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Silinary
Gallente
Imperium Technologies
Sodalitas XX
Posted - 2007.05.15 08:51:00 - [661]
 

Intersting.


It amuses me that there is a strong possibility that had most of the "Allies" been left alone ... they wouldn't be involved at all. Instead, it seemed the coalition wanted a scorched earth policy hitting everyone, and forcing everyone to be involved whether they wanted to be, or not.

Oh thats right ... we were just being "liberated" as I believe it was. (That came form Pure. ... not sure who else fell in line with that line of thought)

Malachon Draco
Caldari
eXceeded
Posted - 2007.05.15 08:56:00 - [662]
 

Originally by: Silinary
Intersting.


It amuses me that there is a strong possibility that had most of the "Allies" been left alone ... they wouldn't be involved at all. Instead, it seemed the coalition wanted a scorched earth policy hitting everyone, and forcing everyone to be involved whether they wanted to be, or not.

Oh thats right ... we were just being "liberated" as I believe it was. (That came form Pure. ... not sure who else fell in line with that line of thought)


I do remember thinking at the time, surely those alliances would rather be able to claim independence than rely on someone else to hold their stations and set their standings?

The Americans might have been much better off under English rule, even if they had to pay a few measly taxes. Yet they chose independence. I know, I know, reallife analogies are bad, but still, I took that desire for independence as a part of human nature, game or no game.

Guess I was wrong.


Tzrailasa
Gallente
Tzrailasa Corp
Posted - 2007.05.15 09:08:00 - [663]
 

Edited by: Tzrailasa on 15/05/2007 09:07:09
Originally by: Avon
On a slightly related note, I still haven't seen anyone provide the link or evidence I asked for about the system cap in F-T.
Shame that such a claim can take such a firm hold in "popular culture" without proof to back it up.

Avon, I don't think anyone outside CCP really know for sure what went on in F-TE1T, but my best guess I've posted here (last half of post).
Coming from a client-server background, this is the most plausible theory I can come up with, especially since local in F-TE1T never exceeded 550 according to people who were there (I was lagged out in the next system and couldn't get in either).

It doesn't seem plausible that there were any fundamental game mechanics changed between JV1V and F-TE1T, given the information available, but what WAS probably changed was CCP fixing the bugs that made JV1V crash the node! IIRC, they did quite a bit of testing afterwards on the test server to find them...

Malachon Draco
Caldari
eXceeded
Posted - 2007.05.15 09:21:00 - [664]
 

Originally by: Tzrailasa
Edited by: Tzrailasa on 15/05/2007 09:07:09
Originally by: Avon
On a slightly related note, I still haven't seen anyone provide the link or evidence I asked for about the system cap in F-T.
Shame that such a claim can take such a firm hold in "popular culture" without proof to back it up.

Avon, I don't think anyone outside CCP really know for sure what went on in F-TE1T, but my best guess I've posted here (last half of post).
Coming from a client-server background, this is the most plausible theory I can come up with, especially since local in F-TE1T never exceeded 550 according to people who were there (I was lagged out in the next system and couldn't get in either).

It doesn't seem plausible that there were any fundamental game mechanics changed between JV1V and F-TE1T, given the information available, but what WAS probably changed was CCP fixing the bugs that made JV1V crash the node! IIRC, they did quite a bit of testing afterwards on the test server to find them...



The main reason as far as I can determine is that people assume this cap was put in place was the fact that the Coalition support fleet was apparently unable to be jumped into the system since it was 'full'. Which means a cap existed, though I guess we will never know how high that cap exactly was.

The reason people distrust BoB on this is the fact you only put 200 in the system, which could be indicative of 2 things:
- Either you knew of the rather low cap and used it to cut off part of the Coalition fleet without support in order to kill it.
- Or you were afraid of the nodecrash and subsequent jumpin of hostiles taking over the system like JV, making you unable to login. Thus you decided to leave main forces outside, so in the event of a nodecrash you could also take advantage of the fact people jumping in get priority over those logging in.

The second seems plausible enough, except for the fact that you put all your caps inside the system. If the system had crashed, your capitals would have been stuck unable to login.

- A third possibility would have been for you to expect to be able to prevent the node from crashing by only putting in a minimal amount of people, and thus only your capfleet. However this would also have the flaw that you knew your enemy had ample numbers to crash the system all by themselves, even without any BoB or ally present.

From all that, and some previous 'episodes' which cast doubt on the close relationship between CCP and BoB, I don't think people considering this a CCP-sponsored victory are completely crazy. It may or may not be correct (I don't know), but reasonable deduction leaves it as a possibily IMO.

Note that despite the cap-loss and whatever was or was not cooking in that POS, I still consider F-T a huge success for the Coalition. It was THE OPERATION where all of the Northern and Eastern Coalition partners worked together. Had they continued to do so in the aftermath, the map would not have been what it is today.

R0ot
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.05.15 09:24:00 - [665]
 

Originally by: Malachon Draco
If the system had crashed, your capitals would have been stuck unable to login.


Your forgetting to mention that the coalition capitals would have been stuck in the same boat, so it would have been support fleet jumping in from both Factions and then the capitals inside getting lucky to log in, since neither sides capitals would get priority over the others on log in. Wink

Malachon Draco
Caldari
eXceeded
Posted - 2007.05.15 09:44:00 - [666]
 

Originally by: R0ot
Originally by: Malachon Draco
If the system had crashed, your capitals would have been stuck unable to login.


Your forgetting to mention that the coalition capitals would have been stuck in the same boat, so it would have been support fleet jumping in from both Factions and then the capitals inside getting lucky to log in, since neither sides capitals would get priority over the others on log in. Wink


Well, unless the Coalition would have used, say, the same tactic as in LV? Jump in all the small ships, wait for nodecrash, then jump in capitals. It was their 'MO' so to speak wasn't it? At least, I think that was what LV complained about.

Hans Roaming
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2007.05.15 09:47:00 - [667]
 

Originally by: Malachon Draco

The reason people distrust BoB on this is the fact you only put 200 in the system, which could be indicative of 2 things:
- Either you knew of the rather low cap and used it to cut off part of the Coalition fleet without support in order to kill it.
- Or you were afraid of the nodecrash and subsequent jumpin of hostiles taking over the system like JV, making you unable to login. Thus you decided to leave main forces outside, so in the event of a nodecrash you could also take advantage of the fact people jumping in get priority over those logging in.



If you remember the battle report, the Alliance set up a defence in depth designed to separate the Coalition cap ships from the bulk of their support which is what happened.

Malachon Draco
Caldari
eXceeded
Posted - 2007.05.15 09:56:00 - [668]
 

Originally by: Hans Roaming
Originally by: Malachon Draco

The reason people distrust BoB on this is the fact you only put 200 in the system, which could be indicative of 2 things:
- Either you knew of the rather low cap and used it to cut off part of the Coalition fleet without support in order to kill it.
- Or you were afraid of the nodecrash and subsequent jumpin of hostiles taking over the system like JV, making you unable to login. Thus you decided to leave main forces outside, so in the event of a nodecrash you could also take advantage of the fact people jumping in get priority over those logging in.



If you remember the battle report, the Alliance set up a defence in depth designed to separate the Coalition cap ships from the bulk of their support which is what happened.


A titan jumpbridge can easily nullify that tactic, I would assume BoB takes such things into account.

I am not saying what went on there was cheating. I do not know.

All I can say is that with regards to the strategies employed by BoB, with their knowledge of what assets were arrayed against them, their strategy could very well have backfired immensely and would have if the Coalition has been able to jumpbridge its support in (and probably crash the node).

*snip* Please do not post accusations of cheating on the forums. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])

R0ot
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.05.15 10:06:00 - [669]
 

Originally by: Malachon Draco
Well, unless the Coalition would have used, say, the same tactic as in LV? Jump in all the small ships, wait for nodecrash, then jump in capitals. It was their 'MO' so to speak wasn't it? At least, I think that was what LV complained about.


Well forgetting what I said and just going with the above in mind, which would be better allow one side to intentionally crash a node in other to win or cap a system at a certain number (which even by what you said bob had 200) if the cap was 500 so to speak that would still give a 3:2 advantage in the coalition favor.

Juan Andalusian
Gallente
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.05.15 10:07:00 - [670]
 

Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Hans Roaming
Originally by: Malachon Draco

The reason people distrust BoB on this is the fact you only put 200 in the system, which could be indicative of 2 things:
- Either you knew of the rather low cap and used it to cut off part of the Coalition fleet without support in order to kill it.
- Or you were afraid of the nodecrash and subsequent jumpin of hostiles taking over the system like JV, making you unable to login. Thus you decided to leave main forces outside, so in the event of a nodecrash you could also take advantage of the fact people jumping in get priority over those logging in.



If you remember the battle report, the Alliance set up a defence in depth designed to separate the Coalition cap ships from the bulk of their support which is what happened.


A titan jumpbridge can easily nullify that tactic, I would assume BoB takes such things into account.

I am not saying what went on there was cheating. I do not know.

All I can say is that with regards to the strategies employed by BoB, with their knowledge of what assets were arrayed against them, their strategy could very well have backfired immensely and would have if the Coalition has been able to jumpbridge its support in (and probably crash the node).

*snip*


1) We knew from experience, having used jumpbridges more than anyone around, that the lag and delays from jumpbridging ****loads of people are far worse for the people attempting to come in. We also knew that getting normal jumps via the gates would cause a lot more lag than any bridge would, hence why the support fleets were in the surrounding systems holding em.

2) Jumpbridged ships don't appear cloaked btw. Even if they had managed to bring in proper ammounts they would have been DDed. No doomsday was needed in F-T as events unfolded but we had 2 Titans at the ready as we were expecting a flood of both Capital and support ships.

Malachon Draco
Caldari
eXceeded
Posted - 2007.05.15 10:21:00 - [671]
 

Originally by: R0ot
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Well, unless the Coalition would have used, say, the same tactic as in LV? Jump in all the small ships, wait for nodecrash, then jump in capitals. It was their 'MO' so to speak wasn't it? At least, I think that was what LV complained about.


Well forgetting what I said and just going with the above in mind, which would be better allow one side to intentionally crash a node in other to win or cap a system at a certain number (which even by what you said bob had 200) if the cap was 500 so to speak that would still give a 3:2 advantage in the coalition favor.


I am not passing judgement here or even claiming to know who knew what.

I am just saying that the tactic used by BoB was surprising considering the numbers and types of ships arrayed agains them, and could SUGGEST (note: suggest is nowhere near the same as prove) that they knew about the cap.

Perhaps there are other explanations, but dismissing the people who claim a hack out of hand is not smart IMO, nor a way to increase your credibility.

A more detailed explanation as to the how and why of BoBs strategy could have gone a long way to explaining why it wasn't a CCP assisted victory according to BoB.

V4MPIRELLA
Caldari
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.15 10:26:00 - [672]
 

Originally by: Silinary
Intersting.


It amuses me that there is a strong possibility that had most of the "Allies" been left alone ... they wouldn't be involved at all. Instead, it seemed the coalition wanted a scorched earth policy hitting everyone, and forcing everyone to be involved whether they wanted to be, or not.

Oh thats right ... we were just being "liberated" as I believe it was. (That came form Pure. ... not sure who else fell in line with that line of thought)


Can you explain me how can you talk about being "liberated" while you are paying monthly ransom to your overlord and being called 'pet' by them aswell ?

Proxay
Gallente
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.05.15 10:29:00 - [673]
 

Originally by: V4MPIRELLA
Originally by: Silinary
Intersting.


It amuses me that there is a strong possibility that had most of the "Allies" been left alone ... they wouldn't be involved at all. Instead, it seemed the coalition wanted a scorched earth policy hitting everyone, and forcing everyone to be involved whether they wanted to be, or not.

Oh thats right ... we were just being "liberated" as I believe it was. (That came form Pure. ... not sure who else fell in line with that line of thought)


Can you explain me how can you talk about being "liberated" while you are paying monthly ransom to your overlord and being called 'pet' by them aswell ?


FIX / Xelas / Aftermath and a few other entities dont' pay rent, contrary to popular belief.

Traxio Nacho
Caldari
Dark Knights of Deneb
Posted - 2007.05.15 10:35:00 - [674]
 

Originally by: DeadDuck
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
well d2 has 2 motherships and a titan, i think mc is using 2 motherships themselves, with the help of a bob titan?
unfortunately tho d2 uses its titan to camp in lowsec..

its not about sp or isk or how long uve been int he game, its what you make out of it.


MC is using 2 MS ???!!!! Shocked Laughing
D2 Titan camping low sec systems ???!!! ShockedLaughing Well better check our KB !!!

Your lack of information only shows how much BOB has been involved in the Northern War...






Only just seen this bit but it might have been pointed out already but D2 have not used their titan in low sec, for the most part it has been in the action although most of the time by itself.

However i'm sure members of FIRMA and DKOD can confirm D2's motherships of the wyvern class are normally seen in M-O and the surrounding low sec areas.

Deadduck just look at your own killboard and your alliance members comments. I think that's what Rexthor Hammerfists meant rather than your titan.

Cedart
Gallente
Deepest Slumber
Posted - 2007.05.15 10:36:00 - [675]
 

Originally by: Malachon Draco

I do remember thinking at the time, surely those alliances would rather be able to claim independence than rely on someone else to hold their stations and set their standings?

The Americans might have been much better off under English rule, even if they had to pay a few measly taxes. Yet they chose independence. I know, I know, reallife analogies are bad, but still, I took that desire for independence as a part of human nature, game or no game.

Guess I was wrong.





That's an interesting viewpoint. Because i myself have been considering BoB and 'pets' more like a federation than an empire. Of course, i have no direct experience with them, but from reading the forums i got the impression that majority of the 'pets' chose to become one themselves.

I would presume they chose so after considering all possible options, and they decided for whatever reason that BoBs offer was best for them. And as such decision shows that they consider BoB to be trustworthy, i would except it to take considerably more effort than just saying to them "But you can be free if you join us!" to turn them against BoB.

Trind2222
Amarr
The Red Ring
Posted - 2007.05.15 10:39:00 - [676]
 

Edited by: Trind2222 on 15/05/2007 10:36:47
Bob saw they came and you know rest whel done BOB Very Happy

Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.05.15 10:51:00 - [677]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Pepperami
Etho, I'm glad you're choosing to "go out" of moa by doing your upmost to drag their name(your friends??) through the dirt and cause as many problems as you can. A real insight to your way of thinking.

Smack me, call me whatever. You've shown your true colours and are now being ejected. In future I'll give you some advice
Cyberian Ragnos > Whoever is not satisfied can and should leave whatever dissatisfies them
No wait, that's your own. Troll on.



Kid, a few things:

First, nobody drags other people name through the dirty or "make them look like idiots" - Pepperami. That is something only you can do to yourself, and you are quite good at it.

You lost the reason of your argument the moment you started to smack me here in this forum. And it was a very bad tasted, low and childish smack I should say. Like a children throwing a tantrum because someone got his toy.

Second, I am sure most of MoA think you are the idiot here. And ironically I had nothing to do with it. Your moronic decisions, demands and authoritarism where the things that lead them to it. I am "glad" you are showing your colors here. Maybe someday you will be accepted into BoB. You certainly are their material.

The troll here is you. You decided to invade this thread to make low personal attacks against me. Now take the heat, little peppy. Don't flame if you cannot take the flames.





You sir are a total hypocrite here and pardon me a tool as well.

I am not sure what pepp's title in COW alliance but i am sure he is an offical speacker so basicly your contradicting and smacking your own alliance offical spokesman.
The following facts can be deducted:

- You dont like COW but your too chicken to tell your own opinon and you just stick there coz your enjoing either the alliance ticker or what ever benefits.

- If above is false then ok , u dissagree with your alliance leadership but u lack the intelligence to address it in proper channels and just come on PUBLIC forums and smack like a rabid moron insulting ur own ppl.

- Yes you can make you corp or alliance look like idiots when u keep doing stupid stuff like posting crap or publicly insult them or smack them. Such selfish behaviour just express how you aint a team player and perfer to have ur epeen b4 ur own alliance best intrest .

In short the faster you get booted or leave the better for COW sicne they do have fine corps and fine ppl and its a shame to see them have such smacktards in their ranks.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.05.15 10:56:00 - [678]
 

Originally by: Malachon Draco

I am not passing judgement
I am just saying that the tactic used by BoB was surprising considering the numbers and types of ships arrayed agains them, and could SUGGEST (note: suggest is nowhere near the same as prove) that they knew about the cap.

Perhaps there are other explanations, but dismissing the people who claim a hack out of hand is not smart IMO, nor a way to increase your credibility.

A more detailed explanation as to the how and why of BoBs strategy could have gone a long way to explaining why it wasn't a CCP assisted victory according to BoB.

You are arguing that BoB knowing about the cap is evidence of something unfair, as if the existance of that cap is fact.
Sure sounds like a straw man to me.

Leandra Anor
Minmatar
Hysera.
Posted - 2007.05.15 11:24:00 - [679]
 

Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Evil Thug
Weak argument. This is indeed game. But you are interacting with real people.
I heard you in fraps recording, when BoB forces took down Cyvok and if you are taking game so easy, why your voice was trembling in that episode ? Wink


That's what adrenaline does, ET, that's why I love the game - you've never trembled in eve? Your hands have never shook?

Then, I have sympathy for you, because that feeling, or the search of it, is what keeps me playing.


I've been there many a time.... but DANG! it sure makes pvp hard sometimes! Wink

Chirinako
Caldari
The Junkyard Dogs
Talos Coalition
Posted - 2007.05.15 11:50:00 - [680]
 

Originally by: Proxay
Originally by: V4MPIRELLA
Originally by: Silinary
Intersting.


It amuses me that there is a strong possibility that had most of the "Allies" been left alone ... they wouldn't be involved at all. Instead, it seemed the coalition wanted a scorched earth policy hitting everyone, and forcing everyone to be involved whether they wanted to be, or not.

Oh thats right ... we were just being "liberated" as I believe it was. (That came form Pure. ... not sure who else fell in line with that line of thought)


Can you explain me how can you talk about being "liberated" while you are paying monthly ransom to your overlord and being called 'pet' by them aswell ?


FIX / Xelas / Aftermath and a few other entities dont' pay rent, contrary to popular belief.


Exactly. I've been in fix for almost half a year and we haven't paid a penny of rent ro Mr Bob. As much as you'd like to think we have; really, Bob just love us and give us free accomodation, food, dancers and quafé. They tuck us in at night too, Molle even read me a bedtime story once.

Hans Roaming
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2007.05.15 13:03:00 - [681]
 

Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: R0ot
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Well, unless the Coalition would have used, say, the same tactic as in LV? Jump in all the small ships, wait for nodecrash, then jump in capitals. It was their 'MO' so to speak wasn't it? At least, I think that was what LV complained about.


Well forgetting what I said and just going with the above in mind, which would be better allow one side to intentionally crash a node in other to win or cap a system at a certain number (which even by what you said bob had 200) if the cap was 500 so to speak that would still give a 3:2 advantage in the coalition favor.


I am not passing judgement here or even claiming to know who knew what.

I am just saying that the tactic used by BoB was surprising considering the numbers and types of ships arrayed agains them, and could SUGGEST (note: suggest is nowhere near the same as prove) that they knew about the cap.

Perhaps there are other explanations, but dismissing the people who claim a hack out of hand is not smart IMO, nor a way to increase your credibility.

A more detailed explanation as to the how and why of BoBs strategy could have gone a long way to explaining why it wasn't a CCP assisted victory according to BoB.



If there was a cap so low as to prevent the Coalition from jumping in then a better deployment than defence in depth would have been to pack the system with Alliance ships to reach a point where only a few Coalition ships could get in at a time and thus die. That fact that the Alliance forces were not deployed in that way suggests that BoB either did not know or that capping was not a factor.

Defence in depth is an excellent deployment against forces large enough to crash a node as the systems effected are not the ones where you have carriers repping those POS shields. It turns the former advantage of a huge node crashing blob into a disadvantage for them. The deployment of everything on the in gate by LV failed so it wouldn't have been prudent to deploy a defence in the same way. Therefore the deployment is not surprising really given that every defensive ship in system had failed to defend a similar attack on LV earlier in the conflict.

Danti Shidomu
Gallente
Ctrl-Q Inc.
Posted - 2007.05.15 13:29:00 - [682]
 

Edited by: Danti Shidomu on 15/05/2007 13:27:53
Originally by: Buxaroo
Edited by: Buxaroo on 11/05/2007 12:43:53
You know, I am a pretty nice guy. I never got off on seeing others suffer.

But after seeing all the bitter replies, all the excuses, all the crying, I have got to say I am getting all tingly inside and am enjoying your suffering. You brought this onto yourselves.

You cry that Titans are breaking EVE. Yet D2, ASCN, AAA, et al have had/has Titans and yet you don't seem to know how to use them to their advantage (well Evil Thug seems to use his a lot, I ought to know sense my Hyperion was one of the first group to get a introduction to his DDVery Happy).

Learn. Adapt.

And please stop with the "kids living in the basement" type comments. It's pretty lame. So what if BoB are hardcore about this game.

I guess you guys would say Michael Jordan didn't have a life because he spent so much time trying to win at basketball Rolling Eyes



A-****-MEN!
I'm not with or against BOB (Altough against would be fun, massive challenge), but this is exactly what i posted about some weeks ago!

Lorn Yeager
Gallente
Versatech Co.
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2007.05.15 13:42:00 - [683]
 

Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Silinary
Intersting.


It amuses me that there is a strong possibility that had most of the "Allies" been left alone ... they wouldn't be involved at all. Instead, it seemed the coalition wanted a scorched earth policy hitting everyone, and forcing everyone to be involved whether they wanted to be, or not.

Oh thats right ... we were just being "liberated" as I believe it was. (That came form Pure. ... not sure who else fell in line with that line of thought)


I do remember thinking at the time, surely those alliances would rather be able to claim independence than rely on someone else to hold their stations and set their standings?

The Americans might have been much better off under English rule, even if they had to pay a few measly taxes. Yet they chose independence. I know, I know, reallife analogies are bad, but still, I took that desire for independence as a part of human nature, game or no game.

Guess I was wrong.




Your post makes sence, but you dont understand our situation. And thats why you are "wrong" if you want to use your own terminology.

We ARE independent. We pay NO rent. We hold our OWN station.
Going on a crusade with coalition to gain "freedom" we would have lost just that... our freedom.

That is something outsiders fail to understand properly.
- this is because of ignorance (you cant know everything - nobody does) and because of propaganda repeated so many times that,
for some, it becomes a truth.



Ling Xiao
Minmatar
Prism Project Technologies
Posted - 2007.05.15 13:47:00 - [684]
 

The relationship between BoB and FIX seems to more closely resemble USA/UK than with colonial British Empire over America.

America could easily crush the UK in terms of military, as could BoB do to FIX. But politics is all about ensuring a situation where that would bring no advantage.

Then again what do I know.

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2007.05.15 13:52:00 - [685]
 

Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 15/05/2007 13:53:10
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel

You sir are a total hypocrite here and pardon me a tool as well.

I am not sure what pepp's title in COW alliance but i am sure he is an offical speacker so basicly your contradicting and smacking your own alliance offical spokesman.



Firstly to be as hipocryte as you bobbits I have to take a lot of lessons yet. And even Peppy is not even close you guys. So please resume to your cheating, little kid and stop talking nonsense.

And yes, I contradict my alliance speaker, because I have my own opinion which is quite different from his. You see, I have my own opinions, what unfortunately is a rare trait among people these days.

Quote:

The following facts can be deducted:

- You dont like COW but your too chicken to tell your own opinon and you just stick there coz your enjoing either the alliance ticker or what ever benefits.



I tell my opinion openly and all the time. To the point I was warned not to post multiple times. Cow's leaders do not like different opinions you see. I sticked for a couple months because I was asked by my friends in MoA to stay, friends which include MoA's leadership. I won't stick anymore, though. I reached my limit of tolerance.

Quote:

- If above is false then ok , u dissagree with your alliance leadership but u lack the intelligence to address it in proper channels and just come on PUBLIC forums and smack like a rabid moron insulting ur own ppl.



I insulted you, and one spoiled kid who thinks he can order what others can or cannot say in a PUBLIC forum. Regardless of the alliance or corporation I am, nobody owns me. I speak my mind freely anywhere I want. In the "proper channels" whatever they are, and to the public.

Quote:

- Yes you can make you corp or alliance look like idiots when u keep doing stupid stuff like posting crap or publicly insult them or smack them. Such selfish behaviour just express how you aint a team player and perfer to have ur epeen b4 ur own alliance best intrest .



My alliance best interest is secundary to my beliefs. Sorry, but I cannot condone the backing up of low life cheaters, like Bob. And again, nobody can make other people look like idiots. It is a thing only you can do. Like you are doing now, for example, speaking of what you have very little information about and making ridiculous and fallacious "deductions" as if you were smart. lol.

Quote:

In short the faster you get booted or leave the better for COW sicne they do have fine corps and fine ppl and its a shame to see them have such smacktards in their ranks.


CoW are fine pvpers and there are very good people in there. My corp mates for example. There are a lot of idiots like pepper too, who did most of the smack in this thread, by the way, together with bobbits.

CoW made a terrible mistake in joining cheaters like you. They always played clean and with honor and for the sake of a grudge threw all this away for the advantage to be associated with cheaters.

Now, you can hold their hands and continue in your fantasy world together, thinking high of yourselves, while you watch Sirmolle beating his chest, smacking your opponents as a little kid and cheating a little more.

Regards,

Etho

Herculite
Caldari
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.05.15 13:59:00 - [686]
 

Originally by: Malachon Draco


I do remember thinking at the time, surely those alliances would rather be able to claim independence than rely on someone else to hold their stations and set their standings?

The Americans might have been much better off under English rule, even if they had to pay a few measly taxes. Yet they chose independence. I know, I know, reallife analogies are bad, but still, I took that desire for independence as a part of human nature, game or no game.

Guess I was wrong.




Yes because a south dominated by Ragoon would have been 'liberation'. Laughing

Met the new boss, same as the old boss, except the new boss doesn't let you run plexes and doesn't help defend you.

As a member of FIX for 5 or so months, BoB was there when we really needed them and left us alone otherwise.

Pepperami
Minmatar
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2007.05.15 17:36:00 - [687]
 

Etho, We do not like people who publicly smack our allies, this is for simple reasons;

1) You're representing us and even if you don't think so, your opinion is given somewhat "officialness" simply by being on this forum. Misrepresentation is not beneficial to an alliance (Just ask t20).
2) People who clearly don't like our choices, have no reason to be in our alliance. There is no forcing people to hold certain opinions, however if we do something that contradicts their views so wildly as it has yours, which forces them to do 1) and then you are no use to us. There's plenty more places you can go which will suite your choices and opinions.
3) If you think any organised, ambitious, alliance wants to hold onto members who don't share at least a basic way of common thinking, then you won't understand why your behaviour is so unacceptable.

So good luck finding something that suits you, and some real advice: you shouldn't believe blindly everything you've read about people.

Pretty sure that's many more responses than you're worth. Very Happy

Arenis Xemdal
Amarr
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.15 18:19:00 - [688]
 

Edited by: Arenis Xemdal on 15/05/2007 18:18:24
Pepperami, I wouldn't worry about it too much. When the blackout was lifted, a hundred forum "professionals" "delighted" because they'd have something to do now. Etho is probably one of them. If he took himself with any bit of seriousness, he would have quit CoW to find an alliance more suitable to his beliefs like you said.

Crazy ass filter. Neutral

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2007.05.15 23:18:00 - [689]
 

Originally by: Pepperami
Etho, We do not like people who publicly smack our allies, this is for simple reasons;

1) You're representing us and even if you don't think so, your opinion is given somewhat "officialness" simply by being on this forum. Misrepresentation is not beneficial to an alliance (Just ask t20).



I am representing you in the same way a citizen represents his or her country. Even if the majority of an organization have a different opinion an individual has the right of expressing his own in any civilized country in this world. This is a game, and you can do to me even less than my government can do when I critize its wrongs.

You have no morals whatsoever to talk about smacking, Pepperami. Especially after your first post in this thread. If I sma cked our "allies" you smacked one of your members in this same forum. So just shut up and stop making yourself seem even more of an idiot. Your gag order was childish and authoritarian, your allegiances are rotten and you are an hypocrite when you criticize RA or Goon for minor exploits while considering the biggest exploiters in this game as "allies".

Quote:

2) People who clearly don't like our choices, have no reason to be in our alliance. There is no forcing people to hold certain opinions, however if we do something that contradicts their views so wildly as it has yours, which forces them to do 1) and then you are no use to us. There's plenty more places you can go which will suite your choices and opinions.



My reasons were my own. You have no place in defining them or even guessing. Why I stayed 2 months in CoW is my business not yours. And not everyone in CoW think like you. I have to admit most do in this matter, or fool themselves that they do because of self-interests, but a considerable amount of people stays in CoW like I did because of friends and despite of you. In the same way, now I have reasons to leave, and so I will.


Quote:

3) If you think any organised, ambitious, alliance wants to hold onto members who don't share at least a basic way of common thinking, then you won't understand why your behaviour is so unacceptable.



Right. Lets expell every American who is against warring other countries from US! After all they don't share the basic common thinking about waging war (which I should say goes in line with their country interests) so popular in their country in the last few years. This line of thought is so naive...

Anyone who submits himself to these absurdity deserves your authoritarism. They are spineless slaves, who in a very pitiful way, submit to a spoiled kid in a game. How sad...

Quote:

So good luck finding something that suits you, and some real advice: you shouldn't believe blindly everything you've read about people.

Pretty sure that's many more responses than you're worth. Very Happy


The advice goes both ways. I didn't believe in something "told" to me. You did, sir. And hey, I couldn't care less about how much you think I am worth. What I can tell you is that I find extremelly pleasant to show everybody how naive, authoritarian and short sigthted you are, Peppy. So please continue bringing it on. You amuse me.

pxmars
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2007.05.16 00:49:00 - [690]
 

Gratz Bob your the man... But dont expect me to warp up and slap a wet one on you mug.Neutral


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