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Moonlight Express
Amarr
Moonlight Express Inc.
Posted - 2007.03.30 02:55:00 - [871]
 

Originally by: Asariasha
I think the most interesting part of todays battle was
the somehow extremly fast blocking of the POS system not
even concerning the numbers of combatants. So what happened
was that CCP lets coalition cap fleet jump in without support
and just closes the system while the major support fleet
is barred from the fight. So we had 700 in system. ~200-300 coalition
giving a rest of 400-500 BoB+allied while the insane
amount of estimated 500-700 other coalition fighters
are just not allowed to enter.

Tinfoil hat? Maybe, but the fairest decision of a GM
would have been to contact the FCs, ask for the numbers
each fleet has. Then just let 600 players move into that
system while concerning the apportionment of both fleets
in percentage.
This would have been a fair decision instead of just
excluding more than 60%! of the coalition forces.

With regards
Asa


LOL, or maybe GM can just move the whole 700 strong coalition fleet on top of BoB capital fleet, and while they are at it, maybe put all BoB guns offline, so that you can actually win a fight and kill something without getting totally owned in the process. How would that work for you? Would that be better?


IzzyChan
Caldari
Naqam
Shaktipat Revelators
Posted - 2007.03.30 02:55:00 - [872]
 

I had an awesome time today. \ ._. /

Esurnir
Amarr
Bears Inc
FREGE Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.30 02:56:00 - [873]
 

And guess what, today not a single node crashed afaik.

Kingdoc
Caldari
League of Gentlemen
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:00:00 - [874]
 

After reading this entire post I am reminded of one thing; Admiral Isoruku Yamamoto's famous quote after the attack on Pearl Harbor, "I'm afraid we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled it with terrible resolve,".


Esurnir
Amarr
Bears Inc
FREGE Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:00:00 - [875]
 

Originally by: Moonlight Express
...
Post with your main, coward.

Jammilia
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:01:00 - [876]
 

Posting with an unidentified alt in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, please be sure to have the "Show Corporation" and "Show Alliance" checkboxes ticked in your forum settings. - Karass Sayfo

Asariasha
Caldari
DEFCON.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:02:00 - [877]
 

Originally by: jamesw
...Would any of this have changed if the Coalition were to jump 500 more people into system?


Would a capital fleet survive longer with a support fleet behind them?

Yes, because without a supporting fleet the defending
party is able to directly engage the capitals.

Of course a node crash wouldn't have been a good thing
especially if you consider that usually node crashes
wherever they happen will take effect throughout the
whole EvE-Galaxy ^^
However, it would be just fair and more evenhanded if
GMs considered the amount of pilots in each fleet and
allowed to let them bring in each numbers in reference
to the overall numbers.

With regards
Asa


Gazelam
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:02:00 - [878]
 

Posting with an unidentified alt in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, please be sure to have the "Show Corporation" and "Show Alliance" checkboxes ticked in your forum settings. - Karass Sayfo

Count Rayken
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:02:00 - [879]
 

ohh, what this thread has been desintegrated into...

Pitiful.


Play the game, kill people, have a good time.




VinceNoir
Amarr
Shade.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:07:00 - [880]
 

Edited by: VinceNoir on 30/03/2007 03:06:08
Originally by: Asariasha
Originally by: jamesw
...Would any of this have changed if the Coalition were to jump 500 more people into system?


Would a capital fleet survive longer with a support fleet behind them?

Yes, because without a supporting fleet the defending
party is able to directly engage the capitals.

Of course a node crash wouldn't have been a good thing
especially if you consider that usually node crashes
wherever they happen will take effect throughout the
whole EvE-Galaxy ^^
However, it would be just fair and more evenhanded if
GMs considered the amount of pilots in each fleet and
allowed to let them bring in each numbers in reference
to the overall numbers.

With regards
Asa





Hey dude. Check this out. The text goes ALL the way across the screen, you don't have to constantly start new lines. No really, I'm doing it right now.

Aramark
Amarr
Omega Enterprises
0mega Factor
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:07:00 - [881]
 

GF all.
thanks to BoB and there friends for the epic battles we are having.
i see and read alot of whining. but everyone wants to pvp. well there is alot of pvp now so why can't we just enjoy it.

GF to all the reds on my overveiw. it's a game have fun.

ara out o/

jamesw
Gallente
Omniscient Order
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:08:00 - [882]
 

Originally by: Asariasha
Originally by: jamesw
...Would any of this have changed if the Coalition were to jump 500 more people into system?


Would a capital fleet survive longer with a support fleet behind them?

Yes, because without a supporting fleet the defending
party is able to directly engage the capitals.

Of course a node crash wouldn't have been a good thing
especially if you consider that usually node crashes
wherever they happen will take effect throughout the
whole EvE-Galaxy ^^
However, it would be just fair and more evenhanded if
GMs considered the amount of pilots in each fleet and
allowed to let them bring in each numbers in reference
to the overall numbers.

With regards
Asa




Yes the coalition cap fleet would have fared better with support. However if coalition support was in system, the node would have gone bye byes. From what I understand the BoB fleet in F-T was pretty much all capitals, with a few support for killing cynos. Their main support fleet was also 1 jump away.

The long and short of it is that the Coalition took on a very ballsy op to destroy a well defended target. Losses were always going to be huge. The node held thanks to support fleets staying clear, and both sides apparently got a satisfying outcome.


Orree
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:08:00 - [883]
 

Edited by: Orree on 30/03/2007 03:05:52
Originally by: Berneh
so who won in the end ?





I think anyone who read this thread or has posted in this thread lost.


30 pages of proof that this forum should just be nuked from orbit.

Fray
Caldari
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:10:00 - [884]
 

Originally by: Valtaer
What I want to know is if anyone was cynical enough to actually keep track of their time in jump queue's and whatnot??? No one? Oh wait.... I was.

1st Traffic Control SVM-3K Gate Time: 19:35:27
Time when SVM-3K loaded: 20:15:57

Jump Queue at O-HDC 20:17:08
Time when O-HDC loaded 20:39:40

Here's the sweet one... Started loading PUIG-F at 20:40
Finished... wait for it... 21:37

My hat's off to you... the patient... the mighty... the sheep

The way I would fix this problem: Ban capital ships, ban alliances, ban POS's Cool



Upstart, 2:40h hours, 8qt into SVM. :P 19:34 till I gave up and logged at 22:14.

Troubadour
Gallente
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:10:00 - [885]
 

Originally by: Euthanasia XXX
Originally by: Ferocious FeAr
Originally by: Troubadour
If it was BoB and friends losing 57ish capitals and killing a POS with a capital assembly array, everyone would be saying, "OMG BOD IS DED NOW!" Instead of debating whether or not there actually was a titan in production in the array. Even if there was a Titan, would it change the fact the coalition lost 57 odd capitals in doing so? Maybe it would make them feel a bit better about it, which is what this thread has turned into. Coalition folks and their alts trying to make some kind of sense out of the huge beating they took today. Well I got some news for you, you lost, big time. Titan kill or not.



Bingo was his nameo.




57? There are only ~26 capital kills posted on the BoB killboard.


Check MC's, ours, FIX's, aftermath's, Xelas', FATAL's, etc. I know we all have kills that are not on the BOB killboard.

CelticWarrior
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:10:00 - [886]
 

Well the 700 rule that was implemented tonight just killed eve.All anyone has to do now is just put 700 people in a hostile system and kill there pos and take the station and there is nothing those that have sovereignty in the system can do about it because you cant get in by jumping through the gates or by cyno or by portal also you can't log in if you logged off in the station, all doors are locked after the 700 number is reached, rinse and repeat from downtime to downtime until you have all there space.Never more than from this point on will the numbers that you can deploy be so important.

Koronos
Minmatar
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:11:00 - [887]
 

Edited by: Koronos on 30/03/2007 03:08:09
Originally by: jamesw

I think their only perogative doing that was to keep the node online. After seeing what happened in JV1V and with the nodecrash issues there, limiting the numbers was about the only option they had to prevent a reoccurance.

Either way, the POS was taken down, and the attackers took the heavy losses they expected to take. Would any of this have changed if the Coalition were to jump 500 more people into system?


What? Of course it would have. _if_ the node held, it would have allowed their support to engage the bob dreads and bs and not just leave all those bubbled cap ships to die. But of course I think your first point is probably valid, painful as it is, they had to do something to help the node stay alive after all the negative reaction to jv1v. The 700 number feels arbitrary to me, but honestly as much as Asa's idea sounds nice, theres no way it would have been practical.

Koronos

edit: and yeah, celticwarrior makes the perfect point there.

Sadist
Gallente
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:13:00 - [888]
 

Originally by: Esurnir
And guess what, today not a single node crashed afaik.


What the hell is the difference between a totally unplayable game with 15 minute delay for grid loading/module activation and a crashed node? The game is still ****ing unplayable.

nickycakes
Gallente
Game-Over
Insurgency
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:13:00 - [889]
 

we didn't want those dreads anyway

Kyguard
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:15:00 - [890]
 

A lot more of the coalition dreads would have been able to survive the siege if stront timers had been set properly on the goon pos and thus allowed titans to jump into the system.

Ah well, coalition said w/e and we are here now Cool

Voice o'Howie
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:16:00 - [891]
 

Posting with an unidentified alt in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, please be sure to have the "Show Corporation" and "Show Alliance" checkboxes ticked in your forum settings. - Karass Sayfo

garishwinner
Caldari
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:18:00 - [892]
 

Originally by: Asariasha
I think the most interesting part of todays battle was
the somehow extremly fast blocking of the POS system not
even concerning the numbers of combatants. So what happened
was that CCP lets coalition cap fleet jump in without support
and just closes the system while the major support fleet
is barred from the fight. So we had 700 in system. ~200-300 coalition
giving a rest of 400-500 BoB+allied while the insane
amount of estimated 500-700 other coalition fighters
are just not allowed to enter.

Tinfoil hat? Maybe, but the fairest decision of a GM
would have been to contact the FCs, ask for the numbers
each fleet has. Then just let 600 players move into that
system while concerning the apportionment of both fleets
in percentage.
This would have been a fair decision instead of just
excluding more than 60%! of the coalition forces.

With regards
Asa


Its people like you that should just quite Eve all together. If you really believe what you posted just leave now. How can people honestly believe CCP plays favorites. Its a game and CCP is here to make money not friends.

BoB had x number of pilots in system already. Coalition jumps x number into system. CCP knew what the node could handle and capped it before it got to that point. Not to mention most big systems have a cap. Jita is normally around 600-800 max. They made it at least a little playable by capping it when they did. If they would of let x number jump in it wouldn't of been only coalition forces to jump. There were plenty of BoB allies waiting to jump as well.

I think you should be happy it was capped. So you didn't lose more ships than you did. Also who had the bright idea of jumping your cap fleet into system without support? We didn't hold a gun to your head did we? Also maybe next time don't bring 1000+ pilots to a pos war. Maybe we could play then.

Togakure
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:18:00 - [893]
 

Edited by: Togakure on 30/03/2007 03:14:47
All smack and lag aside, thanks all for the good times. Missed the climatic battle but I enjoyed the scraps I was fed afterwards.

Koronos
Minmatar
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:22:00 - [894]
 

I should probably let this alone since the thread has moved on, but I can't

Originally by: xh'duality
Originally by: Buxaroo
update: someone linked me a picture: Cap Ship display if there ever was one


Damn.....thats a lot of cap ships.


Just to prove BOB did cause most of the lag purposly trying to safe theyre pos. But they cant break the will of a raging collition. Once again we see bob are using dirty tricks to save em sleft. Well this time they failed. Yes they might have killed alot of us cause we couldnt do anythign at all but we had the ballz to go in with what ever we had nomother what the outcome is going to be. about 800+ pilots who where not able to join the main fleet due lagg problem with in 8 jumps radious. GG


Originally by: Wrayeth
I was at the pos in my dread for pretty much the entire fight, and I had the lock bug the entire time. I'd begin locking something, it would finish and say "locked", then cycle back as if I'd only just started locking it. I never fired a single shot the entire time.

Oh, and BoB had all of their drones and fighters out to lag out people who were jumping/warping in at the very beginning of the fight. Just more of the cheap tactics we've all come to expect from them.


Now, I don't like BoB and would like to see them destroyed, but this stuff is just utter crap. Here's BoB and allies going to be defending (as we believe) a TITAN-to-be. They know, or assume they are going to be attacked by something like 1000 ships and 200 capitals. They know there is going to be lag, and from everyone's experience it may take quite a while to perform any actions (including launching drones) once the S hits the F. So, they're not going to launch their drones as soon as they are in position?????? Come on!! Confused

At the same time this argument

Originally by: Phoebus Athenian
Its awesome to see such huge fleets together.
Much committment on both sides to accomplish their goals.
That is to be respected...

However, you all know the technical limitations of the game (and ANY game).
I have not seen battles of even 100 vs 100 in another game, eve can do that
and a bit more before throwing about a lag of doom. Yes its a huge technical
challenge to have so many people in one node. CCP has done what it can so far
and is still trying to work on this technical challenge. They purchased a very
expensive SSD system, two of them. http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=498575&page=1
My point is, if everyone knows where the game cuts off, SPLIT your forces.
Would it be too hard for the two sides to allow similar numbers/types of forces
to jump in a system and have their fight?
Its obvious trying to outblob each other doesn't work, so lets be sane
and make more reasonable fights. Everybody keeps blaming CCP, I'm blaming you.
And admire you at the same time for your dedication BUT, you know the game limitations.
Split the fleets, do multiple attacks instead of focusing on one system.
I don't understand why everybody has to jump in one system and crowd the bejezus out of it ;)

I hope a good number of you enjoyed the fight semi-lag free, though I am
seeing a lot of posts about lagdeaths... which is to be expected.


This screenie says it all ;)
http://freenet-homepage.de/winchip2/2007.03.29.21.25.25.jpg


doesn't hold any water either, nor does the argument that the coalition intentionally crashed the node in jv1 by bringing so many ships. With this much on the line, you're going to bring everything you have, and to argue that you "shouldn't"? Well, it just doesn't make any sense.

Koronos

mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:23:00 - [895]
 

Edited by: mazzilliu on 30/03/2007 03:22:54
Originally by: CelticWarrior
Well the 700 rule that was implemented tonight just killed eve.All anyone has to do now is just put 700 people in a hostile system and kill there pos and take the station and there is nothing those that have sovereignty in the system can do about it because you cant get in by jumping through the gates or by cyno or by portal also you can't log in if you logged off in the station, all doors are locked after the 700 number is reached, rinse and repeat from downtime to downtime until you have all there space.Never more than from this point on will the numbers that you can deploy be so important.

demanding to know why the 700 limit was implemented and why now instead of in jv1v or on a prescheduled date

also demanding to know if it's okay to totally lockdown a vital a system with a few hundred multiple account'ers sitting afk

Jane Spondogolo
Amarr
NoobWaffe
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:26:00 - [896]
 

Originally by: nickycakes
we didn't want those dreads anyway


Bob didnt want that baby titan? You know that isnt your joke to make.

Basics
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:27:00 - [897]
 

Posting with an unidentified alt in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, please be sure to have the "Show Corporation" and "Show Alliance" checkboxes ticked in your forum settings. - Karass Sayfo

Raivi
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:29:00 - [898]
 

Edited by: Raivi on 30/03/2007 03:26:24
Originally by: Troubadour

Check MC's, ours, FIX's, aftermath's, Xelas', FATAL's, etc. I know we all have kills that are not on the BOB killboard.


I just checked all of those killboards, MC has 2 dread that aren't on the BoB one, the rest are all repeats.

So unless there are some killmails that haven't been posted on the BoB, MC, FIX, Slacker Industries, Aftermath, Xelas, or FATAL killboards (a definite possibility, and if anyone knows of any I'd appreciate a link), 26 Coalition dreads and 2 Coalition Carriers were killed during the siege. There was also a RAT dread that died a few hours earlier, I'm not sure the story behind that.

28 capital ships killed in one battle. That shatters the previous record. Congrats BoB and friends on the single biggest Dread slaughter in EvE history. However it looks like the figures of 40-55 that some people have been throwing around are hyperbole.

Esurnir
Amarr
Bears Inc
FREGE Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:31:00 - [899]
 

Originally by: Sadist
Originally by: Esurnir
And guess what, today not a single node crashed afaik.


What the hell is the difference between a totally unplayable game with 15 minute delay for grid loading/module activation and a crashed node? The game is still ****ing unplayable.
None, and I beat you with 25 minute for loading grid + 5 minute to finaly warp to a planet right in the middle of a bob gatecamp. Hopefully they didnt bothered targeting a lone ceptor pilot.

Euthanasia XXX
Amarr
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.03.30 03:33:00 - [900]
 

Originally by: Troubadour
Originally by: Euthanasia XXX
Originally by: Ferocious FeAr
Originally by: Troubadour
If it was BoB and friends losing 57ish capitals and killing a POS with a capital assembly array, everyone would be saying, "OMG BOD IS DED NOW!" Instead of debating whether or not there actually was a titan in production in the array. Even if there was a Titan, would it change the fact the coalition lost 57 odd capitals in doing so? Maybe it would make them feel a bit better about it, which is what this thread has turned into. Coalition folks and their alts trying to make some kind of sense out of the huge beating they took today. Well I got some news for you, you lost, big time. Titan kill or not.



Bingo was his nameo.




57? There are only ~26 capital kills posted on the BoB killboard.


Check MC's, ours, FIX's, aftermath's, Xelas', FATAL's, etc. I know we all have kills that are not on the BOB killboard.


The MC KB is "down". As for the rest, perhaps you should check them before suggesting any of those corps had a major influence on the outcome. ;)

Propaganda ftw


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