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Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
Posted - 2007.05.31 17:14:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Lisento Slaven on 23/10/2008 02:22:08
PLEASE READ MOST OF THE THREAD BEFORE POSTING

Edited by: Lisento Slaven on 31/05/2007 18:57:28
Currently in EVE I see the following "occupations" (plese add to my list if you care to point out more that I am missing):

Explorer/Scout
Military (destroying things -> broad category)
Transport (hauling things)
Miner
Management
Construction
Archaeology (under-developed)
Hacking (under-developed)
Scrap salvager (under-developed)

What other occupations/classes could be possible in the world of EVE? I have suggested Space Whaler and I will re-iterate it here:

Space Whales are NPC's that spawn throughout EVE and come in a WIDE ARRAY of sizes (mass). The bigger the whale -> the more it is worth. In order to hunt space whales you must have a specialized ship with a specific module(s) for hunting the whales.

Before I go into modules and ship stats and crap like that let me lay out the purpose of Space Whales. These entities are rare, spread out all over EVE, and should be difficult to take down. But why? Originally when I put this idea up I suggested that we had to harvest space whales for components in certain boosters (illegal of course). Would have been interesting to harvest a space whale spleen to get my +5% to cap recharge but none the less, a purpose must be established. I was thinking that the booster idea would still be possible but you could also put up research requirements that need space whale components or maybe agent mission requirements.

Or maybe something new all together that requires space whale organs.

Also you should get a form of "Hunting Kill Mail" when you take down a space whale. There can be a in-game killboard for space whalers saying who's the best whaler, who got "the big one" and how many people have been murdered by space whales in the past week etc.

How do you catch a space whale? We need a specialized non-combat based ship (of course you could try to fit it up as a bait ship like some people do with mining barges but that is not the point). It should be able to equip a harpoon-like weapon with varying abilities depending on which type of harpoon you use. Maybe a X-type harpoon has a 70% chance of immobilizing the space whale but only yields about 25% - 40% usable material (it ravages the whale).

If you engage a space whale it will of course attack you. Maybe it rams you maybe it shoots space whale lasers at you I don't know. Either way it attacks you and it can hurt. In fact -> space whales pod kill. They eat your pod. In fact they should bite your ship. Yeah that's how they should damage you, by biting your ship. In order to prevent people from being out of range we can make space whaling ships slow and harpoons with short ranges.

How do you find a space whale? Specialized module that only fits on space whaling boats of course. If you allow this module to fit on other ships it may just lead to people scouting out space whales constantly, even though they are already rare, and then just screaming to people when they find one (or switching ships). This makes it so if you want to be a space whaler, you have to be a space whaler. No space whaling in a dominix. No space whaling in a dreadnaught. You space whale in the space whale ship. Kind of like fishing...you don't fish on a lake in a corvette. Corvette sinks and the fish eat you. Nuff said.

What does this occupation provide to EVE? I feel this would cater to the solo wandering nomads of EVE. All those people who want to live by their own rules and don't want to be a pirate (as I feel that is one of the only real sub-occupations in eve that can be nomad-like). This is like a mini-game in EVE that is highly specialized if you actually want to participate in it. The real objective that needs to be overcome with this occupation is what does it provide when you get the space whale? That is the part that needs to be refined!

Edit: First line put in...

Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
Posted - 2007.05.31 17:14:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Lisento Slaven on 31/05/2007 18:34:08
Additions:

Rarity - I want to expand on the rarity of Space Whales so people understand what I'm aiming at. This would be a number that has to be fiddled with depending on the purpose of whales (supply and demand effects of the amount of stuff you get from harvesting a whale). I was thinking maybe 200 - 300 whales a day spawn throughout EVE. If a whale that spawns day 1 isn't found/killed it does not carry over to day 2. It is gone forever.

This allows a controlled amount of whales. Of course if people think this is too low the number can be increased but preferably the fewer whales that exist the better. Also this number could be dependent on the number of systems that players can actually play in. I think there are over 4,000 systems in eve right? So you figure 100 - 200 systems a day have 1 whale in them, that's not so bad right? If there were 4,000 systems and 200 whales you have a 5% chance of being in one of the systems that has a whale in it. And considering there are over 15,000 people logged on each day...someone is going to find a whale.

Expanding on Mass of whales -> The minimum size a whale can be is 500 m3. The largest *theoretical* size should be at least 15,000 m3. The chances of finding a small whale are extremely high and the chances of finding a big whale are extremely low. Also note that the larger the whale -> the harder it is to take down. So now if you DO find a big whale, you will have a much harder time taking it down then the smaller ones which you are more likely to run into. I'm thinking 60% to 80% of all whales should be under 4,000 m3 in size. This gives the killboard more meaning as there will be a wider range of fish-stories to talk about (and screenshots of the one "that got away").

The lower security the system you are in should also raise the chances of the whale that is spawned, to be slightly bigger (less whaling occurs here).

Damaging whales, dying, and then coming back to finish off the whale: This should not be possible. This is a more difficult thing to tackle as I don't want X player to come attack Z whale, hurt it to like 20% and then die to the whale only to come back in a fresh ship to finish the whale off. That's silly and not what this is about. So I am not entirely in favor of an HP based system for whales (something more along the lines of a mini tactical game when fighting the whale maybe?). But if an HP system is required, whales must be able to heal when they are not being engaged.

Group whaling would be possible...but you can't cut a corpse up and give chunks to players so whoever gets the corpse is going to be responsible for paying off the other whalers =P

LEGALITY -> Space whaling is illegal in Gallente and Amarr space. "So the NPC navies just come pwn me as soon as I engage a whale? That's dumb." No they won't come pwn you. I'm saying if you go scan out a whale (WHALES DO NOT SPAWN IN BELTS, AT PLANETS, AT MOONS, STATIONS, OR GATES) and engage the whale, you will get a 15 - 30 minute timer where every player and every npc ship will engage you (players might be too scared to attack your leet whaling ship though). Moving space whale components through gallente or amarr space will be treated just as moving illegal drugs/items is. I do not want space whaling to be "better" in these areas but I feel it would be appropriate to give a slightly better chance to get bigger whales here as they are protected by NPC law. Not a big chance...maybe the same as 0.4 space chance.

(more editting and posts to come later on some time later...on...)

cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
White Noise.
Posted - 2007.05.31 17:24:00 - [3]
 

thats a great idea i 2nd this one Cool


Ensidious
Minmatar
Vendetta Underground
Posted - 2007.05.31 17:31:00 - [4]
 

I think it is a great idea, but damage should also be done by a kinetic form of tail slapping or hitting the ship with massive flipper-like appendages. Maybe it could have a sonic attack as well that does em or heat damage.

Erim Solfara
Amarr
inFluX.
Posted - 2007.05.31 18:57:00 - [5]
 

What about salvager as a profession? (under-developed)
(See link in my sig).

Suzii
Caldari
The Drekla Consortium
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.01 01:46:00 - [6]
 

why dont dread guristas drop anything but ammo 90% of the time

Reggie Stoneloader
Poofdinkles
Posted - 2007.06.01 05:02:00 - [7]
 

But if you whale too much, the Gallente Whale Rights Activists blow up your ship and pod you again and again, while shouting, "How does it feel to be murdered, murderer! Space Whales are people too!"

Azirapheal
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2007.06.01 06:49:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
But if you whale too much, the Gallente Whale Rights Activists blow up your ship and pod you again and again, while shouting, "How does it feel to be murdered, murderer! Space Whales are people too!"


and they in turn are eaten by moby **** in a space suit#

/signed OP

Trovax
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.01 15:53:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Trovax on 01/06/2007 15:53:06
Heres some more trades,

Trade Route Runner/Salesman
Inventor
Real Estate Rentals (Puttin up POS and renting it out)
Surveillance/Intel/couter-intel(or CovOps hunters)
Customs/Police
Bounty Hunters
Mission Runners

Combat Sub Categories :

Support (weapons)
Support (logistics)
Support (E.W. to include Warp Bubbles, NOS'in and Jammin')
Artillary (BC's)
Surgical Strike/Covert Ops
Front Line/Infantry (frigs, inties, and dessy's)
Long range Support (BS and above)



Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:28:00 - [10]
 

Yeah please don't go into combat sub-categories because there are too many of them.

Does anyone have anything to add/question in regards to the actual occupation of space whaling (mechanics etc.)? I seriously think space whaling would be one of the best things in the game.

NOTE - Someone asked me "Why do they have to be whales?" and in all honesty they don't really have to be whales but whales are something people are familiar with. It would give that seven-seas-fisherman-after-the-evil-super-fish that took my leg and family story.

Kaganis Warmonkey
Caldari
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2007.06.02 00:01:00 - [11]
 

Hmmm... I'm not sure I'm convinced, but how about a slight spin on it?

You harvest them for organic components, which are used in the construction of Jovian ships (which have some form of bio-tech aspect to their construction?).

OK, it's going to be a long time before we see Jovian ships, but it could tie in nicely there.

Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
Posted - 2007.06.02 00:13:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Kaganis Warmonkey
Hmmm... I'm not sure I'm convinced, but how about a slight spin on it?

You harvest them for organic components, which are used in the construction of Jovian ships (which have some form of bio-tech aspect to their construction?).

OK, it's going to be a long time before we see Jovian ships, but it could tie in nicely there.


Indeed. Originally as I stated previously I suggested that we harvest the organs of whales for the production of boosters, but alas...they went ahead and made it gas cloud stuff (or something like that...all I know is there aren't any whales).

The difficult part to this idea is the requirement factor. I still think it would be possible to adapt whale parts to the production of certain drugs, but there could be many other possibilities.

On another note I don't think we will ever be able to have or fly jovian ships as players.

At the very least we could just have whale parts required for NPC requests (such as agent offers, NPC buy orders, etc.). Space whales are the future. My next idea is space farmer which I have to flesh out.

Ramashek
Caldari
Posted - 2007.06.02 01:07:00 - [13]
 

i actually like the idea, i mean, obviously space whales would look nothing like whales >.< atleast id imagine...

what about pods? i mean, the whales id have though would travel in small groups, like whales maybe? or they could have a whole family or alpha male type deal like actual animals, and dependant on what force u bring to get the whales defines how they react, whether they attack, or some flee or whatever...

and how about a cloak? like the cov ops cloak (obviously you'd have to be careful to make sure that it can't be used in preference to recons/co ops) but a whaler would want to stalk his prey id imagine, and it would help to keep out of players eyes or the eyes of the law where it's illegal...

definitely a fun idea though, and eve needs some good little mini games >.<

45thtiger011
Gallente
Theseus Corp
Posted - 2007.06.02 03:56:00 - [14]
 

how about a whale scanner to see whale stats, etc...

or how about whales collecting mods from ships they 'eat' and each time they 'eat' a ship they increase in size...

Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
Posted - 2007.06.02 07:04:00 - [15]
 

Whales travelling in groups -> This is a possibility. Instead of it being a lone whale (I was thinking of the super-hunter occupation...stalking that single prey that you never know if it will be there). But if the space whales traveled in "schools" like fish do then you could adapt the idea in another way. I am focusing on the hunt + trophy rather than just tossing a net in and grabbing a bunch, but it is still feasible path to take the idea.

Whale scanner -> Yeah this is what I was thinking. But I was thinking more along the lines of an organic scan probe, to detect organic life. I would seriously not want any ship not designed to hunt whales to be capable of using the "whale scanner" (regardless of what form it takes).

Whaler Cloak -> No. I don't believe this should be necessary. Space whales are incapable of warp speeds so I do not believe they would be able to out run you even if they saw you. That is unless Space Whales in EVE are similar to the living ships in Farscape...in that case we're definitely going to need whaling cloaks. But I do not believe space whalers should be able to fit cloaks on their ship (and if they can, at least seriously gimp the ship by doing so through fitting issues).

Reggie Stoneloader
Poofdinkles
Posted - 2007.06.02 14:37:00 - [16]
 

To my knowledge, there isn't a single spacefaring alien race in EvE. Even the terrestrial sub-human animals and plants may well be the result of terraforming and genetic engineering done while the EvE Gate was open. Jovians are Earth-descended, and I've never heard it claimed that Talocans et al weren't.

This would be the first "alien" in EvE, and that's such a fiction-shaking change to the game world that I think it should be avoided on principle.

Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
Posted - 2007.06.02 15:36:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Lisento Slaven on 02/06/2007 15:36:02
Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
To my knowledge, there isn't a single spacefaring alien race in EvE. Even the terrestrial sub-human animals and plants may well be the result of terraforming and genetic engineering done while the EvE Gate was open. Jovians are Earth-descended, and I've never heard it claimed that Talocans et al weren't.

This would be the first "alien" in EvE, and that's such a fiction-shaking change to the game world that I think it should be avoided on principle.


This is also true from a RP perspective, but as you've stated many of the animals and plant life in EVE have never been claimed to be alien or of "home-brew" variety. I think it would be much safer to implement non-sentient alien lifeforms in EVE (such as animals, like the fedo which I don't think ever came from earth) than sentient life-forms.

I believe it would be safer and one of those things that would be "Oh yeah...there are these whales in space btw" type of things in a random chronicle.

To ruin a perfectly good quote from one of the Firefly episodes -> "Psychic? That sounds like something straight out of science fiction!" - "Honey, you live on a space ship." - "Yeah, so?"

Edit: Fedo's are an alien species albeit not a space-faring one. Direct quote from the first passage in the Fedo chronicle: "A Fedo is a fairly small (ca. 30-50 cm long, 20-40 cm high) animal originating in underground caves on the planet Palpis. The planet was settled by the Amarrians long ago, and the Fedo has spread with Amarr vessels throughout the galaxy cluster ever since."

Audri Fisher
Caldari
Burning Bush Enterprises
Posted - 2007.06.02 16:54:00 - [18]
 

I think this is so cool.

Truthbringer
Posted - 2007.06.02 20:36:00 - [19]
 

If we killed too many, would giant cylinder ships invade the galaxy to investigate? (Star Trek 4)

Saki Tind
Posted - 2007.06.05 17:02:00 - [20]
 

this is excellent!
We have to have this in eve!

<3 to space whales. will link in my siggy :P

- Seimor

Seimor Jeneet
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.05 17:04:00 - [21]
 

this is excellent!
We have to have this in eve!

<3 to space whales. will link in my siggy :P

- Seimor

R Ramjet
Immortal Council
Posted - 2007.06.06 02:25:00 - [22]
 

Awesome suggestion, well explained

/sign

waiting with 'baited' breath
I would like to see rare, named whales that very infequently occur and would take a decent gang of whalers to take down
ie. Nessie

45thtiger011
Gallente
Theseus Corp
Posted - 2007.06.06 05:47:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Truthbringer
If we killed too many, would giant cylinder ships invade the galaxy to investigate? (Star Trek 4)


space greenpeace FTW! lol

Shiner BockBeer
Go Go Gadget ForumPostingAlt
Posted - 2007.06.10 15:49:00 - [24]
 

Awesome.


Atnika
Caldari
C-T Underground
Posted - 2007.06.10 18:13:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Atnika on 10/06/2007 18:25:55
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
But if an HP system is required, whales must be able to heal when they are not being engaged.


How about a symbiotic critter? Barnacles attach to Terran whales and feed off their dead skin (effectively cleaning them), so small critters that heal the SW would be pretty cool.

I think either attach them to the whale (barnacles) and they would act like sub-systems (well it's on the drawing board, so why not?)
OR
Make them act like drones, and they fly around the whale healing it (Shoot an anti-bacterial liquid at it?), this method would be less coding for the devs too.


Also it gives the opportunity for newbies to join the hunt and actually be of use :D

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2007.06.10 19:24:00 - [26]
 

Hmm - I wonder what ambergris from space whales would be like?

Also, if we can hunt them, why not farm them, too? I see it as some sort of 'Whale farm' POS module or perhaps one of these outpost upgrades we've been promised for Rev. 2?

Khozhlov Zhadov
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.06.10 21:56:00 - [27]
 

/ Sighned

This idea rocks. Have you read raft by stephen baxter by the way?

That had space whales.

And so did polystom by adam roberts, they fed on giant fields of space plankton Very Happy

Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
Posted - 2007.06.14 16:22:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Khozhlov Zhadov
/ Sighned

This idea rocks. Have you read raft by stephen baxter by the way?

That had space whales.

And so did polystom by adam roberts, they fed on giant fields of space plankton Very Happy


No I have not read that but I may look it up.

On the issue of farming whales -> This is something you could consider in the long run btu it detracts from the whole "game" idea of going out and hunting the whales (while risking yourself). I was aiming for the hunt, but if you really want to farm wildlife/plantation then a seperate idea is definitely required. I certainly wouldn't mind being a farmer in EVE.

On the issue of barnacles -> If you wanted to explain the HP recovery on RP terms then your idea is perfectly capable of doing so. Although I think it would be cool if they were drones flying around the whale I don't think we really need to implement visuals for it...not that visuals aren't cool =P

Phillip McCrevice
Posted - 2007.06.16 11:08:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
why not farm them, too? I see it as some sort of 'Whale farm' POS module or perhaps one of these outpost upgrades we've been promised for Rev. 2?


i think that to farm them you should have to pull them back (transport them) back to a special pos that caters for that sort of thing,

Seimor Jeneet
Amarr
Posted - 2007.06.19 08:19:00 - [30]
 

We really need this implemented :P


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