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Pseudothei
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.05.29 23:51:00 - [5071]
 

Edited by: Pseudothei on 30/05/2007 01:20:14
Edited by: Pseudothei on 30/05/2007 00:04:24
Originally by: Krumpit
The false dichotomy of "If you don't like it, quit", sadly, seems almost endorsed by that Kieron quote.


It's not surprising, since thus far CCP haven't really shown they even understand the real issue.

And yet, there are previous recorded cases where GM's have been ordered to cease friendly contacts with certain in-game alliances - and rightfully so IMO - on account of mere appearance, so I don't really get why BoB and Diana deserve to be the only ones allowed to remain with that privilege.
[AnimalFarm]Some are more equal?[/AnimalFarm]

vvvv :booya: :page170snypa: vvvv

Mister Spanky
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.05.29 23:54:00 - [5072]
 

Damn you Pseudothei that p170 Sniper was mine

Malashek Vatrii
Universal Apathy and Boredom
Posted - 2007.05.29 23:56:00 - [5073]
 

Edited by: Malashek Vatrii on 29/05/2007 23:55:40
p170 \o/

Over 5k replies and 330k views... impressive

Darkstar BP
Caldari
eXceed Inc.
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.05.29 23:56:00 - [5074]
 

Originally by: fire 59

Unless i missed one, 2 of 4 accusation thingies have been cleared up so far and were proven groundless.


Nah, nothing was proven, not even an attempt was made. A lot was asserted though.
There is a difference.

Daveydweeb
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.05.29 23:59:00 - [5075]
 

Originally by: Standard Deviation

1. Dev joining corp at war, without notice. a bit strange, no? I would love to see the original petition he was responding too, also an explantion of the deleted ones


The issue here is not that Sharkbait might have been screwing with DS1, but that, when asked for a simple clarification, CCP responded with a stonewall when none was necessary. When acting as if you're in the wrong is the norm, there is something fundamentally wrong with your approach to public relations.

Richard Johannson
Posted - 2007.05.30 00:04:00 - [5076]
 

Edited by: Richard Johannson on 30/05/2007 00:52:12
Edited by: Richard Johannson on 30/05/2007 00:13:17
Edited by: Richard Johannson on 30/05/2007 00:07:40
Edited by: Richard Johannson on 30/05/2007 00:06:12
Qoute

Throughout our history, there have been a handful of cases where our employees or members of our various volunteer and partner programs have taken advantage of the proprietary powers they are granted through access and knowledge. These cases have been investigated, prosecuted and judgment rendered. Usually the punishment has been quite simple: termination of employment.

As of the beginning of January this year, we have been building up a special institution within our company similar to the Internal Affairs divisions of law enforcement agencies. For this team, we have assembled the most ardent hardliners in our ranks. They all fully understand the enormity of what they have accepted to do and we are certain that they will be able to shoulder this responsibility.

It is no trivial thing when corruption takes place. In our case it's no different than the injustice of public servants in the real world feathering their own nests rather than ensuring the prosperity of the many. Living in a country of a comparable population as the world of EVE (Iceland only has 300,000 inhabitants), I sure know how it can feel when governance is not balanced and feeling powerless to stop it. I am certain that members of the EVE community are now going through similar emotions.

I am sure that we all appreciate that it is no coincidence that Dante reserved the lowest level of Hell for "the worst of those who betrayed their benefactors." In our case, I would regard the EVE community as our benefactors. We are not the "gods" or "the masters" of EVE Online or the EVE community. We serve the community. You have entrusted us to safeguard your hard work.

End Quote


http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=423


And do you know what is the best of it? This is a statement from a CCP public relation guy from Feb 2007 LOL, Well done!


Mik Nostrebor
Minmatar
Ex Coelis
Posted - 2007.05.30 00:06:00 - [5077]
 

Edited by: Mik Nostrebor on 30/05/2007 00:28:10
Look at it this way. A business man (CCP) is accused of murder and corruption. He is hauled in front of a judge and the judge asks him to launch an investigation into his own guilt. He goes away and promises to come back with an unbiased finding. He gets some employees in his own company to look into the issue and compile a report. He reviews the report and makes sure it has the right spin. He comes back to the judge and says, "I can find no evidence whatsoever of my guilt against all accusations". The judge says "Fine. You are not guilty; off you go"

Issue finished. Justice is satisfied.

I think that CCP needs to take some actions to indicate that they are taking all such issues seriously. What bothers me is that the whole ISD volunteer program is being called into question. It is unprofessional and it appears that it is not what you know but who you know that counts. I think that there is no co-incidence that ISD's senior staff is compromised by BoB members. ***How odd is it that a Senior Goon is (was) only a lowly ISD reporter whereas there is clear evidence of BoB tampering in the affairs of ISD.**** EDIT: oops - The chap is not a goon. My mistake.

CCP needs to clean up ISD. It is not good for it to be seen as being run in a very bad and corrupt manner. To me it seems that ISD is at risk of being disbanded altogether which would be a bad thing for us players. After all, if this hoohar keeps up CCP will be looking for a scape goat and ISD is right up there in the line of fire.

They need to make sure that NO BoB members (dev or otherwise) have direct personal access to senior ISD members and that ISD members remain anonymous to the devs. Only the CCP support managers have any business dealing with ISD at this level. It also means that none of the dev staff can actually be in ISD either except in publicly disclosed roles (eg Kieron).

If I were in IA I would be making recommendations to that effect in an effort to remove any avenues of conflict of interest and possible corruption.

So we should be lobbying CCP in the forums to reform ISD. EG:
1. Remove all devs from ISD except for support staff.
2. Remove dev access to ISD member identities
3. Initiate proper disciplinary procedures for ISD members and not arbitrary dismissal.
4. CCP Support staff who have access to ISD member information should not be allowed to have normal playing accounts on the live server.
5. RP GM staff should not ever have player accounts
6. Devs with player accounts cannot become involved in RP Events.
7. Devs with player accounts cannot be in senior roles in any Alliance or corp within an Alliance. They should be reminded that their player accounts are there mainly for gameplay testing purposes and not for personal fulfilment.
8. Devs with player accounts should be flagged clearly to to all other dev accounts, including their real identities. (Not flagged to normal players however)
9. All Dev accounts that are currently in BoB should be deleted, regardless of their involvment in the current debarcle. This should be done as a demonstration of the commitment of CCP to its players.
10. All player members in BoB who are also in the ISD program should have their ISD accounts suspended until they leave BoB or choose to leave the ISD program.
11. All ISD accounts should be recreated with different names to ensure anonymity .


Those are my thoughts anyway.

Eric Black
Caldari
Tripocalyptic Enterprises
Posted - 2007.05.30 00:06:00 - [5078]
 

Edited by: Eric Black on 30/05/2007 00:43:35
Actually, I regularly see product contests, lotteries and such where family of the employees of the company in question are banned from participating. EVE may be a game, it is also a BUSINESS at the same time. Maybe time CCP started to act like that?

How would it look if Manchester United had a direct line to the referees and organisers of the Premier League and other soccer teams did not?

------------------------------------------------------------

Um maybe you didnt notice but eve has no rl impact unlike the lotto etc you mentioned. Rl comparisons to games just dont work mate.

No problem right, soccer is just a game...

Mister Spanky
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.05.30 00:10:00 - [5079]
 

The ISD guy was not, is not, and has never been a Goon.

MehTheTrader
University of Caille
Posted - 2007.05.30 00:29:00 - [5080]
 

Edited by: MehTheTrader on 30/05/2007 00:29:48

Originally by: Sergeant Spot
Um,....

Guys....
Folks are on to the witch hunt thing. Just thought you might want to know.
Originally by: CCP kieron

If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.


Kieron needs to be fired. He does not care about customer support. Is the business owner the same, selfish, like kieron, if so that is just ******ed. Can't believe I joined a game with cheating gm's, with selfish goals. Kieron please resign or something, you obviously don't care about community, only the money.

Richard Johannson
Posted - 2007.05.30 00:32:00 - [5081]
 

Originally by: Starfinder


After a visit to the K mans site(you know the one we can't link here), I am becoming convinced CCP Arkanon is an empty suit. Either he has no power or his position is a sham to trick us into trusting CCP. If there was any fear of him or his position, we would not be here having this discussion today. CCP employeees would be toeing the line and Bod would not be bragging in local about their msn addressbook. Rolling Eyes



/signed

Angelyn
Posted - 2007.05.30 00:41:00 - [5082]
 

Edited by: Angelyn on 30/05/2007 00:42:27
alright guys, this is slightly off topic, and I apologize totally for it, but something happenned at the store while I was out that just 1)blew my mind and 2)gave me a hint as to how far this thing really is getting. the guy in front of me in line was counting his change and looked at the cashier. he was a bit annoyed and said, (exact quote) "What are you trying to do BoB me?" the cashier had no idea what he was saying and asked for an explanation whereupon the guy said cheat him, because he was 50 cents short in change......Shockedand no, before anyone asks, I am not making this up!!!

Eric Black
Caldari
Tripocalyptic Enterprises
Posted - 2007.05.30 00:44:00 - [5083]
 

Originally by: Mister Spanky
The ISD guy was not, is not, and has never been a Goon.



----------------------------------

what about his other accounts? he did mention he had some.............

Richard Johannson
Posted - 2007.05.30 01:01:00 - [5084]
 

Edited by: Richard Johannson on 30/05/2007 01:02:59
Edited by: Richard Johannson on 30/05/2007 01:00:39
Originally by: Angelyn
Edited by: Angelyn on 30/05/2007 00:42:27
alright guys, this is slightly off topic, and I apologize totally for it, but something happenned at the store while I was out that just 1)blew my mind and 2)gave me a hint as to how far this thing really is getting. the guy in front of me in line was counting his change and looked at the cashier. he was a bit annoyed and said, (exact quote) "What are you trying to do BoB me?" the cashier had no idea what he was saying and asked for an explanation whereupon the guy said cheat him, because he was 50 cents short in change......Shockedand no, before anyone asks, I am not making this up!!!



Angelyn i dont make this up either, 2 days ago i read in a german internet forum an quite similar thing in german
but they were using the term Bobing as a word for cheating, i guess the two guys were eve players...



Ediz Daxx
FinFleet
Posted - 2007.05.30 01:02:00 - [5085]
 

Originally by: Mister Spanky
The ISD guy was not, is not, and has never been a Goon.


How do you know?

Shadow Elk
Posted - 2007.05.30 01:03:00 - [5086]
 

Edited by: Shadow Elk on 30/05/2007 01:03:29
Originally by: Ediz Daxx
Originally by: Mister Spanky
The ISD guy was not, is not, and has never been a Goon.


How do you know?


Through MSN. Now, if we also had MSN contact with devs we could confirm or deny it, couldnt we? Just a lil exampel.

Angelyn
Posted - 2007.05.30 01:05:00 - [5087]
 

Edited by: Angelyn on 30/05/2007 01:05:45
I talked with him afterward, he isn't an eve player, he plays CoV, some CoH, but a friend told him about this incident and he read the forum. He did say however that after reading the kind of stuff BoB was posting he wasn't going to play no matter how attracted he had been prior to that.

To me this says BoB are definately driving off possible clients, and where their is one, their most likely are several more...

Robert Denby
Posted - 2007.05.30 01:29:00 - [5088]
 

Originally by: Mik Nostrebor


I think that CCP needs to take some actions to indicate that they are taking all such issues seriously.


Call the U.N.!!!

Mr Friendly
The Lost and The Damned
Posted - 2007.05.30 01:35:00 - [5089]
 

As far as the ISD guy goes, the only name other than his ISD char that has come up is a member of Aegis Militia. Supposedly, an empire based RP group. From the *ahem* other forum's available to us, I've read nothing to indicate he is in the Goons, or connected with the Goons.

Of course, he might be a goonie, but it seems so far he isn't.

Of course, this may all be bull, but Dianabolic sure made an error by even mentioning the msn-friends bit :P, even if he's perfectly sincere in his innocence.

whoops.


Obsidian Reborn
Posted - 2007.05.30 01:38:00 - [5090]
 

Originally by: Jonas Vance
Originally by: Malloc Memrel
By way of anecdote since I ran out of room last post, we used to joke about an associate of mine at Blizzard having "Magic Dice". As is common in large dungeon crawls, the best loot would be "rolled" for by asking the system's random number generator for a number between one and a hundred, with the highest roller being allowed to take the most coveted items. This employee would almost always win the rolls. It didn't matter if the next highest roll was nine or ninety, he'd win it most of the time.

When he played on the public servers, his guildmates gave him good-natured grief about it- "Argh, you lucky son of a~!Mad"- but they just chalked it up to him being really lucky, as some people simply are.

Think, for a second, what their reaction would be if they knew he was a developer? Would it be so easy to pass his consistent good fortune off with the knowledge that he knows the people who designed the random number generator? Would it be impossible to concieve that he knew, somehow, how to fix the dice? Even if it was the farthest thing from the truth, there'd be the suspicion, and it wouldn't be unreasonable, which is why he's never told anyone outside the company anything about his character, his guild, anything, ever. His guildmates have no reason to suspect him because they have no idea they're playing with a Blizzard employee. Nobody ever has any idea that they're playing with Blizzard employees, not even to each other. I've heard of Blizzard people who went to guild meets incognito and discovered that their co-workers have been right there in their guild with them for months and months without even realizing it, so total was the secrecy.

I think EVE as a whole needs a new set of blinders put on it, one that obscures all vision between the customer side of the line and the corporate side of the line. Mixing the two is a pandora's box that has, is, and will inevitably lead to more public outcries over accusations of impropriety which ultimately hurt the company as a whole. I don't know how things are in Europe, but stateside the video game industry is one big incestuous family where everybody knows everybody else. How many times will "EVE Scandal!" have to appear on the front page of Slashdot before the company becomes a Resume' Stain? We're at twice, and that's pushing it already.


/signed, signed and SIGNED

You sir, win this thread.


Hey Arkanon Pay attention to this one he has a winner of an idea!!!!

Obsidian Reborn

Crux Australis
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.05.30 01:39:00 - [5091]
 

Quote:
Since last Friday, an unnamed corporation posted over 4000 times on EVE's message boards concerning these allegations. In addition, 1046 posts were made on Digg.com; 235 comments were added on Slashdot; and made multiple EVE-related edits on Wikipedia. Each of these sites was hit within a few hours of each other, at the start of the three-day Memorial Day weekend in the US and a three-day weekend in Iceland, all referencing unfounded allegations — now proven to be false — that occurred three weeks ago or longer.

The volume and timing of these near-simultaneous references is no coincidence: we were the target of a carefully constructed and well-timed social engineering effort by one of the largest player groups in our community. The intention? To undermine EVE Online and the credibility of CCP Games.

More specifically, the objective of this scheme was to permanently paint CCP as a biased and corrupt company that favors a select group of players over the rest of our community. In this particular case, instead of receiving notification of a possible problem and sufficient time to examine and address it, we faced a coordinated and hostile attack executed on our forums, Digg, Wikipedia, Slashdot, and other outlets at the beginning of a three-day weekend. We believe this speaks volumes of the intention of the person(s) responsible for orchestrating this scheme. Verification of this can be readily found on the forums of the people responsible—or at least could, the last time we looked.

Claims that the goal of this effort was to expose corruption within the company cannot be taken seriously. They are simply a smokescreen intended to mobilize and use the EVE community against CCP. There is no evidence to support the claim of information sent to CCP concerning internal corruption and wrongdoings on the part of our employees is being systematically suppressed.

The fact that this attack took place over a holiday weekend was especially revealing of motive, which we believe was specifically by design to ensure that CCP would not be able to react as fast and efficiently as we would under normal circumstances. The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack.


GG 'Unnamed Corporation'.

To all the sympathizers, now you know who you are in bed with.
And it's not BoD who is telling you.

Laughing

Alois Hammer
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.05.30 01:42:00 - [5092]
 

guys , guys , guys......
we cant honestly blame BOB for being such a bunch of assinine human beings....
i mean , just because they really dont care about the game (as DB proves it) , cuz of the uber-god help and support they get from the devs , we cant really blame them can we??
we all have played duke-nukem in god-mode ourselves , we never really cared if someone whined about how its unfair there either , im guessing to them its not cheating , just part of THEIR EVE , unfortunatley not ours.
well its coming up on day 5 im giving it 3 more days before the CCP-BOB censor train kicks in and starts **** all of this.
again , why play fair when your friendly dev is only a mouseclick away...unlike for all us other dirtbags that hafta wait for weeks at a time to get a response on our mundane and boring pettitions........

Angelyn
Posted - 2007.05.30 01:43:00 - [5093]
 

yeah, were not in bed with a group who's name is becoming synonymous with cheating in the gaming community, and not just in Eve!!Laughing

Richard Johannson
Posted - 2007.05.30 01:46:00 - [5094]
 


Originally by: Mik Nostrebor


Look at it this way. A business man (CCP) is accused of murder and corruption. He is hauled in front of a judge and the judge asks him to launch an investigation into his own guilt. He goes away and promises to come back with an unbiased finding. He gets some employees in his own company to look into the issue and compile a report. He reviews the report and makes sure it has the right spin. He comes back to the judge and says, "I can find no evidence whatsoever of my guilt against all accusations". The judge says "Fine. You are not guilty; off you go"

Issue finished. Justice is satisfied.




Well said!

You know they swep it under the rug like every time, i tell you in a few days they will come out with a statement look like this:

Hey guys we just finished our investigation of this whole thing and found only some minor issues, case closed. It could only happen because
none of the senior eve officials were present, once again only kids in the office. They were told again don't to do so in the future.
This time they agreed, case setteld. And now: MOVE ALONG, WHINER!


P.S. If you still want to leave, please hand over all your stuff and ships to BoB before you go, thanks.


Angelyn
Posted - 2007.05.30 01:50:00 - [5095]
 

I can see it now guys, since BoB talks about going on after eve to other game, there we are, a member of BoB in the next greatest space game, say, "Space Race 9000".

Ex-BoB member, "Yeha I played other online space games before, I was in Eve"
New corp member, "Hey that was a great game, too bad it went down like it did, hey what corp were you in there?"

Ex-BoB member, "Oh I was in BoB, we won the game"
slight pause.......

(Alliance switch over)
New Corp Member,"Guys, the new guy was in BoB!!! Can his rump, NOW!!!"

(Switch of to dev help channel)
New Corp Member, "Guys, this player says he was in BoB in Eve..."

(New game Dev Department manager)

"Wait, we let a BoB member from Eve into the game and we know what account he has, banned it now!!!"

Eldo Davip


ISD YARR
Posted - 2007.05.30 01:51:00 - [5096]
 

Results of the investigation are here. Please continue the discussion there. This thread is now locked.

Thread Locked

*click*


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