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Denuo Secus
Posted - 2007.04.19 08:58:00 - [1]
 

Hi all,

I have a question about shield tanks. I've read a lot about it in this forum and I prefer a passive shild tank fitting because of it's simpleness and elegance Very Happy

BUT ... can anyone tell me some experiences about one particular aspect of this two shield tank settings: strength!

Can a passive shield tank ever be such strong (or stronger) as an active shield tank?

Please consider: I fly gallente ships - they have not as much mid slots as a pure shild tanking ship like the "Drake" for instance. One advantage of an passive shield tank is IMO it's benefit from low slots!

Thank you
-- Secus

Caldari Online
Posted - 2007.04.19 09:16:00 - [2]
 

paswsive shield tanks can be very strong


the mrym and ishtar can passive tank pretty well

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.04.19 09:55:00 - [3]
 

Battlecruisers (and command ships) can have insane passive shieldtanks, regardless of race (yes, even Amarr, but you have big CPU issues while fiting).
A handfull of frigates and some cruisers can also have stronger passive shieldtanks (for their size) compared to active ones, but overall you should go for active ones instead (if not for anything else, then for extra slots available for tackling gear and/or damage mods).
From the battleships, only the Rattlesnake (and to a much lesser degree a Machariel) can sport decent passive tanks, but both have (potentially) better active tanks.
All the rest, active tanks.

Marquis Dean
Caldari
Indigo Fade
Posted - 2007.04.19 09:59:00 - [4]
 

The slot layout on some ships allows for an effective passive tank, e.g: Domis and Myrms with alot of lowslots.

They are mostly popular because they are user-maintainence-free, and fairly nos-resistant, with nos being a huge aspect of PvP these days.



Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2007.04.19 11:39:00 - [5]
 

The Domi also makes a great passive tank and even the Gallente Stealth bomber can be tanked.




“From the battleships, only the Rattlesnake (and to a much lesser degree a Machariel) can sport decent passive tanks, but both have (potentially) better active tanks.”
The Gallente domi can break over 1000dps tankeable. Pretty sure the other Gallente battleships can get high dps tankable.

Tamoko
Damage Unlimited Inc
Posted - 2007.04.19 12:44:00 - [6]
 

If Pottsey says it's so, it might as well be law. Read Her guide... it's fantastic.

Caldari Online
Posted - 2007.04.19 12:54:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
The Domi also makes a great passive tank and even the Gallente Stealth bomber can be tanked.




“From the battleships, only the Rattlesnake (and to a much lesser degree a Machariel) can sport decent passive tanks, but both have (potentially) better active tanks.”
The Gallente domi can break over 1000dps tankeable. Pretty sure the other Gallente battleships can get high dps tankable.



i have never really been able to passive tank a domi that well

any suggested setups?


i tried 7x SPR T2. 2x invul t2. 3x extender. but that gives me some 500dps average which isnt worth it over active imo

DarkElf
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.04.19 13:03:00 - [8]
 

to answer ur question yes passive tanks can often be stronger than active tanks because you're essentially using your mid and low slots to tank instead of 1 or the other. the eos and ishtar can both fit monster passive shield tanks for example.


DE



Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.04.19 13:59:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
“From the battleships, only the Rattlesnake (and to a much lesser degree a Machariel) can sport decent passive tanks, but both have (potentially) better active tanks.”
The Gallente domi can break over 1000dps tankeable. Pretty sure the other Gallente battleships can get high dps tankable.

All battleships have the same base shield recharge TIME, namely 2500 seconds. That's about half an hour with max skills and recharge implant, or precisely 15 minutes and 12 seconds with Purger I rigs, -5% gnome recharge time implant and L5 in shield op. Also, capacitor recharge rates (for the ones mentioned: Rattle, Domi and Mach) are identical. Not cap recharge times, cap recharge rates.


I'm not debating wether you can hit a 1000 dps passive shieldtank on a battleship (which to be honest isn't that impressive anymore these days, meh), I'm merely debating wether you *can* be better off with an active tank instead (monetary issues aside), freeing up a lot more slots in the process.

A passive tank CAN NOT be significantly improved by "throwing more money at it", the only thing you can do is get T2 rigs instead of T1s... and that's still not much of an improvement (+21.3629% to tankable DPS)... while an active tank can really throw a LOT of money at the ship and voila, get insanely high tankable DPS (think Crystal implant set, Gist/Pith X-Type boosters, officer PDUs), obtaining an increase in tankable DPS by a huge factor (think triple or more) compared to a classic full T2 fiting.


A Dominix and a Machariel have identical slot layouts (7 lows, 5 mids), and the Machariel has 4266 extra base shield (so +78% compared to the 5496 from Dominix, or think of it as 1.6+ free large T2 extenders).
Clearly, the Dominix gets the shorter end of the stick here, with all of Machariel's typical weapons being capless (projectiles, missiles, drones).
Sure, Dominix gets to field the NOSDomi setup (or even NOSDomi with blasters), so it's not that much of a difference.

A Rattlesnake has 6 lows and 6 mids with a 12750 base shield HP (in other words almost 132% more as a Dominix), and that extra shield buffer is the same as if you had 2.76 "free" LSE2s already installed. You also use mainly capless weapons (torps/cruise), so you can go with a SPR-heavy setup too. While the Domi can field an extra SPR or PDU, the Rattle can easily field an extra hardner or extender, so overall the Rattlesnake's passive tank is lightyears ahead. Not only that, but it's a lot easier to fit (100 extra base CPU compared to a Dominix).

And even so, simply slapping a Rattlesnake with wads of pure ISK in form of billions worth of fitings can make it activetank godly in comparison to the passive tank it can get.

WredStorm
Posted - 2007.04.19 14:07:00 - [10]
 

Check the link in my signature for a comparison of a passive shield tanked Myrmidon vs. an armor tanked one. For mission running/PvE the passive shield tank is incredible. I just ran Guristas Extravaganza level 4 last night without any problems at all in my passive shield tanked Myrmidon. I'm happy with it. :)

Wred

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2007.04.19 18:20:00 - [11]
 

”i tried 7x SPR T2. 2x invul t2. 3x extender. but that gives me some 500dps average which isnt worth it over active imo”
The two main shield implants help and having an alt or friend in a gang helps a lot, more so if you have a mindlink implant. Mindlink means 15% extra hitpoints which is a lot of extra regen. 2 passive or active hardeners make a stronger tank then 1 invul t2 and 1 extender. I assume 2 invul are better then 2 passive but wont that give you cap problems? Purger rigs are a must with T1 rigs and everything else maxed you should be able to tank 1000dps ish.

Denuo Secus
Posted - 2007.04.19 21:35:00 - [12]
 

Thanks for your responses!

Concerning bigger ships (a rather theoretical question Wink): what is with capital ships?? Is a passive shield tanked dreadnought (for instance) thinkable? Or is that to say: "BC are the best passive shield tanks, BS partially - and above ... use an active shield tank" ... ?

And I have another question about shield hardeners. Is it better to use one mid slot for a hardener or is it better to ignore the shield resistances and use just another shield extender on this slot instead.

Thanks again,
-- Secus

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2007.04.19 21:39:00 - [13]
 

Capital ships can be passive tanked but its not recommended. The only type of tank that works is a hitpoint tank. Fit lots of extenders and PDS for a high hitpoint pool.

As for is it better to use resistance modules or another extender. It depends on the ship, the enemy facing and what other modules are fitted. Some people even go for shield rechargers to free up Powergrid.

Denuo Secus
Posted - 2007.04.19 21:50:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
... but its not recommended ...


But why? To slow base shield recharge rate?

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2007.04.19 21:56:00 - [15]
 

Hitpoint regen is very low worse then a battleship and shield relays hurt cap which is not good when you need a jump drive to move around. If you never plan to jump out a system or are ok waiting hours to jump then you can use relays but what if your enemy arrive in the system and out number you?

Denuo Secus
Posted - 2007.04.19 22:04:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Denuo Secus on 19/04/2007 22:06:13
Ok, I understand...

But it's a pity. I wish I could use passive shield tanks with all ship classes in a effective way! I just like homogeneity Wink


 

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