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blankseplocked Trust & loyalty? You mean, online?
 
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Sahneschnitte
Amarr
Meltd0wn
Posted - 2007.03.25 21:11:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Sahneschnitte on 25/03/2007 21:09:19
Edited by: Sahneschnitte on 25/03/2007 21:08:49
some words

*snip*

I think demcracy dosent realy work. U can vote yes... But if the Ceo has the hangar rights and it goes not his way there is all time a chance that the Vote is effektless.


As long There is no punishment for crime, u had to be carefull all the time.





Ps: to much politcs in this threat ...

*snip*
Why not investing your Money into schools and bringing " Knowlegde " then bomb with the newest and modernst technolgy?

Play Chess or Eve to end up your Agressions Laughing

Removed references to real life politics. -Ivan K

Barkel
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2007.03.26 06:38:00 - [62]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. - Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])

WetRain
Minmatar
The Executioners
Capital.Punishment
Posted - 2007.03.26 08:03:00 - [63]
 

I trust the guys i can beat the **** up in real life... only them Twisted Evil

Admiral Pieg
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.03.26 09:34:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: WETRAIN
I trust the guys i can beat the **** up in real life... only them Twisted Evil


Hehe.. this is the golden rule of any mmorpg. Im sorry but trust has no place in mmo's. Sooner or later some **** is gonna screw you over and excuse his actions with the "its just a game" phrase.

I played ultima online with some guys for almost 6 years and i didnt trust any of them with my assets. Some guy from my school played it for a week or so and i put full trust in him, i loaned him a bunch of stuff and even made him co-owner of my house. Im not saying that my UO buddies werent good people, its just that i dont trust anyone online because of aforementioned reasons.

MiIes Naismith
Amarr
Guru Clan
Posted - 2007.03.26 19:27:00 - [65]
 

*snip* - please don't bring real life politics into this. -Ivan K

Shosei Weitang
Amarr
St. Bernhard
Posted - 2007.03.26 21:32:00 - [66]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. -Ivan K ([email protected])

Sobic Kurophsky
Caldari
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2007.03.26 22:32:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Sobic Kurophsky on 26/03/2007 22:32:20
Going back to the main point....

I would leave all RL examples out of this because my life is by no means in danger if I side with one corp or another. Unless there some anti-whatever serial killer out there.
That being said, I've seen a lot of people think that a "Charter" and "Councils" can do it all and in application it simply does not work that way.
This is a game with people playing from all walks of life and verious ages groups and experience in dealing with people.
Something that is very cool in EVE is that REAL leadership skills come into play. Which from experience I have seen that very few people have and want to know how to lead.
Its really a learned skill and some people have inherent skills that help them be better leaders in one way or another. Meaning some are great combat leaders and some lead a business very well.

So basically it comes down to the people and thats it.
Dictatorship works if the person on top is honorable and smart and puts his alliance and winning first.
A democracy works if your lucky enough to have a group of people that can work together and have counter balancing abilities.

In the end I trust my RL friends in EVE first and everyone else based on there efforts done that I didn't ask them to do.

EVE evolves quickly and takes proactive open minded plays with a RL attitude to win and the experience and work ethic to back it up. Call the system whatever you want.

Kashre
Minmatar
Imperium Technologies
Sodalitas XX
Posted - 2007.03.27 01:00:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Sextus Licinius

1. Fear makes a human being decent, but in an uncontrolled virtual environment with no punishment for any crime, no one really cares about anyone, everything is just business and product exchange and everyone plays behind a mask (some even choose to be slaves).
.


Fear makes people who lack a decent nature act decent... that's why we have laws in the real world.

But DECENCY makes a decent person decent. There is a seriously major distinction there. From a cynic's point of view that probably just translates into fear of God or something, but still... there are people in this game who are actually trustworthy. And just like in real life, there's no way but experience to really tell one type from the other.

Asylum Seaker
Minmatar
Celtic Anarchy
Force Of Evil
Posted - 2007.03.27 01:09:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Asylum Seaker on 27/03/2007 01:07:30
Edited by: Asylum Seaker on 27/03/2007 01:07:03
Eve also has the advantage of a pretty good average intelligence for its users. Certainly better than some other MMOs, and perhaps real life. And it is intelligence that lets good democracies work.

"I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law."
- Aristotle

edit:
Of course.. it is intelligence which makes a predator deadly or a thief successful.

Daelin Blackleaf
Gallente
White Rose Society
Posted - 2007.03.27 07:25:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Sobic Kurophsky

Dictatorship works if the person on top is honorable and smart and puts his alliance and winning first.
A democracy works if your lucky enough to have a group of people that can work together and have counter balancing abilities.


And there is the problem, for a dictatorship you need only a single smart and honorable person, for a democracy you need the entire group to be smart and honorable.

People change, people have bad ideas, even the brightest of us can be pretty darn dumb sometimes, and even the buddy you believed you could trust after 3 whole years can stab you in the back.

A good dictatorship can only change with the retirement of the dictator or a shift in his personality / policies. Easy to spot, easy to leave. Again, vote with your feet.

A good democracy (probably an oxymoron there though) can be changed by just a few bad apples swaying popular opinion, by a topic coming up people decide on emotionally rather than sensibly, and of course every time a person joins the corp the command structure changes in a subtle way since every opinion must be considered. Not to mention the damage a small number of alt-spies can do to such a corp should they gain a little respect.

Ivan Kirilenkov


Caldari
ISD YARR
Interstellar Services Department
Posted - 2007.03.27 08:15:00 - [71]
 

Please keep to the subject, and don't bring real life examples into this.

Motorcycle Emptiness
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2007.03.27 11:30:00 - [72]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. - Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])

RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2007.03.27 15:37:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 27/03/2007 15:40:29
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Democracy definitely fails in eve. Eve has given me a whole new perspective on the dictators throughout history. How many of them were evil, and how many just did what they had to do get the job done?




With all due respect...while some of the social/leadership perspectives of EvE can have a general translation to RL analogs for some fun appreciation of history....analyzing leadership qualities and governmental styles between an online game and reality is a bit of a naive assumption and one heck of a leap to make.

Unfortunately the forums being what they are it is not really possible to discuss this here. Should we happen to swing through local at the same time I'll elaborate...complete with book list (yeah...bookworm here Laughing)after the guns cool off of course YARRRR!!

As far as I can tell....the "benevolent tyrant" and "mafia" models seem to work best in EvE and both are very similar.

With regard to trust...there has to be some element of it in EvE or you may wind up doomed to boring solo play.

Then again....I'm a grunt...which means I own crap...meaning I have little to lose if I get burned Very Happy. And I prefer it this way not having to worry about the safety of valuable pixels Cool


Sufjan Stevens
Amarr
The Water Margin
Posted - 2007.03.27 15:48:00 - [74]
 

Big problem in eve is if you steal from someone you wont goto jail, only thing you got to lose is your rep

hybridundertaker
Amarr
coracao ardente
Posted - 2007.03.27 18:39:00 - [75]
 

There have allways been ppl i trusted and ppl who i have trusted in game even thou i dont know even their rl name. There have been ppl who have trusted me. All this imaginary world doesnt mean much if u cant have good feeling about it and share em wheter it about a gank a fleet fight or mining ops. Betreyal and thievery of imaginary assets are in reality sad for the traitor because the group that got stolen can recover their goods but the traitor will never recover hes feelings.
Also i dont think ppl who steal and cheat in games belong to prison like rl thieves do but many cases do belong to appropriate mental instititions. I mean imagine bunch of kids playing monopoly then one of them suddently grabbing the cards and paper money and sprinting away with it... just to win the game?

WetRain
Minmatar
The Executioners
Capital.Punishment
Posted - 2007.03.28 09:37:00 - [76]
 

2 kinds of ppl in eve : the people that reflect their personality from RL in GAME
the people that do what they cant do in RL ( steal, hump roids bang cybergoats and stuff)

Daelin Blackleaf
Gallente
White Rose Society
Posted - 2007.03.28 09:57:00 - [77]
 


Don't really understand the complete *snippage* of all RL related comments here. When discussing government and politics within a large group of people your only point of reference is RL present and history. People are real.

Very few political models have been tried here but they all relate to a real world equivalent and you can bet people were thinking of such equivalents when they organised their command structure and policies.

It strikes me as saying, "If it hasn't been done here don't discuss it."

Again with the issue of trust real world comparisons must be drawn, people are lead to be trustworthy or untrustworthy based on past experience and environmental factors, without discussing witch you cannot establish what kind of on-line environment can nurture trustworthyness (sp) or if such is even possible.

I agree that if the thread were to devolve into "my political system is better than yours." comments or national slurring then moderation is in order. Unless I've missed something amongst the *snips* I don't believe the thread has reached that point.

Sextus Licinius
Caldari
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2007.03.28 13:16:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Rebellion
Edited by: Rebellion on 25/03/2007 03:56:21
Originally by: Sextus Licinius
Example: You think Molle's empire runs on trust? You think he would be ready to lose his tens of thousands of dollars, i mean isk sry, because some nerd with his finger up his nose and the other one in his rear starts stealing titan and mamaship BPO's?


Just because you can't trust your people doesn't mean we can't trust ours. It just means that you're a poor judge of character. Furthermore, just because you sell isk for real money doesn't mean we do too.

If you can't trust your corporation in EVE, you will not go very far. I don't blame you for not understanding why that is. Given that you think this is "Molle's Empire" suggests that you cannot think very well. Oh, and yes, we do operate on trust. We have since the beginning. It is why we are still here.

Nice troll. Don't make your corporation look even more pathetic than it already is. Don't give advice to other EVE corporations that would just make them worse. "Not trusting" is not the answer, but rather a correct placement of trust.


One can't tell people what to think, but can surely talk about it so everyone can share their experience to better avoid anarchy in their turf. Why do i need to explain this to you, is not an esoteric concept. Is ok to be young and rebellious, i expected a bitter BoB reply.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.03.29 15:57:00 - [79]
 

Fear doesn't make people decent; at best it makes them temporarily obedient.


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