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Cass Daystar
Posted - 2007.09.06 01:23:00 - [61]
 

Hi Akita> Wow. Great thread! Good work.

I just posted my own question on training an industrial/mining/research alt - and then I saw your post.

I am closing my thread down and I will repost my question here.

Originally by: Cass Daystar
Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could tell me what is the best character build for a new industry/mining/research alt? I know they aren't necessarily completely compatible skill sets, but I don't want to make 2 new characters.

Here are some of my goals:

flying transport ships (T2 haulers)
flying a freighter
mining in a hulk

I also want to set him up for basic production - with a long term goal of doing full blown production

I also want to be able to do research.

Does anyone have any specific suggestions on a new character build?

Gallente - Intaki - Reborn, or Caldari - Achura - Inventor?
Industry - Prospector or Business school?

Also - if you have some suggestions on skills and skill training priorities (I know, it probably completely depends on my needs with this character, right?). Well, if you were going to do this for yourself, what would you do? What skills? What order? You don't need to list them all here, but just a general idea would really help.

Example:
Train Cybernetics to IV - get into standard implants
Train all learning skills
Train basic hauler skills - so you can fly a hauler (which race is best to train for at first?)
Don't bother training mining skills until you have the skills to pilot a covetor...

Or feel free to wax poetic on this!

Thanks. Any input is appreciated!



Slayton Ford
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.09.06 02:42:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Cass Daystar
Hi Akita> Wow. Great thread! Good work.

I just posted my own question on training an industrial/mining/research alt - and then I saw your post.

I am closing my thread down and I will repost my question here.

Originally by: Cass Daystar
Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could tell me what is the best character build for a new industry/mining/research alt? I know they aren't necessarily completely compatible skill sets, but I don't want to make 2 new characters.

Here are some of my goals:

flying transport ships (T2 haulers)
flying a freighter
mining in a hulk

I also want to set him up for basic production - with a long term goal of doing full blown production

I also want to be able to do research.

Does anyone have any specific suggestions on a new character build?

Gallente - Intaki - Reborn, or Caldari - Achura - Inventor?
Industry - Prospector or Business school?

Also - if you have some suggestions on skills and skill training priorities (I know, it probably completely depends on my needs with this character, right?). Well, if you were going to do this for yourself, what would you do? What skills? What order? You don't need to list them all here, but just a general idea would really help.

Example:
Train Cybernetics to IV - get into standard implants
Train all learning skills
Train basic hauler skills - so you can fly a hauler (which race is best to train for at first?)
Don't bother training mining skills until you have the skills to pilot a covetor...

Or feel free to wax poetic on this!

Thanks. Any input is appreciated!





Best way to go for industrial is Caldari Achura Inventor Prospector. Get enough for +3 implants, do your learning to +4 each and you'll be getting 2300 sp/hour in Int/mem skills. For ships, train Gallente Industrial for Itty 5.

Passin Through
Posted - 2007.09.06 03:03:00 - [63]
 

I saw "sebiestor trader" mentioned above.

What is the best race/blodline to be a trading type person?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.09.06 08:54:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 06/09/2007 09:09:00
Originally by: Passin Through
I saw "sebiestor trader" mentioned above.
What is the best race/blodline to be a trading type person?

If you're looking strictly at a trading alt (one that could just as well never undock from his station because he can do everything remotely), be aware you're going to need logistics support almost certainly, and you probably want some combat support too.
The reasons ?
Broker fees and refining fees at NPC stations, which either get down a lot (broker) or vanish completely (refine) depending on character standings with the owner NPC corp (so, basically, you have to do missions).
It might not sound like much to you right now to get from 0.8% to 0.2% broker fees, or get less than a 5% "we take" number on refines... but trust me, when you operate at very low profit margins compared to volume traded, those "things" can either make or break your career, depending on wheter you have them or not.

Of course, you can always increase standings without even undocking, by ganging up with a mission-running alt and completing the missions "in a duo", and you can use a hauler alt to make all needed transports for your trade char.

Now, with this in mind, and only in this case of you also using other alts to support the trade-specced alt, the best race/bloodline/ancestry for the heavy trader role award goes to Amarr Ni-Kunni Free-merchants.
The base values are 12 charisma (used as primary by pretty much all trade and social skills you might need except broker relations, and there it's secondary), however you'll need to work on mem/wil a bit too, as they're really low secondaries.

However, there's only so many skills that can be learned in trade and social that affect you... and after you cross the 10 mil SP boundary (with most of your SP in trade, and some in social), you'll find that you have pretty much completed all your training... so now, you wished you picked a different character, as training anything else is so damn slow.


So, in closing, maybe the "all 8s except one 7 somewhere, even charisma" would be the best long-term bet for "solo trader" types.For trade alts, definetely max-out charisma at 15 base though.

Originally by: Cass Daystar

I was wondering if anyone could tell me what is the best character build for a new industry/mining/research alt? I know they aren't necessarily completely compatible skill sets, but I don't want to make 2 new characters.
[...]stuff[...]


You do mention hulk, T2 transports and a freighter, so you can't totally neglect perception and willpower.
You say mining, industry and science... well, those ARE much more related as you seem to think (reprocessing skills are the same as advanced mining skills, T2 manufacture skills are the same as basic research and invention skills), and they have memory and intelligence in common, even if reversed.

Well, at least you didn't include trade skills and leadership support in your list of things you want Wink
Up until here, it's bleedingly obvious you should take an Achura character.
You need an int score comparable to mem, and you need more per as wil.

For that reason, inventor is not the best for you, Stargazer is.
I'd suggest +3 int and +2 mem as custom attributes, for 11 int, 11 mem, 8 per, 6 wil, 3 cha starting base attributes.
School, definetely prospector (L4 instant recall, L2 analytical mind, L3 science enabling L1 Cybernetics in minutes), and have the ISK ready for a set of +3 implants and advanced learning skills.

Cass Daystar
Posted - 2007.09.06 11:53:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Cass Daystar on 06/09/2007 13:07:34
Edited by: Cass Daystar on 06/09/2007 12:56:14
Edited by: Cass Daystar on 06/09/2007 12:04:59
Edited by: Cass Daystar on 06/09/2007 12:01:29
Originally by: Akita T
...
For that reason, inventor is not the best for you, Stargazer is.
I'd suggest +3 int and +2 mem as custom attributes, for 11 int, 11 mem, 8 per, 6 wil, 3 cha starting base attributes.
School, definetely prospector (L4 instant recall, L2 analytical mind, L3 science enabling L1 Cybernetics in minutes), and have the ISK ready for a set of +3 implants and advanced learning skills.

Ok, thanks, but...

Wouldn't it be better for me to try to max out my INT/MEM attributes, since most of my profession skills are INT/MEM (not counting the painful ship skills I will need to train).

If this is the case, then wouldn't the Inventor be better?

NOTE: all "split" values listed are referring to INT/MEM respectively.

If I am going to spend all that time in INT and MEM skills, would it be worth it to go Inventor and try to max out my INT attribute? I can end up with a 15/8 INT/MEM split, or 14/9 split.

With Monks I can get 10/11 or 11/10.

With Stargazers, it drops to the 11/11 split you suggested (or 10/12 if you go +2/+3).

I was thinking that overall, the 14/9 split would be best for a researcher (and all INT-based skills) and should be almost as good as the 10/12 split for MEM-based skills that I could get with a Stargazers.

Am I right in the math on that last point? That secondary skills are only at half-value for determining skill point progression? So, for determining effectiveness of skill training for MEM-based skills:

a 10/12 Monk split would give me the full 12 points for MEM and 5 points (10/2) for the INT attribute, for a total of 17, correct?

a 14/9 Inventor split would give me the full 9 points for MEM and 7 points (14/2) for the INT attribute, also for a total of 16, correct?

If I am correct in assuming this, then the 14/9 split would have the added advantage of training all those science (INT-based skills) at a much faster rate (18.5 vs. 16), correct?

Please feel free to correct my math.

EDIT: FYI - it appears the offline character generator at coldfront is not working (http://eve.coldfront.net/char). It uses pre-revelation character development stats.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.09.06 13:37:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 07/09/2007 02:38:57

Depends on how much of your planned skills are int/mem as opposed to per/wil.
If you would have said only "science character", it would have been obvious, choose inventor.
But you listed a good deal of other desires too.

The ones you mentioned involving perception and willpower ?
For starters, the hulk (barge, rank 4 P/W L5 ; exhumers, rank 5 W/P, you want L4 at least, preferably L5 too), the transport ships (racial industrial, rank 4 P/W L5 ; for freighter, spaceship command, rank 1 P/W L5, advanced spacedship command rank5 P/W, preferably at L4 and then racial freighter rank 10 P/W, again preferably at L4), and you'll want to also have (almost mandatory, actually, since inertia is life for transport ships, and every bit extra is a boon for freighters) decent navigational skills (navigation rank1 I/P and evasive man rank2 I/P, both to L5, rest are ok at L4). Also, for hulk, you really also want T2 mining drones, so that's again a bit of perception involved (drones rank 1 M/P L5 mandatory, mining drone operation rank 2 M/P L5 mandatory, drone interfacing rank5 M/P refered to L4 or even L5).

You're already looking at around 5 mil SP or more that are heavily influenced by perception mainly, willpower second, memory a little bit and only minimally intelligence.
Also, depending on desirable industrial skills (all processings to L4, that's 55 ranks, so 2.5 mil SP just here ; PE5 obviously, advanced mass production L4, mining, ice mining and mining upgrades L5 ; industry, mass prod, refining and ref. eff to L5 are prereqs to other stuff listed), that's at least 6 mil SP right there into M/I skills.
So, almost 11 mil SP in which int is NOT the main contributor so far.
In science, most skills you have could just as well remain at L4 for a long time, and only focus on a handfull of L5s... but true, later on, you will want more L5s.

Also, whenever making any calculations at all for a longer skillplan, you can just default in assuming the start of your training will include L1 cybernetics (and +3 implants), then L4 basics and L3 advanced learnings in almost all cases (charisma is listed as trained and implanted even if you usually don't do that), and those you "care" about will get better implants (need higher level Cybernetics for that though) and higher levels of training (including L5 learning, the non-attribute one).

So, for a 11 i / 11 m / 8 p / 6 w / 3 c char, in the timespan of a week or so, you're actually looking
at a 22.68i/22.68m/19.44p/17.28w/14.04c char.
Would you go with inventor +3int +2mem, you'd be having a base 15i/8m/7p/6w/3c char, which after minimal training
becomes 27.00i/19.44m/18.36p/17.28w/14.04c character.

Yeah, it could be a viable alternative, IF you play it long enough to get the most out of your SP/h gain in science skills (8% approximately, if you stop at L4/L3 learnings, LESS if you keep going on with learning) as opposed to the SP/h loss in drones, spaceship command and industry.

This character selection of inventor as opposed to stargazer would start paying off slowly somewhere around 16 mil SP total (or even higher if you do your learnings to L5 basics / L4 advanced, more like around 18 mil SP then), so in all cases only more than one year after creation IF you include your "wishlist" in the trained skills.
Before that, you'd be better off with the stargazer.

Cass Daystar
Posted - 2007.09.06 15:42:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 06/09/2007 13:41:38

Depends on how much of your planned skills are int/mem as opposed to per/wil.
If you would have said only "science character", it would have been obvious, choose inventor.
...
Yeah, it could be a viable alternative, IF you play it long enough to get the most out of your SP/h gain in science skills (8% approximately, if you stop at L4/L3 learnings, LESS if you keep going on with learning) as opposed to the SP/h loss in drones, spaceship command and industry.

This character selection of inventor as opposed to stargazer would start paying off slowly somewhere around 16 mil SP total (or even higher if you do your learnings to L5 basics / L4 advanced, more like around 18 mil SP then), so in all cases only more than one year after creation IF you include your "wishlist" in the trained skills.
Before that, you'd be better off with the stargazer.

Wow, Akita... That's ummm... just WOW.

Thanks! Great analysis. I appreciate it!

I decided to go with the long term plan - since this is my 3rd character anyways.

I went Inventor with the 14/9 split. I am currently sitting at 19.76/16.64 (according to EVE MON) at about 3 hours into my character's life.

I did one quick analysis in EVE MON to test out if that extra point in PER and 2 more in MEM with 3 less in INT (your Stargazer suggestion) would make a big impact on my long term plan.

What I did is insert all of the ships I intend to fly, including the T1 industrials for each race. All mining ships were taken to V and the freighter and transport ships to IV. I also added all of the concievable modules that would be most useful on transport and mining ships - and included the basic combat mods, like T2 MWD to 10mn size.

Then I played with the implant calculator and decreased my INT while adding the appropriate amounts to PER and MEM. A 200 day plan was only a day and a half different with those new attribute values - and I didnt add in any of my Industry and Science skills to the list - which would skew the results even more to the high-INT plan - like you suggest.

Anyways, thanks for the help. Nothing like a 100mil experiment with an alt that I pretty much HAVE TO KEEP now! Your thread made it so much easier to do!

Thanks

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.09.07 02:41:00 - [68]
 

Hey, always glad to help Wink

Meioh
Posted - 2007.09.07 13:52:00 - [69]
 

Hello Akita T. First of all I have to say that I greatly respect your guides and effort spent into the Eve community. Everything I've read from you has been interesting, full of wisdom and facts, throughly an enjoyable read, and this guide is no less impressive. Now, after reading it, I would like to ask you for some advice.

Funnily enough I chose Caldari Achura Monk with a 9/9/9/9/3 spread back when I created this character, which would be my second main (my first, Gallente Intaki, retired). Went straight to learning and got 5 on all basic and 4 on advanced, full set of +3s. While I love Eve and don't see myself quitting in the foreseeable future, I really do believe that advanced level 5 are not worth it. Anyway, this character is mainly combat oriented + the necessary combat support skills, and she doesn't go outside of that barring a few exceptions, and this attribute build suits her just fine.

However, about a month ago I decided that I was very interested in "acquiring" instead of "making" it (Wink), and decided to create an industrialist alt. I went with Caldari Deteis Merchandiser with 6 Charisma 10 Intelligence 5 Perception 13 Memory and 5 Willpower. I have no idea why that seemed like a good idea at the time. Nevertheless, a month after, she has all level 5 basics and 4 advanced, full set of +3s, with some decent mining and refining skills because I chose prospector, can only fly a Bantam though Neutral. The plan was to have a single industrial character that would be relatively self sufficient and would handle everything from mining to research, production and distribution, with some hauling thrown in there. Needless to say, I was extremely naive. After reading up on all the information I could find on industry for month, I had a much clearer picture of what was involved, but it also determined my resolve to participate in it full scale.

Now, what I want to know is what would be needed (in regard to Alts and skills, and how to maximize their specialization) to establish a small to medium to large scale T1 production operation as fast as possible, as self-sufficient as possible, and with maximum potential (in regards to overall capacity and future T2 production). I'm fully aware that self sufficiency will hinder efficiency, but I'm prepared to deal with that if it means me being personally involved in all the links of the supply chain. My long term plan is to create an industrial corporation, then I can delegate tasks and increase production, but until then it's all me.

My current plan involves 3 characters, one of them being the Caldari Deteis mentioned before, focused on mining and refining, getting a Hulk and fitting skils with eyes on a Rorqual in a distant future, a manufacturer, with PE, Industry, factory slots skills and hauling, and a researcher, with science, research and lab slots skills. I think that would cover all the bases in a relatively short amount of time. I already got a trader alt so I could use her for distributing, but her trading skills or attributes aren't the best (she was made to be a station squatter). The miner has a pretty clear path to follow (her attributes aren't the best but she's like 3m SP, mostly learning, I don't want to waste her, but honestly I don't know if should be the miner), and with the manufacturer I'd maximize efficiency, slots, then go for the hauling skills, then start getting the skills needed for T2 manufacturing. On the researcher I'd go for efficiency, slots and then go for the R&D agent running skills, which include the T2 invention ones and some really minor Social ones. After the researcher and manufacturer start overlapping on T2 stuff, I'd cross train the slot skills just to have more slots available.

If you somehow manage to read all that, could you give me your take on it all? Such as the overall viability of it and what builds would benefit specialized characters and such. It would be much appreciated.

Meioh
Posted - 2007.09.07 14:04:00 - [70]
 

I also have a old alts of mine with no significant skills, but some learning.

Caldari Achura:

Base Attributes
Charisma 3
Intelligence 8
Perception 11
Memory 6
Willpower 11

Not very smart of me. Instant Recall, Analytical Mind and Learning all 5, Spatial Awareness 3, no advanced skills or implants.

Gallente Intaki (Another one)

Base Attributes
Charisma 8
Intelligence 9
Perception 7
Memory 9
Willpower 6

Analytical Mind 5, Instant Recall, Learning and Spatial Awareness 4.

They were both made sometime before the increase in starting SP, and both had less than 800k at the time so they got bumped to it with some skills, but they still had significant (in proportion) learning. My quetion is, is it worth it to try and salvage any of these for my future plans?

My apologies for cluttering up the thread.ugh



Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.09.07 17:36:00 - [71]
 

Thanks for the vote of confidence Wink

As for your situation... hmm, tough call. I might just confuse you more, but here goes Razz
Depending on circumstances, you might be better off training your "main" in industry and science, not keeping any alts at all... up to going ahead with all three.
The main argument in favor of your main doing all the training is that it has most learnings done, already has implants on, has most of the support skills up to scratch, decent overall attribute spread, but probably most important, it's very likely (if it was a mission-running alt) it has loads of good standings with various corps.

Breaking down the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM necessities for each "activity", we have something like this...


Miner : Industry 5, Mining 5 (optional, Ice mining 5), Mining upgrades 4-5, Astrogeo 5, Barge 5, Exhumers 4-5, Refining 5, Refining Eff 5, Metallurgy 4-5, all relevant processing to L4, and decent standings with NPCs owning the station you do refining in

Rorqual pilot + mining gang support : Leadership 5, Warfare link specialist 5, Mining Director 5, Mining Foreman 5, Cybernetics 5 (and the foreman mindlink implant plugged in), preferably also L5 in armor/skirmish/info/siege warfare (and at least L4 in all warfare specialist skills you plan to have links of), Production Efficiency L5, let alone the skills you need to fly and properly operate the Rorqual itself, the industrial core module, and each of the "compression" blueprints (L4 in corresponding processing skill).

T1 manufacturer : Industry 3+, Production Efficiency 5, Mass Production 5, Advanced Mass Production 3-5 (yes, that's all)

capital manufacturer : same as above, but Industry 5, Mechanic 5, Capital manufacture preferable 5 too (again, that about does it)

T2 manufacturer : same as T1 manufacturer, plus Industry 5, Science 5, Electronics 5, Engineering 5, Mechanic 5, Frigate construction 5, Cruiser construction 5, probably in the near future also "battleship construction 5" (doesn't exist yet, will almost certainly come with T2 battleships), ALL sciences to at least L1.

Researcher ("datacore mining") : Science 5, some of (Electronics 5, Engineering 5, Mechanic 5) depending on research field, CHOSEN sciences to L5, Research 5, Laboratory Operation 5, Research Project Management 5, Connections 5, Negotiations 5... then, of course, grinding up the relevant standings for agent access.

Researcher ("inventor") : Science 5, Electronics 5, Engineering 5, Mechanic 5, Electronic Upgrades 5, Hacking 2, relevant sciences and encryption methods skills to L4 (apparently, L5 on sciences is "broken" right now, screwing up invention chances, getting worse results as with L4).

Hauler : Industry 5, racial industrial L5, Spaceship Command 5, Advanced Spaceship Command 1+, Transport ships 1+, racial freighter 1+

Seller/Trader : Trade 4, Marketing 3+, Procurement 3+, Retail 5, Wholesale 3+, Broker Relations 5, Accounting 5... also, preferably, L4+ margin trading and as much levels of daytrading as you think you might need... then again, decent standings with any NPC corp and faction you plan to place any orders in their stations.



Of course, if you're planning to operate in a privately owned 0.0 outpost, all those comments about "needing standings" for all but the "datacore miner" are irrelevant.
In all other cases, your best bet is to "compress" all other characters that require standings (the "refiner" part of the miner, the "datacore miner" and the trader) into a single character, then the rest of them in a second (or even third) character, as you see fit.
For the Rorqual, unless you have at least 2-3 other mining characters tagging along, and you're doing some heavy-duty mining, it's really not worth getting one (especially since it's lowsec-or-0.0 only).


Well, not sure how much it helped you, but as you can see, it really, really depends on too many factors.

Meioh
Posted - 2007.09.08 00:12:00 - [72]
 

It was very helpful, I am extremely grateful for the advice.

Ideally I would love to have a single character focused on industry, but when I added my skill plans to a character skill calculator, the result is that I would take me an incredible amount of time to do anything on my own. The reason why I thought of having several simultaneous alts was that I would be able to reach self sufficiency a lot sooner and at a lower average SP than with a single character. At the beginning some skills might overlap but medium to long term I can branch them out and overspecialize each. The refiner, researcher and the trader all need good standing, but thankfully that is something that I can grind, unlike skills.

With 3 alts I could cover all the bases relatively well enough in a lot less time. I'd be ready for T1 production and BPO research and copying, as well as mining, quite soonish, and I'd be grinding standing meanwhile. From then on it's just getting the T2 production and invention skills, while the miner, arguably the most skill intensive, heads off to the higher tiers of mining, ships and support skills. The Rorqual is more or less a very long term goal. Initially I plan on having a high sec operation, but in the future I'd like to form or join an industrial corp to have access to a bigger scale of operation and 0.0 access, that's when it would come in handy. Until then it's just increasing yield and getting into a hulk.

In more detail I'd probably go for something like:

Miner: All the stuff from Halada's guide, it's pretty clear cut, it would then evolve into Rorqual and support skills for group mining operations. I think this is the most skill intensive of the 3.

Manufacturer: Production Efficiency, Industry, Mass Production, Advanced Mass Production, then the spaceship command skills for hauling and transport ships, then the science and mechanics skills needed for T2 production. In the long term I'd add the skills needed for more lab slots, research efficiency, invention and R&D agents, which somewhat overlap with the T2 construction skills, just so I can have more concurrent research and invention jobs, and more datacores.

Researcher: Science, Research, Metallurgy, Sci Networking, Lab Op, Adv. Lab Op, then the R&D agents skills which pretty much include the invention ones. In the long term I'd go for the factory slots, manufacturing efficiency, and the mechanics skills for T2 production. If I really need it I'd just throw Cov Ops for scouting somewhere in there, or more hauling in the end, I doubt it though.

And that's it I think, but I'm surely missing or overlooking something. According to my no doubt inaccurate calculations (more of a guesstimation, really), in about 2.5 - 3 months (counting learning) I could cover everything involved in T1 production, from mining, refining, researching and copying BPOs, to manufacturing and moving the goods to the designated point of sale, be it for retail or as part of an order. Some time after I'd be ready to tackle T2 production, but the barrier there is not so much skills as it is capital, logistics and infrastructure (I'd need access to low sec/0.0 unless I buy the materials), so I might put this off until I get a stable enough operation to launch it, which might be after forming/joining a corporation. All in all my goal for them is to have some synergy between them to allow more stuff to be done and faster than with a single character for an operation with just me behind the helm, while having a lot of potential to become great and valuable assets to any type of multi-man industrial corporation operation (which is ultimately my goal).

Deadly Morph
Caldari
Fist of Eargon
The Jagged Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.11 17:15:00 - [73]
 

Ok well my char is 1 year old but i only been paying for it for the last 2 months im going into my third

I have got well...

i forgot but i got 22 perception :)

I can train my Cruser skill from lvl 4 to lvl 5 in just about 22 days all to about 1.1 mill skill points

Yet i die every 3 days with my BC or raven i only got about 2.7 mill sp

I use a raven to do more damage and rats faster in 0.0 to get my gtc faster but basicvly im killing and making ISK for my next death to get a new ship lol

But i do make the isk i need but i cut it very close

Evil or Very MadDeadly MorphTwisted Evil

WaResD
Posted - 2007.09.12 16:50:00 - [74]
 

Hello, I am in need of making 2 cyno alt's do you have a good (fast path) that I may fallow?

Kazuma Saruwatari
Posted - 2007.09.12 20:30:00 - [75]
 

Why is this not stickied yet?Rolling Eyes

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.09.13 23:47:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: WaResD
Hello, I am in need of making 2 cyno alt's do you have a good (fast path) that I may fallow?

The best you can get is L4 electronics on character creation, which is less than 1/5 of the SP needed for L5 electronics, which is a prerequisite for cynos.
In other words, it really doesn't matter all that much.

Quickest though should be as a Caldari character, Achura inventor, +3i and +2m, with PROSPECTOR training (under "Industry").

Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
Why is this not stickied yet?Rolling Eyes

I ask myself the same thing.
I've mailed the mods as I've been told you should, never even received a negative reply in over a month (or was it longer?).

Rivaa
Posted - 2007.09.18 14:46:00 - [77]
 

Thanks for the good info.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.09.25 08:35:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Rivaa
Thanks for the good info.

Any more questions of clarifications needed, ask away Twisted Evil
P.S. Stealth bump.

Farrow Lon
Posted - 2007.09.28 03:21:00 - [79]
 

Amazing guide... SOOO easy to follow for a new eve player such as myself. Only 1 question really. I have played before. But I never really gave the game an HONEST try. Even though i absolutely loved the game too many things were comming out and i never stayed. However I now wanna play and stay for good. Thing is the thing i hear the most is "Specialization" is key when trying to keep up with veterans and i WOULD like to specialize in an area of combat and i would like to mine and trade on my off time. I don't wanna be "stuck" in only 1 aspect of such a diverse and filled with opportunities game like this. Problem is being a brandy new know nothing character how do i know what to specialize IN and what types of specialization options are there for me... I loved your guide and i really think one of the versitile builds will be great for me whome wants to experience everything i don't wanna end up feeling "watered down" know what i mean?

anywho thanks to everyone in advance for your help! (and sorry for spelling i'm tired :()

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.09.28 09:34:00 - [80]
 

Well, there's two ways of "specializing"... first, there's normal specialisation, and then there's "maxing out".
Because the "L5 prerequisites" are usually low-rank, and because a L4 skill takes roughly 5 times less as bringing it to L5, you can easily "specialize" in several fields... but it takes a damn long time to "max out" that field.
__

So, it depends what you want to "be decent" at, and what you want to excel in.

For instance, mining.
There's two ways of "going at" with mining.

First one, easiest for combat-oriented characters, would be to just train the bare minimum skills for a battleship (even if you usually fly battlecruisers/cruisers/frigates), then L4 mining, a bit on mining upgrades, a few levels of astrogeology, and just REFIT your battleship for mining (Miner IIs, MLUs, coprocessors).
It pretty much forces you to mine in a jetcan and have a "sidekick" hauling for you, and it's mostly a "dead end" for that (can never hope to NOT use jetcans).

The second approach is to go directly for mining barges. It takes quite a bit of training (skill-wise) that's not combat-oriented, but a Retreiver (which is lightyears cheaper as a battleship) can mine roughly as much as a low-skills battleship, with the added benefit of a generous cargohold.
Next step, the Covetor, is fairly nasty to train for (two L5 skills of relatively high rank), but will outmine most mining battleships, and have an even more generous cargohold... plus, you'll be within spitting distance (skill-wise) from a Hulk... granted, it does cost as much as a battleship, but then again, properly fited it will chew through asteroids like there's no tomorrow, and best of all, has a HUGE cargohold (8000 m^3 base, expandable to around 17k m^3 with fairly expensive rigs/modules), so you can even forget about jetcan mining and mine semi-AFK (come back at the KB to dock, unload, and go back to mining every quarter hour or so, just hope you picked a couple of high-yield asteroids so they don't pop).


As for combat itself... hmm, tough one.
Really depends on WHAT combat you want to pursue.

PvE is quite easy, and the easiest path is either Caldari Battlecruisers (Drake, my personal favourite, "upgradeable" much later on to Nighthawk) or Caldari Battleships (Raven mostly... and as bonus, Rokh, the best "mining battleship" in the game, almost on par in yield with a Covetor... and not half-bad as a fleet ship either), but either way, as weapon system, missiles (and a bit of drones).

For PvE, Caldari is "easy mode". Low skill requirements, great versatility, etc.
For PvP however, that's a quite different situation and a world of confusion.

Personally, I'd advise you to pick either Gallente or Minmatar ships.
Gallente ships tend to be quite decent in PvE too (the drone boats, Vexor, Myrmidon, Dominix), and pack a mean punch in solo PvP (the blasterboats).
Minmatar though... much faster (ship speed) and their ships are arguably better in group PvP (although they have some amazing solo ships too)... but the training for their ships is quite rough, skill-wise, almost forcing you to excell in gunnery(projectiles), drones, missiles, and both shield and armor tanking.

Amarr is the red-headed stepchild of EVE at the moment, having seen some early glory days but fallen into disgrace.
They have serious issues early on, but can become quite formidable with maxed-out skills.
The greatest attraction is the "use no ammo" weapons (only with T1 crystals, the faction/T2 ones wear down eventually and vanish), which can mean an extended stay anywhere (since you never have to resupply)... and with skills (and agains the "proper" opponents, meaning those weak to EM) they can be awesome PvE craft.


Of course, again, a reminder : you don't have to pick a certain race as your character if you want to fly that race's ships.
For instance, an Amarr engineer can easily get into Gallente ships and perform well... and so on and so forth.

Calvin Firenze
Minmatar
Caeli Veredictum
Posted - 2007.09.28 15:39:00 - [81]
 

Good read, I thought I picked an extremely well rounded character myself, but when I made my character I said "I DUNNO WHAT I'M DOING" and put 1 point on each attribute and called it good. As a result, with +4 implants my stats are currently:

16.5 Charisma (Mission ***** when I'm bored) :p
24.2 Intelligence
23.1 Perception
23.1 Memory
20.9 Willpower

Not too shabby if I may say so myself, but also not the best. :)

Ty Hem
Rage Academy
oooh Shiny
Posted - 2007.10.07 22:55:00 - [82]
 

This thread needs a sticky. ~~

FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:02:00 - [83]
 

I've been thinking about starting a new character, since I want to train a pilot with Amarr ship skills, but cannot find the time in any of my existing accounts to work in Amarr training. And, with this "power of 2" thing, it's more affordable.

This character would be focused purely on combat - both PvE and PvP. I see from your list that Amarr Khanid is a decent choice for a character from the Amarr race. Would you suggest going for Amarr Khanid?

Or would I be better off going with one of the Caldari Achura variations?

If so, which of the Achura characters and professions is going to have the least amount of "wasted" starting skills. Obviously, as Amarr, I don't need a lot of starting skills in Shields or Hybrids(although missile skills could be somewhat useful for some of the Khanid Mk2 ships).

I'll mess around with this later, once I get home, but I would love to hear some of your insight before I roll a new character.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:24:00 - [84]
 

Amarr Khanid Cyberknight with 13 (11+2) Per, 9 (6+3) Int, 8 Wil, 4 Mem, 5 Cha
Engineer training yields excellent armortanker skills, and a +4 int, +2 mem learning-based boost.

Caldari Achura Monk with 12 (9+3) Per, 10 (8+2) Int, 8 Wil, 6 Mem, 3 Cha
Not so great of a skillpack for an armortanker, but at least you get 2 points shifted from Cha to Mem, and a slightly more balanced Per/Int distribution.

Either of the above is just peachy, I'd say... for you, probably the Amarr would be best.
Can train Assault Ships almost right off the bat, get into one in a coupld of weeks tops... and already have most of the support skills for it (well, not the weapons, but most engineerings anyway).

FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:01:00 - [85]
 

Thank you, Akita. On my way home to play with the character creation.

Keta IV
Posted - 2007.10.25 20:05:00 - [86]
 

So for a combat fighter from the above:

Caldari Achura Monk with 12 (9+3) Per, 10 (8+2) Int, 8 Wil, 6 Mem, 3 Cha

is a wise choice?

I just started and made a Gallente Military, Soldier...

Stats: Cha:8, Int: 6, Per: 18, Mem: 4, Will: 10

From what I understand this character is gimped and since it is only a day old I should start again...

my goal is to do command/internal security missions for ISK, and I would like to solo/gang pvp down the line...

please advise, as the pure volume of information is giving me a headache but I am very interested in getting on with the game... Thanks =)

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.10.25 21:38:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 25/10/2007 21:40:57
Originally by: Keta IV
I just started and made a Gallente Military, Soldier...
Stats: Cha:8, Int: 6, Per: 18, Mem: 4, Will: 10

In order to have 18 Per without implants nor extra learning from the starter pack (+4 per in learning skills), you would have had to have 14 per base, and even with +3 custom, there's no gallente bloodline/ancestry combo that starts with 11.
As for willpower, the base might be 8 (you get +2 in learning as soldier).
I suppose you are Gallente/Gallente/Immigrant then ?
10+3=13 base perc (+4 school, +1 implant would explain the difference), 6 Int, 4 mem, 6+2=8 base Wilp (+2 school) and 8 cha ?

Well, you COULD keep playing with it, it's not extremely gimped.
This is the BEST Gallente bloodline you could have possibly picked.
The only way you could have made him better is if you would have placed those custom attributes as +3/+2 Mem/Int or Int/Mem, even Int/Per instead of Per/Wil like you did.
You're definetely not totally gimped, but you're not close to full potential either.

You could either reroll as one of the above proposed ones, or you could reroll as the same but place custom points differently... but that only since you're so close to your character's life start.
Given a little time, it would have been pointless to reroll, as it's not THAT bad as you seem to think it is... especially once you would have been "done" with most of the learnings (that would have been the MOST painfull part for your char TBH, with that 4 base mem and barely 6 int).

Keta V
Posted - 2007.10.26 17:11:00 - [88]
 

Thanks for the suggestion, I did end up rerolling the same character with the extra points going into what you suggested 3Mem/2Int...

Thanks again...

Garborg
Caldari
Posted - 2007.10.28 16:46:00 - [89]
 

Why is it that I can't see the first page of this thread anymore?

Arson Fowl
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:40:00 - [90]
 

Akita, thanks for this very informative post that has helped a noobie get his bearings,

I am a 3 day old Caldari Achura Soldier Inventor that will be going down the fighting, missioning, ratting and eventually, pvp path.

I read this post many times and decided on this starter setup.

Intelligence 14 base, +2 skills, +1 implant. Total: 17.68
Perception 10 base, +4 skills, +1 implant. Total: 15.60
Willpower 6 Base, +3 skills, +1 implant. Total: 10.40
Memory 6 base, +2 skills, +1 implant. Total: 9.36
Charisma 3 base, +0 skills, +1 implant. Total: 4.16

I currently have Analytical mind II, Instant recall II, Iron Will III, Learning II, Spatial awareness IV and just basic implants as you can tell. I can't afford the 4.5 million implants.

My goal with this character is to be an effective rat killer and mission runner. Then I would like to have a decent pvp setup one day.

The reason I chose inventor was the +4 to intelligence, was this a smart move?

Do you feel that I have messed my character up? If so, I am only 3 days old, so its no biggie.

Off topic: I am also training up to get salvaging, and cpu and power grid upgrades which is slowing down my training in learning.

Currently, 31 skills, 891,874 SP
with Gunnery at V and Small Hybrid Turret V

Any advice would be great.


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