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blankseplocked some possible solutions to a few of EVE's biggest problems.
 
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WhiteDwarf
Caldari
Battlestars
Posted - 2004.01.01 17:53:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: WhiteDwarf on 01/01/2004 17:56:40
"If no one pod killed, what point would there be in clones?"

What does a pirate gain from podkilling someone without a bounty at gates? Satisfaction that you could blow up a defenseless pod?

You really want that frozen corpse, the destruction of his/her ship and loot gain is not enough?

Yes, senseless podkilling is indeed a style of play, and does reflect on the RL player.

This is why I'd like to see NPC empire & corp bounties placed on the heads of notorious podkillers. I want someone to continually be gunning for thier heads with the same vigor they seem to have by podkilling noobs & traders...

Jim Raynor
Caldari
Bad Kitty Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2004.01.01 17:58:00 - [62]
 

Destroys their implants and costs them more ISK. :)

Voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
We Are John Galt
Posted - 2004.01.01 17:59:00 - [63]
 

Quote:
I think if they PODKILL in 0.4-0.1 space they should get a greater sec hit, accompanied by a hefty bounty placed on thier heads by the "empire" who lays claim to that system.


Problem with this is they could get a friends alt and podkill them repeatedly, racking up bounty, then have thier friend podkill them and collect the bounty, this is profitable because clones are cheap.

Players with negative sec status's should have more expensive clones, Maybe clones should cost around 2x to 10x depending on how low thier sec status is, they chose a life of crime, so why should they have the same benifits as far as cloning as a law abiding citizen? 1-4 Mil ISK for a clone is peanuts to most players.

In addition to this, players should be able to fit stronger escape pods to thier ships, maybe even faster escape pods as well.

WhiteDwarf
Caldari
Battlestars
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:02:00 - [64]
 

"Destroys their implants and costs them more ISK. :)"

And this helps you how?

Face it, you enjoy the grief of others...

Even if in no way they ever damaged your EVE livelihood, you are out to destroy theirs...

I can't think of a better definition for griefer than that...

WhiteDwarf
Caldari
Battlestars
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:09:00 - [65]
 

"Problem with this is they could get a friends alt and podkill them repeatedly, racking up bounty, then have thier friend podkill them and collect the bounty, this is profitable because clones are cheap"

Yeah, that sounds bad...

Kinda why no one has a high bounty on thier heads now...

Jim Raynor
Caldari
Bad Kitty Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:11:00 - [66]
 

Quote:
"Destroys their implants and costs them more ISK. :)"

And this helps you how?

Face it, you enjoy the grief of others...

Even if in no way they ever damaged your EVE livelihood, you are out to destroy theirs...

I can't think of a better definition for griefer than that...



pod or be podded.

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:17:00 - [67]
 

Quote:
"Destroys their implants and costs them more ISK. :)"

And this helps you how?

Face it, you enjoy the grief of others...

Even if in no way they ever damaged your EVE livelihood, you are out to destroy theirs...

I can't think of a better definition for griefer than that...



No, that's the definition of the game.

This game is about PvP on all levels. You can work together with your corp towards a common goal and think you're not involved in PvP. But even mining potentially comes at the expense of someone else. The supply of ore you take instead of them. The demand you fill instead of them.

Podding someone for their implants and clone weakens their wallet. Nothing personal, just business.

You're the one taking it overboard and for that you get what you deserve.

WhiteDwarf
Caldari
Battlestars
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:19:00 - [68]
 

"pod or be podded"

You think that traders & mission runners are out to pod you? Those are the ones you must "pod or be podded?"

That's silly...

Podkilling is for corp wars and crimelords, not for the evryday pirates...

Common pirates should fear podkilling, they want to gain isk & modules, not draw the attention of bounty hunters. If they are after modules & isk monetary gains through tolling & ship destruction, they should have to show some restraint when it comes to pods, or fear retribution in a force which exponetially increases in destructive power the more they podkill.

If you want to be the most noted crimelord podkilling bastard in the game, fine, but there should be an increasing price to pay for such noteriety.

In corp wars, of course, you want to hurt your enemy any way you can, making them pay for clones & implants is certainly justified.

There is not enough of a price to pay for the pirates who view podkilling as part of the EVE pirating experience...

Negotiator
Coerce Inc
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:20:00 - [69]
 

Dwarf, if you pod people u set them back. The more isk ur enemy looses, the longer it will take him to get back and start shooting you again. Griefing is not the main idea behind podding, but its just a consequence of economical warfare.

WhiteDwarf
Caldari
Battlestars
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:22:00 - [70]
 

"Podding someone for their implants and clone weakens their wallet. Nothing personal, just business"

So setting back the traders & builders who may someday be able to supply you with that new module or ship is good buisness practice?

I'm glad you're not running the company I work for...

WhiteDwarf
Caldari
Battlestars
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:23:00 - [71]
 

"Dwarf, if you pod people u set them back. The more isk ur enemy looses, the longer it will take him to get back and start shooting you again. Griefing is not the main idea behind podding, but its just a consequence of economical warfare"

And everyone that passes through the gate you are camping in your ENEMY?

Jim Raynor
Caldari
Bad Kitty Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:25:00 - [72]
 

Quote:
"Podding someone for their implants and clone weakens their wallet. Nothing personal, just business"

So setting back the traders & builders who may someday be able to supply you with that new module or ship is good buisness practice?

I'm glad you're not running the company I work for...


You mean peoples alts?

Negotiator
Coerce Inc
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:26:00 - [73]
 

No, not everyone who passes through "the gate" gets podded either. You generalize too much, i dont camp gates bro...

WhiteDwarf
Caldari
Battlestars
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:30:00 - [74]
 

"You mean peoples alts?"

Yes, this may have been the case in the past, but we are on the cusp of quite diverse & much needed character specialization...

So on a go forward basis, I'd like to see more podkilling restraint by common thugs.

If you find that I am supplying goods to your sworn enemy, then by all means podkill me. But if I'm supplying goods to your allies, it just does not make any sense to set me back in such a manner...

WhiteDwarf
Caldari
Battlestars
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:31:00 - [75]
 

"No, not everyone who passes through "the gate" gets podded either. You generalize too much, i dont camp gates bro..."

I'm sure you would podkill me if you had the chance, eventhough I have no interest in killing you, but I play to build equipment that you someday may need me to sell you...

Orestes


ISD Interstellar Correspondents
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:32:00 - [76]
 

Keep it on-topic please lads!

Negotiator
Coerce Inc
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:33:00 - [77]
 

so here we find the next problem of self-suffiency. i have 2 accounts. i supply Nego with my other account, build stuff, research blueprints, whatever...What prevents EVERYONE else doing the same? 12 bucks?! Ur argument fails because i know my allies well and their alts, i know who not to shoot. Everyone that i dont know is on auto-KOS list.

WhiteDwarf
Caldari
Battlestars
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:34:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: WhiteDwarf on 01/01/2004 18:35:10
"Everyone that i dont know is on auto-KOS list"

What a wonderful way to play on online game...

Boy, I really enjoy playing with guys like you...

I'm done with this thread, don't want to be the one to kill it.

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:34:00 - [79]
 

Quote:
"Podding someone for their implants and clone weakens their wallet. Nothing personal, just business"

So setting back the traders & builders who may someday be able to supply you with that new module or ship is good buisness practice?

I'm glad you're not running the company I work for...


Yes. Means less competition for me. I'm diversified. Twisted Evil

And if I chose to do so, I'd gladly pay people to intentionally setback specific traders and builders. I'm also ebil Twisted Evil

Negotiator
Coerce Inc
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:38:00 - [80]
 

WhiteDwarf,its a role i play. I dont see anything wrong with it. I kill, and i promise you that most people wouldn't pass an opporunity to kill me. That said, its kinda hard to pod people anyway unless its splash damage from torpedoes, but then it realy doesnt matter if it is intentional or not.

Negotiator
Coerce Inc
Posted - 2004.01.01 18:38:00 - [81]
 

WhiteDwarf,its a role i play. I dont see anything wrong with it. I kill, and i promise you that most people wouldn't pass an opporunity to kill me. That said, its kinda hard to pod people anyway unless its splash damage from torpedoes, but then it realy doesnt matter if it is intentional or not.

Sara Kerrigan
Caldari
PAK
Posted - 2004.01.01 19:26:00 - [82]
 

Quote:
Solution - make insurance a lot lot cheaper - that way people can afford to lose their ships more and not have several months worth of gameplay ruined in less than a minute.



Lowering insurance would mean much less ISK a pirate could demand as a toll, and thus feed the need for not just destroying the ships, but podding the player for not cooperating.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2004.01.01 19:27:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 01/01/2004 19:31:23
Quote:
If its a mistake it was intended in the game system. There are vast swathes of 0.0 where you can do whatever you want without sec loss or interference. It was obviously intended by CCP that 0.0 would be the wild frontier where death and megaprofit rubbed shoulders.


All I want to do is to build a decent base somewhere out there... maybe get a nice little trading outpost going where we can sell all the 0.0 stuff to empire-people, ocassionally defending against pirates or planning a little raid on the nearby competitors.

I donīt think that pure profit should be the only incentive or reason to go try your luck in 0.0 space. The profit from supplying stuff to empire-space should be the reason IMHO and the lack of profit you have at the moment is the actual reason why nobody besides PvP-people and those in need of Mega bother to work in 0.0 space.
Lowering the profit in highsec might help on another level but IMHO the reason to go to 0.0 space should actually be the intention of supplying stuff you can never get in highsec space... not only making a profit.
There must be things in 0.0 you can never get unless you go there OR buy it from someone who lives out there.

The problem is, as I said, the fact that Shiva isnīt here yet. With the NPCs spawning like they do/will do and with the way players play you need to be able to build a base out there. You need to be able to live in 0.0 without stations so you can effectively make systems safe for your corporation.
Heavy NPC spawns wouldnīt be much of a problem when you can deploy sentry guns to help you kill them so your miners can work. Long traveltimes arenīt there when you have a hangar and maybe a factory to produce and store your ships in.

IMO EvE is, although one can only pilot one ship at a time, a pretty puristic RTS-game. It has a rich background, yes, but itīs still a RTS if you look at it closely. Now what is an RTS-game without a base from which you can operate? You name it...

I also think that one of the key problems is the fact that corporations and generally players work all over the universe and they have too much of an impact on the regions.
Blocking entire regions is way too easy. People should be limited more to constellations and solarsystems instead of regions, because IMHO you canīt have real trade without the local markets you get from corporations being limited to smaller parts of the universe.

So to sum it up I think that this game needs player owned structures asap. We need to be able to build something up in order to make a living out there in 0.0, where we automatically provide a pretty decent target for pirates to test their guns on and lose a few ships Smile
Castor needs to be finalized as fast as possible so Shiva can come, because IMO the fact that you can't build anything in this game is the source of a lot of the problems most of y'all are talking about.

Hakera
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2004.01.01 19:43:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Hakera on 01/01/2004 19:44:25
Quote:

Lowering insurance would mean much less ISK a pirate could demand as a toll, and thus feed the need for not just destroying the ships, but podding the player for not cooperating.



I think that would not happen - players would have more isk and also the inconvienience of replacing ships/modules/cargo would be enough to pay the toll for many. Insurance should not be profitable - but being able to cover the cost of replacing the ship at an affordable price is a must imo. That still leaves the modules and lost cargo and lost game time to contend with when you get podded.

Sara Kerrigan
Caldari
PAK
Posted - 2004.01.01 20:18:00 - [85]
 

Quote:
I think that would not happen - players would have more isk and also the inconvienience of replacing ships/modules/cargo would be enough to pay the toll for many. Insurance should not be profitable - but being able to cover the cost of replacing the ship at an affordable price is a must imo. That still leaves the modules and lost cargo and lost game time to contend with when you get podded.


I'm speaking from the pirate's perspective. The victim may have a lot of ISK, but we can not charge more than what they would lose on insurance if the ship was to be destroyed. If we did, they'd laugh and self destruct. If the amount of loss decreases, the amount we can ransom a ship for decreases, and at some point it will just be more profitable and less time/risk to blow up the ship right away.

CCP Pann

Posted - 2004.01.01 21:30:00 - [86]
 

Great thread. I've pointed it out to the devs and asked them to have a look. Please try to keep the extra chatter down to a minimum and condense your ideas so there's a better chance of them having time to read as much as they can.

Hakera
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2004.01.01 21:55:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Hakera on 02/01/2004 06:48:06
Sara,

Yes there does need to be a 'middle ground' between risk/loss where the loss of your ship is not crippling but enough for you to consider tolling as an option.

On Empire Space and 0.0 Space

The idea to shrink empire space to just 0.5-1.0 systems, then rescale those systems between 0.1-1.0. Most of the empire space is unoccupied and vacant for like 80% of the time. It does make sense.

Within this space - we have concord only in 0.5+ but faction police in all empire space which respond by standings or agression to those with positive standings along with a graded by sec lvl response.

The new 0.0 space needs lots of links to make the space accessbile bia lots of routes that cannot be easily blockaded at all. The ore needs to be well distrubuted.

The spawns do need tweaking to make a small party of 2-3 ships be able to manage here against the npc's so that small corps or gangs can operate in 0.0 space successfully.


The Highway Stickiness!

One idea I thought of was changing the highway systems to void small systems with just gates in and little else. This might prevent so much lag on these systems. Also new links into the 0.0 space which links in about say 5-10 jumps from the outer regions would be cool.


Bounty Hunters & assassins

Both need services of sorts to aid in locating their prey - maybe concord passes to engage at will the target is a wanted felon.

Interbus

needs to transport repackaged ships/items within empire space (0.1+) only or players charged by distance/sec lvl and mass.


for criminals a detection % needs to be used along with interbus standing if they are a wanted criminal - if they are 'detected' they get an 'arrested' mail and unable to use the interbus service and maybe fined.

or an alterntaive smuggling serive by pirate cartels for criminals?

Just my 2 cents! Cool

Negotiator
Coerce Inc
Posted - 2004.01.01 22:03:00 - [88]
 

We need criminal tags for corporations.

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2004.01.01 22:28:00 - [89]
 

Quote:
All I want to do is to build a decent base somewhere out there... maybe get a nice little trading outpost going where we can sell all the 0.0 stuff to empire-people, ocassionally defending against pirates or planning a little raid on the nearby competitors.

I donīt think that pure profit should be the only incentive or reason to go try your luck in 0.0 space. The profit from supplying stuff to empire-space should be the reason IMHO and the lack of profit you have at the moment is the actual reason why nobody besides PvP-people and those in need of Mega bother to work in 0.0 space.
Lowering the profit in highsec might help on another level but IMHO the reason to go to 0.0 space should actually be the intention of supplying stuff you can never get in highsec space... not only making a profit.
There must be things in 0.0 you can never get unless you go there OR buy it from someone who lives out there.



My objections came in the moment I saw people strengthening the perception that Empire/Non-Empire are separate entities. I don't call this game Disneyland Meets Afghanistan (Cold War era)™ without purpose.

There is no middle ground in this game. When it was obvious there was no middle ground in npc pirate hunting, people flipped. If there was no middle ground in the market, where a small corp could earn an income, people would flip. But the mentality is that there should be no middle ground for pirates. You're either an ore thief, which we all know is nothing more than a mild annoyance. Or you're supposed to be m0o with a conscience Rolling Eyes

Zarthan
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Posted - 2004.01.01 22:49:00 - [90]
 

Quote:
We need criminal tags for corporations.


Well technically you can do that with standings. If you mean that a coporation with members who pod somone would be labeled pirates or criminals, then that would be bad. I only say this because you'd get somone mad at corp A who resides in corp B. the person in corp B uses an alt to pod somone while in corp A, thusly unfairly making corp A bad. Just a thought, only other idea I can see you hinting at is something like the red bars you used to get next to players ships.


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