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Grim Faust
Minmatar
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.14 16:46:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: Blacklight

There are always plenty of incidents for pretty much every alliance that prove any generalisation to be just that, a generalisation and therefore innaccurate.

Rolling Eyes



What sort of generalization are you talking about that has bearing on what I posted that isn't true? I'm curious to see how it is you see things. And no, I'm not saying that to sound like a smartass, I'm quite honest when I ask.

Beyond Horizon
Caldari
Solar Dragons
SOLAR FLEET
Posted - 2007.05.14 16:51:00 - [182]
 

Originally by: Blacklight
Arguing about whether or not any alliance fights outnumbered or only fights with massively superior odds is a sure fire way to earn you a seat on the short bus to school.

There are always plenty of incidents for pretty much every alliance that prove any generalisation to be just that, a generalisation and therefore innaccurate.

Rolling Eyes



This has got be some smart PR move ! Why Blacklight's posts are always contrusctive and without the usual bob ignorance?

Hans Roaming
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2007.05.14 17:14:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: Grim Faust
Originally by: Blacklight

There are always plenty of incidents for pretty much every alliance that prove any generalisation to be just that, a generalisation and therefore innaccurate.

Rolling Eyes



What sort of generalization are you talking about that has bearing on what I posted that isn't true? I'm curious to see how it is you see things. And no, I'm not saying that to sound like a smartass, I'm quite honest when I ask.


Every alliance has incidents of fighting with superior odds and against the odds.

Remember that the people fighting you in FLA space were fighting Coalition forces in the North and not just FLA, this includes D2, Sparta, IRON etc Those gangs you faced were sized to face such opposition should it materialise on the field of battle. For questions about the defence of FLA space you will have to ask Coalition command and ultimately the person leading the campaign for the defence of the North from the Alliance.

Blacklight
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.14 17:25:00 - [184]
 

Edited by: Blacklight on 14/05/2007 17:24:05

Originally by: Grim Faust
Originally by: Blacklight

There are always plenty of incidents for pretty much every alliance that prove any generalisation to be just that, a generalisation and therefore innaccurate.

Rolling Eyes



What sort of generalization are you talking about that has bearing on what I posted that isn't true? I'm curious to see how it is you see things. And no, I'm not saying that to sound like a smartass, I'm quite honest when I ask.


I was making a point to the two people above yours and Mynas' posts (from my own alliance and D2) happily embarassing themselves whilst arguing the toss over whether BoB fights outnumbered or only when we have superior odds etc.. *repeat pointless argument 1000 times*... you must have posted whilst I was posting my reply.

Grim Faust
Minmatar
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.14 17:44:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Hans Roaming

Remember that the people fighting you in FLA space were fighting Coalition forces in the North and not just FLA, this includes D2, Sparta, IRON etc Those gangs you faced were sized to face such opposition should it materialise on the field of battle.


That's a good cover and it almost works. Almost, because the part that makes it untrue is the posts that exist poking at how FLA was knowingly abandoned in your pilots eyes. I've even seen an MC sig reflecting sattire of Raymen and us being left high and dry. You guys knew you were only fighting FLA/residents and maybe a handful of coalition alliance pilots brave enough that actually weren't in FLA.

But it happened no less and it's those sorts of things that make the alliance sound like they have double-standards when they say they want good square fights, but can't find any. It's a huge reflection on how things are when a titan is used, seemingly out of sheer boredom to turn up for a few seconds, wipe out the opposition and then leave.

These things all add up and there's a reason why a lot of people talk about it. They may be generalizations, but if they happen consistantly all over to all sorts of alliances, how can they be untrue? The only thing the alliance can do in such a case is wipe out all the opposition that complains about it. That doesn't make them right though, it only proves that they can use force when reason fails.

We had fun out there in Deklein when things were kept square. That is afterall what the games is supposed to be about. But when the "I win" buttons were brought in, who had fun then? I doubt anyone did and I'm sure even your own pilots sitting shooting POS' for god knows how many hours, unhindered, can agree with me.

Ice Breaker
Caldari
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2007.05.14 17:53:00 - [186]
 

Edited by: Ice Breaker on 14/05/2007 18:03:38
Originally by: Grim Faust
Almost, because the part that makes it untrue is the posts that exist poking at how FLA was knowingly abandoned in your pilots eyes.
There's always a chance the enemy will let a false sense of security grow within your ranks and the command, and drop something painful on your fleets/caps/whatever when you bring an "even" fleet. This is why even if in retrospect the odds you faced at some point don't look "fair", they could have been seen differently when the past decisions were made.

Edit: The point I'm trying to make is that you bring to a fight what you think you'll need, given what the enemy could bring, not "what was needed given what he had"...

Ice.

Grim Faust
Minmatar
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.14 18:01:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Ice Breaker

This is why even if in retrospect the odds you faced at some point don't look "fair", they could have been seen differently when the past decisions were made.
Ice.


Didn't look "fair" is a large understatement. Laughing

At any rate, some of the battles in Deklein were great and demonstrated how Eve should be. At other times they were lacking hugely in character from the eyes on the other side of the fence.

I guess I'll end this with the obligatory. "You haven't seen the last of us"

(Unless of course you guys intend to protect ESA indeffinitely. Razz)

dastommy79
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2007.05.14 19:57:00 - [188]
 

I understand what the MC pilots are trying to say about justifying the superblob against FLA. During that weekend that D2 was kicking everyones ass up in Fade, MC/YouWhat sieged a FLA pos coming out of reinforcement. We tackled an MC dread that was stuck in siege mode while a D2 member yelled "open the f*cking Cyno" in local. The dread didnt have a chance and the rest of their fleet jumped out.

After that weekend, BOB titans started showing up and more and more "pets" arrived in the north to out blob the D2 forces. They deserve credit for being able to put it together but 99.9% of the time against FLA, it was truly unnecesary. Also i would like to take the time to say thanks to The Sundering, Sparta and the foundation for regulary coming to our aid in O-2. Razor and IRON had some fun with ESA in 3jn with us too :)

Superblobs arnt fun for any side but when they play to win, they will use what ever advantages they can.

MaxSkywalker
Gallente
Corp 1 Allstars
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2007.05.14 20:26:00 - [189]
 

Join the dark side!! Cool

Johana Walker
Gallente
Lonestar Squadron
Posted - 2007.05.14 20:40:00 - [190]
 

Originally by: MaxSkywalker
Join the dark side!! Cool


Until they come for you.


Flinx Evenstar
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.05.14 20:51:00 - [191]
 

Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 14/05/2007 20:50:37
Originally by: Blacklight

I was making a point to the two people above yours and Mynas' posts (from my own alliance and D2) happily embarassing themselves whilst arguing the toss over whether BoB fights outnumbered or only when we have superior odds etc.. *repeat pointless argument 1000 times*... you must have posted whilst I was posting my reply.



I completely agree that it is a pointless argument about who fights outnumbered etc. However, I could link you quickly fights where D2 have fought outnumbered, not vague anecdotes, and words of "look it up"

The only times we have fought a BOB fleet in this war, YOU outnumbered us. So don't give me this, 3-1, no 5-1 , no it was 6-1 rubbish Laughing

I don't think I embarrassed myself by pointing out that your grunt was not telling the truth Wink

Your ships are like everyone else's. They pop when they take too much damage, and they produce a killmail, so we can see your set ups.

6v1 odds and you win Laughing...tell your foot-soldier to take a reality check

Edit: Since we were accused of running all the time, I should say something like...where was the MC superblob tonight?

Kenneys
Caldari
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.14 20:56:00 - [192]
 

High risk of death, small chance of success.. what are we waiting for? Razz

That would be a nice game to play.

Corphus
Gallente
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.05.15 19:49:00 - [193]
 

Edited by: Corphus on 15/05/2007 19:48:55
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Originally by: Corphus
something i walways wanted to know is the base hirng price for an "bring my enemy the apocalypse" service with the duration of a month?



A region or two of space ?

No seriously, stop whining at the MC for taking a contract. Stop whining that they need to be absolutely spotless and completely neutral. They don't.

They don't need you, you need them.



firstly somehow i miss the point where the quoted sentence can be interpreted as a whine. i was stating my point of view and why i think the coalition wouldnt try to hire the mc.

secondly the question was asked not to u but to seleene. i rellay wonder if there is somekind of contractbaseprice or if they just work on occasion for special rewards.

i dont argue with you for taking a side in a conflict which does not interest me at all, im not even taking a side or take part in it.
i didnt even know that mc took a contract from bob until u mentioned it. i always thought that mc was fighting off coalition forces since they attacked their capital yards some months ago.
i was asking just out of curiosity.
u however feel urself endangered by random posts from ppl like me. dont be an ass mate noone's trying to insult u here.

crice
Caldari
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.05.15 21:30:00 - [194]
 

Edited by: crice on 15/05/2007 21:29:06
All these posts are so amazing, I feel enlightened by all this.

Do you GOONS remember JV1V? Eh? Did you see LV crying on the forums about losing a battle we didn't have the chance to fight? Eh? Seriously think about what you post. We didn't even have a chance to WIN that fight, which I fully believe we would have.

So talk about Blob's? Are you serious? You guys had the biggest Blob Node crash in my 4 years of being in the game. I had to log in another account in Detroid to listen to what was happening.

You would have lost that battle and losing now was destiny, RA destruction is always going to happen in time.

I would have chosen quality over quantity any day.

Again... Please keep them new subscriptions coming, because it gives more targets more stuff to read and plenty of t1 junk to blow up.

see ya in space,

crice

and yes I am whining now... but but but ugh

Bashiri
Caldari
No.Mercy
Merciless.
Posted - 2007.05.15 21:42:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: dastommy79
I understand what the MC pilots are trying to say about justifying the superblob against FLA. During that weekend that D2 was kicking everyones ass up in Fade, MC/YouWhat sieged a FLA pos coming out of reinforcement. We tackled an MC dread that was stuck in siege mode while a D2 member yelled "open the f*cking Cyno" in local. The dread didnt have a chance and the rest of their fleet jumped out.

After that weekend, BOB titans started showing up and more and more "pets" arrived in the north to out blob the D2 forces. They deserve credit for being able to put it together but 99.9% of the time against FLA, it was truly unnecesary. Also i would like to take the time to say thanks to The Sundering, Sparta and the foundation for regulary coming to our aid in O-2. Razor and IRON had some fun with ESA in 3jn with us too :)

Superblobs arnt fun for any side but when they play to win, they will use what ever advantages they can.



Are you not part of the coallition that has a blob them selfs? It's only because they went to there home systems to defend and you got the blob. When it's there turn you will see post about it also. The coallition could of won this war against bob and it's allies if they worked together, but then again bob is one good pvp force and wouldn't go down easy.

As for superblob I cant say I like them,but if I put in a few years for a capital ship and i have the isk to buy them I will use them to support my corp/alliance by all means.

Titans I think should be nerf down seen they can hit and run. For a capital ship to do that and lay waste to a fleet ready to defend them selfs is just wrong, but who I'm I to complain about these things I'm sure CCP will make changes to this with all the players giving advise to how they should be put to make everyone happy(which will never happen) this will be fixed.

nico wurz250
Caldari
The X-Trading Company
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.05.15 21:47:00 - [196]
 

who cares?
the only way to control a game is?

Grim Faust
Minmatar
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.15 22:08:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: Bashiri

Are you not part of the coallition that has a blob them selfs? It's only because they went to there home systems to defend and you got the blob. When it's there turn you will see post about it also. The coallition could of won this war against bob and it's allies if they worked together, but then again bob is one good pvp force and wouldn't go down easy.



This is the part that you'd think would be prudent to point out. Yeah, we are in the coalition, however the amount of times we were cap-blobbed by the enemy far out-weighed the times we actually received cap support from within the coalition. Actually, I think we received it once, maybe twice. Beyond that, we really had no cap fleet since the money we had saved was stolen right before the war started.

To be honest, I don't really care about receiving cap support though. That's not the coalitions real problem. I think our alliance did fine without the majority of the coalitions cap help. Though I hope it serves as a warning towards the real problem to the rest of the coalition, if you don't start to act like you're on the same team you're soon going to find you don't have anything left to defend.

The Alliance is playing it smart, sorry if I'm pointing out the excellence of a plan, but they're removing the links in the chain one by one and they're doing it relentlessly. They aren't all over doing their own thing, they're in one spot and working together until that spot falls. Focus fire on a more grandeur scale.

If coalition forces started to mob up and take out the alliances space holders as such, the war would get interesting. It started like that with the dismantling of LV in a very quick manner, and then all of the sudden everything just stopped. For whatever reason, it doesn't matter, what does matter though is that mob that worked together so destructively has now become the prey because everyone that was in it is split up and is trying to pretend like nothing ever happened.

Of course this is only my opinion from my perspective. I'm sure lots is actually happening, but we'll see in a few months time exactly how effective it is.

Plim
Gallente
Everything Financial
Posted - 2007.05.15 23:35:00 - [198]
 

There should be a powerblob powerballad sung by Joe ****er and Jennifer Warnes.

Powerblobs blob us up where we belong
Where the eagles get instapopped, in a game where the devs are high
Powerblobs lift us up where we belong
Far from the game we know
Up where pvp blows goat

Eskalin
Minmatar
Evolution
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.05.16 00:38:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Takahashi Arran
this is the fundamental difference between the coalition and the alliance. Logistics. in a straight up fight with everyone on the same vent/TS, in the same lag free system thee coalition would wipe the floor with the alliance every time. But until that happens i expect them to continue to loose space


i have to ask, are you playing the same game as the rest of us?

dastommy79
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2007.05.16 00:40:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Bashiri
Originally by: dastommy79
I understand what the MC pilots are trying to say about justifying the superblob against FLA. During that weekend that D2 was kicking everyones ass up in Fade, MC/YouWhat sieged a FLA pos coming out of reinforcement. We tackled an MC dread that was stuck in siege mode while a D2 member yelled "open the f*cking Cyno" in local. The dread didnt have a chance and the rest of their fleet jumped out.

After that weekend, BOB titans started showing up and more and more "pets" arrived in the north to out blob the D2 forces. They deserve credit for being able to put it together but 99.9% of the time against FLA, it was truly unnecesary. Also i would like to take the time to say thanks to The Sundering, Sparta and the foundation for regulary coming to our aid in O-2. Razor and IRON had some fun with ESA in 3jn with us too :)

Superblobs arnt fun for any side but when they play to win, they will use what ever advantages they can.



Are you not part of the coallition that has a blob them selfs? It's only because they went to there home systems to defend and you got the blob. When it's there turn you will see post about it also. The coallition could of won this war against bob and it's allies if they worked together, but then again bob is one good pvp force and wouldn't go down easy.

As for superblob I cant say I like them,but if I put in a few years for a capital ship and i have the isk to buy them I will use them to support my corp/alliance by all means.

Titans I think should be nerf down seen they can hit and run. For a capital ship to do that and lay waste to a fleet ready to defend them selfs is just wrong, but who I'm I to complain about these things I'm sure CCP will make changes to this with all the players giving advise to how they should be put to make everyone happy(which will never happen) this will be fixed.



AHHH i think i didnt word my post very well. I was talking about an instance where FLA was reinforced by D2's capital fleet in the defence of the Motel. A very large blob of D2 cap ships (was an awesome sight). So my point is that both sides blob each other, we are all guilty. As for D2's "lack of assistance" to the FLA defence, D2 was busy trying to save Fade as we were fending off the hostiles in Dek. When D2 had the numbers and ability to assist, they did. Could they have done it more, sure. Whatever the motel fell and i had the funnest time in my eve career during its defence.

I agree with you that titans need a bit of a nerf but thats up to ccp.



Kvarium Ki
Amarr
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.05.16 04:57:00 - [201]
 

BoB has managed to recruit a very high percentage of the highly skilled players in the game (altho the new influx of recruits over the recent months are lacking the forum warrior 5 skill that the community are accustomed to) and at the same time build what seems to be a very strong T2 production line. It is the ability to fit T2 ships all the time that really sets BoB apart in my opinion more so then player skill.

You (BoB) have to understand that the coalition must make up for lack of skill and elite equipment with numbers, what else can they do short of spending the next 2 years setting up an extensive POS network (that you will destroy anyway)?

If you are honest and lets put the roleplaying aside for a minute here and remember that this is a game, you can't possibly expect 1v1 fights with the exception perhaps of capital ship combat.

KK.

Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.05.16 08:47:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Beyond Horizon
Originally by: Blacklight
Arguing about whether or not any alliance fights outnumbered or only fights with massively superior odds is a sure fire way to earn you a seat on the short bus to school.

There are always plenty of incidents for pretty much every alliance that prove any generalisation to be just that, a generalisation and therefore innaccurate.

Rolling Eyes



This has got be some smart PR move ! Why Blacklight's posts are always contrusctive and without the usual bob ignorance?


Thats why he is Zee Boss u noob , duuuh Razz

Btw do not mix ignorance with arrogance or the usual chest beating, as it was explained b4 chest beating or what ever ppl call it is done by every entity on this forum once they press the create new thread . Even a battle report no matter how the person who makes it tries to be subjective you will always find soem bitter elements or fanbois who try and twist stuff and turn it to a smack fest. Easiest way to ruin an argument or an announcment is to turn it to a mud slingign contest where ppl ignore any other issue and focus on he said she said etc.

Indiano Arko
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.05.16 09:42:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: dastommy79
I understand what the MC pilots are trying to say about justifying the superblob against FLA.


Just to clarify: the "superblobs" have a place in this War not because someone want to overkill someone, but for the purpose to reach the victory with as less fight as possible in a shortest terms.

"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
Sun-tzu (~400 BC), The Art of War. Planning a Siege

P.S. It's only my POV.

DeadDuck
Amarr
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.16 09:52:00 - [204]
 

Well yesterday the Alliance made a impressive show of force. At the same time BOB Capital fleet was engaging RAGoon Capital Fleet, from what I read, 50 BOB Caps + 3/4 Titans, about 100 Caps were attacking in the North.

Impressive I must say that again.




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