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Gutsani
Chaos Reborn
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:05:00 - [61]
 

Quote:

Webmasters, if you value the security of your websites and content, ensure your users change their passwords on a semi-regular basis.



The pot telling the kettle he is black? Seriously, YOU dont controle your people, YOUR stuff is lacking in security, YOU dont controle your own website-staff let stand any other site's, yet YOU expect EM to improve their security? Sorry, but you are verry black...

Also, what is this whine blog talking about? I havnt seen an EX-CCP employee do **** and i read the forums all the time .. Is this about the kugutsufool again?

Elve Sorrow
Amarr
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:07:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Gutsani
Is this about the kugutsufool again?


Yea.


RossP Zoyka
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:08:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Dekiri
I could not disagree more, because they made the game does not mean that they can cheat in it period. It is a moneycow and it gets them good money and they ARE a company and WE ARE customers afterall. There are certain rules between customers and companies and this is breaking them.

If you really believe noone did anything wrong but that kuug dude then you really live in another world. I am pretty sure that the coreli person did not do anything wrong, but it is not about that person afterall. That person is just victim of bad company policies and nothing else. Except maybe kuugududes e-revenge, wich is also something CCP really asked for tbh.


Guilty until proven innocent because t20 screwed up and the "revenge" you want upon t20 was not served? I don't respect anyone with that attitude.


You're damn right man! that's an awful non-constructive attitude.

Hank Cousteau
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:09:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Hank Cousteau on 28/03/2007 21:05:32
If CCP doesn't want their employees to be metagamed, they shouldn't make them such prime strategic targets. Never lead, never contribute above expectations, never advise above the basic.

I'd feel more sympathy if CCP accounts were under a policy of being observers. No one would really be phased by a dev-outing then.

Ba'lkell Yulaille
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:09:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Ba''lkell Yulaille on 28/03/2007 21:06:33
Originally by: Dekiri
Yes it is relevant, because they have a customer base they need to satisfy to some point. As long as they had not cheated it wasn't a problem, but after that came out and also how they "handled" it it was not a regular case anymore.


If the customer base is not satisfied they will vote with their wallets; if you're dissatisfied, give it more value than a sensation of some hidden corruption and just admit it outright that you want to see t20 fired because he wasn't eight months ago.

CCP admitted that it was handled badly, and the person who "social engineered" his way in is paying for his wrong-doings. What is enough?

-This is Evelgrivion again- stupid forums Embarassed

Abye
Caldari
Blinking Wallet makes me happy
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:13:00 - [66]
 

Quote:

Sadly, these most recent 'revelations' are hardly more than sensationalism concerning a staff member who left the organization over 3.5 years ago, and a case of mistaken identity.



Funny that he uses a ccp ip-number

Kronarty
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:19:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Kronarty on 28/03/2007 21:18:09


CCP kieron

Posted - 2007.03.28 21:23:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: OozoO
Kieron, this post is somehow ******ed and I dont think YOU should post such, you are totally involved in this Riekon, err ...

Regarding the involvement you are alluding to, this is something that transpired nearly 4 years ago. At launch, I was a volunteer, and another volunteer game me a CD key. I created an account, played it for a couple months, then received an offer to work for a competing company. I gave the account back to the person who gave me the cd key originally, the account later transfered to a different player. Both transfers were made long before the EULA was changed barring the transfer of account ownership.

When I accepted the EVE Community Manager position, I investigated the possibility of regaining the account, but the owner did not want to surrender the account. The Riekon character on that account is not a creation of mine.

In regards to the demands for 'more transparency', I submit the following: Transparency- The full, accurate, and timely disclosure of information.

Last summer, a Dev was caught cheating, judgment calls were made and some of the decisions should have been made differently. No, we were not transparent then, but we have apologized for mistakes made and instituted a number of changes. In the two past plus months, we have created a Director level position to create and enforce internal policies, had blogs from t20, CCP's CEO, and the Director of IA, investigations into accusations of misconduct, more blogs, forum responses, solicited feedback from the EVE community in regards to game design to help prevent future instances of abuse, some staff are no longer with the company, and more.

If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.

As for the players who have been confused by the lack of a link to the site hosting the information mentioned in the Dev Blog's first paragraph, it would be irresponsible to blog about security, yet direct players to the type of site mentioned.

The purpose of the blog is to inform the EVE community about the use of common sense while surfing the web and to keep information security in mind at all times. The Dev team has been instructed on steps to take on this very topic. The intro to the blog was a segue from one topic to the next, it is unfortunate that some readers missed it.

Viper ShizzIe
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:33:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: kieron

If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.



Spot on, in my opinion.

Standard Deviation
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:34:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: kieron


In regards to the demands for 'more transparency', I submit the following: Transparency- The full, accurate, and timely disclosure of information.




Personally I would love to see the results of an internal audit of every single event that has ever taken place. Way before t20, since i first started the game, people told me dont bother trying to do events they are rigged. I loved the game so I stuck with it, but the fact that a good portion of your community has thought the events were rigged for years probably means an audit and report on them would make a lot of people happy.

Also...
The idea of having all the Devs wipe all chars and start from the beginning. Sounds like a great idea.

You guys have done the end game. Now you should all see what it is like for new players starting out (without and uber main to help them along the way). It might help the game be more balanced between content for new players and content for old players.

Viper ShizzIe
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:36:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Standard Deviation


Also...
The idea of having all the Devs wipe all chars and start from the beginning. Sounds like a great idea.

You guys have done the end game. Now you should all see what it is like for new players starting out


I'd place a quite large bet that over half of the current CCP employees actually played EvE and started out as complete noobs, like the rest of us, before they were hired.

Ba'lkell Yulaille
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:40:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Viper ShizzIe
Originally by: Standard Deviation


Also...
The idea of having all the Devs wipe all chars and start from the beginning. Sounds like a great idea.

You guys have done the end game. Now you should all see what it is like for new players starting out


I'd place a quite large bet that over half of the current CCP employees actually played EvE and started out as complete noobs, like the rest of us, before they were hired.


Quoted for Truth.

MuthaTrucka
Amarr
space-truckers
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:40:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: kieron


Last summer, a Dev was caught cheating, judgment calls were made and some of the decisions should have been made differently. No, we were not transparent then, but we have apologized for mistakes made and instituted a number of changes. In the two past plus months, we have created a Director level position to create and enforce internal policies



Who By the Way doesn't communicate with the community in a way that makes the community want to trust him doing his job.
Originally by: kieron
, had blogs from t20, CCP's CEO, and the Director of IA, investigations into accusations of misconduct, more blogs, forum responses, solicited feedback from the EVE community in regards to game design to help prevent future instances of abuse, some staff are no longer with the company, and more.


Which By The way all ended in Multi Page threads that got unstuck and forgotten with no Communication back to those who took the time to post in the threads. Solicitation is fine if it "Appears" that you care. Which By the way it does not.
Originally by: kieron

If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.


You don't have Transparency, you have Sound bytes and snippets that you post, let the community Comment on and then unstick so it "appears" that you are just letting them fall to the Wayside. Next time you decide to talk about transparency and the EVE community pretend for a change that some of us would prefer an answer that doesn't include Snide comments, a subject unrelated to the question, or complete Fluff to take out minds off what is bothering us....

What I am getting at is stop dodging the hard questions and either DENY or GIVE a straight answer. You lose nothing By denying an answer, yet you lose more by dodging a straight answer.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:45:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: MuthaTrucka
You don't have Transparency, you have Sound bytes and snippets that you post, let the community Comment on and then unstick so it "appears" that you are just letting them fall to the Wayside. Next time you decide to talk about transparency and the EVE community pretend for a change that some of us would prefer an answer that doesn't include Snide comments, a subject unrelated to the question, or complete Fluff to take out minds off what is bothering us....

What I am getting at is stop dodging the hard questions and either DENY or GIVE a straight answer. You lose nothing By denying an answer, yet you lose more by dodging a straight answer.


Then to what question are you looking for a straight answer? I haven't seen any asked in this case.

Zhaine
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:45:00 - [75]
 

I can't be bothered with all of the arguments in this thread, the whole thing just saddens, disheartens and angers me to the point where I want to scream and scream and scream in people's stupid faces until they see the sense which incredibly evades them.

Anyone defending that bastard. . . Eugh. . . You scum.

If you don't like or trust CCP anymore, why are you here and paying them money?

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:45:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Gnulpie on 28/03/2007 21:43:27
I can't see why the CCP people cannot stay in the corp/alliance once they got discovered.

This whole 'delete the char when busted' more or less calls out straight for such witch hunts like the current 'vendetta'.

Why not just telling people who the employees are in game and if someone suspects them to do something wrong then they contact the new IA section.

There are always people who will yell 'foul' wether there was foul play or not, these people must be ignored and a healthy community will ignore them. There might be quarrels about this or that case, but in general I think my suggestion has many benefits - more than the current one. But in the end it is not my business but CCP's Very Happy

And the current advise in Kieron's blog is of course by no way bad advise. It is always good to watch information about you not slipping out in too big amounts.

Edit: spelling

Zhaine
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:48:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: MuthaTrucka

You don't have Transparency, you have Sound bytes and snippets that you post, let the community Comment on and then unstick so it "appears" that you are just letting them fall to the Wayside. Next time you decide to talk about transparency and the EVE community pretend for a change that some of us would prefer an answer that doesn't include Snide comments, a subject unrelated to the question, or complete Fluff to take out minds off what is bothering us....

What I am getting at is stop dodging the hard questions and either DENY or GIVE a straight answer. You lose nothing By denying an answer, yet you lose more by dodging a straight answer.



As I just said, if you actually feel this strongly why on earth are you here? This is just a game that you can leave at any point if you feel you're getting such poor value for your money.

Dal Thrax
Perkone
Posted - 2007.03.28 21:55:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Dal Thrax on 28/03/2007 21:55:40
Originally by: kieron
My new Dev Blog says what I want to say, but there are a couple points that I want to reinforce. If you value your personal information, please use discretion when visiting sites that may contain questionable or malicious content, or are administrated by staff who may not have your best interests in mind.

Security, Third Party Sites and Your Information, are they as important to you as they should be?



I supported CCP up until the point that I read the actual forum post in questions. Basically a CCP employee who admits to having little PvP experience gives detailed advice on the use and fitting of capital ships including dreadnaughts. While the carrier information is generally available the side by side comparision of different dreads and their ability in actual combat is knowledge gained through the dev process. Had the guid been placed in the EvE-O forum with a link to his guide/post in a private forum this would not be a problem. Instead it was made on a private forum. Also the surety that 2+ bil can be made by simi causual ratting in Dev in under three months, lets just say I looks like Delve has been buffed to be the most profitable 0.0 region.

Dal

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2007.03.28 22:01:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Dal Thrax
Originally by: kieron
My new Dev Blog says what I want to say, but there are a couple points that I want to reinforce. If you value your personal information, please use discretion when visiting sites that may contain questionable or malicious content, or are administrated by staff who may not have your best interests in mind.

Security, Third Party Sites and Your Information, are they as important to you as they should be?



I supported CCP up until the point that I read the actual forum post in questions. Basically a CCP employee who admits to having little PvP experience gives detailed advice on the use and fitting of capital ships including dreadnaughts. While the carrier information is generally available the side by side comparision of different dreads and their ability in actual combat is clearly knowledge gained through the EvE-O forum then placed a link to his guide/post in a private forum this would not be a problem. Instead it was made on a private forum. Also the surety that 2+ bil can be made by simi causual ratting in Dev in under three months, lets just say I looks like Delve has been buffed to be the most profitable 0.0 region.

Dal


Mate, he didn't get told the game mechanics for dreadnoughts, he worked them out for himself. Thats why CCP hired him in the first place. This debate has been gone through on IRC channels; the end determination was, you can learn everything special mechanically about the game through game experience, SiSi, or even asking the developers themselves - they are reachable, and they are human Razz

MuthaTrucka
Amarr
space-truckers
Posted - 2007.03.28 22:02:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Zhaine

As I just said, if you actually feel this strongly why on earth are you here? This is just a game that you can leave at any point if you feel you're getting such poor value for your money.


Jumping to Conclusions about me are you not?
I never said I wasn't getting enjoyment out of the game or maybe because I disagree with CCP over some issues you think I would be better off gone?


Viper ShizzIe
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.03.28 22:03:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Viper ShizzIe on 28/03/2007 22:03:00
Originally by: Dal Thrax

While the carrier information is generally available the side by side comparision of different dreads and their ability in actual combat is knowledge gained through the dev process. Had the guid been placed in the EvE-O forum with a link to his guide/post in a private forum this would not be a problem. Instead it was made on a private forum. Also the surety that 2+ bil can be made by simi causual ratting in Dev in under three months, lets just say I looks like Delve has been buffed to be the most profitable 0.0 region.
Dal


To be completely honest, that is total ****. Any of the information posted in that thread could have been made by someone 2 months into the game that had bothered to learn about how tanking/capitals work and looking at the statistics of the different dreads and their weapon systems; which I'm sure has been posted on EvE-O time and time again.

Ilor Prophet
Posted - 2007.03.28 22:09:00 - [82]
 

I can make 10+ mil ISK in an hour of ratting, and I live in moderately crappy 0.0 space. I also can't fly a Raven or use torps yet (just...a few...more...days...). If 2 billion ISK represents 200 hours of ratting in in a battlecruiser in moderately crappy 0.0 space, I have no problems believing someone could do it in 3 months or so. I see no reason to cry foul.

Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
Posted - 2007.03.28 22:13:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Dal Thrax
Originally by: kieron
My new Dev Blog says what I want to say, but there are a couple points that I want to reinforce. If you value your personal information, please use discretion when visiting sites that may contain questionable or malicious content, or are administrated by staff who may not have your best interests in mind.

Security, Third Party Sites and Your Information, are they as important to you as they should be?



I supported CCP up until the point that I read the actual forum post in questions. Basically a CCP employee who admits to having little PvP experience gives detailed advice on the use and fitting of capital ships including dreadnaughts. While the carrier information is generally available the side by side comparision of different dreads and their ability in actual combat is clearly knowledge gained through the EvE-O forum then placed a link to his guide/post in a private forum this would not be a problem. Instead it was made on a private forum. Also the surety that 2+ bil can be made by simi causual ratting in Dev in under three months, lets just say I looks like Delve has been buffed to be the most profitable 0.0 region.

Dal

I don't fly a single capital but even I could have made that post ffs. That info was FAR from perfect and hardly a violation of anything towards anybody... ever.

IMO, you whiny lot just look like you're ready to take any excuse to throw a hissy fit. If you don't like CCP, EvE or the way you are being 'cheated out of secret-info-haxxsploit-guides' then I suggest you cancel your accounts and move on.

Nytemaster
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.03.28 22:22:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Daniella Althera
Originally by: kieron
Not only is the blown identity a sad occasion for the staff member as the character will be removed from play, this should also be a lesson for the EVE community. How so? Apparently, this information was gained after security on another third-party forum was breached.


He has a spy there. A SPY. That's metagaming, the very thing you're advertising that's so awesome in EVE and what makes EVE worth playing when compared to others. Metagaming. This is what you wanted, you can't deny it without banning all metagaming from EVE and as we all know, that won't happen. Just because your own rules backfired on you, you shouldn't act like a bunch of pansies and try to claim things with even less facts than Kug.


If an Eve employee gets caught playing in an alliance, they should just start a new character and put them somewhere else. If the main goal is to keep up with how the game is played then these revelations by the player base mean nothing to you.

Since you GMs feel you are being wronged by being revealed, it shows you are not just interested in the game, but in the relations you have with your fellow corp/alliance members. That goes against the very fundamentals you claim to keep GMs in the game.

Hamfast
Gallente
Posted - 2007.03.28 22:25:00 - [85]
 

Personally I want CCP folks in all walks of Eve life... Small PvE corps, large PvP corps, mining corps, Industrials, every walk of life… had this been done, Verge Vendor may still have some Ice in high sec space…

I want them hidden so folks don't know who they are dealing with...

I want them to be able to do things and test things just to see how it works... If the cost is someone (not a CCP employee) loses something significant, then an Eve-Mail from the GM-God that says “Our logs show that your loss of X was due to a game issue, it will be replaced” and replace it.

I want them able to play from work during slow times... I know I have times at work where I have to find busy work to do… my boss makes those times few and far between, but it still happens, I want CCP employees to be able to put that time to good use.

Ever sit in the back of a classroom while the instructor is out of the room? folks act a lot different... CCP will only see this if they are not known...

Should there be some CCP Characters that folks know? darn right there should be... but most should be secret...

The only difference is that the IA department should have detailed reporting of the activities of all CCP Employee Characters...let them be monitored to insure there are no more T20 like issues...

Kieron, I am sorry you felt the need to make this blog/post, most of what you said is both well known and not followed, we in the US have a saying about horses and water that fits quite well...

Want an idea for "Outed CCP Players"? Give them special ships, if the Character can fly a Titan, give them one... that can travel in all space... add CCP_ to the front of their names and let them spend some time flying around answering issues and questions from the players in space... if Popped, the Special ship drops no loot, no wreck, no pod... Oh, and put them in a Special game corp... say CCP...

As for the "Sound Bites and Video Clips" Transparency, if that is the best you can do, then thank you for doing that much.

Lysit Kaune
Minmatar
Band Of Bonkers
Posted - 2007.03.28 22:40:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: kieron

In regards to the demands for 'more transparency', I submit the following: Transparency- The full, accurate, and timely disclosure of information.

Last summer, a Dev was caught cheating, judgment calls were made and some of the decisions should have been made differently. No, we were not transparent then, but we have apologized for mistakes made and instituted a number of changes.



And your transparent now? Translucent maybe. Problem is people only believe a public announcement was made because someone outside of CCP already did it on your behalf, with enough evidence (if of dubious sources and content) for things to start adding up.

Theres also been alot of hard questions floating around that no one has attempted to answer (Or atleast has been in a position to give an official answer). With peoples paranioa already up theres some people going crazy over it now.

Quote:

we have created a Director level position to create and enforce internal policies



Which I personally believe to have been done with good intents all around, though I could see why some people could see it as covering there tracks etc. and the old quis custodiet ipsos custodes. Though I hope (and believe) that anything found through this new position in publised in the appropriate way to prevent the mistakes of last summer. But as mentioned previous some specifics seemed glossed over.

Quote:

If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.



And I don't think many people are under any other illusions, its quite clear we can like it or lump it. Its also quite clear alot of people have invested alot of time and effort into eve (not to mention money) who aren't a part of CCP, and many of these people come away with a sour taste in there mouth and are inclined to react in such a manner as to invoke a similar reaction in you. Its fair to say your more open, that you've made changes to prevent similar occurences, but it can come off as "its now fixed, go away, shut up" either through intention or not.

mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.03.28 22:43:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: kieron

As for the players who have been confused by the lack of a link to the site hosting the information mentioned in the Dev Blog's first paragraph, it would be irresponsible to blog about security, yet direct players to the type of site mentioned.




this is ofcourse written under the assumption that the OTHER sites one can link to on these forums are safer. did the K. writeup about the D2 eve fansite teach us nothing? even the most trustworthy, no, ESPECIALLY the most trustworthy 3rd party sites are the ones that need to be feared, not the sites everyone's already paranoid about.

Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
Posted - 2007.03.28 23:09:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Dr Felonius
Here's an other idea: Own up to your failures as a company, stop trying to keep dev characters a secret, and commit yourselves to openness and assurances of integrity. If there's no secret, there's no way hackers can get famous exposing it.

The T20 scandal put a permanent end to the days when your playerbase trusted you to keep your secrets and do the right thing. This is the world you created for yourselves. Live in it.



After all that has been written, I still think this is the best reply yet.

The players do not trust you anymore CCP. Your actions lost the trust you were so famous for. Nothing you have done so far has brought it back. This is the problem you should address. Putting down the Kungustufool is not going to work.

The populous may be stupid but they do have a long memory.

Something smells. You'd better address the stink CCP. As they say were I'm from: sometimes a clean cut is better than a festering wound.

Matrix Aran
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.28 23:13:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: kieron

If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.



QFT


Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
Posted - 2007.03.28 23:14:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: kieron

If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.



I wonder how long you can hold on to such statements. More people are dissatisfied with your actions regarding these matters than you seem to think. The game is still good enough for them, but you'll find it harder to keep them satisfied now, since bugs + the perceived lack of integrity + lag together work against CCP on the long run.



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