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blankseplocked Salvaging other peoples wrecks needs to be a criminal act !!!!!!!
 
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Sslinger
Solar Nexus.
Posted - 2008.02.04 20:11:00 - [241]
 


Well you can believe that if CCP makes changes to flag wrecks...i will certainly start salvaging.

My bet is that I will certainly be able to defend myself...lol and maybe get me some faction loot out of the deal as well..Yarr




syphurous
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2008.02.04 21:00:00 - [242]
 

The moment CCP flags salvaging I'll be selling my services to pirates who want to find mission runners. Dodixie, have fun o/

katana78
Posted - 2008.02.04 21:06:00 - [243]
 

hei we have a biggg problem, we do mission all the time in motsu and other systems, and now are somme people that scaning and comin in to the mision and salvage the werks,
we can do any thing to defend our work..
1 becouse salvagin others werks dont giv agression,
2 becouse we are not in shipsEvil or Very MadughQuestion that is fitted to pvp.

and wen this happen in low sec it is whorse, they kill you...

and there for agentes close to low level people dont wont to have .

the big problem is that they can commin in to a mision perimeter,,

are you willing to made somthing about it ?


tkx very much.

katana78
Posted - 2008.02.04 21:07:00 - [244]
 

Please do not discuss GM correspondence on the forums - Mitnal

syphurous
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2008.02.04 21:09:00 - [245]
 

Ok,.... This one will get modded too,...

katana78
Posted - 2008.02.04 21:20:00 - [246]
 

all werks and loot and bounty in MY MISSION belong to me....it is mi time mi agente mi mission mi skills that made thet werk in the space posible..

and you are a lazy tief , that cant made your own work..

and abuse of a bad rules on the system y realy look fordwar that CCP do somthing about ...
at last give me thae chance to figth back those lazy tief...Razz

Sslinger
Solar Nexus.
Posted - 2008.02.04 21:27:00 - [247]
 


Leave some loot in the wrecks and I will give you a chance to defend it...free of charge

Motsu you said?

syphurous
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2008.02.04 21:35:00 - [248]
 

So lazy, I spent time and effort setting myself up, generating bookmarks, and using a tiny ship to race from wreck to wreck in mission dead spaces.

Your, right I dont need to even be at the keyboard to do that. Oh wait, yes I do. Its when I'm running missions in my BS that I can go AFK.

If I happen to find you in a mission, tell you what, I'll steal some loot so you can shoot at me.

Ulstan
Posted - 2008.02.04 21:58:00 - [249]
 

The salvage doesn't belong to you, it belongs to whoever salvages the wreck. You haven't done anything to earn it, why should it be yours?

Your reward for blowing up the ship is the bounty and the loot inside. The wreck is a separate entity which, when salvaged, yields an additional separate reward. It's no different than a gravimetric exploration site. Sure you may have *found* it and spawned it, but anyone can enter and mine the asteroids there.

Salvage yourself as you go along, bring a corpmate/alt to salvage as you go, or move to a less populated missioning area.

Salvaging as a profession has a long and rich history, both in real life and in science fiction.

katana78
Posted - 2008.02.04 22:30:00 - [250]
 

your days certainly will have a end you slacking people whithout imagination that have to steal to get some isk ..
why if you are soooo cool dont go to 0.0 where you can get a response ??? you are corwards and slack.


and i will opend a petiotion for harassment. clear prov in this foro..

get a live ... Cool

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2008.02.04 22:33:00 - [251]
 

Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 04/02/2008 22:33:58
Originally by: katana78
your days certainly will have a end you slacking people whithout imagination that have to steal to get some isk ..
why if you are soooo cool dont go to 0.0 where you can get a response ??? you are corwards and slack.


and i will opend a petiotion for harassment. clear prov in this foro..

get a live ... Cool


Please stop, you are giving us carebears a bad reputation....

CCP has already stated many times that this is intended mechanics. There are several link in this very thread.

Mad Crafter
Valor Inc.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2008.02.04 23:18:00 - [252]
 

All these post winning about mission invasion make me want to go give it a try.

Oldin Kinrod
Posted - 2008.02.04 23:19:00 - [253]
 

That's strange, because wrecks have no ownership. Check out the knowledgebase for more info on who is allowed to salvage wrecks.

Quote:
If I cant attack him without getting concorded this is plain stupid and has NOTHING to do with pvp-orientated.


Yes it is, the oither player beat you to the wreck and salvaged it first.

As has been said many times across the board, there are ways to cut down the frequency of people "intruding" your missions. One of them is getting out of the mission hubs.

Goyda
Ignis et Ultio
Posted - 2008.02.04 23:35:00 - [254]
 

*looks at the dead horse everyone has been kicking*

*sigh*


Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
Posted - 2008.02.05 09:51:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
The system is broke, it needs fixed, period.


A compelling argument. I particularly liked the part where it was backed up with no reasoning or logic.

Well done.

Connor Banks
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.02.05 10:20:00 - [256]
 

Edited by: Connor Banks on 05/02/2008 10:21:16
A salvage thief entered my mission the other day. My response was to blow up all the wrecks so that the thief wouldnt get any money from my mission.

However, the thief managed to salvage a few wrecks. Some of the wrecks droped loot. Because i was a bit lazy and i didnt want to stick around and wait for the thief to perhaps loot my cans i decided to blow up my cans to. Now, one of the cans (as white as the other cans in the overwiev) triggered a pop-up window where it said that me shooting that can would be an aggressive act. How the fukk is that possible?! I thought that white cans are MINE and yellow cans are SOMEONE ELSEs.

The only conclusion i draw from this is that the thief put some of his stuff in my can. In my oppinion, that should be an aggressive act. Even more, i also believe by opening a can to check whats inside should be an aggressive act. I.e. if you want to peek inside you have to pay the price! Wink

All in all, i dont mind ninja salvaging. But i do mind the above! Shouldnt i be allowed to blow up my stuff?!?!?

/Connor







Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
Posted - 2008.02.05 11:00:00 - [257]
 

Could it have been a can with mission specific loot in? Otherwise I'd bug report it or get Gm clarification as to what happens if someone tries to put something of their's in your can.

Sounds like a bug or something that needs fixing to me. Looking in can shouldn't flag another player, that is just a silly idea. But another player (outside of your corp)shouldn't be able to put their possessions in your can either.

Of course, if we didn't have the stupid can flagging system in the first place this wouldn't be a problem.

Connor Banks
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.02.05 12:58:00 - [258]
 

Edited by: Connor Banks on 05/02/2008 12:59:00
Aah, thanks for the answer Very Happy. That salvage thief was indeed a member of SWA, as am I.

Hmm...i still dont like that someone else should be able to put stuff in your can, corp member or not. In my oppinion, cans are personal and by default no one but the owner should be able to put stuff in there.

Perhaps modifying the can template to include settings so that the owner can decide who can and who cannot put stuff in your can (for example: no one, gang, corp, all) is something for CCP to consider?

/Connor

Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
Posted - 2008.02.05 13:08:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Connor Banks
Hmm...i still dont like that someone else should be able to put stuff in your can, corp member or not. In my oppinion, cans are personal and by default no one but the owner should be able to put stuff in there.


It's great that you have that opinion, but once you join a real corp rather than an NPC corp you'll realise it is not really necessary to view cans that way. Which is my advice to you, join a real corp where you can trust your fellow corpmates, rather than be in an NPC corp where no one owes you any loyalties.

Originally by: Connor Banks
Perhaps modifying the can template to include settings so that the owner can decide who can and who cannot put stuff in your can (for example: no one, gang, corp, all) is something for CCP to consider?


To be fair, that is not a terrible idea, though frankly any changes that make it more comfortable for people to stay in NPC corps I don't welcome. Far better to encourage players out of those corps and into player corporations where such precautions are not necessary.

Bob Stuart
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
Posted - 2008.02.05 13:43:00 - [260]
 

Edited by: Bob Stuart on 05/02/2008 13:43:45
How to do missions without running into salvage "thieves"?

Group up. 3 people can do a mission in less than 1/4 the time it would take for 1 person to do it. This reduces the time spent in mission, reducing the time that your mission can be found.
Similarly, group salvaging operation allows rapid cleanup.
It's more profitable and more fun as well.

Consider, I know people that do missions all day in busy places like Dodixie, and not encounter salvage "thieves", because they group up and get it done quickly.

Besides all this, the value of salvage is dropping. Melted cap consoles used to be 600k+ a couple months ago. Now, in the same place, it's 275k that they are selling for. Those trends continue, and the salvage isn't going to be worth much, so even if it is "stolen", it's not going to be a big deal. Of course, if you're not interested in selling it, instead keeping it for rigs, then that means you have an industrial character in your corp, so why aren't they grouping with you?

Also, suppose the salvage is "yours", Fine. What steps are you taking to ensure that "your" property is safe? Any?

Also, taking from cans didn't use to cause flagging, people could find your missions and take the loot, without you being able to do anything. Now, you have flagging, and you can attack someone stealing, but in reality you're no better off, because someone stealing is doing so because it's a trap.
Salvage flagging would just be used to try to destroy your mission ship, you would not be any better off.

Also, Hi Syphurous, how's CAS these days?

Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
Posted - 2008.02.05 14:00:00 - [261]
 

Originally by: Bob Stuart
Edited by: Bob Stuart on 05/02/2008 13:43:45
How to do missions without running into salvage "thieves"?


Simple. You do missions in those systems where salvagers don't operate. It is only worth their while to operate in certain, high population, systems. While I wholly support your suggested approach, it takes even less effort to research what other agents you can easily gain access to (or may already have access to if your faction standings are high enough) and move to them.

Originally by: Bob Stuart
[Also, taking from cans didn't use to cause flagging, people could find your missions and take the loot, without you being able to do anything. Now, you have flagging, and you can attack someone stealing, but in reality you're no better off, because someone stealing is doing so because it's a trap.
Salvage flagging would just be used to try to destroy your mission ship, you would not be any better off.


Well said, QFT and all that jazz.

Flagging of wrecks would just mean we'd have "Can Flagging - The Next Whining Generation."

GM Faolchu


Game Masters
Posted - 2008.02.05 20:11:00 - [262]
 

This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.

Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.

Jessamine
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2008.02.05 21:04:00 - [263]
 

Edited by: Jessamine on 05/02/2008 21:06:02
Originally by: GM Faolchu
This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.

Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.


pwnt. Only thing better would be a GM reply of solely 'GTFO of Motsu'

Edit: Although by looking at the ops standing it should be 'GTFO of Dodixie'

Wish that had come 9 pages ago. Now we'll get another 9 pages of 'That's Bull!'

Rolling Eyes

Beness
Gallente
Deep Space Ventures
Posted - 2008.02.05 22:10:00 - [264]
 

Originally by: Jessamine
Edited by: Jessamine on 05/02/2008 21:06:02
Originally by: GM Faolchu
This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.

Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.


pwnt. Only thing better would be a GM reply of solely 'GTFO of Motsu'

Edit: Although by looking at the ops standing it should be 'GTFO of Dodixie'

Wish that had come 9 pages ago. Now we'll get another 9 pages of 'That's Bull!'

Rolling Eyes


"Moo!"

Or whatever it is the sound that a bull makes.

Can we now pay attention to relevant issues, like I get flagged when I take loot from a wreck generated by a gang mate if that mate happens to be docked?

Summersnow
Posted - 2008.02.05 22:30:00 - [265]
 

Originally by: GM Faolchu
This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.

Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.



but if I stumble across an abandoned can somewhere don't I get in trouble for looting it?

This seems counterintuitive.

Oldin Kinrod
Posted - 2008.02.05 23:18:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: Summersnow
but if I stumble across an abandoned can somewhere don't I get in trouble for looting it?

This seems counterintuitive.


Thank the miners for that one. There is a post somewhere on the forums where someone gives an in depth backstory of this, but the jist of it is:

1) Can flagging never used to be a mechanic - all cans were free game.
2) Miners realised the potential of mining into a jet can
3) Ore theives would steal the ore from miners
4) Miners whined on the forums asking for some way to be able to fight back in high sec (sound familiar?)
5) CCP introduced can flagging
6) Can flipping was born and is now commonly used to start fights with unsuspecting players.


Wet Ferret
Posted - 2008.02.06 00:17:00 - [267]
 

Originally by: Oldin Kinrod

1) Can flagging never used to be a mechanic - all cans were free game.
2) Miners realised the potential of mining into a jet can
3) Ore theives would steal the ore from miners
4) Miners whined on the forums asking for some way to be able to fight back in high sec (sound familiar?)
5) CCP forced can flagging instead of making it an option for those who want it
6) Can flipping was born and is now commonly used to start fights with unsuspecting players.




Fixed that for ya.

Righteous Deeds
Posted - 2008.02.06 01:56:00 - [268]
 

I don't think anyone doubts that it's an intentional game mechanic...what we're saying is it's one that is frustrating and makes no sense. The ownerless flotsam position isn't exactly consistent with the also intentional game mechanic of loot, for example.

We're all about "Eve is a PVP game" when justifying an aspect we like, and then we have a system like this, where one player can exploit the efforts of another completely without risk. "Eve is a harsh dangerous place...' unless you're a salvager. The logical inconsistencies are many and obvious.

Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2008.02.06 02:25:00 - [269]
 

Originally by: Righteous Deeds
I don't think anyone doubts that it's an intentional game mechanic...


Correction: nobody with much sense does, at least not once they've had the facts pointed out to them. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people without much sense, and you can see many examples of them denying that it's intentional in this very thread as well as others. (Hi Xaen! o/ )

Quote:
what we're saying is it's one that is frustrating and makes no sense.

The ownerless flotsam position isn't exactly consistent with the also intentional game mechanic of loot, for example.

We're all about "Eve is a PVP game" when justifying an aspect we like, and then we have a system like this, where one player can exploit the efforts of another completely without risk. "Eve is a harsh dangerous place...' unless you're a salvager. The logical inconsistencies are many and obvious.


Not so obvious that that everything you said hasn't been debated back and forth a hundred times before.

Anyway, to Features and Ideas with you! Shoo! SHOO! :P

Commander OTG
Solar Nexus.
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.02.06 04:04:00 - [270]
 


I have to admit that I am a tad bit sorry about the final decision. I am a whole hearted salvager. I do it as my primary source of income, but I have managed to do it with respect for my fellow players and it has been a benefit for myself and those that have let me salvage their wrecks.

This latest ruling allows every low life thief to swoop in and do their worst.

For the record, I have a nasty, mean and ruthless pirate character that I will be offering services to the mission runners. He is willing to lose his ship as often as necessary to prove a point to the thieves (destroying their salvage ships...probing ships and every implant i can possibly get a shot off at)


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