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CCP Wrangler

Posted - 2007.05.31 21:03:00 - [1]
 

The Live Dev Blog on Heat is now over and we would like to thank the Developers as well as all players participating. A Live Dev Blog will be up in the Dev Blog section tomorrow with a downloadable recording of this Live Dev Blog. We will also add a transcript of this during the weekend, Monday latest.

Thanks again, and please post your feedback here, discuss the Live Dev Blog and tonights topic which was Heat. Smile

You can listen to the Live Dev Blog here, or just download it. A transcript will be added later.

Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2007.05.31 21:12:00 - [2]
 

- heat looks to be quiet nice
- some amarr balancing
- no oomph in rev2
- no nos change in rev2


Rhys Onasi
Posted - 2007.05.31 21:23:00 - [3]
 

I MISSED IT! NOOOOOOOO! now I have to wiat for TOMORROW??? ugh

But from what I heard about it, it doesn't seem to be a major always used thing.

For those of us that didn't hear it, can someone who did post a synopsis of what was discussed? Since I don't want to wait an entire day... I am bored... Need facts to play with in my head.

Azerrad InExile
Posted - 2007.05.31 21:27:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
- heat looks to be quiet nice
- some amarr balancing
- no oomph in rev2
- no nos change in rev2


weak

Lord Matrix
Flying Banana Squad
Posted - 2007.05.31 21:31:00 - [5]
 

Here you can download a MP3 recording of the latest live dev blog.

Blind Man
Caldari
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2007.05.31 21:50:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Blind Man on 31/05/2007 22:27:03
Edited by: Blind Man on 31/05/2007 21:57:34
Originally by: Lord Matrix
Here you can download a MP3 recording of the latest live dev blog.


tyvm..

thoughts so far:

really don't like the fact that its chance based and mods get damage no matter what.. hopefully later in the blog they say how they see it being used...

"we never want to add more complexity to combat"

speechless Shocked

amarr boost= Laughing.. the EANM is a nerf to amarr just as much as all the other races. nobody will use the medium beams anyways, and a tracking increase isnt what we wanted or needed.. Neutral

sableye
principle of motion
Posted - 2007.05.31 21:52:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Lord Matrix
Here you can download a MP3 recording of the latest live dev blog.


thx, was at work for this one could not be there can;nt wait to hear all the juicy info.

Jaerl
Caldari
Nice Boat Owners Club
Posted - 2007.05.31 21:56:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Lord Matrix
Here you can download a MP3 recording of the latest live dev blog.


tyvm, saves me activating EVE Voice... :S

Kwerkus Ilf
Mutually Assured Distraction
Posted - 2007.05.31 22:42:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Kwerkus Ilf on 31/05/2007 22:48:25

I listened to most of it and frankly it sounds like heat (as it is currently conceived) will have a fairly minimal impact on combat, at least until T3 mods arrive which are apparently intended to handle heat better than current mods.

Regardless, I'd really like to see CCP invest more effort in increasing the richness of combat by creating new, qualitatively different aspects of combat rather than focusing a lot of energy on small incremental quantitative differences (heat, for now at least, appears to be one of the latter).

Bombs, for instance, will have the potential to open up a lot more new tactical possibilities than will the addition of 15% more performance out of some mods for brief periods of time. I hope this is reflected in the amount of time CCP is investing in each of these features. On the other hand, there is still a lot about heat that we don't yet know. The ability to overload things like webber and disruptors might be kind of interesting and add more richness to combat.

In any case, please invest time and effort in making combat more rich from a tactical and experiential standpoint rather than by increasing the number of dials and gauges that we need to micromanage.

-K

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.05.31 23:06:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Blind Man
Edited by: Blind Man on 31/05/2007 22:27:03
Edited by: Blind Man on 31/05/2007 21:57:34
Originally by: Lord Matrix
Here you can download a MP3 recording of the latest live dev blog.


tyvm..

thoughts so far:

really don't like the fact that its chance based and mods get damage no matter what.. hopefully later in the blog they say how they see it being used...

"we never want to add more complexity to combat"

speechless Shocked

amarr boost= Laughing.. the EANM is a nerf to amarr just as much as all the other races. nobody will use the medium beams anyways, and a tracking increase isnt what we wanted or needed.. Neutral


Actualy I will use medium beams.

But is that all that the "boost" is?[25% done downloading]

Helison
Gallente
Times of Ancar
Posted - 2007.05.31 23:12:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Helison on 31/05/2007 23:16:10
Well, I didnīt expect much from Heat and this Devchat still disappointed me. Why is CCP designing such a complicated system like Heat, when it shall not be used much? In normal situations you donīt want to risk your modules and in tight situations their bonus will probably not be enough to help you to survive. We have currently many problems in Eve, but Heat wonīt fix any current problem, it may create several new ones.

For future Live DevBlogs: 1. Publish a written DevBlog about major chances before the DevBlog.
2. Allow more themes in one DevChat (Heat was not enough for the DevChat today)
3. Select more questions before start of the DevChat and have another person who selects the current questions from channel.

Harisdrop
Gallente
Vindicate and Deliverance
Posted - 2007.05.31 23:13:00 - [12]
 

OMG "I got to get that little piece of roid..." These guys are funny...

Kwerkus Ilf
Mutually Assured Distraction
Posted - 2007.05.31 23:21:00 - [13]
 

For future Live DevBlogs: 1. Publish a written DevBlog about major chances before the DevBlog.
2. Allow more themes in one DevChat (Heat was not enough for the DevChat today)
3. Select more questions before start of the DevChat and have another person who selects the current questions from channel.


Yeah, I agree that they really need to get the initial points out before answering questions. A 5 minute intro at the beginning of the broadcast would have clarified a lot and probably saved them the trouble of answering a number of repetitive questions.

-K

cold fuze
Posted - 2007.05.31 23:34:00 - [14]
 

All this talk about adding HEAT, is not a good idea. lag issue alone will make it a nightmare to almost everyone. who here wants to change there module every single fight or warp out and dock from a middle of a mission because your module overheated and was destroyed? its pure idiotic, and just add to more slowdown and frustration. How about instead of destroying the mods due to overheating, have it; unable to activate it for "x" amount of time, almost same as changing ammo. all this wasted resource trying to add another dumb idea., why don't you guys get to work on and apply the "Need for Speed".

Harah Parahtesteez
Posted - 2007.06.01 00:01:00 - [15]
 

How about CCP talking less about add-ons and just stabilize the game they have. Kinda hard to play the game with the "intense combat" they want to give us when the system crashes every week. I would be happy with more mission varieties and story lines within the game.Idea

Dodona
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.06.01 00:39:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Dodona on 01/06/2007 00:41:25
Originally by: cold fuze
All this talk about adding HEAT, is not a good idea. lag issue alone will make it a nightmare to almost everyone. who here wants to change there module every single fight or warp out and dock from a middle of a mission because your module overheated and was destroyed? its pure idiotic, and just add to more slowdown and frustration. How about instead of destroying the mods due to overheating, have it; unable to activate it for "x" amount of time, almost same as changing ammo. all this wasted resource trying to add another dumb idea., why don't you guys get to work on and apply the "Need for Speed".


I'm not sure you listened to the dev blog; they made it quite clear that overloading is not really meant for fleet situations. Right now, it's for emergencies only.

Originally by: Harah Parahtesteez
How about CCP talking less about add-ons and just stabilize the game they have. Kinda hard to play the game with the "intense combat" they want to give us when the system crashes every week. I would be happy with more mission varieties and story lines within the game.Idea


Stability was mentioned during this conversation, not in much depth, but it's doubtful that many people would want to sit through the specifics. Content was discussed in the last audio dev blog Smile

SaGuiNx
Posted - 2007.06.01 00:45:00 - [17]
 

Well yes... i agree, a On-Game tuturial Baed on the stories the the several Faction's or even Races would be quite nice, and some more story lines would be nice well at least ones that were consistent with each other... Not for the general idea, but to level 1 players it would be a nice idea... I think it would boost Mission running or even gameplay (in terms of Role-Playing) in Eve... And by achieving that i think That the interest would be also boosted, for first time players! (Just an idea) HeHe Laughing

Asmodean Reborn
Psykotic Meat
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2007.06.01 01:27:00 - [18]
 

I haven't listened to the dev blog yet (its downloading now) but from what I've gathered by testing on the test server, HEAT seems to be quite interesting.

Firstly, the damaged modules aren't destroyed, they're put offline until you can dock in station to repair them - so don't worry, you won't lose that full set of x-type hardners...

As said before - for fleet combat - it perhaps won't be a lot of use, but for one on one it could mean the difference between winning and losing. The extra ROF breaking your opponent's tank that little bit faster, or even your oppenent forgetting to turn off heat before he realises his repper has gone offline.... Confused

It's true that it's gonna be a bit complicated and probably more trouble than its worth... but if thats the case - don't overload your modules - play the game like you have been. It won't hurt - but it might give someone an edge over you...

A couple of bugs still need tweaking though, I don't like the fact that overloading one module in a rack damages all the modules. And on the note of turning it off - LAG will probably be a major issue. You try to turn it off - you get lag - too late you're tank is too overloaded and is now offline. Not good. Since you're now dead...

Tyrenical
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.06.01 01:28:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Tyrenical on 01/06/2007 01:27:42
Be glad they make the effort to give you these future change ideas, this is common business practice btw. Why are you all complaining that they didnt tell you every change they have thought of? And also, be patient. The developers do a great job of fixing every major unbalanced problem and they have a proven history or doing so; scorp tanking, over powered small missle ships, damage mod stacking, and the list goes on. Plus, they dont always give a big heads up about it, sometimes they do even more lately as more ppl have complained about more and more stuff. But, the fact is that if you complainers would take it wasy we might see the true nature of this game the way the designers intend it. I for one was lucky enough to play the game at release and while its come a very long way, i still cant forget the original game for the exciting feeling it gave me. Wink Vrrooooommmmm.

Asmodean Reborn
Psykotic Meat
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2007.06.01 01:49:00 - [20]
 

Just listened to it now... Making more modules that increase heat on your opponents ship or reducing heat on your own seems FAR too complicated. Just heat on its own is enough. Don't hurt my brain CCP Shocked

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.06.01 02:13:00 - [21]
 



1) So you guys arent going to do anything about the fundamental problems with the "one bonus" design of amarran ships?

2) Your EANM fixes dont fix anything. Since 2x eanm, 1xDC still takes up less CPU than 3x hardeners and produces for the most part, a better tank, the changes have done nothing but reduces the strength of omni tanks as players will move to ANPs[which many of us do already] instead of finding an advantage in the 3x hardener route.

3) Low tracking was/is a defining feature of pulse lasers, like low optimal is for autocannons. Increasing the tracking doesnt really fix any of the underlieing problems faced, except in making lasers more like autocannons and blasters and less definitive. As well, it reduces the area of advantage that autocannon users can pull out of laser users when attempting to out track them.

4) Thanks for the medium beam fix, current SISI values look right[but i havent messed around with fitting], except mabye for CPU. You already need a co-proc[for the most part] to fit a retribution or coercer with medium pulses and these use 3 more each[24 more for a coercer and 12 more on a retribution]. Though i havent messed around with making them work.

Ferocious FeAr
THE FINAL STAND
Everto Rex Regis
Posted - 2007.06.01 02:27:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 01/06/2007 02:35:50
The balance between risk and reward is skewed. I hope they plan on tweaking the feature, I like the tech 3 idea, is that really going to happen?

24h01
Posted - 2007.06.01 02:31:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: 24h01 on 01/06/2007 02:30:23
As a fan of the TRI system of I-War and the power management of old Star Wars games (Tie Fighter, etc.) I was quite excited by the concept of this feature at first. But its implementation seems far too restritive. All I hear is that I'll use it 1/100 of the time. You don't want to frighten first time players with additional game mechanics but IMO you will frustrate all the others. Heat has a lot of potential and people will want to use it so much more Crying or Very sad


Truthbringer
Posted - 2007.06.01 03:23:00 - [24]
 

Summary of the Live Dev Blarg

The good:
Logistics getting large range, repair and survivability bonuses.
Carriers get Triage mode (think logistics siege mode).
Pulse lasers get better tracking.
Stealth Bombers can deploy special area effect weapons.
All Stealth Bombers getting 3 missile slots.
Energized plating now use 1MW powergrid.
Drone regions getting roid love.
Exotic Dancers will not effect your ship's heat.

The bad:
Heat adds more micromanagement.
God help you if you lag while your modules are overcharged.
Energized plating have increased CPU cost, blatantly nerfing Amarr.
Lots of money and developer time wasted on a complicated gimmick rather than fixing the real problems.

The ugly:
Drake getting a very minor recharge hit, but still tanks like a battleship.
We have no intention of fixing Amarr.

murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2007.06.01 03:50:00 - [25]
 

Logistics ships and carrier changes: good stuff.
Titan changes: good stuff ( don't see these guys being used in combat much anymore lol)

Drake shield recharge change: isn't enough. It won't make a dent in the tank. I should know, I fly one.

Heat: it's a huge waste of time and effort on the devs part. You want to make it useable maybe 1% of the time on purpose? "Hey guys, let's put a ton of time and effort into a feature, but let's make it's use limited to less than 0.001% of the time actually spent playing the game" "Great idea! The players will LOVE that! More hollow content!" It's becoming really hard to enjoy these design changes.

Less complexity? The established player base WANTS more complexity and detail in combat. More options, more features, more choices.

EANM Nerf: worst idea ever. You're going to cripple a very small group of ships (blaster BS, laser BS) that are already on their last legs anyway (tank buff, damage nerf, cap problems out the ass).

Nerfing EANM won't fix omni tanks. Prices of faction EANM will just skyrocket, while players refuse to fly ships without their old setups. No more blaster ships. You'll see a huge increase in Dominix (who have plenty of extra CPU). Players will just change ships and fly something more efficient instead of trying to make an old ship work with less than a good setup.

With a 5% CPU implant and FACTION MODS, I only have 2 CPU left over to fit my Navy Mega, and with T2 mods I have 1 CPU left over to fit my regular Mega. All the ships I love to fly get ruined. It's probably the most stupid design change I've seen since I started playing.

This change doesn't affect most of my ships, just the ones I love to fly. I can still omni tank everything else, just not my most favorite ship: the Blasterthron. I won't change my setup, Amarr will still suck ass like they always do. I'll just have to use expensive faction mods, or simply not fly it at all. GG CCP.

This game is already too heavily biased towards super tanked nos setups. Now you've made it even more so. Overcharging NOS? Are you kidding?

Rigs have increased tanking to unheard of levels. No one uses weapon rigs (particularly damage rigs) because they're simply too inefficent- they don't provide a worthwhile bonus (stacking nerfed with all the rest of the damage mods) and have horrible limitations (10% grid use increase PER RIG?!). Hence, the rigs that are the most effective are tanking rigs.

Blaster/Laser ships suffer the most from all of this as they have the highest cap demands of any ship. Now they simply cap out and then die, due to their DPS being too low to break a tank before they run out of cap. Cap injectors can't keep up with the demand of 8x large T2 guns w/ T2 ammo and a single rep, much less two reps, or heaven forbid a few enemy nos.

Stealth bombers: some cool changes as far as balancing all the bomber types with respect to each other. I'm looking forward to trying out the Nemesis for a specialized mission runner killer.

Bombs: completely impractical and useless for their intended design. Such a huge waste that the idea has absolutely no merit and isn't even worth discussing.

SiJira
Posted - 2007.06.01 04:39:00 - [26]
 

im looking forward to an actual amarr boost

haulinnass
Gallente
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.06.01 05:03:00 - [27]
 

wow heat is so counter productive heres the deal

ok im going one on one with a guy and im loseing its a super tight fight i choose to use heat in hopes of killing my opponent or getting away.

ok heats active and im starting to with woot im gonna beat this guy i cant belive it.

my oponant uses his heat my moduals fail and i get pwned.

so why have heat it is just something added on that is going to cause lag.

and you have to have it ( time to learn more skills that takes me away from the skills i need to be competitive)

this is rediculious ccp is not listening to its paying players if i wasnt dumb and paid for a year in advance on both my accounts i would consider leaveing the game.


FIX YOUR HARDWARE AND MAKE THE GAME LAG LESS LARGE FLEET FIGHTS ARE ALLWAYS FAVORING THE FLEET THATS NOT LAGGING>

Ladyah Liandri
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.06.01 06:33:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: haulinnass
wow heat is so counter productive heres the deal

ok im going one on one with a guy and im loseing its a super tight fight i choose to use heat in hopes of killing my opponent or getting away.

ok heats active and im starting to with woot im gonna beat this guy i cant belive it.

my oponant uses his heat my moduals fail and i get pwned.

so why have heat it is just something added on that is going to cause lag.

and you have to have it ( time to learn more skills that takes me away from the skills i need to be competitive)

this is rediculious ccp is not listening to its paying players if i wasnt dumb and paid for a year in advance on both my accounts i would consider leaveing the game.


FIX YOUR HARDWARE AND MAKE THE GAME LAG LESS LARGE FLEET FIGHTS ARE ALLWAYS FAVORING THE FLEET THATS NOT LAGGING>

You're only partly right. According to what is implemented on Sisi right now HEAT is available out of the box - no further skills needed.

If it's a tight fight the least you will do is overloading your weaponry.

Well once maybe so that you know everything about the nice little side-effects like uncontrollable module damage. Uncontrollable you ask? Yeah because naturally if you lag the counters won't get lag. For example.

Or you try to overload say 6 hi-slot weapons. When you're finished with turret / launcher #6 quite likely number 1 and 2 already went offline ... or some other module say your repper or shield booster.

Another funny thing: + 15% ROF on missile launchers. So take an Arbalest Cruise Launcher with something around 9+ secs ROF with some skills. HEAT brings it to a whooping 8 something secs ROF.

That means 1/2 to 3/4 missiles more until the launcher's damaged. Ok well at least on Sisi that is.

It has been said before: Who on earth needs that? Aren't there enough known issues that needed some dev love?

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2007.06.01 06:34:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 01/06/2007 06:45:09
Have M-size beams recieved any changes? (I actually mean Heavy Beam, Focused Medium Beam and these ugly Quad lights).

Also, will the cap use of all beams ever get addressed? See my point here

Der Ewige
Federal Investigations Agency
Posted - 2007.06.01 07:09:00 - [30]
 

Well I realy like the 50% speed boost heat gives on mwd :)
It gives the right "OMG WTF we are d00med, all power the engines! Run to the hills" feeling.


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