open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Pirates... In my high sec? Its more likely than you think.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

Author Topic

Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.04.23 20:01:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: sbreach
I still think this is the wrong decision but then it's CCP's game so it is their rules.

Sad as i would say that is a very interesting and creative way to play the game. and what about all the people who have talked about entering high sec for quick pick ups or so. I feel sorry that a way of playing for you has been removed, (i dont think it says anywhere you should get instant concordukken for being a pirate in low sec). Me thinks pirates need some boosting.

Considering its easier to just get high sec status and war dec people (well its limited now) in high sec and pirate them that way, Sad to see people trying alternative methods of killing players other than gate camping, ganking, tricking people into it and what not.

I still think this is wrong. I would be spite fall and send every killmail you got from doing this and saying, we did this not knowing it was a exploit please fix it as we don't wish to be considered exploiters!

I'm sure they will thank you for your dedication and willingness to uphold the rules! even if the rules are clearly stated, or sporadically inforced. That or they click the ban hammer button so best ignore that.

I hope you find other more creative ways to go about your business and RPing.


Or you'd get it through your head that CCP, despite their PvP focus in this game, really isn't tolerant with open PvP in high sec and those who try would get this through their heads after the numerous revamps to high security (Concord upgrades, flagging, wardec cost increases) and stick with the program of properly roleplaying a pirate without the moral qualms over having to trick someone into getting aggro.

SN3263827
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.04.23 20:08:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Janu Hull
Or you'd get it through your head that CCP, despite their PvP focus in this game, really isn't tolerant with open PvP in high sec and those who try would get this through their heads after the numerous revamps to high security (Concord upgrades, flagging, wardec cost increases) and stick with the program of properly roleplaying a pirate without the moral qualms over having to trick someone into getting aggro.


"Properly roleplaying"? Could you please enlighten me as to how my character should act? I'd hate for him to do anything of which you personally disapprove. Perhaps you could create an in-game channel for us all to join so you can direct our actions more easily?

How can you not see that raiding high security space is exactly what a pirate with declared disregard for the authority of the State would do?

If it isn't intended for it to be possible then fair enough, if CCP make it clear that it shouldn't be possible I'm happy to abide by their rules, and will ensure that my corp members do the same (or get kicked). But don't tell me what the "proper" motivation and action of my character is.


sbreach
Gallente
PezCo - Ice Services
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2007.04.23 20:28:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: sbreach on 23/04/2007 20:25:10
Edit for not reading the post properly.

Whats the difference between a random corp war deccing someone and attacking? the difference is, with the pirates anyone can shoot them, they cannot use remote XXX on each other due to flagging rules. and that they have to engage faction police to be able to move around to fight war targets. So we got handicapped role playing pirates. War deccing people to fight in high sec will not end, it just wont happen in the same scale.

When the corp I'm in was war decced we decided to have a small gang of 5 stay behind for a bit and have some fun. We saw (from cloaking on the gate) that they had to warp in engage the police and go off and such probably hunting other war targets, so when they left i had a gang form on the gate to try to attack one of them if they returned.

Now as they are a Role playing pirate corp, and the fact what they are doing is almost privateers on ultra hard mode. privateers got nerfed, these got a ban? now if it was a case of pirates entering and being able to freely shoot anyone then yes id prey the nerf bat was swung and swung hard.

And as part of a industrial corp, I like high sec to be safe but I also understand that no place should ever be 100% safe, cept stations they need to be safe ;_:. But until ccp give a 100% certainty and without conflicting messages from gm's its to early to say what CCP's view is. If they say its allowed its allowed if they ultimately say it isn't then it isn't and you can say your right. But no one can say for sure. specially since the responses given by gms are conflicting.

But in my opinion and viewpoint trying to fight valid war targets in high sec with -5 sec status and dealing with the risks and dangers it brings is alot better than deccing 80 corps and having fun in high sec. sure its getting nerfed to the extreme now which is kind of sad but if they felt what you said they would of taken harsher and quicker action to that problem, so on that basis I think at least the ban was incredibly rash and at the most that this shouldn't be considered a exploit more a carebears best chance at killing a nasty pirate. as lets face it, you'll never have a easier chance killing a pirate with -10 when hes high sec. he can only defend himself and no one can help him.

Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.04.23 20:52:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: SN3263827
Originally by: Janu Hull
Or you'd get it through your head that CCP, despite their PvP focus in this game, really isn't tolerant with open PvP in high sec and those who try would get this through their heads after the numerous revamps to high security (Concord upgrades, flagging, wardec cost increases) and stick with the program of properly roleplaying a pirate without the moral qualms over having to trick someone into getting aggro.


"Properly roleplaying"? Could you please enlighten me as to how my character should act? I'd hate for him to do anything of which you personally disapprove. Perhaps you could create an in-game channel for us all to join so you can direct our actions more easily?

How can you not see that raiding high security space is exactly what a pirate with declared disregard for the authority of the State would do?

If it isn't intended for it to be possible then fair enough, if CCP make it clear that it shouldn't be possible I'm happy to abide by their rules, and will ensure that my corp members do the same (or get kicked). But don't tell me what the "proper" motivation and action of my character is.




Ah, forget it. Do what you want. CCP isn't paying me to compensate for your malfunctioning clue-meter. Feel free to bash your head against their countermeasures to high sec piracy, get your ships nailed in enforced PvE and eventually face the ban stick.

The more of you playing THAT stupid game, the fewer of you I have to dodge when I'm commuting through 0.0.Rolling Eyes

The Slayette
Posted - 2007.04.23 21:01:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Janu Hull
Ah, forget it. Do what you want. CCP isn't paying me to compensate for your malfunctioning clue-meter. Feel free to bash your head against their countermeasures to high sec piracy, get your ships nailed in enforced PvE and eventually face the ban stick.

The more of you playing THAT stupid game, the fewer of you I have to dodge when I'm commuting through 0.0.Rolling Eyes


You know, it wouldnt be called "Piracy" if we stuck to some random 0.0 system. The whole point of pirates was that they robbed from people in "safe" waters, in patrolled waters, in places they shouldnt be and weren't expected. I dont see why pirates in Eve should be any different.

Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.04.23 21:11:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: The Slayette
Originally by: Janu Hull
Ah, forget it. Do what you want. CCP isn't paying me to compensate for your malfunctioning clue-meter. Feel free to bash your head against their countermeasures to high sec piracy, get your ships nailed in enforced PvE and eventually face the ban stick.

The more of you playing THAT stupid game, the fewer of you I have to dodge when I'm commuting through 0.0.Rolling Eyes


You know, it wouldnt be called "Piracy" if we stuck to some random 0.0 system. The whole point of pirates was that they robbed from people in "safe" waters, in patrolled waters, in places they shouldnt be and weren't expected. I dont see why pirates in Eve should be any different.


I would suspect that the lowsec systems were CCP's compromise on that matter. Highsec is a training ground for rookie players and those who really aren't into the endgame, for whatever reason. While I understand and respect your opinion, the simple fact is, CCP is making it clear through their actions and reactions that while PvP is a central focus to the game, there are places they don't want people doing it except when someone is being genuinely stupid and fully deserving of it. Period.

Some people aren't taking the hint, so the nerf bat keeps coming down on their head, and in some cases, the banstick is applied. You'd think that might trigger a survival response in people who are facing it, something like "ok, I get the point", but I'm not seeing it. On the one hand, I admire the stubbornness driving it, I put my other hand to my forehead over the bloody minded stupidity.

SN3263827
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.04.23 21:51:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Janu Hull
there are places they don't want people doing it except when someone is being genuinely stupid and fully deserving of it. Period.
I'd say that someone attacking a -10 player is consenting to PVP, wouldn't you?

The only people I can attack on these outings are people who shoot me first and War Targets. Both of which anyone can do. The only difference is that in the first instance Concord aren't involved, where they would be if two non-outlaws decided to duke it out.

I don't know why you think me flashing red somehow makes it so I can attack in highsec with impunity. It doesn't.

Get thee behind me, troll.

Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.04.23 22:13:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Janu Hull on 23/04/2007 22:09:10
Originally by: SN3263827
Originally by: Janu Hull
there are places they don't want people doing it except when someone is being genuinely stupid and fully deserving of it. Period.
I'd say that someone attacking a -10 player is consenting to PVP, wouldn't you?


Yup, safe to say, except that by game design, you shouldn't be in high sec to begin with. Spoofing the AI is as much an exploit as any other.

SN3263827
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.04.23 22:18:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: SN3263827 on 23/04/2007 22:15:10
Originally by: Janu Hull
Yup, safe to say, except that by game design, you shouldn't be in high sec to begin with.


What exactly are you basing this assumption on? I can't find anywhere that says I shouldn't be in high sec. I've found places that say I'll be attacked by faction police, but none that say I can't enter. In fact, I have messages from 2 distinct GMs saying that entering high sec is fine if you can find a way to evade or destroy the police.

Quote:
Spoofing the AI is as much an exploit as any other.
Unless you're using a definition of "spoof" that is different to the one that normal English-speaking people use, that sentence makes no sense. I'd be happy to offer a rebuttal if I could just work out what you're trying to say.

NightmareX
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2007.04.24 08:13:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: NightmareX on 24/04/2007 08:46:59
Originally by: Janu Hull
Edited by: Janu Hull on 23/04/2007 22:09:10
Originally by: SN3263827
Originally by: Janu Hull
there are places they don't want people doing it except when someone is being genuinely stupid and fully deserving of it. Period.
I'd say that someone attacking a -10 player is consenting to PVP, wouldn't you?


Yup, safe to say, except that by game design, you shouldn't be in high sec to begin with. Spoofing the AI is as much an exploit as any other.


Where does it say or where is it written that we shouldn't be in empire? or is that the carebears are saying that because they are so fecking scared of us pirates or?.

And we are pirates, we don't have rules, or we have some few rules to follow. One of the rules to follow is ransoms, and don't do mining.

When we are moving from place to place, we have to go via high sec systems to be able to get to a new region in most cases.

Callthetruth
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.04.24 08:21:00 - [71]
 

If the empire dwellers yell and scream loud enough on the forums CCP has shown time and time again they will strike a balance

Tista
Posted - 2007.04.24 08:28:00 - [72]
 

i suggest chribba jump-clones to 0.4 and does some pirating then jump-clones back to his dread and takes them all on:)

The Slayette
Posted - 2007.04.24 08:45:00 - [73]
 

I'm not too bothered about the illegality of the act, if its not allowed fair enough. I just wish that the GM had just said "naughty naughty" instead of handing down an official warning and temp ban on an issue where there is so much confusion.

SN3263827
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.04.24 15:34:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: The Slayette
I just wish that the GM had just said "naughty naughty" instead of handing down an official warning and temp ban on an issue where there is so much confusion.
Exactly. I have messages from both a GM and a Senior GM both saying it is OK to evade or destroy the police to move through hi-sec, and that engaging war targets or defending yourself against aggressors while there is also OK.

Why the ban for something even the GMs can't even agree is an exploit?

WredStorm
Posted - 2007.04.24 17:25:00 - [75]
 

As a complete carebear, I have no problems at all with "pirates" (i.e.: someone with -5 or lower security standing) being able to enter high-security space. I know they can't attack me without getting Concordiconked very shortly thereafter.

Can they still suicide gank me (or others)? Sure... that is all part of high-security simply being "high-security" and not "guaranteed security". I still think some aspects of suicide ganking need to be fixed -- most notably the fact that insurance is paid out to the gankers even when Concord is the one destroying their ship -- but I'd not want to see the potential for suicide ganking to be eliminated completely.

If you want safety, fly bigger ships or ones with better tanks that can last longer against the gankers (and thus require more gankers to be organized and working together in order to take you down).

Wred

The Slayette
Posted - 2007.04.24 18:59:00 - [76]
 

Another GM on the case now, hopefully get this sorted soon :(

My three day ban is nearly over, but i've lost three days of skill training and have that big horrible "EXPLOITER" mark on my account still :(

IRS Informant
Income Redistribution Service
Posted - 2007.04.24 19:05:00 - [77]
 

I'm still somewhat confused as to why CCP (or at least some CCP staff) would consider pirates in hi-sec being an exploit.. The only thing a -5 can do in hi-sec that nobody else can do is inherently blink red.. That's it.. You're still held to the same Concord hi-sec attack rules.. If anything, you're more vulnerable in hi-sec, since you can't shoot first and everybody can attack you.. It just makes no sense how this could be an exploit..

SN3263827
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.04.24 19:07:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: WredStorm
Can they still suicide gank me (or others)? Sure...
Hey Wred, haven't seen you about in a while YARRRR!!

Just to clarify - we don't suicide gank. We went to hi-sec purely to pursue war targets.

Whoozyer Daddy
Posted - 2007.04.24 19:32:00 - [79]
 

I see in this thread that people say -10 can sit at a gate in 1.0 unmolested...

Likely very true, once they kill the gate cops, if CONCORD does not show up to autoPWN them.

You say that, should 10 of them do this, they're 10 individuals and you can engage them freely, one at a time, and only that one can shoot back at you.

Well, this would be true, under most circumstances... except 1. If they're allies and you try to pick 1 of them off, all 10 will BBQ you without CONCORD involvment.

If they're in the same corp (perhaps alliance) and you initiate combat against 1 you get hostile flag to all 10 and, well, you know the results of that...

SN3263827
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.04.24 19:47:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Whoozyer Daddy
If they're in the same corp (perhaps alliance) and you initiate combat against 1 you get hostile flag to all 10 and, well, you know the results of that...
No offense, but that's absolute rubbish.

SN3263827
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.04.24 20:55:00 - [81]
 

OK, so my petition asking for clarification of what is and is not considered an exploit was escalated to a senior GM (without my request, not that I'm complaining).

The result is that I have been told in no uncertain terms that entering high security space and killing the police is NOT an exploit. The only thing considered an exploit is entering high security space, committing a criminal act and then escaping to low sec without losing your ship to concord.

Defending yourself is always permitted, and attacking Concord-sanctioned war targets is always permitted.

The only question remains is why The Slayette's main was banned, considering everything he did has been unequivocally sanctioned by a Senior GM.

Ridley Tree
Veto.
Posted - 2007.04.24 21:22:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Janu Hull
While I understand and respect your opinion, the simple fact is, CCP is making it clear through their actions and reactions that while PvP is a central focus to the game, there are places they don't want people doing it except when someone is being genuinely stupid and fully deserving of it. Period.


Yeah maybe you're not quite getting this yet, but so far the GM vote is 2 for and 1 against Pirates going into Hi-Sec. And that is the problem.

SN3263827
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.04.24 21:30:00 - [83]
 

I've linked the Senior GM I was speaking to to this thread and he's reviewing the situation.

No-one should try entering hi-sec in the manner described until further notice.

WredStorm
Posted - 2007.04.25 16:16:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: SN3263827
Originally by: WredStorm
Can they still suicide gank me (or others)? Sure...
Hey Wred, haven't seen you about in a while YARRRR!!

Just to clarify - we don't suicide gank. We went to hi-sec purely to pursue war targets.

Yeah, took me a little while to fully recover from the financial setback our last "encounter" caused me. :)

I actually popped back into Otasasai for the first time since that encounter last night, after carefully scouting the area and also making sure no Black Rabbits were around... the price someone was offering to pay for some items I had was simply too good to pass up. :)

Wred

SN3263827
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.04.26 22:59:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: WredStorm
Yeah, took me a little while to fully recover from the financial setback our last "encounter" caused me. :)
Not too long I hope :)

Anyway, got final word from GM Guard today that the faction police are supposed to re-aggress when they respawn and the fact that they don't is a bug.

Which leads us to the conclusion that exploiting that bug is naughty, so no more trips to New Caldari for me.

I still have a couple of queries outstanding but I hope to have them cleared up soon.

Oh, and The Slayette's main was unwarned and unbanned on the grounds that he couldn't know it was an exploit or something.

Ben Rumsom
Posted - 2007.12.20 03:56:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: IRS Informant
I'm still somewhat confused as to why CCP (or at least some CCP staff) would consider pirates in hi-sec being an exploit.. The only thing a -5 can do in hi-sec that nobody else can do is inherently blink red.. That's it.. You're still held to the same Concord hi-sec attack rules.. If anything, you're more vulnerable in hi-sec, since you can't shoot first and everybody can attack you.. It just makes no sense how this could be an exploit..


I shouldn't even answer because if you don't get it. You just never will. It is that obvious.

Hi-Sec pirates lose nothing. They have found an exploit around "Hi-Sec" space by creating a second sacrifical account. It just needs to be strong enough to pop your ship. He even gets the insurance money for taking on the intersteller cops!! All you have to do is wait around for a big fat juicy target and pop it, then pick up the leftovers with your real account. You should have lots of juicy newbie targets around that can't afford the loss in Hi-Sec (or should I say lack of) space. It's an exploit, calling it anything else is just...an excuse. If you don't call it an exploit and actually do something about it, then why even have Hi-sec space? Let's just get rid of it and quit playing word games.

techzer0
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.12.20 04:21:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: techzer0 on 20/12/2007 04:25:33
Originally by: SN3263827
Edited by: SN3263827 on 21/04/2007 19:24:35
Originally by: Sean Dillon
There is no way for you to escape, when an outlaw enters high secure custom officials will always spawn and respawn when they die.
Click here for proof you are wrong.

I am not making this stuff up.
I'm training more drone skills now Very Happy

Nevermind... just got to the part where it's now counted as an exploit... imba game mechanics ftl Mad

Ulstan
Posted - 2007.12.20 04:41:00 - [88]
 

You guys realize that having low faction standings has nothing to do with being a pirate, right?

Skooba Steve
Posted - 2007.12.20 06:06:00 - [89]
 

You guys realize this thread is seven months old, right?

Move along, nothing to see here.....

SN3263827
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.12.20 13:32:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: techzer0
I'm training more drone skills now Very Happy

Nevermind... just got to the part where it's now counted as an exploit... imba game mechanics ftl Mad


The Police got fixed (and buffed) shortly after this thread (about 6 months ago). entering/traveling through high sec in anything bigger than a frigate is now extremely difficult.


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only