open All Channels
seplocked Ships and Modules
blankseplocked 425's on a Rokh??
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Xin Wen
Posted - 2007.04.18 17:07:00 - [1]
 

I finally got my Rokh fitted with 425 railguns and I must say, they are awful. I can't bring down a 725k BS before I have to warp out. I had a Raven fitted with Cruise and Seige and was able to take out 2.5 million BS's after clearing a whole level of Lvl 4 missions. It just seems like the rails aren't nearly as effective. My hit points vary from hitting nothing to around 110 max with the rails. Is it just that I don't have the right setup and skills? What is the usual hit rate with 425's? My setup is below. Granted, I realize I must have something wrong since people obviously like using the 425's, but I have no idea how to get a better hit rate. Thanks in advance for any advice.

High -
(4) 425MM prototype Gauss Rails
(2) 350MM prototype Gauss Rails
(2) Arb Seige

Medium -
(1) Optical Tracking Computer 1
(1) Cap recharger
(1) Target painter
(1) Invulner field
(1) XLrg Shield Booster
(1) Shield Boost Amplifier

Low -
(3) Power Diag System II
(1) Ballistic Control System
(1) Fouriur Tracking Program


Idara
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Posted - 2007.04.18 17:11:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Idara on 18/04/2007 17:08:03
The Rokh doesn't have the greatest turret related DPS because it lacks any kind of damage bonus. But if you swap that Ballistic Control for a Magnetic Field Stabilizer you'll help your damage out a little more than boosting those Siege launchers.

You should be able to fit a full rack of 425mm's as well with that many power diagnostics.

I think a mission fit with a good tank and 350mm railguns is best because you might be able to drop some PDUs for extra Mag Field Stabs.

But I've never bought a Rokh on TQ so...

CptEagle
Gallente
Genius Inc.
Posted - 2007.04.18 17:12:00 - [3]
 

BCU for the 2 launchers?
Swap for mag stab II

Amuko
Amarr
Reverentia
Illuminati.
Posted - 2007.04.18 17:14:00 - [4]
 

Missiles are just better for ratting/missions, sad fact, but guns get a lot better then their tech I variants when you get to tech II, oh, and you're using a damage mod for missiles, but you only got two launchers, might want to try a damage mod for hybrid gunsSmile


I'd try 350mms in highs (a bit less damage, but better tracking)
mids: xl booster, boost amp, invul field, two hardeners, and maybe a cap recharger
lows: 2 mag stabs, 3 pdus

Just FYI, I don't do missions, so I've no idea if this would work, but think It'd be a bit better.

Xin Wen
Posted - 2007.04.18 17:19:00 - [5]
 

Thanks a lot for all of the advice. I am going to go with the Mag Stabs and see if that helps. I would take the Seiges off but they do by far the most damage it seems to me. Ugh, I might have to get another Raven, I just wanted to try something new. Thanks again.

Marquis Dean
Caldari
Indigo Fade
Posted - 2007.04.18 17:36:00 - [6]
 

Go all 425s, and have at least 2 MagStabs. If you're going to use launchers, you may as well use a Raven.

CptEagle
Gallente
Genius Inc.
Posted - 2007.04.18 17:48:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Xin Wen
Thanks a lot for all of the advice. I am going to go with the Mag Stabs and see if that helps. I would take the Seiges off but they do by far the most damage it seems to me. Ugh, I might have to get another Raven, I just wanted to try something new. Thanks again.

Missiles only need the button pressed. For turrets you can do alot more. You can maneuvre you're ship to decrease transversal velocity of the target, so the turret can track better, which will improve hit ratio. And are you taking into accaunt that siege bays have a much higher RoF, so oviously their damage per hit is much higher. Also guns can make wrecking hits which are nice for the variaty.

I used a Raven much a long time ago, cause I didnt have any skills (in both ways), then I got bored of it and started using turrets. Its so much more fun/less boring. But yea, it requires more skills.

Idara
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Posted - 2007.04.18 18:15:00 - [8]
 

The whole thing about missiles for missions is that you just lock, fire and wait. You don't have to deal with any transversal velocity, or not being able to hit small stuff close in. That makes missiles so much easier for missions, turrets would do them faster because you get much better DPS usually, but it's the fact that that DPS can only be really counted on against the battleship and battlecruiser rats that makes turret ships second choices to a Raven/Nighthawk for missions.

Elspeth Vigneron
Caldari
Phoenix Logistics Industries
Posted - 2007.04.18 18:31:00 - [9]
 

If you're going to use a BCS, use all 4 launcher slots for your Rokh. Otherwise, work harder on pimping your guns, not your missiles. Also, are your gunnery skills as good as your missile skills? Because if they're not, you should expect a severe penalty for early implementation.

Shirazz
Amarr
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.04.18 18:32:00 - [10]
 

Out of interest are rohks any good at snipeing? What happened to the caldari online theory? And can anyone see my sig :(?

Benglada
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.04.18 18:39:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Shirazz
Out of interest are rohks any good at snipeing? What happened to the caldari online theory? And can anyone see my sig :(?


Yes,gone,no.

pandymen
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.04.18 18:45:00 - [12]
 

As has been mentioned in almost every thread about missiles vs. turrets, missiles are better with low skills. With 1 mil SP, missiles are about as good as guns with 3.5mil. After that, guns surpass missiles, esp in pvp.

Elspeth Vigneron
Caldari
Phoenix Logistics Industries
Posted - 2007.04.18 19:06:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: pandymen
As has been mentioned in almost every thread about missiles vs. turrets, missiles are better with low skills. With 1 mil SP, missiles are about as good as guns with 3.5mil. After that, guns surpass missiles, esp in pvp.


Truth. Takes huge skillpoints, compared to missiles, to get any good with gunnery. This character is the ALT, four months younger than the Gallente, and she rocks with missiles and can out-mission-run him every day of the week.

And he's got some serious drone skills (on the way to carrier pilot) and over a million points in gunnery just to take care of those annoying frigs and aggro swarms one group at a time with the one 425 mounted on his Domi...


Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.04.18 19:58:00 - [14]
 

Rokhs are NOT brutal damage dealers. I use one almost exclusively, and they're a red headed step-child to the Raven for simple damage dealing. A guy in my corp I pair off with more missions regularly embarasses me in a Megathron with comparable weapons.

I've mixed and matched various configurations and have come to the conclusion that the Rokh's best strengths are in the 50km+ range. I have used an 8x 425 Prototype arrangement, and I've hit with Antimatter beyond 100km. My first attempts at fitting a Rokh were based around speed, more speed, and LONG range ammo. Tungsten rounds hitting over 150km out with no module enhancement on a Rokh running full tilt boogie over 500m/s. It didn't work so well in the higher level missions that started you dead stopped 14-30km from a fleet full of pain, so I went to heavier ammo, shield tanking, and slow straight bulldog charging right at the heart of their damage dealers, using drones for anti-frigate duty. That's put me pretty much on top of L3, and useful, at least, in L4 groups. Soloing L4 is still a fantasy until I get tech 2 tanking abilities.

What the Rokh CAN do is clear the field long before most of your group is even in range, IF starting from a distance is an option. A fleet of a dozen frigates coming at me from 80+ kilometers away is never going to fire a shot at me, because I'll clear them out before I'm in their weapons range

In most cases, deadspaces and encounters tend to drop ships right into the thick of the mess, and that puts the Rokh and a horrible disadvantage. Point blank contact with enemies is the A #1 reason that missiles trump railguns at the battleship level. Where a Raven can thrive in the thick of a battle, the Rokh pilot's first instinct is to get as much distance between himself and his opponent as possible because 90% of his arsenal is plain worthless under 30km. For me, I came up guns from the get-go. I flew a Cormorant and laughed at people who couldn't do Worlds Collide, quick locks and the ability to get in close and slug like nobody's business made gunboats like a Cormorant, Merlin and Moa absolutely lethal in my hands.

Once I started flying a Ferox and a Rokh, things turned for the worse, and I came to understand why Missiles Uber Alles in PvE exists. Its sad, nowadays, I run 4x 425mm Prototypes, 3x XT-9000 Cruise launchers, and a Large Prototype NOS. I use a Tracking Computer II and a Tracking Enhancer II in the low slot, and a BCS II low slot. I've got my groove back, but I miss the roaring thunder of eight big guns lighting up the night.

The Rokh is a sniper in a world that likes fights at point blank range. Incredibly capable when it finds itself in the right spot, but really working without a right spot to stand on.

Namingway
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.04.19 01:47:00 - [15]
 

8x 425mm rails.

shield tank
1x rcu, 1x pdu
3x mag stab

If you don't have the DPS to break an NPC BS when using AM, then sell the ship.

Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.04.19 02:48:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Namingway
8x 425mm rails.

shield tank
1x rcu, 1x pdu
3x mag stab

If you don't have the DPS to break an NPC BS when using AM, then sell the ship.


I break battleships three at a time. I run the extra room in L3 extravaganzas solo. An L4 Worlds Collide with 4 battleships, eight to ten mixed dire cruisers and battlecruisers, and an armada of webbing frigates is a little much for a 3.3 million SP toon without access to Invulnerability Field IIs.

Really, hitting the big stuff isn't the problem, its being swarmed by the little stuff that gets a Rokh.

Morgaine Legray
Posted - 2007.04.19 03:15:00 - [17]
 

with skills rokh will out damage the raven. Turrets do more dps, just takes a lot of skills to match raven.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2007.04.19 04:30:00 - [18]
 

I run a rokh with 8 425s on missions sometimes and have very few problems.

Two thigns help - using it for the right mission. Missions like stop the theif, Zaz, Attack of the drones, Gone beserk, Damsel (missions where you can snipe) the Rokh works well. Up close and personal missions, WC, first room on AE, Vengence and the rokh isn't so great.

However and secondly, for up close stuff, two webber drones and a reduction in transversal velocity allows eight 425s with antimatter to do significant damage. If you can keep at range, one webber drone, one med drone and three scouts eats up frigs pretty well, enough for you to focus on the BBs and then the CGs once your webber is freed up from working the frigs.

Never tried a blaster rokh, but blasters and webber drones would probably work well, so long as you have evasive maunevring high enough to not impersonate a brick.

Namihasu
Caldari
The Order of Black Knights
SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE
Posted - 2007.04.19 05:41:00 - [19]
 

I only use a rokh for running missions. I used to use a raven but i like the rokh better. The set up I use is 8 T2 425mm. 3/4 large extenders, 1/2 hardeners<depends on the mission> domination AB. 3 T2 PDU, 2 T2 MFS. 2 shield recharge rigs and one hybrid dmg rig. hits 50km with AM 100km with lead. does more than enough dps to kill any rat even the 2.5 mil guy in vengance and tanks better than my raven. using the AB you can keep range and avoid a lot of damage from turret rats while being well within you own optimal. and its more fun that warping in and activating your launchers ugh

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.04.19 06:23:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Namingway
8x 425mm rails.

shield tank
1x rcu, 1x pdu
3x mag stab

If you don't have the DPS to break an NPC BS when using AM, then sell the ship.


I break battleships three at a time. I run the extra room in L3 extravaganzas solo. An L4 Worlds Collide with 4 battleships, eight to ten mixed dire cruisers and battlecruisers, and an armada of webbing frigates is a little much for a 3.3 million SP toon without access to Invulnerability Field IIs.

Really, hitting the big stuff isn't the problem, its being swarmed by the little stuff that gets a Rokh.


T2 drones for the little guys?

IceAero
Amarr
Shadow Company
Posted - 2007.04.19 16:06:00 - [21]
 

The Rokh is not a ship for starters...

Don't have T2 large hybrids? then you're going to pay 15m per 425mm rail for best named...it's a ripoff because they still suck.

A T2 rokh can throw out almost 400dps at 230km+...that's kinda nuts 'eh?
OR with some blasters, it pushes 750dps at 30km, also pushing the 'insane' mark..

With T1 stuff it simply fails at EvE =(

Using T2 large hybrids takes...3 months? (starting without small at V) I guess it depends on your implants.

But DO IT...then you are not only a great rokh/vulture/eagle/ferox pilot, but your only weeks away from being pretty damn good at gallente too :)

Rant = over.

Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.04.19 16:08:00 - [22]
 

I'm working on it. I'm working on Drone Interfacing now, should have DI 3 by tonight. That was a while back, I'm a little over 4 million SP now. My first L4 attempts were almost completely lacking in Tech II support modules. Haven't had the inclination to try again until I can actually afford to risk the Rokh and pay for rebuilding it if I screw up.

Kloro Draz
Gallente
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2007.04.19 17:19:00 - [23]
 

The other thing is transversal velocity. If you're used to throwing missiles, you might not even have it up on your overview. You want to make it as low as possible.

slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2007.04.19 17:46:00 - [24]
 

i used to use a megathron with 7x 350mm protos, combined with armour tank i could do most lvl 4 missions solo, as long i was careful.

First rule of fitting - use same guns (though some people dont i much prefer)

350mm guns will be better for you as tracking better than 425mm and youll find damage better with them, throw a couple magnetic field stabs in lows.



James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2007.04.19 18:02:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Morgaine Legray
with skills rokh will out damage the raven. Turrets do more dps, just takes a lot of skills to match raven.


Are you sure? Neglecting drones, I make a Rokh maxing out at 510 dps, or 594 with Javelin

Where a T2 raven tops out at 621 or 746 with T2 torps.

Now, that's not to say the Rokh's bad, since it'll do instant damage at long range, but ...

Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.04.19 19:15:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Kloro Draz
The other thing is transversal velocity. If you're used to throwing missiles, you might not even have it up on your overview. You want to make it as low as possible.


I use radial velocity to track targets because my weapon's ability to follow is listed in radians. Same difference, just easier to keep in mind your weapon's effective radian tracking speed and eyeball it in the overview.

Morgaine Legray
Posted - 2007.04.19 19:41:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Morgaine Legray on 19/04/2007 19:42:31
well there is your problem, your comparing a torp raven to a rail rokh. Torps are more similar to blasters. You fit a blaster rokh and you can max out at 1000 dps. If you fit a rail rokh, you will max out at around 700 dps. For missions, the rail rokh would be better, and with the skills like that, you will tear through your enemies tank, no question. Just takes a massive amount of skills. Raven is definatly better mission running ship though, can change damage, and does max damage at max range.

Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.04.19 20:08:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Morgaine Legray
Edited by: Morgaine Legray on 19/04/2007 19:42:31
well there is your problem, your comparing a torp raven to a rail rokh. Torps are more similar to blasters. You fit a blaster rokh and you can max out at 1000 dps. If you fit a rail rokh, you will max out at around 700 dps. For missions, the rail rokh would be better, and with the skills like that, you will tear through your enemies tank, no question. Just takes a massive amount of skills. Raven is definatly better mission running ship though, can change damage, and does max damage at max range.


No minimum range, guaranteed hit once locked. Can change to ammo types that can fire through jamming...

Not to shift subjects, but missiles seem to be a little whacked in their all advantage, no disadvantage arrangement.

The RepoMan
Caldari
Red Horizon Inc
Red Horizon
Posted - 2007.04.19 20:53:00 - [29]
 

Wow, just, wow. This thread has setups that honestly almost bring a tear to my eye. I mean seriously, how the hell did you guys manage to make it this far. bcus on gunships, invulns on a mission runner, tracking mods on a ship with a goddamn RANGE bonus, I mean seriously people wtf stop drinking the stuff under the sink.

I mean lets use common sence here, you want a rack of 425s, so the setup is obviously going to start with a rack of 425s

8x 425mm gauss, or t2 if you have the skills

next you need to capitalize on the rokh's main bonus, which is the obscene tank, the base tank for any shield tanking bs is xl + 3 hards, so you fit

8x 425mm gauss, or t2 if you have the skills
X-Large Shield booster, t2 if possible
3 Hards, t2 not really a big deal but whatever it's your money.

At this point you're probably at the negative in powergrid, but not by much, so this is a point where a pdu (or preferably pdu II) would shine, 2 should be more than enough. So now we have:

8x 425mm gauss, or t2 if you have the skills
X-Large Shield booster, t2 if possible
3 Hards, t2 not really a big deal but whatever it's your money.
2x PDUII

Now of course the main weakness of the rokh vs other bs's is lack of damage, we have 3 lows left and plenty of cpu to go around, so you can either fit 3 magstabIIs, or as myself and most people prefer, good named or t2 dc and 2 magstabs, should be more than enough to eat anything they throw at you. So now we have:


8x 425mm gauss, or t2 if you have the skills

1x X-Large Shield booster II
3x Hards

2x PDUII
1x Damage Control II
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizers II

But we still have 2 mids left over, in which you can place whatever the hell you want, it's up to you, you're probably going to want cap rechargers since 8 guns firing AM is a very very evil thing, but whatever if you want to fit some screwy mods this is the place to do it.

Then of course you can rig it if you want to, once again, whatever it's up to you, you cant really screw up this ship in general. But god knows some people still try.

Morgaine Legray
Posted - 2007.04.19 21:27:00 - [30]
 

missles draw back is their low dps and their travel time. In large battles, you will hate the travel time because by the time your missles get their the primary is dead.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only