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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.04.24 18:21:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/04/2007 18:21:54
Originally by: Benco97
I love the way you all think that when Microsoft falls all the people making different versions of Linux and other OSs will hold hands and sing.
It'll happen again and the hate will turn towards the most successful and the cycle will continue.
This "OMG I must get microsoft out of my house" nonsense is ridiculous.
Oh but the other OSs are nothing like Microsoft, they don't want money, they want world peace... yeah.. right..

I know you're a Microsoft shill, but such an argument is pure nonsense when talking about an open source operating system.

That kind of bullcrap is just what Microsoft wants you to believe. Its called Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD). It was pioneered by IBM in the pre-Microsoft days, and now Microsoft is king of it.

With an open source operating system, anyone can choose to do what they want and still be perfectly compatible with other open source operating systems. That is not possible with a proprietary operating system like Windows; in fact, it is you intentional by Microsoft; they don't want you using their competitor's products, so they use their monopoly to lock you out of them. This is why they are being fined billions of dollars a year in Europe.

I'll give you a direct example, though not operating system-related. If I want to open an OpenDocument file with my own program, its really easy: its XML, and the specification is entirely public. If I want to open a Word Document, I have to spend months reverse engineering the format and praying. Neutral

Benco97
Gallente
Terraprobe Dynamics
Posted - 2007.04.24 18:27:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Benco97 on 24/04/2007 18:26:03
Where does the money go?
After Microsoft falls where does the money go?
By which I mean, what OS will make the most sales?
They'll be the new enemy.
THAT has nothing to do with OSs, it's humans. They always want more money and the people with the most money are the enemy.

I dont' want to argue with you DS, you're a great guy and smart, very smart. You know more about both windows and linux than I know about windows, i'm just saying, irrespective of who's at the top there will be hate and this cycle will not stop until there ISN'T anyone at the top, unfortunately there will always be the most popular or the leader.

Spy4Hire
Posted - 2007.04.24 18:27:00 - [63]
 

Hmm, DX10 coming to XP.... Yay! :)
DX10's design intention purely to force current XP users to Vista... Booo. Typical MS business plan.

Glad I've never paid for a MS product since DOS 6.22 *LOL* They don't deserve my ISK, and their product still runs fine without MS getting a cent.

4rc4ng3L
Gallente
C R Y O
Posted - 2007.04.24 18:31:00 - [64]
 

It annoys me having to listen to you all *****ing about Vista.

Why do they restrict DX10 to Vista, cos it makes perfect business sense to do so. Microsoft are still a company that needs to turn a profit. If any of you 'mature' people posting ran the company you would do the exact same in order to keep your company alive.

Then, you come on bithing about how your being made get Vista. Over reacting anyone!
Not a single person is forcing you to get Vista. DX10 will be ported to XP, thats a given. So then your left with no other reason to come on here moaning bar the fact that they are not making it the way YOU want. So if you dont want it....just dont get it.

Grow up girls.....

p.s. No i dont work for microsoft

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.04.24 18:43:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: 4rc4ng3L
It annoys me having to listen to you all *****ing about Vista.

Why do they restrict DX10 to Vista, cos it makes perfect business sense to do so. Microsoft are still a company that needs to turn a profit.


"Turning a profit" is not synonymous with "producing crappy products" and "farking over your customers."

Microsoft is by definition an abusive monopoly because they can successfully sell products that are anti-consumer. If they allowed valid competitors, Microsoft would not exist.

4rc4ng3L
Gallente
C R Y O
Posted - 2007.04.24 18:46:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 24/04/2007 18:52:00

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L
It annoys me having to listen to you all *****ing about Vista.

Why do they restrict DX10 to Vista, cos it makes perfect business sense to do so. Microsoft are still a company that needs to turn a profit.


"Turning a profit" is not synonymous with "producing crappy products" and "farking over your customers."

Microsoft is by definition an abusive monopoly because they can successfully sell products that are anti-consumer. If they allowed valid competitors, Microsoft would not exist.


Regardless.... they are an intelligent company that knows its market better than anyone else.
They have no respect for their customers, they care about the survival of the company above all else.
They are.... a successful business!

Im not defending the company or its products, im defending their stratagy.

oDDiTy V2
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.04.24 18:51:00 - [67]
 

XP works just fine for me, and it sounds promising that DX10 will be ported to XP.

What I dislike about the whole Microsoft vs. Open Source argument is the mentality that seems to come along with a lot of the people who are using Linux (or whatever open source OS you're using) in that they seem to think they are sticking it to the man or whatever by using an open source system. That makes me laugh.

Personally I'd take Vista over any *nix OS any day, but thats mostly a matter of preference.

Ticondrius
United Federation Starfleet
Saints Amongst Sinners
Posted - 2007.04.24 18:57:00 - [68]
 

I'm dreeeeeaming of an OpenGL EVEning...just like the ones we always wanted!

OPEN SOURCE APIs CCP! Is it THAT hard?!?!

OpenGL
OpenAL
SDL
Need I go on...? Not using them is the only reason they're not advancing like they should have, forcing us to fork over tons of moeny to Microsoft to keep feeding us crap. I mean, GOOD LORD, $350 for Vista Home Premium? And I used to complain about $89 for the UPGRADE versions of Win98.

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.04.24 19:06:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: oDDiTy V2
What I dislike about the whole Microsoft vs. Open Source argument is the mentality that seems to come along with a lot of the people who are using Linux (or whatever open source OS you're using) in that they seem to think they are sticking it to the man or whatever by using an open source system. That makes me laugh.

How is someone not sticking it to Microsoft by refusing to pay for their bloated piece of crap?

Your logic is... weird Laughing

oDDiTy V2
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.04.24 19:21:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: oDDiTy V2
What I dislike about the whole Microsoft vs. Open Source argument is the mentality that seems to come along with a lot of the people who are using Linux (or whatever open source OS you're using) in that they seem to think they are sticking it to the man or whatever by using an open source system. That makes me laugh.

How is someone not sticking it to Microsoft by refusing to pay for their bloated piece of crap?

Your logic is... weird Laughing


My logic involves twisted combinations of alpha helices, fairies, and assorted pieces of chewed bubblegum. It should not be questioned.

Flash Landsraad
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.04.24 19:36:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Flash Landsraad on 24/04/2007 19:33:18
Originally by: Frezik
We don't owe Microsoft anything for this. We've already given them too much, IMHO. If Microsoft hadn't helped bring the PC into everyone's home, somebody else would have. There were a lot of players trying to do the same thing from the '80s and into the '90s, and most of them would have done a better job than Microsoft if they had the chance. Both DOS and early Windows were laughably inferior to similar packages of the time. But the deals Microsoft (such as with IBM) as well as solid marketing put them up at the "best" solution in the minds of customers, regardless of technical merits.


In that case Microsoft beat the competition and got to the top, they have stayed there because no other company has tried hard enough to knock them off. If some people's software is so much better at certain things that MS's version then why don't they get off their backsides and create something that can rivial Windows in the mainstream market? Why don't these companies join together to make a joint product? Simple, because they either a, don't want to share profits or b, because they think businesses are evil in the case of community designers. MAC OS whilst not being as popular as Windows certainly has not failed and is still going strong.

As for DOS and early version os Windows being laughable compared to equivalents at the time, Microsoft won through a better business sense. Marketting 101: What do you do if your product is inferior to someone elses? Answer: Setup incentives and offer business deals to other major companies offering sister services in the same area. In this case offer deals with IBM to get your product widely used even if it is inferior. The other companies have no one to blame but themselves for lazily expecting their products to do better simply because they were better in a technical aspect.

Originally by: Frezik
I'd love to live a Microsoft-free existence. I already rely significantly less on Microsoft than I did two years ago. But I only got here by conscious effort that most people are not wiling to make, and I still can't rid Microsoft from my house completely.


This is precisely the point. The average user does not make a concious effort, they pick the easiest solution. No other company is ever going to rival Microsoft if it does not stop expecting the consumer base to start making informed decisions between equivalent software pieces. Probably 90% of the consumer base don't even know the difference between Windows and something like Linux and it is ludicrous to expect them to be aware of this.

Originally by: Frezik
In short, your statements may have merit if we weren't forced to use Microsoft by many outside factors. The fact is that we are, so we are justified in complaining even while using their products.


How are you forced to? You just said that for every microsoft function there is another program that does the same.

Originally by: Dark Shikari
I'll give you a direct example, though not operating system-related. If I want to open an OpenDocument file with my own program, its really easy: its XML, and the specification is entirely public. If I want to open a Word Document, I have to spend months reverse engineering the format and praying. Neutral


It is called protecting your business and ensuring customer 'loyalty'. I would do exactly the same in MS's shoes and so I am sure would you. The difference is that you are looking at it from the consumer perspective rather than the providing perspective. I personally don't think one should complain about something they would do given the same situation.

Originally by: Dark Shikari
It is not easy to unseat a massive abusive cartel.


I hardly think you can call a single corporation a cartel, and if you were refering to Dell in this word as well as microsoft for preinstalling it's products; you just said that Dell are going to start offering Ubuntu and Linus as OS options?

Frezik
Basically Outdated Stereo Equiptment
Posted - 2007.04.24 19:41:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Benco97
Edited by: Benco97 on 24/04/2007 18:26:03
Where does the money go?
After Microsoft falls where does the money go?
By which I mean, what OS will make the most sales?
They'll be the new enemy.
THAT has nothing to do with OSs, it's humans. They always want more money and the people with the most money are the enemy.


In the case of operating systems, there are rational reasons to hate the largest for no other reason than the fact that they are the largest. In terms of security, the largest will always get hit hard by malware, no matter how good the programmers behind the OS try to make it secure. If the world runs three different operating systems that work very differently and have roughly even market share, then the job of the malware writer becomes much, much harder.

The top flaw in Windows security, therefore, is the one that Microsoft absolutely refuses to fix, because their business is based on that flaw's existence.

Originally by: 4rc4ng3L
Not a single person is forcing you to get Vista. DX10 will be ported to XP, thats a given.


DX10 is hardly the only reason. We'll be forced to get Vista eventually because:

1) Two-bit OEM manufacturers (who most people get their computers from) will only sell computers with the latest version of Windows
2) Software vendors will stop supporting older versions
3) Security updates will stop being made to older versions

The result being that any computer used for general home computing tasks must have Vista on it. This has been the way of things for every new version of Windows since at least 3.0, and I'm a little surprised that some people still don't realize it. The only exception was ME, and that only because Microsoft screwed it up so bad that even the hardcore Microsoft fans didn't like it.

I am hopeful that the recent announcement by Dell that they will continue selling XP shows that #1 won't happen this time around, and #2 and #3 will be short-circuited as a result.

Frezik
Basically Outdated Stereo Equiptment
Posted - 2007.04.24 20:05:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Flash Landsraad
In that case Microsoft beat the competition and got to the top, they have stayed there because no other company has tried hard enough to knock them off. If some people's software is so much better at certain things that MS's version then why don't they get off their backsides and create something that can rivial Windows in the mainstream market? Why don't these companies join together to make a joint product?


This might have worked in the early '90s, when the Microsoft monopoly was still weak and the market was much smaller. Right now, all competitors have to deal with the fact that 90% of the software titles on retail shelves is for Windows, and 90% of the OEM computers on retail shelves run Windows. This is not a position which can change overnight. It will take years, and even then, legacy programs will still hang on (people still have to run COBOL, after all).

So even if a competitor was technically superior and had better marketing, Microsoft is still in a very entrenched position.

Quote:
As for DOS and early version os Windows being laughable compared to equivalents at the time, Microsoft won through a better business sense. Marketting 101 . . .


That's what I said. Microsoft won through marketing and backroom deals which were consumer-hostile. If Microsoft hadn't existed, then the OS market may still have tended tward a monopoly, but I think that OS would have been chosen by the market on technical merits. I could have lived with that a lot easier.

But why do people choose to defend Microsoft for the above?

Quote:
Originally by: Frezik
I'd love to live a Microsoft-free existence. I already rely significantly less on Microsoft than I did two years ago. But I only got here by conscious effort that most people are not wiling to make, and I still can't rid Microsoft from my house completely.


This is precisely the point. The average user does not make a concious effort, they pick the easiest solution. No other company is ever going to rival Microsoft if it does not stop expecting the consumer base to start making informed decisions between equivalent software pieces. Probably 90% of the consumer base don't even know the difference between Windows and something like Linux and it is ludicrous to expect them to be aware of this.


This essentially means that the market has failed in this case. One can no longer say "that's just the way the market works", because it's actually a case where the market has been broken. Like-minded statements, such as "Microsoft's only job is to protect their business, and we shouldn't fault them for that", are also bunk, because such statements have an underlieing assumption that capitalism will work where it has actually failed.

Quote:
Originally by: Frezik
In short, your statements may have merit if we weren't forced to use Microsoft by many outside factors. The fact is that we are, so we are justified in complaining even while using their products.


How are you forced to? You just said that for every microsoft function there is another program that does the same.


As to my specific case, I'm a contractor for web programming, and I have to turn in my time using a program that only works on Windows. Also, there are occasionally problems with web pages that only occur in IE, which means I have to look at it in IE for testing. Most days, I never have a work-related purpose for touching anything from Microsoft, but exceptions will happen, and I have to have a Windows box on hand to deal with them.

Dao 2
Thenta-Makur
Posted - 2007.04.24 20:40:00 - [74]
 

Well I'm not a super huge computer techsavvy person, nor exactly am I a business type person. So don't beat me up to hard of this "idea". But why not have a XP compatible version that well you pay for :| When games start lookin infinitely better on dx10 (eve vista client ;p crysis ;p) Then I'd pay a fair amount for that I guess. Could probably charge like 50 bucks (is that like half of vista?) I'm sure a lot of people would get it :| Right? ;p

Dao 2
Thenta-Makur
Posted - 2007.04.24 20:43:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Flash Landsraad


It is called protecting your business and ensuring customer 'loyalty'. I would do exactly the same in MS's shoes and so I am sure would you. The difference is that you are looking at it from the consumer perspective rather than the providing perspective. I personally don't think one should complain about something they would do given the same situation.



Loyalty is earned :|

Flash Landsraad
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.04.24 21:39:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Dao 2
Originally by: Flash Landsraad


It is called protecting your business and ensuring customer 'loyalty'. I would do exactly the same in MS's shoes and so I am sure would you. The difference is that you are looking at it from the consumer perspective rather than the providing perspective. I personally don't think one should complain about something they would do given the same situation.



Loyalty is earned :|



Nah I didn't mean loyalty in that way hehe, I meant it in a more sinister sense, as in keeping one's customers. Hences the ''s.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2007.04.24 21:44:00 - [77]
 

Does moaning about Microsoft count as politics? The matter seems to divide people in much the same way, and if that's not why discussion of politics is banned here, why is it?

N.B. these questions are rhetorical and should not be considered as invitations to respond. Do so at your own risk!

Dao 2
Thenta-Makur
Posted - 2007.04.24 23:59:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Flash Landsraad
Originally by: Dao 2
Originally by: Flash Landsraad


It is called protecting your business and ensuring customer 'loyalty'. I would do exactly the same in MS's shoes and so I am sure would you. The difference is that you are looking at it from the consumer perspective rather than the providing perspective. I personally don't think one should complain about something they would do given the same situation.



Loyalty is earned :|



Nah I didn't mean loyalty in that way hehe, I meant it in a more sinister sense, as in keeping one's customers. Hences the ''s.


i no ;p specially with the ''s but still it seems so wrong to put it there ;p

Dao 2
Thenta-Makur
Posted - 2007.04.25 00:03:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Dao 2 on 25/04/2007 02:46:07
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Does moaning about Microsoft count as politics? The matter seems to divide people in much the same way, and if that's not why discussion of politics is banned here, why is it?

N.B. these questions are rhetorical and should not be considered as invitations to respond. Do so at your own risk!


Any argument divides people ;p Thats the whole point.... if everyone was on the same side then it wouldn't be an argument :| more like an agreefest :| I think politics aren't allowed because it brings in nationilties and other stuff that leads to nasty things like stereotyping and racism ;p (actually I don't even know if they're banned here ;p learn somethin everyday huh ;p)

I'm answering wether you want it or not -_- ;p

oDDiTy V2
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.04.25 02:43:00 - [80]
 

"Agreefest" LOL.

/me writes that one down.

Dao 2
Thenta-Makur
Posted - 2007.04.25 02:49:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Dao 2 on 25/04/2007 02:45:30
Originally by: oDDiTy V2
"Agreefest" LOL.

/me writes that one down.


dunno what else to put but i like it too ;p has a nice ring to it ;p feels good to say too ;p

agreefest ;p

Dao 2
Thenta-Makur
Posted - 2007.04.25 03:01:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Frezik
Also, there are occasionally problems with web pages that only occur in IE, which means I have to look at it in IE for testing.


Wouldn't the best solution be no to use IE anyway :| Its a giant pos ;p

Frezik
Basically Outdated Stereo Equiptment
Posted - 2007.04.25 04:57:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Dao 2
Originally by: Frezik
Also, there are occasionally problems with web pages that only occur in IE, which means I have to look at it in IE for testing.


Wouldn't the best solution be no to use IE anyway :| Its a giant pos ;p


Sure, I'd love that. Trouble is, the company I work under is a Fortune 500. I'm sure telling all their customers that they can't use IE would go over well.

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.04.25 11:08:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Benco97
Edited by: Benco97 on 24/04/2007 18:26:03
Where does the money go?
After Microsoft falls where does the money go?
By which I mean, what OS will make the most sales?
They'll be the new enemy.
THAT has nothing to do with OSs, it's humans. They always want more money and the people with the most money are the enemy.

I dont' want to argue with you DS, you're a great guy and smart, very smart. You know more about both windows and linux than I know about windows, i'm just saying, irrespective of who's at the top there will be hate and this cycle will not stop until there ISN'T anyone at the top, unfortunately there will always be the most popular or the leader.


You're right and you're wrong, I suppose. On the one hand, you are quite right that any company will always try to make as much money as possible. On the other, the open source movement is just a different animal to the proprietary software market.

Take Ubuntu, for example. Their official sponsor-in-chief is Canonical. They make money through providing technical support, professional support contracts, and saleable documentation. It is, therefore, in their interests that Ubuntu is used as widely as possible. But heres the thing- Ubuntu is open source. If you want to, you can open it up and rummage around in the code to your heart's content. So lets say, for example, Canonical start trying to add proprietary elements into Ubuntu, or start using questionable business practices as Microsoft do. What do you think would happen? Someone would just take the full source code (as they are free to do) and re-release their own version without the crap. Voila, every Ubuntu user just moves to "FreeBuntu" or whatever, and Canonical are in the pooper.

So theres nothing stopping Canonical turning into evil Microsoft clone, like you say- but it wont work. It can only work in a world where they have some sort of monopoly, and in the open source world, a monopoly is impossible.

Dao 2
Thenta-Makur
Posted - 2007.04.25 17:57:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Frezik
Originally by: Dao 2
Originally by: Frezik
Also, there are occasionally problems with web pages that only occur in IE, which means I have to look at it in IE for testing.


Wouldn't the best solution be no to use IE anyway :| Its a giant pos ;p


Sure, I'd love that. Trouble is, the company I work under is a Fortune 500. I'm sure telling all their customers that they can't use IE would go over well.



That is the best way to make em switch :D Just tell them you'll be doing them a favor (and its the truth too :o ;p)

Thesas
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2007.04.26 13:28:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Flash Landsraad
I really don't understand why people slag off microsoft whilst using their products. Stinks a bit of hypocrisy to me to be honest (Note I'm not saying any of you do use Windows, I'm speaking generally).


Actually, it stinks of monopoly.

DjemboS
Posted - 2007.12.11 22:35:00 - [87]
 

I'm not any sort of authority on the subject, but I read this thread and couldnt help but add my two cents to this discussion.

First of all, I have been dealing with the XP vs. Vista vs. Mac vs. Linux battle for a long time now, and I've had enough experience to feel like I can voice my experiences without feeling like a fanboi. My first computer was a custom-built 386, but since then Ive owned two macs, run a few linux distros, and of course many versions of OS. My experience is, microsoft has so far created the OS most useful by the most people.
Just as always, theres the hardcore group who loves linux and max, and hates MS. There are many valid points- less viruses are written for macs, and apple has always been the best in allowing applications to work together, aka itunes and ipod for most people, but more importantly, stuff most people dont see, like trying to use after effects and premiere. they work under microsoft, yes, but the workflow is much better under mac. Plus, the idea of the Mac as a closed platform allows apple to write more reliable code and not have to deal with as many driver issues. Linux is nice, too, but for the opposite reasons. I am currently studying CSCI at W&M, and all of our computer science computers are running a build of SUSE. I dual-boot ubuntu and xp on my laptop, and its really useful, not to mention fun, to write small applications into the os to make it easier to use. Drivers are not that hard to find, and most items can be made compatible with some research and a few coding tweaks.
On my main desktop, I boot ubuntu/xp/vista, and use all three. Xp is especially useful to run legacy programs like ulead MSP 8 or micrografx picture publisher, neither of which are made anymore and will never be patched for vista. The driver situation for vista has only recently become good enough that I now use it for most of my computer use. I like the fact that anything I plug in is recognized, and Vista has incorporated most of the reasons I ever used Mac.

The reason Im posting all this, though, is because most people here are probably like me- they can adapt, can handle multiple oses. And Each of these oses has something they are best at. However, when it comes to choosing one, most people would choose microsoft, and that is a good thing for everyone. Ive tried to switch my roommates over to linux, and a few of my peers have owned macs. Almost every time, though, they end up switching over to MS for the same reason people buy ipods. It may not be the best at everything, but its just good enough for the most common uses to get everything done, and its well known that it can do that. And when you want to share a program, or present a powerpoint, or play a game together, or network computers, or... well, you get my point, its 90% likely that the other person will have MS. and that it will work. I agree that for competition purposes, we might be better off if the market share was split evenly, but most people dont care. They're willing to spend the extra $$, and sacrifice a little innovation to make sure that their OS will work with everyone elses OS. This isnt just a random comment though- out of everyone I go to school, barely 5% run anything than MS, and those who either own a desktop or know enough to install a new os, run vista. I feel like this is an important generation, too: college students and younger are the ones who are going to be in charge of the economy when the time comes.
I do agree that it is changing, but I dont think novell or mac or even open source will take down MS. Over time MS will lose power, but just like a lot of the previous innovations and changes of power, it will happen slowly and due to some newcomer, some new idea. Mac and linux have had a ton of time to take down MS, and it hasnt happened yet- can someone else do it? If anything, mac seems to be going more MS- intel, x86, runs windows? but then again, who knows. Those are my thoughts, but remember its just an opinion

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2007.12.12 00:31:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: DjemboS
I'm not any sort of authority on the subject, but I read this thread and couldnt help but add my two cents to this discussion.


Not trying to stop you but check the posting date of this thread. A bit after the fact and Mods hate necros Very Happy.


Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.12.12 01:05:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: DjemboS
I'm not any sort of authority on the subject, but I read this thread and couldnt help but add my two cents to this discussion. First of all, I have been dealing with the XP vs. Vista vs. Mac vs. Linux battle for a long time now, and I've had enough experience to feel like I can voice my experiences without feeling like a fanboi. My first computer was a custom-built 386, but since then Ive owned two macs, run a few linux distros, and of course many versions of OS. My experience is, microsoft has so far created the OS most useful by the most people. Just as always, theres the hardcore group who loves linux and max, and hates MS. There are many valid points- less viruses are written for macs, and apple has always been the best in allowing applications to work together, aka itunes and ipod for most people, but more importantly, stuff most people dont see, like trying to use after effects and premiere. they work under microsoft, yes, but the workflow is much better under mac. Plus, the idea of the Mac as a closed platform allows apple to write more reliable code and not have to deal with as many driver issues. Linux is nice, too, but for the opposite reasons. I am currently studying CSCI at W&M, and all of our computer science computers are running a build of SUSE. I dual-boot ubuntu and xp on my laptop, and its really useful, not to mention fun, to write small applications into the os to make it easier to use. Drivers are not that hard to find, and most items can be made compatible with some research and a few coding tweaks. On my main desktop, I boot ubuntu/xp/vista, and use all three. Xp is especially useful to run legacy programs like ulead MSP 8 or micrografx picture publisher, neither of which are made anymore and will never be patched for vista. The driver situation for vista has only recently become good enough that I now use it for most of my computer use. I like the fact that anything I plug in is recognized, and Vista has incorporated most of the reasons I ever used Mac. The reason Im posting all this, though, is because most people here are probably like me- they can adapt, can handle multiple oses. It may not be the best at everything, but its just good enough for the most common uses to get everything done, and its well known that it can do that. And when you want to share a program, or present a powerpoint, or play a game together, or network computers, or... well, you get my point, its 90% likely that the other person will have MS. and that it will work. I agree that for competition purposes, we might be better off if the market share was split evenly, but most people dont care. They're willing to spend the extra $$, and sacrifice a little innovation to make sure that their OS will work with everyone elses OS. This isnt just a random comment though- out of everyone I go to school, barely 5% run anything than MS, and those who either own a desktop or know enough to install a new os, run vista. I feel like this is an important generation, too: college students and younger are the ones who are going to be in charge of the economy when the time comes.I do agree that it is changing, but I dont think novell or mac or even open source will take down MS. Over time MS will lose power, but just like a lot of the previous innovations and changes of power, it will happen slowly and due to some newcomer, some new idea. Mac and linux have had a ton of time to take down MS, and it hasnt happened yet- can someone else do it? If anything, mac seems to be going more MS- intel, x86, runs windows? but then again, who knows. Those are my thoughts, but remember its.


OMFG MY EYESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!11


Ethidium Bromide
Amarr
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.12 01:22:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Ethidium Bromide on 12/12/2007 01:22:54

Originally by: Verone
Originally by: DjemboS
wall of letters


OMFG MY EYESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!11




it could be [colour=pink]worse[/pink]!

edit: hm.. can't do the colour thingEmbarassed


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