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Paracyde
Posted - 2007.06.01 22:18:00 - [61]
 

fecking bs update if you ask me. Not only does this not really add much to the game, it makes it worse, while alot of time and money went into this.


Antoinette Valious
Posted - 2007.06.01 22:31:00 - [62]
 

I'm begining to wonder if ccp even reads the suggestion boards...... there's a massive amount of ideas thousands of times better and more useful then the crap they think of... just sitting there... stop adding worthless crap and make this game fun to play. now!

Frothgar
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2007.06.02 00:26:00 - [63]
 

So wait... you made the most CPU gimped race even more CPU intensive?

I love how your logic for the 50% cap bonus is "Becuase lasers do more damage" well when you factor in the fact that everyone and their mother omnitanking with EANMs hovering around 75-80% em resist, all you end up nerfing is the people who need CPU. Instead you should have just lowered EM resist across the board so the lasers which are so heavily penalized for doing the "Most" damage actually do that damage.

The way you did resists effectively negated any sense of damage Amarr do.

I like the medium beam fix, I haven't seen an omen in PvP in forever. Honestly tho, you screwed up bad on the EANM change. All it did was hurt the people it was designed to help, nobody else is effected.

Polysynchronicity
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.02 00:33:00 - [64]
 

Something I haven't seen mentioned here is that (if I heard correctly) ships are going to get a "size modifier" which will affect things like nosferatu, neutralizers, etc.

BS'd example numbers:

Punisher - 1.0 size modifier
Maller - 3.0 size modifier
Harbinger - 5.0 size modifier
Apocalypse - 8.0 size modifier

Small NOS - 1.0 size modifier
Medium NOS - 3.0 size modifier
Large NOS - 8.0 size modifier

So I'd assume that NOS amount would decrease based on the size modifier difference. NOS nerf, yay!

But yes; dear CCP, this patch (except for the alliance-level bosots) seems to be a huge disappointment. Seriously.

Rinah
STORM Squad
Posted - 2007.06.02 01:10:00 - [65]
 

Teh Heat feature sounds great if u ask me.
For those who dont like it or not going to use it coz its too complicated just dont train the skill :) Heat is not intended for fleets but for 1 on 1 or small gangs.

About the ammar changes, well everyone says they need improvements so the devs promissed that. May be the announced changes are not enough or somehow seem pointless. Im sure they still have time to add more noticeable changes on this matter before the official launch of the expansion. So u better go back to the suggestions board and give some good ideas. ("Heat is BS" this is not a comment lol)

The majority of players want more content. There are many things in a MMO game that can go wrong by adding more and more content to the game. Sometimes it takes more time than usual to balance and fix all of it.

Guys in most the MMOs they charge for the expansions, and they are far from perfect. After that they make 1000 patches just to fix and balance it.

Thanks the Devs for the Live Blog on Heat.

Megadon
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.06.02 01:15:00 - [66]
 

ArrowEverything that is coming with "HEAT" sounds like some really cool stuff putting more options into the hands of the pilot. The mods, the fact that it is not skill intensive, just everything sounds like a winner.

ArrowTriage mode sounds very cool and coming out of the gate it sounds somewhat balanced with the pilot having to make that tactical decision to be a support platform and stick around for 10 mins or not. Nice.

Arrow25% tracking boost to all pulse lasers to bring them in line with blasters and auto cannons. It's about time, glad you could make it to the party on this one. We've been waiting. Good Stuff.

ArrowLowering the fitting requirements for medium beams so theyre more easily fitted on mid-sized ships. Good Stuff, good idea.

ArrowLowering power grid requirements from 2MW to 1MW for energized membranes to make them easier to fit on smaller armor tanker ships. Good deal. Love that.

ArrowAddressing Amarr's abysmal damage by taking a shot at omni-tanks by raising the CPU fitting requirements of EANMs. Looks good on paper, but will stink in practice.
Why?

A- Because in order to get any decent damage out of amarr damage mods must be fitted which makes the use of eanms even more critical to them

B- Because of the fact that amarr already have cap issues and the passive bonuses that will be removed from stacking EANM's will hurt Amarr harder than Minny or Gallente.

C- Being an economist. I see this primariy as a penalty levied on those that cannot afford expensive faction mods. The people that can afford the expensive mods and implants that enable them to gain more cpu, will "buy" their way around this nerf. The people left holding the bag on this will be those that can only afford tech 2. If you really want to honestly address this. Lower EANM resistances ACROSS the board on every type of EANM.

D- This is an indirect boost to shield tankers.

E- Why are you so hesistant to directly address the issue of lasers doing poor damage by boosting damage output? If you try it and it's too much. Roll it back. The EANM issue is an entirely seperate issue in my mind. It does not address the poor damage lasers do to NPC's. Boost overall damage output or boost thermal damage alone. Thermal being the best all around damage type. Amarr deserve more.

Tornoon 2
Posted - 2007.06.02 08:17:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Tornoon 2 on 02/06/2007 08:15:58
first of all let me say that imo this is one of the best updates so far.... probably cause I fly logistics =) thx for the boosting. Also I actually went on the test server and had a look at all these things.

as for heat. sounds cool, it's gonna make for some good stories. knowing u managed to pull of something by the skin of your teath using heat will make the victory so much better.

now for constructive criticism:

HEAT: You said heat damage can only be fixed at a station. but not all people in 0.0 have a station easily accessable. pos modules that use minerals or smth should fix that. Though I really like the idea of a repair mod to fix heat damage. could make hit and run tactics interesting.

LOGISTICS: boosts will come in handy but I'm wondering about the boosts to their secondary ability. It is supposed to be their secondary ability. yet they get the same bonuses to their primary ability. but meh things can change, it will add variety to what 1 ship can do.

BOMBS: seem good though I think they could use a couple hundred more hp and their size creates problems. considering their size u will probably only bring your main damage type with you which means if u try to co-ordinate multiple stealth bomber drop at the same time u will have to all bring the same ship or bring a hauler with spares. or have them come in waves, and I'm sure people will quickly learn to warp after first wave. also on the test server I couldn't lock the bombs, I was under the impression we could shoot them.

Calleb
Posted - 2007.06.02 09:13:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Calleb on 02/06/2007 09:14:47
Energized plating have increased CPU cost????

Tell me it isn't so. This will surely be the final nail in the coffin for the whole Amarr race. It is the only redeeming feature about Amarr ships is that you can fit a good tank, and this is being taken away from them. There is no single amarr ship with enough CPU as it is, so a fitting nerf to CPU on these modules will surely make amarr ships sitting ducks.

Please devs - this must be reconsidered.

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2007.06.02 11:38:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Garia666 on 02/06/2007 11:40:19
Edited by: Garia666 on 02/06/2007 11:38:45
why do we actualy need heat?
what is it that makes heat eve such a better and nicer game to play..
i dont see it...
so lets say i am getting ganked.. ill just overheat all my modules with in the 10seconds it takes to over heat and dmg..

and then when i get killed all the modules will be destroyed..
nothing but passive **** in the can...

why does someone need to over heat his mwd or ab when ****s hits the fan?

i dont see heat at all.. just an extra feauture prob with extra bugs and exploits and no one asked for it... mabe some extra lagg.

i dont get it.. but thats whit allot of things recently here in eve

and what about the NOS specialized ships? with this patch.. its just to cry for...

Gabriel Magnar
Posted - 2007.06.02 12:04:00 - [70]
 

So when NOS changes make it through, it won't matter what size ship you are flying or your enemy is flying I guess.

All weapon sizes already do about the same amount of damage relative to the target's total HP with all the signature/speed changes, now they add NOS to that?

I dunno, seems to be going in the wrong direction. Rolling Eyes

Nymos
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.06.02 13:05:00 - [71]
 

the way heat is implemented right now it adds nothing desirable to combat even though it sounds cool. don't bother releasing that until it's final as in fully thought through and tested *and* verified it actually adds to the gaming experience. in terms of "add something to gaming experience" it fails exactly like rigs. most rigs are crap and those that are useful in fact just add another isk sink to already expensive setups.

should i tell you what would really enhance people's gaming experience the most? less lag. no lag. hit lag with the nerf bat. instead, we get something that wastes more cpu cycles on calculating random stuff.

you get so much feedback and page long analyses based on a lot of experience and testing for free on these forums. i dont remember anyone ever said nerfing EANMs would fix amarr, help armor tanking or is anything that needs balancing at all. active hardeners drain an ungodly amount of cap over time. i fly minmatar so my guns don't use cap, but i feel sorry for gallente and amarr...

Jordan Musgrat
Convergent
Posted - 2007.06.02 14:10:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Jordan Musgrat on 02/06/2007 14:12:53
Ya, for sure the EANM change is not good. And you can't keep gimping the EANM when you leave the Invuln field where it is, it's ridiculous as it is. Leave the EANM alone and think of another way to boost Amarr, like..... More CPU, more grid, give their ammo a slight boost, and maybe you could lower the standard T1 ship armor EM res to 50%..... That would do more than putting more CPU on the Amarr's tanking modules, and tbh I fly Gallente and I'm not going to have a problem with a bit more CPU..... and Amarr are.

EDIT: What CCP usually does is ignore this kind of thing and say "It will be fixed in the next expansion where we will be boosting Amarr." That's what you said for this one, and you have failed. Put in a hot fix for now (resists/damage) to make people somewhat happy, and when the time comes for NOS changes, give the Amarr some love. Someone also had a great idea with making Heat Sinks add resistance to heat.... Since Amarr is the cap race and clearly is getting killed by the cap, make it the heat race as well.

FarScape III
Journey On Squad
Posted - 2007.06.02 15:06:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: FarScape III on 02/06/2007 15:29:15
WC Scramblers’ but not WC Stabilizers’? Whyyyyyyyyyy? Come on man!

WC Scramblers’ but not WC Stabilizers’? Whyyyyyyyyyy? Come on man!

I never ever used a WC Stabilizer but I hardly ever got into PvP either, because of there being no point. You get what I’m saying?

Well, to say something positive.

You get about 5% boost when using mining crystals and the gear that uses them(T2 deep core mining laser II's)

And the crystals get bad after about 10 hrs or so of mining.

Anyways, it is worth it and make for a bit more fun.

It is more fun because I like messing with math and just tweaking stuff like allot of people like doing.

Heat yeah sure, just make it awsome.

But as far as combat for the most part, making it more tactical would be most important.

Being able to hide behind a structure and not get hit would be cool.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.02 17:38:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 02/06/2007 17:39:21


Heat - my plan is to ignore it.. looks like if you don't play with it mostly everything stays the same in most situations. I'm industry mostly.

Steal-Bombers - this made my ears perk. 8000 damage in one one bomb, 15 second delay? How long until we see demolition squads in empire taking out miners and giant secure containers while evading concord reprocussions? While I will admit that there are some systems that I wish the cans would disappear out of.. but how long until this is used more as an attack against simple miner assets (pirates will get bored killing macroers and start ganking anything that shoots at rocks).. I'm going to have to test this one before I give my approval.

Hunlight Faithus
Initium Malum
Posted - 2007.06.02 18:00:00 - [75]
 

Great dev blog just want to say thx as they said my name right thx guys :)

Nisse Owned
The Order of Chivalry
Posted - 2007.06.02 20:10:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Nisse Owned on 02/06/2007 20:10:17
Originally by: Barbara Nichole
Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 02/06/2007 17:39:21


Heat - my plan is to ignore it.. looks like if you don't play with it mostly everything stays the same in most situations. I'm industry mostly.

Steal-Bombers - this made my ears perk. 8000 damage in one one bomb, 15 second delay? How long until we see demolition squads in empire taking out miners and giant secure containers while evading concord reprocussions? While I will admit that there are some systems that I wish the cans would disappear out of.. but how long until this is used more as an attack against simple miner assets (pirates will get bored killing macroers and start ganking anything that shoots at rocks).. I'm going to have to test this one before I give my approval.



Ehum, bombs have 2 minute refire delay, and i doubt you'd be able to get away from concord with a stealth bomber, concidering it's hard and a exploit doing it in a inty even YARRRR!!

Actually, this is gonna be my new toy in macro miner hunting Twisted Evil

IamBen
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.06.02 20:14:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: IamBen on 02/06/2007 20:14:51
tech 3? When its gonna stop at tech 4/5/6? expand the game horizontally instead of vertically. More t1 ships etc. If you notice everyone is flying around in the new tier 2 bc's and having a blast :) This heat idea is interesting, but i think the priority right now should be on other things like balancing ew etc.

And seriously, increased cpu cost? Thats the total wrong way, if anything just lower the resist amounts, not increase the CPU count, that doesnt help amarr at all.

Acidictadpole
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2007.06.02 21:20:00 - [78]
 

With regards to repairing modules:

They stated for the moment that modules will only be repairable in station. What does this mean for supercaps? Motherships and titans to be precise, since they cannot dock?

Will they have to jett the modules to friends which would then take them into the station and get them repaired and then move them back out etc. Or will you in the future allow motherships to handle repairs themselves.

Cardice Makar
Dark Knights of Deneb
Posted - 2007.06.02 21:31:00 - [79]
 

Something alot of people here seem to be forgetting is that they're trying to fix Amarr. Now, I honestly don't know what those changes employ, but I have a feeling they have several things they intend on changing but are only going to implement the changes 1 by 1. I think this is the obvious solution [whether nerfing EANM's as a first step is proper, I don't know... debate that all you want] but taking the time to make sure every base is covered is a wise move on CCP's fault. Besides, I'm starting to un-regret training Amarr.

Second, I'd like to also point out that this EXPANSION is much less CONTENT heavy than previous ones. They're trying to fix and adjust previously existing gameplay mechanics more than anything else right now. The Heat issue it's self is just an actual content addition, and a fairly small one compared to how huge some of the other updates have been. I think the few relatively minor content additions compared to the large batch of fixes they intend on committing should seriously help relieve some of the moaning and complaining about direct *gameplay* issues.

Third, I like the changes, I think everything here is a step in the right direction. Take your time and address the bugs, make sure the new additions are balanced, and all will be well. All the griping and complaining [like always] will work it's self out as people get used to the new additions. CCP has made it clear that they intend on fixing other big ticket items [like Nos] they just haven't decided on the proper way of doing that. I think 5+ years of experience earns them the right to decide when to take their time on something.

Also, I don't want to sound negative, but being outwardly negative about the changes hurts as much as the changes themselves. We've had alot of complaints here and there and some of them are now getting addressed. Whether they're the most pressing changes to you as an individual depends on how you play. I'm not saying you shouldn't have an opinion... I just think that CCP WILL get around to fixing up the issues you hold dear, just perhaps not with this patch.

Volster
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.03 00:03:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Volster on 03/06/2007 00:02:54
wrong thread

Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2007.06.03 00:46:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Cardice Makar
Something alot of people here seem to be forgetting is that they're trying to fix Amarr. Now, I honestly don't know what those changes employ, but I have a feeling they have several things they intend on changing but are only going to implement the changes 1 by 1.


from the blog i got the impression that its getting implemented step by step because they still havent figured out what this oomph is supposed to be.


ShaK Supremacy
Posted - 2007.06.03 01:25:00 - [82]
 

HEAT = useless, totally waste of time and will add more work to the game(oh woot now we have to look for stations to fix our modules yeepeee. oh wait but i'm in deep 0.0 in enemy-player controlled space, naaaa thats a piece of cake, its only 99 jumps to the first station ad probably 20 dictors bubbles, dont worry comm i'll brb).. CCP just wants the game to 'appear' more attractive for OBVIOUS marketing reasons, putting that in EON is a proof of that.

Logistics, good! altho I think I read somewhere about one or two more important fixes............

Amarr, BOOHOOO give me the ability to reassign my amarr skillpoints to something else pls, thats before I quit the game so I can try to enjoy something for once.

negative summary: No blasterboats fix (cap), no amarr bonus fix (gimp it more pls), stupid heat addition, resources spent but not on fixing lag.. worse upgrade ever. TBH WoW is becoming more attractive to try out for a wierd reason.... I guess i'll join their 8 millions players count soon...

Reptile
Minmatar
The Raven Warriors
Posted - 2007.06.03 05:50:00 - [83]
 

Well I've been playing this game for nearly four years now, and all I see is CCP moving away from the player base and increasingly having a difficult time adding interesting and different aspects to the game.

Of all updates in the past 4 years, this is absolutely the most disappointing and worst update I have seen yet. No one listens to the player base anymore (which is kinda understandable with all the negativity lately, but there are still tons of good posts around, especially in the features section).

Also, no one at CCP used to care much for BS $$$ promotions, like the Eve Voice service. I think its much too late to try and push such a service, give it a rest and give us proper blogs or pod casts ffs.

Ghan Tylous
Posted - 2007.06.03 09:49:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Barbara Nichole
Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 02/06/2007 17:39:21


Heat - my plan is to ignore it.. looks like if you don't play with it mostly everything stays the same in most situations. I'm industry mostly.

Steal-Bombers - this made my ears perk. 8000 damage in one one bomb, 15 second delay? How long until we see demolition squads in empire taking out miners and giant secure containers while evading concord reprocussions? While I will admit that there are some systems that I wish the cans would disappear out of.. but how long until this is used more as an attack against simple miner assets (pirates will get bored killing macroers and start ganking anything that shoots at rocks).. I'm going to have to test this one before I give my approval.



It have been said that the use for Bombs would only be allowed in 0.0.

But come on, it's that all Amarr is getting? sure you have some more ideas to improve amarr?

LUH 3471
Posted - 2007.06.03 17:24:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: LUH 3471 on 03/06/2007 18:15:51
Originally by: IamBen
Edited by: IamBen on 02/06/2007 20:14:51
tech 3? When its gonna stop at tech 4/5/6? expand the game horizontally instead of vertically. More t1 ships etc. If you notice everyone is flying around in the new tier 2 bc's and having a blast :) This heat idea is interesting, but i think the priority right now should be on other things like balancing ew etc.

And seriously, increased cpu cost? Thats the total wrong way, if anything just lower the resist amounts, not increase the CPU count, that doesnt help amarr at all.

qft
ccp start spending more ressources on fixing/balancing the game instead constantly adding worthless things; one of the best examples being eve-voice.
the vertically/horizontally relationship of this game is approaching dangerous levels.

oh and to whoever had the idea of increasing eamns cpu usage: what have u been smoking lately?Laughing Very Happy
it rly escapes all logic. no offence intended.Smile

of course it is not evrything just bad: i very much like what you did to stealthbombers
, heat does sound like it could be fun and u are trying to fix the capitals.
so yeah keep on improving the quality of eve by fixing/balancing things and stop adding too much new content. i think the poor bugfixers and balancers have already enough on their hands. Smile









B Glorious
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.06.03 17:59:00 - [86]
 

While it is good to hear about upcoming changes to titans and motherships, the two changes mentioned in this blog will not be enough, and I think there's a profound body of evidence that making a doomsday put the titan into "pseudo-siege mode" isn't an ideal solution. I could explain further if necessary.

Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
Sarum Industries
Posted - 2007.06.03 20:41:00 - [87]
 

any update on the transcript?

Cyan Nuevo
Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships
Posted - 2007.06.03 22:54:00 - [88]
 

Well, just to add a bit of optimism in the midst of all the whining, I'll say that I really like most of the changes proposed here.

Heat: The damage only reparable at stations is a problem in my opinion, but not horrible. It's a pilot's choice to use heat, you just have to go in knowing the consequences. Overall I think heat will be pretty cool. For example, the other day I was trying to tank some guys for my 1-minute aggression timer before jumping through a gate. Could overloading my armor rep have saved me? Possibly; I'd like to try it next time.

Better tracking for pulse lasers: A great change. Nothing else I can say about this really.

EANM CPU change: Would be deadly for Amarr, but the active hardener CPU decrease is great for the balance there. Encouraging "variable-resistance" tanks instead of omnitanks is great in my opinion, though this is not enough to "fix" Amarr which is why I'm glad about...

Future revision of beam laser/Amarr ship fittings: please ASAP! Tachyon Beam Lasers use the most PG of all the longest-range guns, and meanwhile Amarr ships are very limited in fittings. Best news I've heard in a while. Smile

Changes to supercapitals and logistics: fantastic.

Raising BC shield recharge time: also fantastic. Unlike others, I don't want to kill the Drake, just hurt it a bit. Razz

You know, maybe there's just nothing I don't like about this patch. I guess my only complaint is that you're not getting more in. Laughing

Erim Solfara
Amarr
inFluX.
Posted - 2007.06.03 23:44:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Erim Solfara on 03/06/2007 23:46:56
I don't want Amarr to have 'some third element'.

I want to be good at the two we already HAVE ffs.

B Glorious
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.06.04 00:07:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Erim Solfara
Edited by: Erim Solfara on 03/06/2007 23:46:56
I don't want Amarr to have 'some third element'.

I want to be good at the two we already HAVE ffs.


Echoing this opinion...I'm not opposed to heat and I think it's pretty cool, but it won't change things like weak powergrid, pitiful CPU, and crushing capacitor issues. You're probably already aware but for people who don't intend to use heat much, Amarr ships should be good from the start.


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