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Flash Landsraad
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.04.24 11:20:00 - [31]
 

I really don't understand why people slag off microsoft whilst using their products. Stinks a bit of hypocrisy to me to be honest (Note I'm not saying any of you do use Windows, I'm speaking generally).

Yes it's a pain in the backside that DX10 was only released for Vista but that's business. At the end of the day MS are there to make money and I'd be doing exactly the same thing in MS's shoes, so I am sure would most other people with an ounce profit yearning.

Businesses aren't lovey dovey organisations put in place to please people, they are created out of a want for profit and that is what they aim for. People can shout 'corrupt microsoft! corrupt microsoft!' all day but I really do not see how maximising profit is corrupt, especially since the whole of Western society is grounded on capitalist ideals.

People don't just give away groundbreaking new technology for free by adding it to already existing OSs.

Fair play to that coder though, must have taken some doing.

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.04.24 12:40:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Flash Landsraad
I really don't understand why people slag off microsoft whilst using their products. Stinks a bit of hypocrisy to me to be honest (Note I'm not saying any of you do use Windows, I'm speaking generally).

Uh, I'd say exactly the opposite.

If you slag off on Ford but you drive a Honda, your words are meaningless.

If you've driven a Ford for 7 years and its been the worst car you've ever used, constantly breaking, and is a complete lemon, your words are definitely meaningful.

We gain the right to slag off on Microsoft by using their products.

Ealiom
EAT THE POOR
Posted - 2007.04.24 13:20:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 13:19:13
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Stuff about cars Wink


Personally (and I know im not alone) I haven't given a single penny to Microsoft. I do not feel like I have a right to complain about the software that I use every day for free. I dont think I have a right to complain about the Operating systems we have today due to Microsoft's dominance of the market. In fact I think we take Microsoft for granted, they have done alot for us since home computing became a reality.

I enjoy my games, movies, tv shows, internet and myriad of software all on Microsofts OS. I do not see a fault with it. Compared to Windows98, XP is a godsend. Will Vista be the same in a few years time. Maybeez yes maybeez no.
In the meantime im going to enjoy my games on whatever OS is the easiest to use, most widly available and has no compatibility problems. When another OS usurps XP from that throne, be it Vista or otherwise I will gladly jump ship.

We will all be using Microsoft products for the forseeable future, so I wont pour scorn at Microsoft. I can hardly blame them for being a big company wanting more money. There isn't another company in this world who wouldn't be the same had they been in Microsfot's position.

Instead im more inclined to look at all the other OS providers and ask them to get there fingers out.
Do you want to see Microsoft stand up and take notice? Do you want OS updates to offer much more? Do you want the providers to listen to the consumers?

Then you will have to look at Microsofts competitors, they will have to become a serious threat to Microsofts dominance before any of that is likely.

_______________
p.s. Dark your sig. "Dancing to the tune of the drums of war"

Made me laugh Laughing but you should alter it more to the original Perfect Circle's i.e. "Dancing to the rythme of the war drums" less tongue twistery!

alesta
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.04.24 13:20:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Flash Landsraad
I really don't understand why people slag off microsoft whilst using their products. Stinks a bit of hypocrisy to me to be honest (Note I'm not saying any of you do use Windows, I'm speaking generally).

Uh, I'd say exactly the opposite.

If you slag off on Ford but you drive a Honda, your words are meaningless.

If you've driven a Ford for 7 years and its been the worst car you've ever used, constantly breaking, and is a complete lemon, your words are definitely meaningful.

We gain the right to slag off on Microsoft by using their products.



*pets his ford....its ok baby.... dont let that bad man get to you............i love my ford...thunderbirds FTW.............

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.04.24 13:34:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Flash Landsraad
I really don't understand why people slag off microsoft whilst using their products. Stinks a bit of hypocrisy to me to be honest (Note I'm not saying any of you do use Windows, I'm speaking generally).


Originally by: Ealiom

Instead im more inclined to look at all the other OS providers and ask them to get there fingers out.
Do you want to see Microsoft stand up and take notice? Do you want OS updates to offer much more? Do you want the providers to listen to the consumers?

Then you will have to look at Microsofts competitors, they will have to become a serious threat to Microsofts dominance before any of that is likely.



I use XP for only 2 reasons: games and AutoCad.

Fact is, I like to be able to run AutoCad in smooth and native mode, without the hassle of emulation. And it's great to be able to buy a game and just play it bug free, without waiting 6 months for a working version to be handled. Does this mean I think that XP is more secure, say, than Linux? Or that I find the user interface better in XP? Or that I think it is less buggy? No.

The sole reason that Windows remains dominant is compatibility- it has not a single other thing in it's favour. And unfortunately, its the one thing that other OS's really can't fix.

Ealiom says that other OS's need to get their fingers out- the thing is, they already have. Few people would claim Windows is significantly technologically advanced above Mac, say. Mac already has closed that gap. And unfortunately, theres nothing Apple can do about the fact that AutoCad is written only in a Windows format- no amount of finger-pulling will change it.

The best any rival OS's can do is work on emulation, dual booting, and compatibility layers. And they're all doing pretty well in that direction- the fact that 90% of modern Windows games can be played in Wine is one less reason for some people to use windows.



The thing I get fed up with is the "Microsoft is invincible" crowd. They're a mix of pessimists, fanbois', and armchair specialists who, no matter what ****-ups Microsoft make, or what advances their rivals make, will still decry that things will never (indeed, can never) change.

The fact is people only stick with Microsoft because its easier than not. If another OS can become just as "easy", then standard market mechanics will take over- and Windows certainly doesn't have value for money on it's side.

Ealiom
EAT THE POOR
Posted - 2007.04.24 13:47:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 13:54:45
Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 13:44:45
Originally by: Patch86
I use XP for only 2 reasons: games and AutoCad.


Autocad user myself mate. Architectural Technician / modeller Very Happy

Originally by: Patch86
The sole reason that Windows remains dominant is compatibility- it has not a single other thing in it's favour. And unfortunately, its the one thing that other OS's really can't fix.

Ealiom says that other OS's need to get their fingers out- the thing is, they already have. Few people would claim Windows is significantly technologically advanced above Mac, say. Mac already has closed that gap. And unfortunately, theres nothing Apple can do about the fact that AutoCad is written only in a Windows format- no amount of finger-pulling will change it.

The best any rival OS's can do is work on emulation, dual booting, and compatibility layers. And they're all doing pretty well in that direction- the fact that 90% of modern Windows games can be played in Wine is one less reason for some people to use windows.


What I mean is that the competitors will have to start marketing amongst other things. Theres no way they can just materialize in everyones homes and businesses overnight. But what they can do is make themselves more and more attractive to home and business users and indeed software developers. They will have to offer something that Microsoft hasn't etc. Its the only way you will see Microsoft's dominace wane and a healthy competition break out.

I believe recently there has been calls for Microsoft to make its OS open sourced so as to break there monopoly. Something they are obviously fighting. Someone will be able to tell me wether its been through the courts yet.
This potentially would be the best solution. All OS developers would have access to a foundation that all PC users take for granted, and would be able to develop there own unique OS. Question

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.04.24 13:54:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Ealiom
What I mean is that the competitors will have to start marketing amongst other things. Theres no way they can just materialize in everyones homes and businesses overnight. But what they can do is make themselves more and more attractive to home and business users and indeed software developers. They will have to offer something that Microsoft hasn't etc. Its the only way you will see Microsoft's dominace wane and a healthy competition break out.

You think they're not? Novell has been pushing out some parodies of the "Mac and PC" ads to add Linux (a cute chick, contrasting with the geeky Mac/PC guys). You can find them on Youtube.

Flash Landsraad
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.04.24 14:02:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
We gain the right to slag off on Microsoft by using their products.


That is true however not what I was getting at. If MS OSs are so rubbish then why don't people switch?

Ease of use is the key word here. People don't want to mess around installing community made OSs that wont run their programs without emulation anyway and most of the PC buying market probably wouldn't know how to do this in the first place anyway.

It is the fact that OSs such as Wine are free which is keeping them from being a direct threat to microsoft. If people started selling them and investing more time into making them better then they may start to become more mainstream. When that happens companies have to start designing software to be compatible with them and then they become a threat to microsoft.

Yes Linux is fully customisable, yes it has better security than Windows, but: at the moment, the average PC user wants to buy a pc, go home, plug some wires in, turn it on and have it work out of the box. Windows provides this without software compatibility errors and other such frivalties. Until free OSs do the same nothing will change.

I don't know about anyone else but I've been using XP since it first came out and I have never had any security issues with it whatsoever. And no my PC is not full of spyware, adware and viruses, I check regularly.

Ealiom
EAT THE POOR
Posted - 2007.04.24 14:03:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Ealiom
What I mean is that the competitors will have to start marketing amongst other things. Theres no way they can just materialize in everyones homes and businesses overnight. But what they can do is make themselves more and more attractive to home and business users and indeed software developers. They will have to offer something that Microsoft hasn't etc. Its the only way you will see Microsoft's dominace wane and a healthy competition break out.

You think they're not? Novell has been pushing out some parodies of the "Mac and PC" ads to add Linux (a cute chick, contrasting with the geeky Mac/PC guys). You can find them on Youtube.


lol yeah saw them and while funny - most users are watching it on a windows machine. They laugh they giggle and then load up one of there games for some fun. They dont care, or if they do its more of a distant hyprocritical [shaking fist] "Damn you Microsoft cos you so evil" double clicks game icon.

Quirky adverts aint gonna topple Microsoft. In all probability it will likely be either Microsoft themselves that topple the company, or some sort of court ruling (see above posts late edit)

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.04.24 14:06:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/04/2007 14:03:38
Originally by: Flash Landsraad
That is true however not what I was getting at. If MS OSs are so rubbish then why don't people switch?

Because Microsoft is an abusive monopoly.
Originally by: Flash Landsraad

Ease of use is the key word here. People don't want to mess around installing community made OSs that wont run their programs without emulation anyway and most of the PC buying market probably wouldn't know how to do this in the first place anyway.

Ubuntu is much, much easier to install and use than Windows XP, by an order of magnitude.
Originally by: Flash Landsraad

It is the fact that OSs such as Wine are free which is keeping them from being a direct threat to microsoft. If people started selling them and investing more time into making them better then they may start to become more mainstream. When that happens companies have to start designing software to be compatible with them and then they become a threat to microsoft.

Wrong. Heard of Cedega? They spent millions of dollars developing that from WINE and WINE has basically surpassed it even though Cedega isn't free!
Originally by: Flash Landsraad

Yes Linux is fully customisable, yes it has better security than Windows, but: at the moment, the average PC user wants to buy a pc, go home, plug some wires in, turn it on and have it work out of the box. Windows provides this without software compatibility errors and other such frivalties. Until free OSs do the same nothing will change.

Windows does not work out of the box, ever. The only reason it does is because Dell, etc fix it up for the users before they get the computer. If you reinstall Windows it hardly gets a quarter of the drivers you need installed automatically. Ubuntu gets at lesat 90%+. It works out of the box. Windows does not.
Originally by: Flash Landsraad

I don't know about anyone else but I've been using XP since it first came out and I have never had any security issues with it whatsoever. And no my PC is not full of spyware, adware and viruses, I check regularly.

You're one of the 1% minority. 90% of the world has computers that are slow as crap because they're zombie machines covered with spyware.
Originally by: Ealiom
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Ealiom
What I mean is that the competitors will have to start marketing amongst other things. Theres no way they can just materialize in everyones homes and businesses overnight. But what they can do is make themselves more and more attractive to home and business users and indeed software developers. They will have to offer something that Microsoft hasn't etc. Its the only way you will see Microsoft's dominace wane and a healthy competition break out.

You think they're not? Novell has been pushing out some parodies of the "Mac and PC" ads to add Linux (a cute chick, contrasting with the geeky Mac/PC guys). You can find them on Youtube.


lol yeah saw them and while funny - most users are watching it on a windows machine. They laugh they giggle and then load up one of there games for some fun. They dont care, or if they do its more of a distant hyprocritical [shaking fist] "Damn you Microsoft cos you so evil" double clicks game icon.

Quirky adverts aint gonna topple Microsoft. In all probability it will likely be either Microsoft themselves that topple the company, or some sort of court ruling (see above posts late edit)

Microsoft has proven in the past that they are above the law. No legal methods can be used to take down a company that completely ignores the rule of law, either through abuse of the legal system or simply ignoring court orders and rulings.

Flash Landsraad
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.04.24 14:08:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Ealiom
I believe recently there has been calls for Microsoft to make its OS open sourced so as to break there monopoly. Something they are obviously fighting. Someone will be able to tell me wether its been through the courts yet.
This potentially would be the best solution. All OS developers would have access to a foundation that all PC users take for granted, and would be able to develop there own unique OS. Question


See whether I have to pay money for Microsoft OSs or not this is something I fundamentally disagree with. It goes against every kind of property law in existence. Microsoft design their OSs, sure Windows wasn't designed from scratch but if you follow down the line the original was. Why should other companies be allowed to rip microsoft OS source to make their own and start making profit from it if they can't even be bothered to develop their own from the ground up in the first place?

That's like you designing a game, me taking that said game code free of charge, adding a single feature to it and then undercutting your prices for more functionality and still making profit because I didn't pay for it in the first place.

Flash Landsraad
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.04.24 14:10:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Flash Landsraad on 24/04/2007 14:08:17
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Windows does not work out of the box, ever. The only reason it does is because Dell, etc fix it up for the users before they get the computer. If you reinstall Windows it hardly gets a quarter of the drivers you need installed automatically. Ubuntu gets at lesat 90%+. It works out of the box. Windows does not.


I recently built a new PC, installed my old XP with combined service pack 2 disc, it is working perfectly and fast with generic XP drivers and I have done nothing to it.

Obviously I then installed hardware specific drivers of my own, but it was working fine without them.

Ealiom
EAT THE POOR
Posted - 2007.04.24 14:19:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Ubuntu is much, much easier to install and use than Windows XP, by an order of magnitude.

If so why isn't anyone using it, Im not ashamed to admit that ive never heard of it.

Originally by: Dark Shikari
You're one of the 1% minority. 90% of the world has computers that are slow as crap because they're zombie machines covered with spyware.

I'll back him up on that one. Ive been running my machine with only the windows firewall and no background virus checker now since getting XP. Other than running Ad-Aware, which is only good housekeeping anyway I have had no problems.

As for Microsoft constantly laughing in the face of the law. Well that can easily change when some hard ass gets the power. Fines are not going to stop microsoft that been proven already. Cost of ignoring the law = fine of $500million cost of following the law = billion in lost revenue. Hmmm i'll take the fine please.
The minute they begin attacking Microsofts assets i.e. trade restrictions. You will see Microsoft get scared. No one has had the balls to do that yet though, I can imagine it happening one day though.

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.04.24 14:22:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/04/2007 14:18:41
Originally by: Ealiom
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Ubuntu is much, much easier to install and use than Windows XP, by an order of magnitude.

If so why isn't anyone using it, Im not ashamed to admit that ive never heard of it.

People are using it.

It started with the geeks.

But then it spread. Now the tech-savvy non-geeks are using it.

Now people are installing it for their grandmothers who can't figure out how to use Windows.

Dell is considering adding it as an OS option on their machines.

And slowly but surely, it is replacing Windows.
Originally by: Flash Landsraad
Edited by: Flash Landsraad on 24/04/2007 14:08:17
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Windows does not work out of the box, ever. The only reason it does is because Dell, etc fix it up for the users before they get the computer. If you reinstall Windows it hardly gets a quarter of the drivers you need installed automatically. Ubuntu gets at lesat 90%+. It works out of the box. Windows does not.


I recently built a new PC, installed my old XP with combined service pack 2 disc, it is working perfectly and fast with generic XP drivers and I have done nothing to it.

Obviously I then installed hardware specific drivers of my own, but it was working fine without them.

I reinstalled XP on my laptop.

Graphics drivers didn't work.
Ethernet didn't work, nor did wireless, so I had to burn the drivers to a CD to get them to work.
Mouse didn't work, only the touchpad.
Sound didn't work. Rolling Eyes

Ubuntu worked with all of the above out of the box without any tweaking or extra drivers.

Ealiom
EAT THE POOR
Posted - 2007.04.24 14:26:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Flash Landsraad
this is something I fundamentally disagree with. It goes against every kind of property law in existence.


Hmm but there are also laws in place to prevent (supposedly) monopoly's. Fair trade and all that. Microsoft have been taken to court year in year out for there aggressive squashin of any fledgling company who dared to raise there heads above the sand.

I can't really blame them for doing so, but the situation is pretty much you get what Microsoft gives you. Things 'could' be much better. Im sure some sort of agreement would be reached if Microsft were forced to share there OS's seaquets. i.e. a portion of the companies profits.
I dont know point is that ive heard thats what they have been trying to do last i heard.

Ealiom
EAT THE POOR
Posted - 2007.04.24 14:34:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 14:32:55
Originally by: Dark Shikari
It started with the geeks.
But then it spread. Now the tech-savvy non-geeks are using it.
Now people are installing it for their grandmothers who can't figure out how to use Windows.
Dell is considering adding it as an OS option on their machines.


Sorry Dark but that reaks of wishful thinking. Im no slouch in the tech department. I keep up to date as much I can on as much as I can and I've never heard of it. If I dont have enough time to know something computer related upside down and back to front, I at least get familar with it. I will no doubt look, but I remain unconvinced by this claim. As for Dell looking into making it an option. I seriously doubt it.

Originally by: Dark Shikari
And slowly but surely, it is replacing Windows


Laughing it must be moving helluva slow Wink
I'll look into this myself but every fibre in my body is chortling 'yeah right' at the moment.

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.04.24 14:45:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/04/2007 14:41:18
Originally by: Ealiom
Originally by: Dark Shikari
It started with the geeks.
But then it spread. Now the tech-savvy non-geeks are using it.
Now people are installing it for their grandmothers who can't figure out how to use Windows.
Dell is considering adding it as an OS option on their machines.


Sorry Dark but that reaks of wishful thinking. Im no slouch in the tech department. I keep up to date as i can on as much as i can. Ive never heard of it, I will no doubt look, but i remain unconvinced by this claim. As for Dell looking into making it an option. I seriously doubt it.

It appears you have not been paying attention.

Dell has been opening to the option of providing Linux on their machines due to widespread complaints by both business and home users. They held a poll and discussion online on various options where people discussed which Dell should use. They seem to be leaning towards Ubuntu, as its by far the most average-user-friendly option.

It is not easy to unseat a massive abusive cartel. But it will eventually happen, and the hundreds of thousands of Ubuntu CDs shipping across the world are just one step towards it.

Miss Anthropy
Perkone
Posted - 2007.04.24 14:47:00 - [48]
 

I tried Ubuntu about 2 or 3 years ago out of curiousity and was impressed. My previous experience with Linux (while at Uni about 6 years ago) had been FreeBSD, SuSE and Red Hat (all of which I found far too complicated). The thing that struck me most about Ubuntu was that it didn't feel like Linux. It didn't have that scary Linux complexity that frightens off lazy Windows users.

Suffice it to say that I never really got into Ubuntu because all my software is Windows based and I'm a lazy Windows user like I mentioned above. I plug a disc in and it works. I didn't care how or why.

But then Vista came along and I started to read about DRM and even tried it out for myself. It's nice looking but (like a good looking female) is high maintenance and demanding. I'm seriously thinking about going back to using Ubuntu and figuring out how to use WINE. If Vista is the future, then Mr Gates can kiss my dog's butt.

Miss Anthropy
Perkone
Posted - 2007.04.24 14:52:00 - [49]
 

Oh, and DS is right about Dell. I read it on the BBC News website. Apparently they've had over 11,000 complaints from their users asking them to offer the option of having XP pre-installed on new machines.

Microsoft have tried to play this down by saying that it was only a small number of Dell customers who asked for this. But 11,000 kinda speaks for itself. Sorry I don't have a linky, but it was on the BBC News website about a week or so ago.

Ealiom
EAT THE POOR
Posted - 2007.04.24 14:53:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/04/2007 14:41:18
Originally by: Ealiom
Originally by: Dark Shikari
It started with the geeks.
But then it spread. Now the tech-savvy non-geeks are using it.
Now people are installing it for their grandmothers who can't figure out how to use Windows.
Dell is considering adding it as an OS option on their machines.


Sorry Dark but that reaks of wishful thinking. Im no slouch in the tech department. I keep up to date as i can on as much as i can. Ive never heard of it, I will no doubt look, but i remain unconvinced by this claim. As for Dell looking into making it an option. I seriously doubt it.

It appears you have not been paying attention.

Dell has been opening to the option of providing Linux on their machines due to widespread complaints by both business and home users. They held a poll and discussion online on various options where people discussed which Dell should use. They seem to be leaning towards Ubuntu, as its by far the most average-user-friendly option.

It is not easy to unseat a massive abusive cartel. But it will eventually happen, and the hundreds of thousands of Ubuntu CDs shipping across the world are just one step towards it.


I do hope your right, that we will see some competition for Microsoft but I wonder. All the odds are against ubuntu (nice meaning btw) and will they find it easy to convince mass businesses and Joe Average.
My previous comments are a reaction to your possitively bubbly enthusiasm and conviction. As if Ubuntu were already in everyones homes.

You are right it is not easy. I wish them well but i can see it going the way just about every other version of linux has went.

Ealiom
EAT THE POOR
Posted - 2007.04.24 14:57:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 14:58:12
Originally by: Miss Anthropy
Oh, and DS is right about Dell. I read it on the BBC News website. Apparently they've had over 11,000 complaints from their users asking them to offer the option of having XP pre-installed on new machines.

Microsoft have tried to play this down by saying that it was only a small number of Dell customers who asked for this. But 11,000 kinda speaks for itself. Sorry I don't have a linky, but it was on the BBC News website about a week or so ago.


Yeah thats people demanding XP over Vista for an OS option not Ubuntu over XP and Vista.

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.04.24 15:08:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Ealiom
Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 14:58:12
Originally by: Miss Anthropy
Oh, and DS is right about Dell. I read it on the BBC News website. Apparently they've had over 11,000 complaints from their users asking them to offer the option of having XP pre-installed on new machines.

Microsoft have tried to play this down by saying that it was only a small number of Dell customers who asked for this. But 11,000 kinda speaks for itself. Sorry I don't have a linky, but it was on the BBC News website about a week or so ago.


Yeah thats people demanding XP over Vista for an OS option not Ubuntu over XP and Vista.

Yeah that's a separate issue. The Linux option came before the recent XP news.

Miss Anthropy
Perkone
Posted - 2007.04.24 15:11:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Ealiom
stuff...

You are right it is not easy. I wish them well but i can see it going the way just about every other version of linux has went.


SuSE is still going after about 10 years. Red Hat is going strong under a new name. FreeBSD is still widely used in Universities (although it's technically not Linux). Ubuntu has been around for over 5 years. There are also other linux distributions that are still going strong. Debian, Mandrake/Mandriva, etc. So you're slightly wrong about your pessimistic outlook there.

I'm not a linux user but have been aware of it's existence for years and continue to look at news on the various distributions I've tried out.

Ealiom
EAT THE POOR
Posted - 2007.04.24 15:26:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 15:23:16
Originally by: Ealiom
You are right it is not easy. I wish them well but i can see it going the way just about every other version of linux has went.


Originally by: Miss Anthropy
So you're slightly wrong about your pessimistic outlook there.


By that I mean not mass market / threat to Microsoft's dominance. I don't mean to imply they have crumbled to dust and don't exist anymore. Just that in order to force change they need to do more than they have done (which isn't easy)

Frezik
Basically Outdated Stereo Equiptment
Posted - 2007.04.24 16:21:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Flash Landsraad
I really don't understand why people slag off microsoft whilst using their products. Stinks a bit of hypocrisy to me to be honest (Note I'm not saying any of you do use Windows, I'm speaking generally).

. . .

Businesses aren't lovey dovey organisations put in place to please people, they are created out of a want for profit and that is what they aim for. People can shout 'corrupt microsoft! corrupt microsoft!' all day but I really do not see how maximising profit is corrupt, especially since the whole of Western society is grounded on capitalist ideals.


A monopoly is an example of market failure, i.e., the "invisible hand" of the market is no longer driving price and choices. The standard capitalist statement of "if you don't like it, don't buy it" no longer works because you are forced to buy it for many practical reasons. Even downloading Windows illegally takes a time investment (time = money, remember), so it's not like you're not buying it that way. You're just buying it in a way that Microsoft doesn't get any revenue out of it.

For almost any given task, there is an equal or better way to do it that doesn't involve Microsoft. There are several word processors that are better than Office. E-mail and web browsing can be handled by any modern computer with less risk of malware compared to Windows. Gaming can be done more cheaply on consoles (with reservations, of course).

But for all those tasks, people end up buying a Microsoft solution, anyway. This is simply because they are often not presented with a choice, and don't have the time, inclination, or ability to make a more informed choice. Windows is what is sold by HP and Dell, so that's what people buy.

We don't owe Microsoft anything for this. We've already given them too much, IMHO. If Microsoft hadn't helped bring the PC into everyone's home, somebody else would have. There were a lot of players trying to do the same thing from the '80s and into the '90s, and most of them would have done a better job than Microsoft if they had the chance. Both DOS and early Windows were laughably inferior to similar packages of the time. But the deals Microsoft (such as with IBM) as well as solid marketing put them up at the "best" solution in the minds of customers, regardless of technical merits.

I'd love to live a Microsoft-free existence. I already rely significantly less on Microsoft than I did two years ago. But I only got here by conscious effort that most people are not wiling to make, and I still can't rid Microsoft from my house completely.

In short, your statements may have merit if we weren't forced to use Microsoft by many outside factors. The fact is that we are, so we are justified in complaining even while using their products.

Buxaroo
Gallente
The Army of The Ori
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
Posted - 2007.04.24 16:37:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Buxaroo on 24/04/2007 16:35:12
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Flash Landsraad
I really don't understand why people slag off microsoft whilst using their products. Stinks a bit of hypocrisy to me to be honest (Note I'm not saying any of you do use Windows, I'm speaking generally).

Uh, I'd say exactly the opposite.

If you slag off on Ford but you drive a Honda, your words are meaningless.

If you've driven a Ford for 7 years and its been the worst car you've ever used, constantly breaking, and is a complete lemon, your words are definitely meaningful.

We gain the right to slag off on Microsoft by using their products.


Well put. I am no M$ fan whatsoever. I despise them. XP was and is the only good OS they have made. W2K seems to have been a hit back in the day for servers etc but I am talking about personal OS and not servers.

I think the main mistake M$ made was trying to make Vista run on older hardware. That is the main problem with Vista: too much gunk.

And if they can make DX10 run on Linux or XP, well Vista is gonna tank and rightfully so. With DS's thread about Ubuntu (crap keep forgetting how to spell it) and all these workarounds and abilities to run programs I use all the time like Teamspeak etc, Winblows is going to a seperate 50 gig partition only for those programs I can't YET run on Linux.

I was looking for an excuse to get back into linux, I guess the tides are turning in that favor for meugh

Ealiom
EAT THE POOR
Posted - 2007.04.24 16:38:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 16:35:46
Originally by: Frezik
Check out ma fanci rit'in


LaughingIve got a report to write this week, could you do it for meLaughing

Well written, all good points, except. I have an issue about your assertion that any other company could have did a better job.
I believe that in the early years it actually benefitted home users new to the whole home computing thing to have Microsoft brutally monopolizing the computer market.
Rather than have several options available to usthey had one and it was forced upon them. It helped calm down something that could have potentially been a bloody great headache.

present day its a different story PC's are everywhere and we need choice.

anyways, well put though and about this report i need done.......

Frezik
Basically Outdated Stereo Equiptment
Posted - 2007.04.24 17:37:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Ealiom
I believe that in the early years it actually benefitted home users new to the whole home computing thing to have Microsoft brutally monopolizing the computer market.
Rather than have several options available to usthey had one and it was forced upon them. It helped calm down something that could have potentially been a bloody great headache.


There is merit to the idea that the OS market will naturally tend twards a monopoly, since it's easier for software vendors and customer services to support one OS rather than many. It may well be that whoever else would have helped get a PC into every home would have also ended up a monopoly. However, that group probably would have started with a virtual memory model that wasn't a sick joke (or, in comparison to DOS, any virtual memory model) and gone up from there.

Doubles Vendor
Posted - 2007.04.24 18:01:00 - [59]
 

*snip*

Please don't troll -Sahwoolo

Benco97
Gallente
Terraprobe Dynamics
Posted - 2007.04.24 18:19:00 - [60]
 

I love the way you all think that when Microsoft falls all the people making different versions of Linux and other OSs will hold hands and sing.
It'll happen again and the hate will turn towards the most successful and the cycle will continue.
This "OMG I must get microsoft out of my house" nonsense is ridiculous.
Oh but the other OSs are nothing like Microsoft, they don't want money, they want world peace... yeah.. right..


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