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Akiman
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.05.31 21:47:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: voogru
Edited by: voogru on 31/05/2007 20:39:18
Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: Trishan

High sec ganking places zero risk on part of the attackers.



They lose sec status and have a possibilty of having their (your) loot swiped or destroyed.

Also this is 30 people working together, not 1 person, 30 people making a coordinated strikd, how much sec status do they lost collectively, and how much loot did they split amongst themselves?

Piracy happens in highsec because that's where the phat lewt is.

What good is it to gank shuttles and t1 fitted battleships in 0.0?

Piracy is about making MONEY through PVP.

They nerfed lowsec, now the pirates are in highsec.

It doesn't matter what you do, you'll never stop it. Piracy has a right to exist, pirates have a right to operate and feed on you from time to time, just as you have a right to make money from your own Eve profession.

You get free money from grinding missions day in day out, or munching on roids.

What gives you the right to complain that 1 time in a million, your oh-so-expensive ship got ganked?

Good. I hope you get ganked again.

Better yet I hope you get over your fear of losing pixels and learn to laugh at loss, because people are meant to lose ships.

Why do they even have security status? Why are the systems labeled 1.0 .9 .8 .7 .6?

Because Concord response times vary, to make highsec ganking easier in .5 than in .1

Eve is a PVP game.


maybe when you realise that:

1. these are all sweatshop farmers
2. the results of these ganks go to one guy (their boss).
3. the resulting isk is then sold for $$$.
4. you have no way to get back at them, npc corp, and if you sucide them back oh no they lost a ibis.

I have nothing against a group of 30 pirates suiciding a ship. The problem is this is probably 3-4 guys in a sweatshop running several accounts each and then using the profits for $$$.

Do you really want an EVE-China, where the only way to play is to buy isk from the sweatshops?

I think not.

Quote:
you know if there was REAL counters to this like being able to jam people who target you without being concorded


What about jamming 30 ships?

The counter to this is more GM's going after and banning ISK sellers.


agreed

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2007.05.31 21:50:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
The problem with this is the economics of it all which are whacked (although if it is farmers killing farmers I'm cool with that...this is more the principle of the matter).

Look at the math...

Caracal + Platinum Insurance + T1 Mods - Insurance Payout = 1.5 million ISK (give or take a bit)

50 ships * 1.5 million = 75 million

Raven (no fittings) = 90 million

See an imbalance there? Not even counting the Raven's fittings it is worth more than all the suiciding ships combined. Add in even just T2 mods and that price jumps considerably. Add in faction/officer stuff and it goes off the charts. Making the ship worth around 500 million is not too hard.

Kill the insurance payout to the suicide gankers and I think that about balances it. It *should* cost more to suicide than whatever it is you are suiciding (not counting mods of course).


Not gonna get dragged into this debate again, but just wanted to point out that if you include insurance in your calculations, the raven part should be:

Raven (no fittings) = 90 mil, platinum insurance = 30 mil, payout = 105 mil (?) == total cost = 90 + 30 - 105 = 15 mil.

Smile

/Ki

Nito Musashi
Posted - 2007.05.31 22:50:00 - [93]
 

Love people supporting ganking faction ships and mods in high sec, lets do it more make the whole faction market crash, god knows you cannot get a faction bpc out of any deadspace complex without camping 7 hours or more with a whole fleet fitted for pvp because the farmers know to the second what time the faction ship droppers are going to respawn and if they dont get the kill are ready to snap it up and jet off so they can sell them for 100s of millions.

Never mind it is impossible to insure any faction ship for what a bpc costs plus building it, insurance is joke on faction ships.

Bottom line faction ships are nice toys but not really viable for much of anything risky, unless your are insanely wealthy or buy tons of isk, so if now they are going to get blown up in high sec, with cheers from the peanut gallery, whats the point of having them at all? to sit in a station docked 24/7 i suppose.

CCP should make is so insurance does not payout if committing a crime in high sec, and heck i would take it one further fine the offenders for the cost of the ship they destroyed 100% of all damages charged to their accounts.

Or make faction stuff so plentiful and common that it would not be worth anything to blow them up unless it was revenge, oh how people would cry then.




Nanobotter Mk2
Posted - 2007.06.01 05:00:00 - [94]
 

Quote:
See an imbalance there? Not even counting the Raven's fittings it is worth more than all the suiciding ships combined. Add in even just T2 mods and that price jumps considerably. Add in faction/officer stuff and it goes off the charts. Making the ship worth around 500 million is not too hard.

Kill the insurance payout to the suicide gankers and I think that about balances it. It *should* cost more to suicide than whatever it is you are suiciding (not counting mods of course).



that is one of my main beefs with it, the other is there is no real defense, because you can undock see them and redock, tell all your mates to come help but yet there is nothing you can do to shoo them off. your only option is to log off and not play. It is total BS.

No isurance payouts, and to be honest if you cannot be war dec'd in a npc corp then you sohuldnt be able to attack ANYONE if you are in a npc corp.

Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
Posted - 2007.06.01 06:21:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Rooker on 01/06/2007 06:21:14
***disclaimer***

I say the following as someone who regularly suicide ganks and who actually makes ISk out of it

***disclaimer***

There should be no insurance payout for someone who loses a ship to a Concordable offense. I won't use 'real life' examples to justify this, even though ALL POSSIBLE examples would support my argument. The few times someone legitimately screws up and gets 'corded, let that be petitionable for reimbursement.

edit: typos

maximus babbarus
Freelance Economics Astrological resources
F.E.A.R Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.01 07:05:00 - [96]
 

what worries me is the generic name of the op and withthe tri guy coming in and sugesting a mains name that is equaly generic i woulodnt be suprised if this was a isk farmer whining to try and remove this type of ganking so a rival farmer will be forced ot leave him alone.

yes this worries me but i would justify this to my self as you having done some thing to have called for this to happen.

to a guy earlyer that siad t2 is as agood as faction , yes and no decreased cpu /pwg aswell as increased atrabutes can alow you to fit more high end moduals to your ship

Methem
interimo
Posted - 2007.06.01 07:10:00 - [97]
 

Did this with 4x caracal on a hulk last week.. Fraps coming soon

Chelone
Outside The Asylum
Posted - 2007.06.01 07:26:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Nito Musashi
Love people supporting ganking faction ships and mods in high sec, lets do it more make the whole faction market crash


That's a pretty bad economic analysis there. Removing supply would make prices go UP. Also, no one forces you to use faction items on your faction ship. Fit it with T2. Griefers don't get to keep your ship, only half the mods. So, flying a faction ship in highsec doesn't seem much riskier than flying a normal one. I'd be more worried about lagging out when scrambled...

However, I completely agree that any CONCORD crime causing ship destruction should net a 0% insurance payout. Another painfully obvious fact flying under CCP's radar...

Barthezz
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.06.01 08:29:00 - [99]
 

Concord are like 'the police' of high-sec right?

Why dont they act like it? If I cause an accident while speeding irl not only is my insurance void, I also get a hefty fine.

People suiciding ships in empire should get no insurance payout and get a fine.

The fine that they get should be in the range of 2* the base-price of a ship. Except for T2 ships, where 10* the base-price should be used (as we all know the base price of t2 ships are whacked compared to sales price). There's a catch though, the fine should only be given if the party their attacking actually dies (e.g. being on a killmail in highsec causes you to get a fine).

And alarms should go off in ccp hq if characters get deleted with negative isk.

This will still allow people to gank in highsec, but the profit margin will be a lot less and since its one of the few ways to get negative isk, disposable alts can be detected better. And while we're at it, disallow hostile actions in high-sec by trial accounts.

Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2007.06.01 08:42:00 - [100]
 

oh ffs Rolling Eyes
Why do these sorts of threads keep getting attention?

Everyone should be accessible in the Eve world, hisec or not. The amount of effort it took for this one should actually make you people getting your panties in a twist feel safer. But no, here comes the chicken little brigade.

How friggen likely is it that you'll be attacked by 30 ships? Not very. Not unless you **** off a ton of people or brag to everyone you see about your billions of officer mods or whatever.

Quit campaigning for a PvP flag. It's weaksauce. And definately not Eve.

Fanjita
Posted - 2007.06.01 09:01:00 - [101]
 

your links are broken i cant click on them :(

SiJira
Posted - 2007.06.01 09:20:00 - [102]
 

the issue here is not what happened but that the lag got so bad that even if he had every opportunity and was able to avoid it - the lag prevented him from doing a damn thing

its like getting frozen in time - ****d - and waking up after its all over even though you were prepared and able to defend yourself

iknowWho
Gallente
Temporal Logistics
Posted - 2007.06.01 09:29:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: iknowWho on 01/06/2007 09:34:15
n/m

Ethaet
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.06.01 09:53:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: SiJira
the issue here is not what happened but that the lag got so bad that even if he had every opportunity and was able to avoid it - the lag prevented him from doing a damn thing

its like getting frozen in time - ****d - and waking up after its all over even though you were prepared and able to defend yourself

The lag is definitely the issue here.
However, I think that attacking someone in empire should completely void insurance so you get NO PAYOUT AT ALL if you get concorded.

Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
Posted - 2007.06.01 10:45:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Roy Batty68
oh ffs Rolling Eyes
Why do these sorts of threads keep getting attention?

Everyone should be accessible in the Eve world, hisec or not. The amount of effort it took for this one should actually make you people getting your panties in a twist feel safer. But no, here comes the chicken little brigade.

How friggen likely is it that you'll be attacked by 30 ships? Not very. Not unless you **** off a ton of people or brag to everyone you see about your billions of officer mods or whatever.

Quit campaigning for a PvP flag. It's weaksauce. And definately not Eve.



No one (who isn't a troll and who possesses a half ounce of sense) wants hisec to be 100% secure all the time. However, the risk needs ratcheted up for suicide gankers so that it is more in line with the reward. The easiest way to do this is void insurance if you are killed by CONCORD.

How does it make the tiniest bit of sense that CONCORD punishes you for your bad behavior, and then turns around and pays out for the ship that they blew up?

Feral Khan
Absolut Solutions
Posted - 2007.06.01 11:18:00 - [106]
 

While I agree that high-sec should not be 100% safe and that ganking in high-sec should always be a possibility, I find CONCORD's response to the situation deplorable. First they reimburse the offender for the ship they destroyed. Then they usually allow a second crime to occur while a good number of their ships are in the immediate vicinity. Why isn't the area cordoned off and the involved wreckages impounded? Why are "law abiding" pilots allowed to be victimized a second time in the very presence of DED enforcement ships?

Say you were planetside enjoying a nice stroll down the lane when you come across a scene where security forces had responded to an assault / murder. I doubt you would be able to freely rumage through the area and take what you wanted of the victims. Why should space be any diffent?

heheheh
Phoenix Club
Posted - 2007.06.01 11:37:00 - [107]
 

Edited by: heheheh on 01/06/2007 11:36:59
to the OP.
Im betting you asked for this by boasting of your fittings in corp chat.
You also asked for it by not redocking.
I reckon the no insurance payout for suicide bombing is a good idea though.

Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2007.06.01 11:37:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Amarria Black
Originally by: Roy Batty68
oh ffs Rolling Eyes
Why do these sorts of threads keep getting attention?

Everyone should be accessible in the Eve world, hisec or not. The amount of effort it took for this one should actually make you people getting your panties in a twist feel safer. But no, here comes the chicken little brigade.

How friggen likely is it that you'll be attacked by 30 ships? Not very. Not unless you **** off a ton of people or brag to everyone you see about your billions of officer mods or whatever.

Quit campaigning for a PvP flag. It's weaksauce. And definately not Eve.



No one (who isn't a troll and who possesses a half ounce of sense) wants hisec to be 100% secure all the time. However, the risk needs ratcheted up for suicide gankers so that it is more in line with the reward. The easiest way to do this is void insurance if you are killed by CONCORD.

How does it make the tiniest bit of sense that CONCORD punishes you for your bad behavior, and then turns around and pays out for the ship that they blew up?


Sure, kill insurance payout for CONCORD kills. I've got no beef with that. But do you really think that would have made an ounce of difference in this particular case?

This one looks like alot of people were determined to give one guy a good smack. Insurance or no.


My only problem with the insurance solution isn't that in itself. It's knowing posters here, as soon as that is implemented and the next guy comes along complaining about a suicide gank, the proposed solutions then will be worse.

Sure, take away insurance. Makes sense. But then everyone shut up. But they won't.

"I have to actually be aware of what's going on around me?" Crying or Very sad
"I have to actually turn on my tank?" Crying or Very sad
"I have to actually be at my computer?" Crying or Very sad

At some point people need to be told to STFU and play. It's like kids seeing how much they can get away with. People will keep chipping away at their "problems" until there's no challenge left in the game.

At that point we might as well campaign for macros to be made legal in hisec. /shrug Why the hell not? If I don't have to think to play the game, pushing the buttons is just a formality.
Laughing


Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2007.06.01 11:45:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Roy Batty68

Sure, kill insurance payout for CONCORD kills. I've got no beef with that. But do you really think that would have made an ounce of difference in this particular case?

This one looks like alot of people were determined to give one guy a good smack. Insurance or no.


My only problem with the insurance solution isn't that in itself. It's knowing posters here, as soon as that is implemented and the next guy comes along complaining about a suicide gank, the proposed solutions then will be worse.

Sure, take away insurance. Makes sense. But then everyone shut up. But they won't.

"I have to actually be aware of what's going on around me?" Crying or Very sad
"I have to actually turn on my tank?" Crying or Very sad
"I have to actually be at my computer?" Crying or Very sad

At some point people need to be told to STFU and play. It's like kids seeing how much they can get away with. People will keep chipping away at their "problems" until there's no challenge left in the game.

At that point we might as well campaign for macros to be made legal in hisec. /shrug Why the hell not? If I don't have to think to play the game, pushing the buttons is just a formality.
Laughing




QFT!

/Ki

Nox Solaris
Posted - 2007.06.01 13:18:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Chaiden
Originally by: ZenThunder
I do agree however that it seems an abuse of the system to be receiving insurance for a concorded ship - at least in this case.


Concording and self-destructing.. I know a certain pirate that self destructed 2 Moros and a Fenrir in the last 2 weeks to prevent the losses from showing up on the killboards, but still gets the insurance payouts.



That's when you manufacture a killmail. Yes, you can't list the items destroyed, but you still get the mail on your killboards, with the person doing the self-destructing up there as having delivered the 'final blow' via a Self Destruct Sequencer I.

Gareth Angel
Gallente
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2007.06.01 14:04:00 - [111]
 

Reading through this thread I feel the urge to point out the fact that most of the people responding here are some of the biggest turdz I have ever read messages from.

This one got to me most:

Originally by: Cipher7
There is a real disconnect between how regular players see the game and how carebears see it.

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Eve is a PVP game.

If you can't accept that you can get ganked anywhere at any time in any situation then get thee lost to any of the plenthora of PVE games out there where nobody loses anything.


What a laugh. Are you for real? I assume you think yourself to be a 'regular player, right? Gimme a break! Read through this post again, and you'll find some good examples on how a good response is written, even by people who don't agree with the OP.

About that OP: I agree that it is pretty sad to be ganked by 30+. I don't think that should be impossible though, but the best point in this is that I'd be ****ed off too if I lost a ship like this. Not the fact that there are 30+ ships firing at me, but (and the OP states that pretty clear) you have no way of defending yourself when all those ships and then even Concord cause so much lag that it has become impossible to activate mods or even clearly see what is happening.

I also tend to think that the people using this tactic KNOW about the lag their 'fight'is going to cause, making it a pretty lame tactic (and maybe even an exploit?).

So dumb comments like 'Eve is a PvP game' and 'Don't fly what you can't afford to lose' are not reallt at place here.

I wouldn't mind losing a ship to 30 folks, but I would want at least some chance of taking a few with me.

I think that was the OP's issue too.

Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
Posted - 2007.06.01 14:14:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: heheheh
Edited by: heheheh on 01/06/2007 11:36:59
to the OP.
Im betting you asked for this by boasting of your fittings in corp chat.
You also asked for it by not redocking.
I reckon the no insurance payout for suicide bombing is a good idea though.


Read the OP... it's not his ship...

Danglar
Posted - 2007.06.01 15:50:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Danglar on 01/06/2007 15:55:03
It seems a legit tactic to me other than the clear lag-manipulation but that's not in thier direct control and equally applies to them as well as prey.


"If they are alts and recycled it is an exploit - If they play on and fix thier sec it is not."
1. The odd thing to me is not knowing much about sec loss. Tomato eggplant in the pics was concord targeted/scrammed and presumably after this there's a 99.99% chance of being concorded... so if you were to embark down this path what's the fastest way to repair your sec status? Tag turnins? Ratting? And how of a hit are you really taking?

"Initiate aggression 0.5% loss (about 0.1 sec loss)
Ship destruction 2% loss (about 0.2 sec loss)
Pod that station-lubber 12.5% loss (about 1.25 sec loss OUCH!)"

Security status Guide

"Also this is 30 people working together, not 1 person, 30 people making a coordinated strikd, how much sec status do they lost collectively, and how much loot did they split amongst themselves?"

2. Of the group that shows up, atm they are camped at Aramachi 2-4, it seems only 3-6 are live which makes more sense esp if ea. controls 5 comps dual logged in or less. What are the mechanics behind coordinating operations in Eve like this? In daoc there was a Team Wizzy, and a handful of copycats later, that could pvp w/ a grp of 8 simultaneously controlled w/ <.1sec delay on coordinated "bombing". But that was possible w/ the /assist command in daoc that allowed keystroke coordinating. Is there something similar in eve outside of those macro programs/scripting you see macrominers using- if that's even possible in this context? I'm not familiar w/ those but I'd think if you can set it to do roids why not afk enemies.

I say afk b/c it seems after checking em out for a half hour they wait a handful of mins after someone is motionless to cargo/ship scan you. If you are still there after 10-15mins they'll have 3/4 of em scan you to annoy/scare you, along w/ sporadic ingang fighting... usually Doris car and olkujs attacking Tomato eggplant, followed by usual bumping etc... it must get boring waiting for the CNR etc to undock and go afk.

The listed gang parties in ss1:
malcolme li
Second east
Tomato eggplant
mrak lee
dfgrdfg
asokl
Arethusa pink
asokl
Thomas Joan
werwera


The listed gang parties in ss2 w/ aggro:
Mark helen
dfgrdfg
Tomato eggplant
Arethusa pink
upright captain
Arethusa spinach
Second east
One sword
jittot
malcolme li
sdfefhh



The listed gang parties in ss3 w/ aggro:
jeemui
Second east
upright captain
werwera (wreck)
Tomato eggplant (wreck)
One sword


Today hanging out at the camp:
Caracal fleet:
Doris car - did a lock 4.1sec
jiubao kis
Tomato eggplant - did a lock 4.4sec
olkujs
werwera - did a lock - 0.8
upright captain
asokl 4.7sec
mojsjm ksjs
jeemui
dfgrdfg
misnja
sdfefhh - 2.3sec
DASHD DSA


additional:
Shelly Carl - did a lock in kessie
White commander - raven - 1.0sec
artheh


after hit:
storm seeker - nighthawk - -0.7sec
comes in


I just want to understand the mechanics of how such a coordinated strike can be done perfectly. It makes sense that hisec has vulnerability to it everywhere to varying degrees. It doesn't make much sense that Concord destroys your ship and then pays out the insurance. But really in the risk v reward calc all this is doing is cutting the suicide ganker's cost per ship down to 65%ish ... caracel's cost at 3.3mil per you're adding what 15ships x 3.3mil x .65 = 32mil. So even if implemented this means 32mil less for the operator. Not insignificant but it won't stop targeting vs. wrecks w/ mod values > 100mil. I'd think then that t2 fitted anything is safe it's just faction fitted ships and lg. indies+ that'd be worthwile and this new rule wouldn't impact this much.

Your real solution is massively increase the sec status penalties.

--noob to pirating--

Ginlol
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:01:00 - [114]
 


people are quick to say "dont fly it if you cant lose it". i would like to see their reaction to a situation where they are the target of a 20+ ship slam fest.

pvp is one thing. suicide zerging is something else.

Ginlol
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:04:00 - [115]
 


people are quick to say "dont fly it if you cant lose it". i would like to see their reaction to a situation where they are the target of a 20+ ship slam fest.

pvp is one thing. suicide zerging is something else.

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:37:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 01/06/2007 16:36:26
Originally by: Ki An
Not gonna get dragged into this debate again, but just wanted to point out that if you include insurance in your calculations, the raven part should be:

Raven (no fittings) = 90 mil, platinum insurance = 30 mil, payout = 105 mil (?) == total cost = 90 + 30 - 105 = 15 mil.

Smile

/Ki



More like --
Raven (no fittings) = 90 mil, platinum insurance = 30 mil, payout = 90 mil == total cost = 90 + 30 - 90 = 30 mil

Remember Plat Insurance always costs 1/3 of the payout.

But you assume the person getting ganked has platinum insurance. We know the gankers do (unless they are terminally stupid). And of course the cost in no way accounts for uninsured mods and cargo which quite often can be more valuable than the ship. Yes the gankers lose mods too but they will see to it they have largely inexpansive stuff on to minimize that.

Maybe you think EVERYONE should buy platinum insurance no matter what but it is not a foregone conclusion. Especially with T2 ships insurance is largely laughable (although with lower prices lately not as bad as it once was).

Nito Musashi
Posted - 2007.06.02 01:13:00 - [117]
 

Errr no if there were suicide squads of disposable alts targeting faction ships with faction mods so they could make tons of cash, who the hell would fly their 400 million a pop for a bpc faction ship with 300 million more in faction mods on it in high sec?

If this was happening in limited degree yes the price might tick up a fraction as the demand might increase if someone if going to run out replace all their faction stuff the got blown up....and that is a stretch.

If it were happening in any large degree people would dock their faction ships leave all but the most essential faction mods in their hangers and other people would more likely when they hear "suicide squads ganking ships with faction mods in high sec" not spend 10s to 100s of millions of isk on faction mods they dare not fit for fear that one of these suiciders might scan them one day.

Trishan
Green Men Incorporated
Posted - 2007.06.02 03:12:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Danglar
In daoc there was a Team Wizzy, and a handful of copycats later, that could pvp w/ a grp of 8 simultaneously controlled w/ <.1sec delay on coordinated "bombing". But that was possible w/ the /assist command in daoc that allowed keystroke coordinating. Is there something similar in eve outside of those macro programs/scripting you see macrominers using- if that's even possible in this context? I'm not familiar w/ those but I'd think if you can set it to do roids why not afk enemies.


It's trivial to build something for this purpose.

You can probably even run those 5 instances of eve on a single computer since FPS and related stuff won't matter much after the attack commands have been issued, and you only need one visible window.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.06.02 03:35:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 02/06/2007 03:34:19
Originally by: Ginlol

people are quick to say "dont fly it if you cant lose it". i would like to see their reaction to a situation where they are the target of a 20+ ship slam fest.

pvp is one thing. suicide zerging is something else.


Well, eve might not be your thing... here is a game more suited to you ugh
Linkage

Ryo Jang
Central Defiance
Insurgency
Posted - 2007.06.02 03:43:00 - [120]
 

oh god, not the pvp game argument again.

eve is NOT a pvp only game... that WHY there is high sec. what it IS is a multifaceted game, where if you so choose, you can lead a peaceful life of mining. CCP deliberately designed the game to be as appealing to a wide range of people as possible - that includes carebears who want to make a fortune very slowly. some people enjoy that.

tbh, i think high sec is fine as it is, except that crimes committed need a higher sec status penalty as you get into higher sec space - to the point that one unprovoked kill in 1.0 would drop you by 5 points - effectively banning a 0 rated player immediately from high sec.


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