging time - think sort of like how drag racers add nitrous oxide to their cars. Thanks to the logarithmic functions governing much of EVE, precisely activated short term boosts - similar to nitrous oxide in cars - could have big effects without being overly lag dependent.

How I think Heat should work:

- Modules have a set "heat damage" rate expressed as HP/s.

Zero Phase: regular module activation. Nothing changes.

First Phase: Damaging overload. Heat damage is subtracted from module HP. Overload turns off when the next cycle would destroy the module.

Second Phase: Overcharge - overload bonus is doubled for one cycle, but then the module is destroyed.

CaptainSeafort
Gallente
No Trademark
Phoenix Virtue
Posted - 2007.06.04 07:25:00 - [93]
 

is it only me who downloaded 57minutes of silence from the official ccp download? =(

Umbriele
Gallente
Natural Inventions
Solyaris Chtonium
Posted - 2007.06.04 08:07:00 - [94]
 

Is there any chance to have a written version? Dont you think that not 100% of your customers can understand well spoken english?

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2007.06.04 09:49:00 - [95]
 

I can't get rid of the feeling that DEVs live in the epic 1v1 PvP dream of EVE which no longer exists. That's why heat looks like a good idea to them.

1. In small gang PvP, heat is usable only if you are the last man standing, and in that situation you'll get killed no matter what wonders heat can do for you. You are no use to your gang if you survive the battle with offlined modules (only as bait).

2. In gatecamp PvP, if you use heat to escape one camp, you'll get killed in the next, or hunted down in crippled ship (you overloaded your modules).

3. Fleet fights - no difference. The side using heat will already be the losing one. And lag prevents any finer tactics anyway.

4. Only able to repair modules at stations means not usable in most situations outside Empire (and there are stations without repair services in Empire).


CCP Wrangler

Posted - 2007.06.04 11:17:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Umbriele
Is there any chance to have a written version? Dont you think that not 100% of your customers can understand well spoken english?
We will add a transcript, it was half done yesterday but I'll try to hunt down our writer and get it uploaded as soon as I can.

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2007.06.04 11:49:00 - [97]
 

Edited by: Garia666 on 04/06/2007 11:48:20
i see 2 or mabe 3 positive posts the rest doesn`t like heat or not in its current way..

The learning cerve only gets higher by implementing suchs things.. Its nice for experiend players.. But when your new to the game there are so much options you have no idea where to begin..

Never did the tutorial so can`t realy judge on how good it is.. But still..

Drachma Golea
Caldari
hunter killers
Posted - 2007.06.04 13:37:00 - [98]
 

What's the status of the transcript?

Kito Fernandez
Posted - 2007.06.04 13:46:00 - [99]
 

Mmm, when is this patch released? Didn't find info about that...

Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
Posted - 2007.06.04 15:40:00 - [100]
 

Just in case you devs are trying to ignore it, let me throw this link in your face. There is a long thread about this boneheaded change to EANM. Most of the people are bitterly opposed to the change, including the very people it was meant to help (Amarr).


Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.04 16:15:00 - [101]
 

Heat is completely useless, a waste of time and resources, unmanageable in lag-filled evironment and a total money sink.

Perhaps you can gather that I dissaprove of Heat, and think all the code should be scrapped.

Fix the Drone Regions! Fix the Lag! Stop wasting money and time on Heat and Walking in Stations!

Borasao
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2007.06.04 16:34:00 - [102]
 

I agree... it sounds a lot like walking around on stations... a bunch of features/complexity that are looking for a reason to be implemented.

Valadeya uthanaras
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.06.04 17:11:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Valadeya uthanaras on 04/06/2007 17:16:02
Now at least they are trying to make a move toward fixing amarr

Imo EANM nerf not hurt too much .... cpu already so tight I had to fit true Sancha adaptive plating(4 mil each :P... feel their price gnna sky rocket)


But too CCP , I made the math myself, all the for-agaisnt, and exploit possibility....and i came with :


you want to fix amarr????

make the 10% less cap per level go to 20% less cap per level

Amarr fixed.....and if someone care to make the math like me(damage after resist for god sake) they should see....its balanced in EVERY way

And it will make Amarr the cap-king they should always have been

think about it...

lower ship cpu, highest vunerability to ewar, less mid-slot , EM dmg, more fitting(beam), and less dps(pulse)

Make that bonus worth it( change from 10%Arrowto 20%)

FIXED

btw....to have 100%(capless) you need to spend a lot of time(amarr bs level 5 anyone) and with level 4(80%) we finnaly have gun that worth fitting over autocannon-arty

Guess my idea will never be considered...but at least i said it.....

but imo.....sisi testing for a few days would be enought to prove i am right.....and it finnaly gonna some amarr ship worth flying(apocalyspe anyone)

edit: If you feel 20 % is too much, at least try with 15% per level

and when i say after resist, it agaisnt base armor resist or minimal sheild tank(50% em hardener, invulnaribility feild)

Richard Aiel
Caldari
Umbra Exitium
Order Of The Unforgiving
Posted - 2007.06.04 21:46:00 - [104]
 

If you overheat things they go boom right? Does this mean that if yer ship is dying anyways, that you can just overload everything so that noone gets any of the mods on yer ship? GREAT IDEA :p

Erim Solfara
Amarr
inFluX.
Posted - 2007.06.05 00:08:00 - [105]
 

You didn't listen to the devblog did you?

No, the modules have '0' hp, but aren't destroyed, just forcibly offlined, and having 0hp on a mod doesn't affect the chances of it being destroyed when the ship goes up.

Mirirar
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
Posted - 2007.06.05 03:10:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Xaen

That an the unalterable slowness with which you train skills are my only complaints with the game.

You do know about implants and Learning skills?

Kwerkus Ilf
Mutually Assured Distraction
Posted - 2007.06.05 05:21:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: James Duar
Heat as it is currently is stupid - it's a chance based mechanic where chance isn't needed (and indeed, should largely be avoided in situations where repeatability of the chance are low enough that individual results matter).

What heat could've been was a way to give some more logistical and tactical depth to combat - instead we got this lame chance based mechanic which the penalties ensure is never worth it.

How Heat should have been implemented was as a new finite boost mechanic with a recharging time - think sort of like how drag racers add nitrous oxide to their cars. Thanks to the logarithmic functions governing much of EVE, precisely activated short term boosts - similar to nitrous oxide in cars - could have big effects without being overly lag dependent.

How I think Heat should work:

- Modules have a set "heat damage" rate expressed as HP/s.

Zero Phase: regular module activation. Nothing changes.

First Phase: Damaging overload. Heat damage is subtracted from module HP. Overload turns off when the next cycle would destroy the module.

Second Phase: Overcharge - overload bonus is doubled for one cycle, but then the module is destroyed.


Total agreement here: I really like this way of dealing with heat. Make heat more about a way of finessing your mods rather than a chance-based mechanic. I don't want to win a fight because some random number generated in my favor! I'd rather win because I made good tactical decisions.

Bruce Torpedo
Posted - 2007.06.05 06:37:00 - [108]
 

Dear CCP,

Not sure if that heat will be nice feature or not, but as more important thing, CCP, please, stop feeding new features for awhile and make the game playable, get rid of lag please.

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2007.06.05 07:52:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Erim Solfara
You didn't listen to the devblog did you?

No, the modules have '0' hp, but aren't destroyed, just forcibly offlined, and having 0hp on a mod doesn't affect the chances of it being destroyed when the ship goes up.


there is some where said that.. modules that are damaged to over heating will always be destroyed...

So its possible..

Erim Solfara
Amarr
inFluX.
Posted - 2007.06.05 11:15:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Garia666
Originally by: Erim Solfara
You didn't listen to the devblog did you?

No, the modules have '0' hp, but aren't destroyed, just forcibly offlined, and having 0hp on a mod doesn't affect the chances of it being destroyed when the ship goes up.


there is some where said that.. modules that are damaged to over heating will always be destroyed...

So its possible..


Listen to it again...

The modules number of hp (the only thing affected by heat) has no effect on the chances of it being destroyed when the ship goes up, they explicitly stated that.

Yuandin
Posted - 2007.06.05 21:08:00 - [111]
 

any more chance based stuff is really annoying!

The game takes all the initiative from us already...

1) you don't fly the ship yourself (short of double clicking in space)

2) you can't aim your guns, they get aimed by chance

3) damage is decided by chance

4) who gets the easy isk by T2 bpo and who has to waste their precious hours grinding isk in belts or missions is decided by chance

5) if your ship takes any command at all is based on the chance of lag.

6) exploration is chance plus incredibly long waits for numberless scans to finish


I think that's more than enough chance based stuff already!


Give us some stuff that depends on player skill!

Heat could really be much better if an overloaded module just turned off for a cooldown period, like a previous poster suggested.

Now you'd actually have a feature that's skill based, without catastrophic lag effects, and something you can use often enough to make the development time worth while.

If stacking overload benefits would be too dramatic for frequent use, just tone them down.

Kaitan Orkborne
Posted - 2007.06.06 00:09:00 - [112]
 

Thanks for the time you guys took to get us up to speed on the new changes ahead. Looking forward to trying them out.

Zombie Nooey
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2007.06.06 06:59:00 - [113]
 

Hello people!

Here is your transcript:

>>Transcript<<

A few things:

I promised Wrangler "monday at the latest", so blame me for the slowness not him. I was 95% through this (only needed to convert to PDF and upload) when I accidentally fell asleep, so the plan went a bit out the window! I plan to have it done on time next month. Promise. Embarassed

Secondly, there's a little bit more paraphrasing and snipped bits this time around. Some things were unclear or inaudible, so I've neatened it up. It doesn't change the message, just the readability. Sometimes it's better to have a 90% accurate transcript that makes sense than a 100% accurate one that confuses the reader.

Was an interesting blog, they touched on quite a bit more than heat in some areas, so it may interest you even if heat doesn't get you...uhh...fired up!

As always, report any errors via ingame mail to Zombie Nooey, cheers!

CCP Wrangler

Posted - 2007.06.06 11:18:00 - [114]
 

Thanks, the transcript has been added on the Live Dev Blog page. Smile

Nemtar Nataal
Demonic Retribution
Posted - 2007.06.06 11:22:00 - [115]
 

Very cool about heat looks cool, having a little hard time making the numbers work out with overloading my ECM's but i might just have to redo the calcs...get back on that one...

Well nice fixes across the board.

A couple of things though....
Arrow Drake as the best pasive tanker in the game?
Well this simpely isnt true, if you passive tank a myrmidon for shields you can make it recharge more then 600shield HP/pr. sek which is 5 times the base value of a T2 XL booster!!!
So if you are nerfing the drakes passive tank ability then get to work on the myrmidon aswell.
And before some one goes on about saying that you cant use the myrm if your are passive tanking 600hp pr. sek well you can work around that...launch drones and use auto canons that should take car of your cap problem enjoy!
anyway the myrm could use a slight over haul in the tanking departement aswell...look at general pvp stats there are a reason why people have started to use the myrm insted of the domi...

ArrowOn regards to the changes to the stealth bombers well...caldari have alwayes have the upper hand with missiles and this change is in some way fair enough should level the playing field a bit between the bombers...though i think you should consider changing some of the bonuses a little cause with all the ships having the same trades you have once again made minmatar the coolest support combat ship like the Sabre is it atm...when droping bombs you want speed and agility as you can cloak while you are doing so by removing caldari from the seat of power you have only put in another race to repace them...and tbh with the tweeks minmatar are getting in Rev.2 they really dont need to be king of the hill in yet another departement...

Gragnor
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.06.06 13:14:00 - [116]
 

A quick scan of these entries and I didn't see much comment on the logistics ship changes. These bonuses and changes rock. Imagine a Guardian supporting a short range Abbadon set for gankage - ouch!!!! what about a Basilisk supporting a Maelstrom. The thought of a couple of Eos's and a Guardian running about the place would make baby jesus weep.

The improvements to logistics needs to be brought more out into the open as these ships will become massive combat multipliers.

Heat - meh - come ci come ca - we will see.

As for Amarr whining - try flying Minmitar - then you will REALLY have something to whinge about - The Phoon remains a crap pvp ship - the (all right I'll say it - justified) nano nerf destroyed it. The loss of uber alpha strike damage really hurts pests, despite the partial rebuffs. AS for Minmitar tanking - well rust doesn't resist much - unless you have an active tank for fleet fights (a seriously underwhelming tanking bonus) - that works; after lag perhaps, maybe, kinda sorta.....

"I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet," best describes how I feel.

Drone regions - YAY - But its taken FAR too long to get these serious bugs fixed. I live there and they really are poor at the moment.

Stealth bombers - whoa - big buff to cruise missile damage - and the bomb thing looks interesting but we will see....

What I am really interested in is finding out more about sovreignty changes.....please, please tell me I will not be spending fifteen hours guarding a gate - with NO FIGHTING while god knows how many POS's are put into reinforced. PLEASE I BEG OF YOU!

FireFoxx80
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.06.06 14:25:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Thanks, the transcript has been added on the Love Dev Blog page. Smile


Inflatable Love Devs?

Oddluck
Posted - 2007.06.06 17:57:00 - [118]
 

i have been on the Test server for a few day.....I have mixed feelings on the changes.



Heat- Ican see were I would love it. I think it can be fantastic.


Many people want more complex game play. Heat is a step in that direction. In the In endless PVP that its FFA 1 on test you learn to Manage your heat. When to spend your heat and when not to. Many times used correctly you can break a tank with it by over chargeing.



Many times Heat is a second chance. It lets you make up ground if you made a mistake.

All we need is tech 3 to be a choice. IE not more endurance AND better performance then Tech 2.

In that case , I think in 0.0 Warfare it is going to make a big diffrence for the defender. They will be able to fall back on there stations to repair. They can run cheaper gear for better results.

People that are far from their support stations will have to fit for endurance lest they end up many jumps from home with ships that no longer function at 100%. You end up chooseing Endurance over peformance.






Ammar-


I fly Ammar. More to the point , i now fly ammar recon ships since our Gal knock off ships are the most effective.

I dont see tracking power on frigs and a 10cpu diffrence on energized plates magically returning Amaar ships to PVE or PVP fleets.


Considering how minor this ammar change is , I have not lost hope that tech 3 focus crystals will allow us to shift our damage type in some way. And there is allways the NOS change.



Amelie MMCX
Posted - 2007.06.06 22:17:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: Amelie MMCX on 06/06/2007 22:16:34
EANM nerf is awfull.
You wanna kill my lovely ship Blasterthron?
I dont want to fly Domi, so ill buy several billions isk to spend them on faction membranes. Thank you, e- bay!

DeadDuck
Amarr
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.07 10:19:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Amelie MMCX
Edited by: Amelie MMCX on 06/06/2007 22:16:34
EANM nerf is awfull.
You wanna kill my lovely ship Blasterthron?
I dont want to fly Domi, so ill buy several billions isk to spend them on faction membranes. Thank you, e- bay!


Spend real money to buy items from a game... LaughingLaughing Better put your priorities straight ugh



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