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SiJira
Posted - 2007.04.26 17:27:00 - [1]
 

taxes in corps will be useless when the bounties are removed

a good corp will still get their members to donate their part to keep corp running because of the great teamwork it provides

though it is a lot easier though when its automatic so will something be done?

Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
Posted - 2007.04.26 17:33:00 - [2]
 

I'm really curious as what they intend to use as an isk source if they nerf bounties. It would seem unless they add something, the only sources would be selling stuff to NPCs and insurance payouts. CCP really needs to do a lot more in-depth explanation, with examples, of how this is all going to work.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2007.04.26 17:48:00 - [3]
 

No bounties on factional missions (most new missions), reduced bounties from fewer ships on "fixed" missions, drops nerfed (BSs *still* drop CIVILIAN modules, how hard is it to get the loot tables right) and Salvage prices dropping.

Welcome to going broke in Empire Wink

Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.04.26 17:55:00 - [4]
 

Welcome to yet another issue that plagues the Drone Regions!

The only way we can get taxes off of Ratters is by having a refinery outpost, and hope that the Ratters are not willing to fly a hauler full of loot to empire to refine. Coupled with the use of Carriers/Dreads to haul, we are certain that we are losing tax revenue.

CCP, we need the abiltity to tax ALL income a player receives! For example, Traders never pay taxes on market income. True, if you own a station you can set a tax rate, but not many corporations in EVE own a station. Alliances do, but corporations cannot fairly distribute the tax burden across the entire member base.

Kahrek Laume
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.04.26 18:12:00 - [5]
 

You know i have always found that weird, the prudction / trade moguls that make 10X the ISK of most mission runners out there do not get to pay taxes on most of their revenue, those are the people supposed to be helping the corp with the wallet aspect of thigns but really the only help they give is that which they donate.

I would be curious to see who generates how much for the corp wallet (Thru donations / taxes / whatever) and compare mission runners, ratters, miners and industrialists just to see how it all pans out.

Simple solution, tax everything and anything (Except direct player to player ISK donations i guess)

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.04.26 21:17:00 - [6]
 

Probably the better solution is to organize corp wide complex/exploration sites runs or large missions (level 5-6), rising temporanly the tax to max or corporation run mining missions (where it will be possible, so unless something change, not in the drone regions Mad).

The minerals will be used to build modules/ships to sell to corp members.

A closed economy, it seem it can work. The limit will be detecting who costantly avoid the corp activities.


Soporo
Caldari
Posted - 2007.04.26 22:03:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Soporo on 26/04/2007 22:00:26
Quote:
I'm really curious as what they intend to use as an isk source if they nerf bounties.


They claimed that drops and mods will be the reward.
In other words, LP bank/store.
After seeing 2 or 3 gdamn missioning rewards nerfs in 6 months, I am not very hopefull about it. It WILL mean less pew pew for me unless they do something miraculous.

Maybe I am being too pessimistic. *shrugs*

sharkyballs
Amarr
Dkiller Delta Force Corp.
CORPVS DELICTI
Posted - 2007.04.26 22:11:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: sharkyballs on 26/04/2007 22:12:30
could someone please link the thread or blog that talks about this happening? i don't recall seeing it or being able to find it : (

edit:spelling

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2007.04.26 22:13:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Soporo
Edited by: Soporo on 26/04/2007 22:00:26
Quote:
I'm really curious as what they intend to use as an isk source if they nerf bounties.


They claimed that drops and mods will be the reward.
In other words, LP bank/store.
After seeing 2 or 3 gdamn missioning rewards nerfs in 6 months, I am not very hopefull about it. It WILL mean less pew pew for me unless they do something miraculous.

Maybe I am being too pessimistic. *shrugs*


And have every reason to be. I'm pulling less in ISK from mission loot now running level 3 and 4 missions that I was 6 months ago running WC1 and level 2s. Combined with the (still) broken loot tables that drop civilian and frigate modules in Battleship wrecks, the only reason to run anything over level 2s are for the salvage and the bounties. Remove the bounties and I definately won't be running any level 4s, just not worth it, I can crank out level 3s fast enough to make more doing them.

I don't think CCP gets the hint that reduced ISK means less PvPing and fewer people going into LowSec (which they supposedly want to bolster). If I'm going to lose a ship to PC Rats, better give me enough to make up for it or I won't budge from Empire Rolling Eyes

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2007.04.26 22:15:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: sharkyballs
could someone please like the thread or blog that talks about this happening? i don't recall seeing it or being able to find it : (


Dev Blog

Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
Posted - 2007.04.26 23:15:00 - [11]
 

CCP really needs to explain very clearly if this will only affect new missions and/or 'upgraded level 4', or missions in general, or all NPCs everywhere, or what, so far everything theyve said is pretty vague. If all theyre saying is new missions will drop faction mods instead of boatloads of isk I think thats fine, it just means theyll join Team 0.0 in exchanging faction gear for isk with Team Mission *****. But if theye nerfing bounties across the board this could have some seriously bad consequences since there will be next to no new isk, and markets will shut down as people build everything in-house. Anyway I reserve my judgement on this until a) it gets imlpemented or b) specific info is made available.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2007.04.26 23:58:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Del Narveux
CCP really needs to explain very clearly if this will only affect new missions and/or 'upgraded level 4', or missions in general, or all NPCs everywhere, or what, so far everything theyve said is pretty vague. If all theyre saying is new missions will drop faction mods instead of boatloads of isk I think thats fine, it just means theyll join Team 0.0 in exchanging faction gear for isk with Team Mission *****. But if theye nerfing bounties across the board this could have some seriously bad consequences since there will be next to no new isk, and markets will shut down as people build everything in-house. Anyway I reserve my judgement on this until a) it gets imlpemented or b) specific info is made available.


Count on no ISK for any of the newer, faction missions. So far what we have is:

1) Newer Faction missions that started showing up post-revelations have NO bounties.
2) On average faction missions in the game at this time have LESS loot than standard missions.
3) Already broken drop tables that haven't been fixed (frigate and civilian loot off BB spawns. Frigate off BC spawns).
4) Decrease in loot in ALL missions since Revelations
5) Further decreases in loot with each patch since Revelations.

So, all the newer faction missions will have no bounties in them. In addition, all the faction missions that are currently in the system have less loot (ISK-wise) than the missions prior to Revelations. Plus we are seeing a decrease in loot for all missions, faction or not. Combine the above with the "good" missions all going to be in LowSec and you have a very high chance of ship loss, or decreased rewards. And less cash to replace those ships.

So, you might be able to get your faction items by selling loyalty points and might find one or two in a mission, but no one else will have any ISK to buy them. Plus you "fail" the mission and lose a ship you are going to be less likely to be able to replace it, and have to forfit the mission lowering your standings and making that special stuff harder to get as you lose loyalty.

The only thing this will do is make ISK less prevelant, meaning more ISK sellers and macros. Stupid move. If you can't make enough money playing the game then you have to get it somehow. Casual players aren't going to be able to afford ship losses, hence will either not run the better missions and not progress, buy their ISK or quit. Pirates are going to see an even further drying up of targets as they run low of resources and won't risk the ships. PvPers are going to have to mine for their own parts.

I know its somewhat exagerated, but everything the Devs have said I've seen in other games and can see where this is heading. And it doesn't work.

syphurous
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2007.04.27 00:22:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: syphurous on 27/04/2007 00:20:44
Quote:
The majority of these new missions will not have ISK bounties on NPCs, they will be Loyalty Point focused or Mini-Profession based. You earn your ISK by selling to other pilots. We're very aware of ISK inflation and this is a step in preventing that.


For the sake of those who believe the sky is falling I have a Question, where does it say the missions that currently give bounties will no longer give them ?

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2007.04.27 00:39:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: syphurous
Edited by: syphurous on 27/04/2007 00:20:44
Quote:
The majority of these new missions will not have ISK bounties on NPCs, they will be Loyalty Point focused or Mini-Profession based. You earn your ISK by selling to other pilots. We're very aware of ISK inflation and this is a step in preventing that.


For the sake of those who believe the sky is falling I have a Question, where does it say the missions that currently give bounties will no longer give them ?

It doesn't. But every patch for the last 6 months has decreased the amount of loot you get. The level 3s I'm running right now are dropping less loot, ISK-wise, than the level 1s when I first started.

Meaning that everything is being slowly "adjusted", and eventually the loot will be non-existant. In some missions, especially level 2-3 faction ones, it already is mostly gone.

Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.04.27 00:39:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 27/04/2007 00:35:41
Maybe it's time you moved into non-dronespace 0.0? :d

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2007.04.27 00:59:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 27/04/2007 00:35:41
Maybe it's time you moved into non-dronespace 0.0? :d


Sure. Show me where I can play for 1/2 hour to 2 hours a night, soloing or with a couple of friends who may/may not be on tonight, and not have to worry about getting shot at by PvP-fitted ships and characters that are older than I am and out-number me 5-50 to 1. Cool

Over 3/4 of the EvE universe lives/plays/works in High Sec. Telling everyone to just "move" isn't the answer. If we wanted to be in 0.0 or LowSec we would already be there, wouldn't we?

MrBadidea
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.04.27 01:11:00 - [17]
 

So these new faction missions that got added; the rats don't happen to drop tags do they?

Cause you know, those tags are actually worth quite a lot... unless that got nerfed and I just haven't noticed as well Shocked

syphurous
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2007.04.27 01:12:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
It doesn't. But every patch for the last 6 months has decreased the amount of loot you get. The level 3s I'm running right now are dropping less loot, ISK-wise, than the level 1s when I first started.

Meaning that everything is being slowly "adjusted", and eventually the loot will be non-existant. In some missions, especially level 2-3 faction ones, it already is mostly gone.


I get salvage from missions now, I also get more decent named items, I have even picked up items worth 20 mil in a lvl2. If there's less loot its because the salvage from the missions is worth more than the loot was. I've fitted a ship for the purposes of salvaging ( 80 mil worth of Destroyer :S ) and can run the salvaging and looting faster than the mission which everyone seems to complain takes too long.

The loot has been mostly worthless the entire time I've played and only on a rare occasssion have I picked up anything useful, so less loot means I can actually clear a lvl3 in salvaging run and not waste time on multiple trips.

Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.04.27 01:16:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby

Sure. Show me where I can play for 1/2 hour to 2 hours a night, soloing or with a couple of friends who may/may not be on tonight, and not have to worry about getting shot at by PvP-fitted ships and characters that are older than I am and out-number me 5-50 to 1. Cool

Over 3/4 of the EvE universe lives/plays/works in High Sec.


You said it yourself, 3/4 of EVE lives in hi-sec, 0.0 is pretty empty, unless you go to the central areas of operation in 0.0.

Da Thing
New Light
KnightRaven Alliance
Posted - 2007.04.27 01:28:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Originally by: syphurous
Edited by: syphurous on 27/04/2007 00:20:44
Quote:
The majority of these new missions will not have ISK bounties on NPCs, they will be Loyalty Point focused or Mini-Profession based. You earn your ISK by selling to other pilots. We're very aware of ISK inflation and this is a step in preventing that.


For the sake of those who believe the sky is falling I have a Question, where does it say the missions that currently give bounties will no longer give them ?

It doesn't. But every patch for the last 6 months has decreased the amount of loot you get. The level 3s I'm running right now are dropping less loot, ISK-wise, than the level 1s when I first started.

Meaning that everything is being slowly "adjusted", and eventually the loot will be non-existant. In some missions, especially level 2-3 faction ones, it already is mostly gone.


The blog if you read is talking about lvl 5-10 missions about the bounties. There by looks of it will have no change in lvl 1-3 missions, some lvl 4 missions will be moved to lvl 5.

Also in faction missions for all lvls the isk in the tags (not the mod/amo) that you sell to the npcs, and the reward. I personally make more isk off of faction missions then normal ones.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2007.04.27 01:42:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 27/04/2007 01:40:07
Evil or Very Mad

I hate these forums, ate a prefectly good novel.

Since I'm not re-typing it, please answer one question then:

Where do I off-load the Matari and Gal tags from those missions? No one I've asked or know has any idea and the threads I've seen haven't answered it.

After I get rid of the 1500 or so I have cluttering my hanger I might change my mind.

SiJira
Posted - 2007.04.27 01:50:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: syphurous
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
It doesn't. But every patch for the last 6 months has decreased the amount of loot you get. The level 3s I'm running right now are dropping less loot, ISK-wise, than the level 1s when I first started.

Meaning that everything is being slowly "adjusted", and eventually the loot will be non-existant. In some missions, especially level 2-3 faction ones, it already is mostly gone.


I get salvage from missions now, I also get more decent named items, I have even picked up items worth 20 mil in a lvl2. If there's less loot its because the salvage from the missions is worth more than the loot was. I've fitted a ship for the purposes of salvaging ( 80 mil worth of Destroyer :S ) and can run the salvaging and looting faster than the mission which everyone seems to complain takes too long.

The loot has been mostly worthless the entire time I've played and only on a rare occasssion have I picked up anything useful, so less loot means I can actually clear a lvl3 in salvaging run and not waste time on multiple trips.


salvage def makes a lot of cash if people bother

Da Thing
New Light
KnightRaven Alliance
Posted - 2007.04.27 02:02:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Da Thing on 27/04/2007 02:00:04
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 27/04/2007 01:40:07
Evil or Very Mad

I hate these forums, ate a prefectly good novel.

Since I'm not re-typing it, please answer one question then:

Where do I off-load the Matari and Gal tags from those missions? No one I've asked or know has any idea and the threads I've seen haven't answered it.

After I get rid of the 1500 or so I have cluttering my hanger I might change my mind.


Look at the market they are mostly bought by npc's in navy stations that does not like that faction, or you could always go to Jita and sell them there since there is good buy orders there for tags.

Edit: Spelling

Vactet
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2007.04.27 03:19:00 - [24]
 

Selling the tags can be difficult...as you must be very careful.
Heres my suggestion on how to do it..
Setup 1: If you are in caldari space doing caldari missions and getting gallente/minmatar tags..no worries. Go sell em somewhere.
Setup 2: If you are like me and are running Caldari missions in Minmatar/gallente space...then you might have a problem. Those tags are contraband big time. Anything highsec and your gonna have a problem. So..first..use an alt with a 0ISK bank account cause its ghey when they charge you for the contraband. Second, use a fast ship (NOT a shuttle.) A quick warping executioner works well. Also try to stick to lowsec cause running thru enemy highsec with tags..bad.

I ran a bunch of gallente tags to caldari space, thru minmatar space lastnight.
i had about 70M3 of tags. Had to stick to lowsec most of the time cept one system i had to go thru that was high sec. Oh when they realised they couldnt charge me for it, they were after me. Luckily i beat them to the punch and got outa there before they got me.


The other issue is that tags can also be saved up. One of my corpmates got an offer that included about 3K (# not M3) and he'd get 4Bill Isk in return. He had the tags..yeh, lucky him -.-

Nalar Marnith
Minmatar
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.04.27 03:32:00 - [25]
 

Personally I think bounties are a good clean way of gettings iskies ratting/missioning. It's reasonably consistent without being excessive.

The problem is trying to balance all this stuff between people who want to farm it, people who do it to finance their game style, and people who do it for fun. Either way, someone isn't going to be happy...

Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
Posted - 2007.04.27 03:52:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: syphurous
For the sake of those who believe the sky is falling I have a Question, where does it say the missions that currently give bounties will no longer give them ?


Nowhere explicitly, but they also dont say they *wont* do this. The problem is since CCP has also said they intend to revisit a lot of missions during the ongoing Need for Speed program, theres really no way to know if they mean 'new' as in original content added with Revs, or 'new' as in fixed for N4S. Hence the need for very explicit information, using small words, saying exactly what they will and will not be nerfing, to put to rest all the omgomgomgomgdoom posts.

Originally by: MrBadidea
So these new faction missions that got added; the rats don't happen to drop tags do they?

Cause you know, those tags are actually worth quite a lot... unless that got nerfed and I just haven't noticed as well


One would assume that this would be included in any sort of bounty nerf, since its essentially the same thing (killing stuff generates new isk). But who knows...

sableye
principle of motion
Posted - 2007.04.27 05:56:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Vactet
Selling the tags can be difficult...as you must be very careful.
Heres my suggestion on how to do it..
Setup 1: If you are in caldari space doing caldari missions and getting gallente/minmatar tags..no worries. Go sell em somewhere.
Setup 2: If you are like me and are running Caldari missions in Minmatar/gallente space...then you might have a problem. Those tags are contraband big time. Anything highsec and your gonna have a problem. So..first..use an alt with a 0ISK bank account cause its ghey when they charge you for the contraband. Second, use a fast ship (NOT a shuttle.) A quick warping executioner works well. Also try to stick to lowsec cause running thru enemy highsec with tags..bad.

I ran a bunch of gallente tags to caldari space, thru minmatar space lastnight.
i had about 70M3 of tags. Had to stick to lowsec most of the time cept one system i had to go thru that was high sec. Oh when they realised they couldnt charge me for it, they were after me. Luckily i beat them to the punch and got outa there before they got me.


The other issue is that tags can also be saved up. One of my corpmates got an offer that included about 3K (# not M3) and he'd get 4Bill Isk in return. He had the tags..yeh, lucky him -.-



hmmmmmm tags are'nt technicly contraband only reasons they say they are is to stop sellorders in there home regions but there is zero penalties to carrying them through high security and custums won'nt shoot you down, unless soemthinghas changed since I last looked which I doubt.

Alyth
Gallente
Posted - 2007.04.27 06:45:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: sableye



hmmmmmm tags are'nt technicly contraband only reasons they say they are is to stop sellorders in there home regions but there is zero penalties to carrying them through high security and custums won'nt shoot you down, unless soemthinghas changed since I last looked which I doubt.


So killing a factions navy's pilots in their space, taking dogtags off the bodies and then trying to get them out wouldn't be considered contraband? Check tags again. Gallente tags and Minmatar tags are illegal in both factions space. Same with Amarr and Caldari. You take a standing hit and a fine and if the customs officials are there they won't be very happy to see you.

sableye
principle of motion
Posted - 2007.04.27 07:16:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Alyth
Originally by: sableye



hmmmmmm tags are'nt technicly contraband only reasons they say they are is to stop sellorders in there home regions but there is zero penalties to carrying them through high security and custums won'nt shoot you down, unless soemthinghas changed since I last looked which I doubt.


So killing a factions navy's pilots in their space, taking dogtags off the bodies and then trying to get them out wouldn't be considered contraband? Check tags again. Gallente tags and Minmatar tags are illegal in both factions space. Same with Amarr and Caldari. You take a standing hit and a fine and if the customs officials are there they won't be very happy to see you.



ok at your request I checked again and as I thought they still were'nt illegal to carry.

SwitchBl4d3
Heretic Army
Posted - 2007.04.27 08:15:00 - [30]
 

when eve frist started everyone mined and bountys were at highest 30k.

focus attention to the word mine.

now nobody mines and theres lag due to too many asteroids..

mine a system and improve lag in eve programme will be like the global warming programme for the earth..

CCP cant get rid of the lag so there making us do it

scandal


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