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Yonderboi
Posted - 2007.12.29 18:56:00 - [121]
 

Edited by: Yonderboi on 29/12/2007 23:31:48
I have been playing my achura monk for 14 days. I had following base attributes:
i=10 p=10 w=8 m=8 c=3

My main aim is PVP.

I am thinking about rerolling into i=10 p=12 w=8 m=6 c=3... But I am not sure when will it pay off. I have build my plan (350 days) in EveMon and found that with ideal attr build I will be faster by 12 days per year...

Unsure what to do. I am happy with my name and face, etc, but I just read this thread and made some calculation, so I am confused now...

Jerusalem Eve
Amarr
Posted - 2007.12.31 01:04:00 - [122]
 

If it makes you feel better then 2 weeks is a pretty minor setback. I think your sweating details a little too much. You don't have a bad set of atributes at all.

My very first character in Eve was going to be a pvp pilot. Well I didn't have any idea what I was doing. I made a Gallente Intaki with a Per of 3. ugh I played about a month and realized I couldn't train combat skills at all. So, your not as bad off as I was back then.

Its your call on that. I don't think your current stats are that bad and you might find that the balance pays off in the end.



Originally by: Yonderboi
Edited by: Yonderboi on 29/12/2007 23:31:48
I have been playing my achura monk for 14 days. I had following base attributes:
i=10 p=10 w=8 m=8 c=3

My main aim is PVP.

I am thinking about rerolling into i=10 p=12 w=8 m=6 c=3... But I am not sure when will it pay off. I have build my plan (350 days) in EveMon and found that with ideal attr build I will be faster by 12 days per year...

Unsure what to do. I am happy with my name and face, etc, but I just read this thread and made some calculation, so I am confused now...

Yonderboi
Posted - 2008.01.02 10:45:00 - [123]
 

thank you for the feedback :) i decided to stay with current attributes build. i think those 2 points will not make my game more funny.

Jet Roguestar
Posted - 2008.01.06 21:08:00 - [124]
 

Maybe I am missing something but..
It is nemtioned that Intaki are the worst pick for a balanced character.
However my intaki char has this as base stats CHAR:6 WILL:9 INT:9 PER:10 MEM:11.

Isnt that very balanced? Considering charisma isnt a very important stat?
Or is the best balanced character the ones with the highest int+per?

Because when I picked military soldier I got +4 perception and + 2 willpower wich helped me build up my weakest stats.



Jerusalem Eve
Amarr
Posted - 2008.01.08 08:21:00 - [125]
 

All characters have 39 base stat points. So your actual base stats are chr 6, Will 7, Int 9, Per 6, Mem 11.

Based on the game's current rules, per and int are used as the primary in the most skills. Unless your making a very specific character, you probably need per and int over the long run.

Originally by: Jet Roguestar
Maybe I am missing something but..
It is nemtioned that Intaki are the worst pick for a balanced character.
However my intaki char has this as base stats CHAR:6 WILL:9 INT:9 PER:10 MEM:11.

Isnt that very balanced? Considering charisma isnt a very important stat?
Or is the best balanced character the ones with the highest int+per?

Because when I picked military soldier I got +4 perception and + 2 willpower wich helped me build up my weakest stats.




Angelis ExMortis
Thirteen Ninety Three
Posted - 2008.01.09 01:23:00 - [126]
 

hmmnn

i seem to see alot thrown around about mining and such

what about PVP char creation

and what ill effects are using a industrial character with good atbs to make a PVP character
i have a min sebiestor rebel

with evenly placed atbs and +5's for training clone
i trained minmitar since i was told that that was the best character for pvp...

additionally what do you think about the possibilty that some skills could require charaisma in the future that never did before or having a reasonably balanced charaisma as i do 6 or seven base(cant be arsed to check, think its 6 tho)

for the maxing of skills for pvp (leadership, in association with warfare modules aswell)

and anchoring 5 for t2 bubbs corp management aswell

all things i need for effective pvp

maybe you could run some numbers 3-6 base atb plus moving a caldari character to minmitar pvp skills vs just getting a minmitar character for me?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.01.09 03:37:00 - [127]
 

Learning skills and implants are the "big equalizer" here, granting up to +16.5 attribute points when maxed out (5 from basic attribute boost, 5 from advanced attribute boost, 5 from improved implant, and an extra 10% from L5 learning), on top of a flat 10% boost to the base attribute.
The lowest possible starter attribute is 3 (acheivable by all three achuras and one amarr in charisma, by one vherokior in willpower and by two intaki in perception). There are a few other 4 choices, and a lot more with 5.
The highest possible starter attribute is 17 in willpower (14 base plus 3 custom, one amarr) by one choice, 15 in charisma (one of each gallente and ni-kunni), and 14 in the other attributes (various).

So, in the best/worst case scenario, in the "long enough" run, you have 3 vs 17 (a huge gap without learnings nor implants) and 19.8 vs 35.2 (still quite a big difference, but not that crippling).
Normally however, attributes are rarely spread THAT much, with base values more akin to 5 min vs 11 max spreads or so, which can become 22 vs 28.6, which is already a pretty small difference.
___

As for charisma, well, in the grand scheme of things, if you consider every nook and cranny of strategy possible, one can argue that charisma is slowly becoming almost as important as willpower overall, especially due to the growing niche of POS-gun-controlling characters (recent skill), fleet commanders (one year old skillset) and traders (due to increase in population).
However, none of these specialised heavy-charisma-needed characters are likely to see frontline combat (except maybe the fleet commanders), and those that do also need loads of non-charisma skills to survive there, on the frontline, properly (fly command ships or capital ships).

As for a PvP-built character, it really, really depends on HOW exactly do you plan to PvP, meaning the balance ratio of desired skills between pure combat (ship/weapons) and support (electronics/engineering/mechanic).
In a smaller gang or solo, damage usually (but not always) outweighs support, while in medium to large sized gangs, support skills become increasingly important, only to have combat skills become more important again in very large scale combat (fleets).
To make things more complicated, memory plays a good part in drone skills alongside perception, and willpower is primary instead of perception for T2 ships, so wethere you're a drone user or a pilot who wants to focus on T2 ships, you can't afford to neglect those two either.
What you can always neglect as a combat pilot is charisma, again and again, since the only really useful skillset requiring charisma for you is warfare link specialisation L4 (and that's about it) and a few levels of infomorph psychology (but you rarely need a high level of that, and it's a rank 1 skill).

My personal recommendations for PvP builds of "incubated" chars (funded by main for fast start) would be:
* caldari achura monk (or even stargazer) enginer - for caldari ships and a select few gallente and minmatar ones
* amarr khanid cyberknight engineer - for amarr and gallente ships, and a few minnie ships too
* minmatar sebiestor rebel engineer - for most minnie ships

The training speed differences are negligible in the long run and with a learning head-start, and the more or less focused initial support skillpack is nice too (don't waste that much time training THAT many countless boring low-level, low-rank skills you need to fly the ship).
If you HAVE to go gallente, I'd say go with gallente jin-mei saan-go engineer, but it's "meh" at best... TOO balanced IMHO, perception base is lower (the only 6), and too much charisma (all rest base are 7). Best you can do is a 9 per, 7 cha (and either 10 int 7 rest, or 9 int 7/8 mem 8/7 wil).

Achura monk might work nicely with anything from 10 per, 10 int, 8 mem, 8 wil, 3 cha to things like 11p 8i 6m 10w 3c.
Khanid cyberknight, probably best 11p 8i 7m 8w 5c, or even 11p 9i 6m 8w 5c.

Sanrek Haynes
Gallente
Posted - 2008.01.09 11:22:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Sanrek Haynes on 09/01/2008 11:23:00
Greetings.

First, congratulation for this awesome guide, that really helped me a lot while trying to understand a bit what to do and what to...hem..avoid (basicly what I've done so far Embarassed)

I still have a little question between two choices for a good start, as I'm recreating my character (First one, so as a main he'll have to be self-sufficient,etc...).

Let's say I pick a Gallente - Gallente - Immigrant (I know, the 8 in Charisma is going to hurt, but as a gallente it's hard to have a better score, and I don't like Jin-Meis) with this kind of stats:

10P / 9(6+3)I / 6(4+2)M / 6W / 8C

For a electronic combat/drone based character (perhaps not right at the beginning, but after having managed to assume self-sufficiency), is it a good idea to start as an engineer to get the support/tech skills and rise the combat ones thanks to the high P/I (I know, not this high compared to the achura / khanid twinks) or would it be a total mistake on the long run, with a goal to be able to do pvp at some point.



Thanks by advance.








Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.01.09 18:55:00 - [129]
 

It's almost always a good idea to start out as engineer (or in some rare cases, even prospector) on a second character, especially if you can fund it decently (50 mil would be a bare minimum, around 120 mil would be perfect).
The money is for advanced learning skills (you want all except maybe charisma, so that's 18 or 22.5 mil), some generic skills you'll need soon (you do plan on learning something other than just learnings, don't you?) and a set of implants (the very least a few +2s, int/mem ASAP and per/wil later after you're done with learnings for the time being, so in a week or two... better still, a full set of +3s, for each and every of the 5 attributes), plus maybe some seed money for gear (ship, equipment, trading funds, you name it).

The reasons are that both engineer and prospector schools grant you science L3 right off the bat, enabling you to train cybernetics L1 as your first trained skill level.
Not only that, but since you have both an useful +4 and +2 from learning in int/mem (or mem/int if you picked prospector), the cybernetics training should work like a breeze, then follow up with one advanced learning skill (int for engineer, mem for prospectors) to L2 the very least, then get the other one to L4 and L2 advanced, then L3 advanced both (and also L2/L3, then later L4 learning).
With that, you should be very close to or even above 17 in both int and mem effective value by now the very least, making the reast of the learning skills a breeze.
You can definetely finish all learnings to L4 basic and L3 advanced in little over one week or so, and by then you're looking at an average attribute score around 18 (of course, some higher/lower depending on base attribute choices) which already "pay off" in little under a month or so.

Right now, you can decide wether you'd like to use your character anywhere in the near future (next month, two months, stuff like that) or only much later (next year, or maybe even longer)... depending on that, start training "useful" skills right away (you have a decent training speed already anyway) or keep of buffing the learning skills and even the cybernetics skill for better implants.
Ballpark figure, all (or most of the) L4 advanceds only if you plan for character "to be ready" in around half a year (a bit longer actually), all L5 basics too if your target date is more like one and a half years (a bit shorter actually), and all L5 advanceds only if you plan to play it for roughly three years or even longer without seing any actual benefits before that.

As for cybernetics, if you have the funds, L4 cybernetics might even be your primary goal from the get-go, in which case you should probably buy +2m/+2i implants alongside a full +4 set, only do advanced int 2 and basic mem 3, then move directly for cyber 4 and plug in the +4s (destroying the +2s in the process).
If you can find a jumpclone install service so early on during character life (it's quite possible, for instance even our corp used to offer it as a free perk for members), or if you don't really care about ISK, it might be worth plugging +3s instead of +2s, but the benefits aren't that great compared to the cost.

Ryuu Katsu
Umbra Campitor
Dead On Arrival Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.31 04:44:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Akita T

Khanid cyberknight, probably best 11p 8i 7m 8w 5c, or even 11p 9i 6m 8w 5c.



I was just wondering if you are now leaning towards one of the above recommendations for a purely PvP specced alt character instead of your previously recommended stat distribution of:

Originally by: Akita T

Amarr Khanid Cyberknight with 13 (11+2) Per, 9 (6+3) Int, 8 Wil, 4 Mem, 5 Cha



Thanks in advance. Great guide all over, was really helpful for creating my main. Wink

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.01.31 07:24:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 31/01/2008 07:25:48

Depends how much of what you want to be training Laughing

The first set (11p 8i 7m 8w 5c) would be for those that might either want to go for gallente ship training or just like to have good drone skill, and also those who like a slightly shorter basic learning skills training time, but keep it all relatively balanced.
The second set (11p 9i 6m 8w 5c) would appeal to the ones focusing slightly more on the EWar side of things, or just on support or navigation skills instead.
The third set (13p 9i 4m 8w 5c) would be for those that don't mind waiting a bit longer for learnings and just want to get the "minimum needed" drone skills, if any at all, while focusing heavily on ship command, gunnery and navigational skills.

There is no "best" choice, it's just "best for your choices", choices which might change as the game progresses.
So, when in doubt, I tend to go for the most balanced-looking one in the end (one that still "follows the rules" of p>=i>=w/m>>c as much as possible), personally.

Baycee
Posted - 2008.01.31 15:09:00 - [132]
 

Akita, thank you allot for this awesome guide. I'm a new player but an old schooler when it comes to games, and i like to read allot of info when i begin a new game.

With apologies if this drains your seemingly infinite energy in giving advice, what would you consider the best char for mining/industry? I rolled a Caldari Deteis Business Scientist Antrepreneur, but i noticed my Industry skills are almost non-existent. Noob mistake, i know. I would be delighted if you could give me a piece of advice.

More info about me: I'm piloting a Badger atm, which altough is slower then a Bantam at mining, has the advantage of beeing able to let it mine for 2 hours without me needing to run around to the station, so i can do other stuff during(study, watching a movie). I am sitting at about 500.000 ISK atm, so Implants and Advanced Learnings are out of reach. I will probably go with the basic learnings untill L4 and then start to develop my mining/industry skills.

Any help is greatly apreciated. Keep up the good work Akita.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.01.31 16:58:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 31/01/2008 17:05:31

Skill-pack-wise, a Minmatar Engineer would probably be best.
You get Engineering 5, Industry 5, Science 4, Shield Upgrades 4 and Mass production and Mechanic 3, to name a few of the relevant skills you get from the start (you usually fit LSEs on haulers for the bufer and extra passive tank).
Bloodline, I'd have to say either sebiestor tinker (base 11i 6m), vherokior drifter (base 9i 8m) or vherokior retailer (base 7i 11m), depending on what you'd like to focus on more, mining/reprocessing/manufacture or science/invention/manufacture.

Caldari Engineers are not much worse skill-pack wise for industry/mining, but the focus is more into science than manufacture.
An Achura Inventor would be the better choice IMHO (base 12i 6m), but this is again more science-focused as it is mining-focused, so you might want to go Achura Stargazer instead (base 8i 9m).
The lower charisma hurts your social/trade skills (which to be quite honest are not a major SP sink, so it's ok), but helps you get more points into p/w, so training for a barge isn't that troublesome as on the minmatar.


So, for you, I'd probably recommend an Achura Stargazer Engineer, with +3m +2i custom points (8p, 10i, 12m, 6w, 3c).
You get +4i and +2m and a +2% from learning skills right off the bat, so your starter effective attributes will be:
8.16 per ; 14.28 int ; 14.28 mem ; 6.12 wil ; 3.06 cha.
___

Of course, you might want to pick Caldari Prospector instead of Engineer, the skillpacks are better for "pure mining".
However, in the long run (since you want to get to mining barges ASAP), Minmatar Engineers have the best head start.

Baycee
Posted - 2008.01.31 17:22:00 - [134]
 

Thanks allot!

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.02.01 22:26:00 - [135]
 


Also, in case you may be wondering, I've made a few skill plans for combat-oriented characters, with quite a heavy load (think, one and a half years of training or so), up to almost complete "mastery" of racial command ships, all corresponding weapon systems and even medium-sized drones thrown into the mix.

The few character choices and attributes linked to them that kept popping up again and again ?
Caldari Achura Monk Executive Commander or Engineer with 12 per, 8 wil, 8 int, 8 mem, 3 cha
Amarr Khanid Cyberknight Engineer with 14 per, 8 wil, 6 int, 6 mem, 5 cha

Note: the Executive Commander choice for Achura is only about 1% better long-term as Engineer, and only because of extremely low starting Charisma, and is pretty much on par with the Khanid Engineer

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.03.02 11:13:00 - [136]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 02/03/2008 11:15:17

Monthly bump Wink

P.S. I have asked the mods for a sticky months ago, haven't asked a second time, and never received a reply Crying or Very sad

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.03.02 18:11:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Tiberyya Za
Military pilots need Perception for offense and ships plus Intelligence for defense and support. (Gallente need to splash Memory for Drones.) Charisma is useful for getting better rewards from agents.

Industrial pilots need Intelligence and Memory for mining -> refining -> manufacturing, and Perception for your mining barges, cargo ships, etc. Charisma is useful for selling your products.

Willpower is my choice for drop stat.


Unless you're training T2 ships, for which it is primary. Wilpower is my lowest stat (base 4) and it can take a while to train up T2 ships.

Glantris Bok
Posted - 2008.03.18 21:59:00 - [138]
 

What should I start with for a Minmatar NPC-Kill missioner!? Thanks!

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.03.19 14:17:00 - [139]
 

You start with no standings whatsoever, so in that regard, the game does not care what race/bloodline/speciality you are, only what you do (what missions you run).
Since the starter systems for all schools are not *that* far apart (and it should be quite safe to travel just about anywhere), there's absolutely no problem in picking a non-Minmatar character to run Minmatar missions.

For better or worse, Kestrel/Caracal/Drake/Raven are still arguably the overall best mision-runner ships for L1/L2/L3/L4, so any starting SPs towards their use (i.e. a Caldari character) is a welcome addition, but not a necessity.
The only caveat here is that, as a mission-runner, in case you plan to have it a solo runner, you do have a small need for charisma-based skills, a couple of those in Social.
However, since there's too little actual benefit from bringing the higher ranked ones to L5, and the fact you can manage just fine with only L3 in most of them for a long time anyway, absolutely nothing speaks against a very low starter charisma.

So, basically, what I'm saying... just about any of the "Achuran builds" will do just fine.
Pick Engineer if you do not care about early combat performance yet are more interested in fast developement (Prospector just doesn't have that many useful skills), pick Special Ops if you want to get into missions right away (Soldier would be quite a waste of skillpoints, since you're not likely to ever use any turrets whatsoever any time soon, or at all, for that matter).


Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2008.03.23 11:10:00 - [140]
 

Just wanted to say thanks - really good guide for a new player, gives a good start and description/conversation about starting stats.

Appreciate you keeping this up to where it can be found! :)

AKTwisted Evil

Tyriana McLoren
Caldari
The Republic of Free Trade
Posted - 2008.03.24 17:29:00 - [141]
 

o/ Akita!

Shouldn't this be worthy of stickydom somewhere?
I thought I'd seen it glued once before in the New Players area or something.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.03.24 23:25:00 - [142]
 

That's one of my other threads Wink
The "EVE Golden Rules".
New, with Silver and Bronze rules, and plenty of other advice Cool

Chag Gradur
Posted - 2008.04.18 00:45:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: Chag Gradur on 18/04/2008 00:45:23
Great Guide!

So a balanced character (Gal/Min 8/8/8/8/7) is not a particularly good choice in the long run? I have been thinking of creating an alt with those stats and being just as undecided with my main as I will be with my alt, I chose a balanced sheet. But from what I can read, being "balanced" won't actually help me in the longer run (6 months - 1 year)?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.04.18 01:48:00 - [144]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 18/04/2008 01:53:30
Originally by: Chag Gradur
So a balanced character (Gal/Min 8/8/8/8/7) is not a particularly good choice in the long run?

It's actually a great choice in the "average run", namely about one year down the road.
It does however suffer a bit in the very early stages (only a tiny little bit tho', not that much, is actually a lot better than most specialised strat starts in the early phase), and it does suffer quite a lot in the very late stages (think 3-5 years down the road or longer) compared to a specialised char.

Like I said, sadly, charisma is a heavily under-rated attribute.
The skills that have charisma as one of the attributes influencing them are either heavily specialized skills (fleet command leadership skills, corporation management, heavy trading, etc) or work very well already at lower-than-5 levels (you won't feel a big difference between connections 4 or 5, social 4 or 5, negotiations 4 or 5... heck, I managed to go a long time with most of them at L3 only).
IF you plan to go that very specialized route, then yeah, sure, go wild on charisma... otherwise, it's just a waste... I mean, come on, wouldn't you rather have 4 extra attribute points where it matters and "suffer" from a slightly lower training time for the minimal social/corp/leadership/trade skills you NEED to train ?

In the very long run, perception is the single most important attribute right now, and charisma the single least important attribute.
And again, for emphasis, when I say "really long", I mean 4-5 years or more.
Besides, there's no guarantee CCP won't just go up and atom and introduce a bunch of desirable charisma-oriented skills... unlikely, but it's a possibility.


In the end, the best way right now to pick a character is to download EVE-HQ, carefully enter the desired skillplan (do not neglect any of the skills you want to get, add them all at the desired levels), then wait a long time (I mean that, could actually take half a day for 2-to-3 year plans) until the program comes up with all the possible combinations, then sort by completion time, and go from top to bottom until you find one you like.

Barring that, minimizing charisma and maximizing perception, with the other three roughly balanced... you just can't go all that wrong. So, for instance, a 10 per, 8/8/8, 5 charisma character would be quite awesome. Same goes for a 10 per/int, 8 mem/wil, 3 charisma character, I'd say right now it's probably the best mid-term all-rounder.
But the 8/8/8/8/7 char is not bad either... you won't particularly excel at anything, but you're pretty much "nerf proof" no matter what CCP might be throwing at us skill-wise as charisma fodder in the future.

P.S. I'd like you to take a second and think about how a poor Gallente Intaki Diplomat with 3 perc, 8 int, 9 mem, 6 wil and 13 charisma is faring with spaceship command skills, especially after (almost) finishing most (even remotely relevant) charisma-related skills.
Heck, he can't even bring those leadership skills to bear properly unless he trains for command ships or capitals, which... guess how perception/wilpower intensive they are Wink

Compared to that character, the 8/8/8/8/7 character you mentioned is looking pretty darn good Twisted Evil
Yes, even if both finish all learnings.

Beretta Reign
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2008.04.18 03:06:00 - [145]
 

great guide..I just created this char, with 12 percep, 9 int 9 mem 8 char and 7 will..sounds like I'm in the well-rounded category..we shall see..

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.04.18 09:10:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 18/04/2008 09:38:03

Originally by: Beretta Reign
great guide..I just created this char, with 12 percep, 9 int 9 mem 8 char and 7 will..sounds like I'm in the well-rounded category..we shall see..

Nonono, you miscalculated something Wink
The sum of the attributes you just listed is 45, not 39.
So, you listed the ACTUAL attributes, not the BASE attributes.
The extra 6 points are from the learning skills you got as part of your basic skill package (one L4, one L2).
Everything you see writen about in here is about those 39 base points, not the 45 effective you start with nowadays.


P.S. Since you mentioned it's "this" character (which the forum says is in Federal Navy Academy), it could be either a 8p/9i/9m/5w/8c or a 10p/9i/9m/3w/8c base attribute character.
Since there's no Gallente with 3 base wilpower, and there's no Gallente wit 5 base willpower either, so it's a 4-base willpower Gallente, and you added a custom point into willpower yourself.

Most probably it's a Gallente Gallente Miner, with +3 int, +1 wil and +1 mem (8p/9i/9m/5w/8c), with Soldier training.
In other words, a bit too high on charisma, a tad bit low on wilpower, and could use a bit more perception.
In case I was right and it was Gallente Miner Soldier, and assuming you want a combat-oriented career (based on the fact you picked Soldier, but I could be wrong) you probably would have been slightly better off with +2p +2w and +1i as custom points (final base stats 10p/7i/8m/6w/8c)... but that's still a bit too much charisma.
Gallente characters all have a horribly high charisma (7 is lowest with one exception), and the only 6-lowest-base-charisma Gallente is Intaki Reborn, which has the huge flaw of 3 base perception.


P.P.S. So... if you INSIST on picking a Gallente character for combat, personally I'd recommend Gallente Jin-mei Jing-ko.
Either with (10+2=)12 perc, (5+3=)8 int, 5 mem, 7 wil and 7 cha if you want it slightly more gunnery-oriented, or 10p/(5+3=)8i/(5+2)=7m/7w/7c if you want him slightly more drone-oriented or a better all-rounder.

As for the school, either Special Forces (can start training for cruisers right away, can use 5 light drones right away, all with maximum travel speed too, some marginally decent fiting skills too) if you plan to dig right into the fray, or maybe Engineer (very good fiting and tanking skills for a fresh starter, but very nasty in the ship/weapon department... good learning skills though, for a quickstart on learnings).

Beretta Reign
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2008.04.18 13:14:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 18/04/2008 09:38:03

Originally by: Beretta Reign
great guide..I just created this char, with 12 percep, 9 int 9 mem 8 char and 7 will..sounds like I'm in the well-rounded category..we shall see..

Nonono, you miscalculated something Wink
The sum of the attributes you just listed is 45, not 39.
So, you listed the ACTUAL attributes, not the BASE attributes.
The extra 6 points are from the learning skills you got as part of your basic skill package (one L4, one L2).
Everything you see writen about in here is about those 39 base points, not the 45 effective you start with nowadays.


P.S. Since you mentioned it's "this" character (which the forum says is in Federal Navy Academy), it could be either a 8p/9i/9m/5w/8c or a 10p/9i/9m/3w/8c base attribute character.
Since there's no Gallente with 3 base wilpower, and there's no Gallente wit 5 base willpower either, so it's a 4-base willpower Gallente, and you added a custom point into willpower yourself.

Most probably it's a Gallente Gallente Miner, with +3 int, +1 wil and +1 mem (8p/9i/9m/5w/8c), with Soldier training.
In other words, a bit too high on charisma, a tad bit low on wilpower, and could use a bit more perception.
In case I was right and it was Gallente Miner Soldier, and assuming you want a combat-oriented career (based on the fact you picked Soldier, but I could be wrong) you probably would have been slightly better off with +2p +2w and +1i as custom points (final base stats 10p/7i/8m/6w/8c)... but that's still a bit too much charisma.
Gallente characters all have a horribly high charisma (7 is lowest with one exception), and the only 6-lowest-base-charisma Gallente is Intaki Reborn, which has the huge flaw of 3 base perception.


P.P.S. So... if you INSIST on picking a Gallente character for combat, personally I'd recommend Gallente Jin-mei Jing-ko.
Either with (10+2=)12 perc, (5+3=)8 int, 5 mem, 7 wil and 7 cha if you want it slightly more gunnery-oriented, or 10p/(5+3=)8i/(5+2)=7m/7w/7c if you want him slightly more drone-oriented or a better all-rounder.

As for the school, either Special Forces (can start training for cruisers right away, can use 5 light drones right away, all with maximum travel speed too, some marginally decent fiting skills too) if you plan to dig right into the fray, or maybe Engineer (very good fiting and tanking skills for a fresh starter, but very nasty in the ship/weapon department... good learning skills though, for a quickstart on learnings).



Hi Akita, yes, I chose miner..12 perception does seem low, in retrospect. I've got 2 char slots open, lemme play around a bit and see what I come up with..again, great guide, it's really helpful.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.04.19 17:58:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Beretta Reign
Hi Akita, yes, I chose miner..12 perception does seem low, in retrospect. I've got 2 char slots open, lemme play around a bit and see what I come up with..again, great guide, it's really helpful.

Like I was saying, it's all about base attribute values.
You didn't have 12 base perception, you only had 8 base perception, and +4 from learning skills.
As far as perception goes, 12 BASE perception is quite damn high (the average is 8, 9 is good, 10 is very good, 11 is awesome, 12 is extremely high, and 14 is the maximum possible in this game... however that means you have big holes in other attributes, and early on you need a wide variety of skills, not just perception-main ones).

The reason I keep stressing that "BASE" value is the fact that all L4 basic learnings, L3 advanced learnings and +3 implants (for a grand total of +10 to all attributes, actually +10.8 if you also include L4 learning) are very easy to come by and train / plug in relatively early on, which makes the initial school choice learning levels granted nearly irrelevant.
In the not so long run, only BASE attribute values matter.

Bidermaier
Posted - 2008.05.30 11:55:00 - [149]
 

Hi. I am new to eve. After learning a lot i have noticed that my Amarr Amarr character is not exactly very well rounded.

My atributes are

Inteligence 9
Perception 7
Charisma 4
Willpower 15
Memory 11


Could you help me to desing a better Amarr Amarr character?


I want a character for the long run. I dont want to use more than one.
I think i will feel confortable doing mining for a while but also doing missions with other people when i want something more exiting.
After mastering (or getting bored of) mining i would like to move to different things, trade, production.
I am not a competitive player, but i guess sometimes i will want some PVP fun.
I know that Ammar Ammar is not the most balanced race, but that is what i want to stick to. Please help me to choose the right bloodline, user atributes and profession so the character is as balanced as possible.

Thats it.
Thanks!!!



Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.30 18:11:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 30/05/2008 18:20:27
Originally by: Bidermaier
[stuff]
Inteligence 9 / Perception 7 / Charisma 4 / Willpower 15 / Memory 11
[/stuff]

Well, first of all, read THIS thread about things you can do to make a living. Just a warning, I intensely dislike mining (personally, I find it to be the most boring thing you could possibly do in EVE, except maybe gatecamping on a gate nobody goes through), so the guide is slightly biased against it... still, the basic facts are quite accurately depicted.

Second, like I've already told quite a lot of people in this thread already, you should try and list your BASIC attributes, those that sum up to precisely 39. Your listed attributes sum up to 46, so it's 7 levels of learning (or the starter 6 levels plus one +1 attribute implant) you have mentioned there.

Like it's mentioned in the beginning of this thread, what you want to do for a "long-term" character is look on the table provided, going from top to bottom, and stopping at the first (or maybe second) race / bloodline that appeals to you, selecting that one, and then manually applying attributes according to expected future needs (either to alleviate a lack of one particular attribute you might need in your chosen line of work, or enhance a strong, desirable one).

Of course, feel free to look around as much as you like and pick any other, but if you insist on being Amarr and a decent all-rounder, you can't go wrong with a Khanid Cyberknight.
Amarr Khanid Cyberknight base attributes ?
Perception 11, that's quite impressive from the start, you can leave it like this usually (or you can push in up to +3 custom points in it if you want to go very seriously into combat later on, especially if you plan to cross-train a lot).
Intelligence 6, not particularly high, but not very low either, so you might want to add at least 2 custom points here, maybe even three, up to you really.
Memory 4, so this is quite nasty. Since
Willpower 8 is about average, I'd say don't touch unless you think you'll want to get quite a few specific T2 ship-related skills up to L5 in the future... and even then it's probably better not to.
Charisma 5, you want this as low as possible anyway, so leave as it is.

So, for Amarr Khanid Cyberknight, you're torn between a low mem which screams for a +3 in it (all the basic learnings, everything mining and industry related plus all the drone skills have it as primary), a slightly below average intelligence (every enginerring/electronics/mechanic skills have that as primary) and the desire for some extra perception for those really nasty second or third "T2 large gun", maybe the third or fourth "L5 battleship" crosstraining sessions.

Personally, I'd recommend on a Khanid Cyberknight a +3 memory and +2 intelligence, for a finishing P11/I8/M7/W8/C5, which looks pretty damned nice and well-rounded.
As for school to pick, if you have some cash on you right now to spring for some implants and learnings, I'd strongly suggest either engineer or even prospector instead of anything else (ignore the attributes, look only at the skills on the picture, add the appropriate learning to the starter attributes from above - and you can also train Cybernetics L1 as soon as you first log in with either of them).


P.S. Of course, if you are really serious about mining (I hope you aren't), then you might want to pick another character (i.e. not khanid cyberknight) with slightly higher mem/int scores.
But first you should read that thread I linked and decide what you wan to go for.
Still, that one above is a pretty decent all-rounder, with a light combat focus, so you really couldn't go too wrong if you picked it.


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