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Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2007.08.05 18:08:00 - [421]
 

Prehaps you missed the part somewhere where the game should be build around macrominiers, that instead of bending around them, ccp needs to act with anti 3th party programs (like blizz,) that track, record and ban people using macroes to influance ingame activity?

also, I never asked for safe stuff, the 100% immunity.
I asked to balance it a bit more.

Doing lvl3's in empire in a BS, average cost: 200mil for a perfect ship that does it easy without dieing.

Hulk: same, 200isj mil for ship + fittings, and yet the safe empire ratter doing the lvl3's earns 10x as much as the miner, has no danger what so ever (no lvl3 breaks trough 2LAR II's tank, or a good fitted raven/drake) Infact the miner has a lot more risk right now, because of ore thieves.

The balance isnt all to well. All I'm asking is to, for one, make mining more enjoyable, right now the only posible way to get top money (that isnt even compared to mission running) is to jet can mine. This gets harder every single day as people realise more and more how increadably easy it is to flip cans, while beeing in a command ship, wait for the agression timer to go by, then haul. Hey free cash!

Secondly, The amount of minerals that gets poured into the marked is just way to much compared to the mins a miner gets.

Why should mining not be made more enoyable? And, prehaps a bit more profitable then 3mil/hour.... This doesnt mean more ore/min, but rather a more balance to the ammount of mins that get poured into the market by reprocesing the mission loot.

If by all means, this means nurfing loot drop, be my guess. Imo, miners should still be the sole income of minerals..

Gretek Lal
Minmatar
Fractal Holdings Ltd.
Posted - 2007.08.05 20:22:00 - [422]
 

Originally by: Toda Toranaga
We are not asking to make industry easier. We are asking for it to be IMPROVED, for it to MAKE SENSE (barges and exhumers looking tough, but being weak, roid' scanners, tiny cargo bays filled within one cycle, etc.), and for it to be generally, all around, more ENJOYABLE. Instead, the improvements only help those who are wealthy and in power.

Strange how CCP sometimes seems a lot like a government running some country in which the citizens are constantly divided and arguining on issues that one would think should be relatively simple...


I know that I'm absolutely wasting my time, because nothing is ever going to change, but I'll just quote this person because I agree.

CliveMerric
Posted - 2007.08.05 22:29:00 - [423]
 

It would be great if this ever got fixed. 2 months to train for hulk then you make much much less than someone else who trained a BC for a month and runs lvl 3's. This NEEDS to be fixed
signed

HighlanderUK
Interstellar Business Machines Corp.
Posted - 2007.08.06 11:28:00 - [424]
 

I would agree with most of the changes, i don't see why we should be penalised for using sub-par mining ships, that are mostly restricted from trial accounts anyway, and the Devs have not boosted the anchored storage cans past a GSC in more than 3 years.

At the very least, barge/exhumer cargo holds should be expanded, and larger indy cans created for anchoring -- just fit a 30day time limit to stop systems getting cluttered with anchored cans, 3900m3 is **** poor. Mission runners get all sorts of goodies/loot/modules, we miners have had the same setup/routines almost since day one, with the exception of barges/exhumers, some leadership skills and finally T2 expanders

p.s. for some real fun to annoy the thieves, when they steal from your can (in light of crap storage in GSC's)or wreck, the miner should receive a pop-up window asking if he/she wishes to report this incident to Concord, and for them to take the appropriate action!! That would be shear entertainment from our perspective.

Galdaron xax
Gallente
Cloak and Daggers
High Treason Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.06 12:31:00 - [425]
 

As far as i can see you got 2 type of players who do mining

The first does it because he can do it alone its easy no hassle he is relaxed perhaps mining in a hauler to suck on a big rock while perhaps watching a DVD.
it a pure easy solo activity. you get some isks no hard work

Then you have the guy's who train up for it. start in a mining frig go over to a mining cruiser or jump into a barge inmidiatly (like i did) train their skils up to max out a covetor ( a hulk was 500 mil then way to expensive to buy)
heck we even learned up for the tech 2 strips an crystals.
so whats left ? gang up get mining forman, mining director but then you loose all the bonusus from the skills you have personnaly to mine because your in a command ship. solution get a corpmember to train up and ride protection (wich is needed in 0.0)
make him get mining dir and mining forman
in the end you have miners maxed out in skils doing covetors and hulks. your setup is the same als all the other miners because there is no other way to go..you wil be mining in group for more profit . But and here is the big but you need other players to join you. well I don't have always time to spend 2 to 4 houres to suck the roids .
so you mine allone for a few cycles alone with a hauler standing by in station.
and in the end you need to learn skills that are no longer mining oriented because you got it all.
And the second big but is that most strip activities of most empire corps leave the belts in such a diminished state that it is no longer fun to go mining. because they are empty or only scraps are remaining (except for all the yellow cans that clutter the overview :( ) You even feel sorry for the rats patrolling these empty belts...

one of the fun part I would like to see in the game is that you need to use the scanner to find the roids but give us a chance to find a shawdow type rock to mine heck perhapse one roid of the higher class ore so miners can have the same luck feel as ratters or mission runners. Or push the roids into betls we need to scan out with the ship scanner like the new hidden plexes. Those are fun to do . The best way now for a miner to get acces to good ore is to do missions and mine the missions .Some contain large roids of pyro others omber.. and even Veld is welcome aslong it doesn't pop after 1 mining cycle... (and yes I'm happy with low grade ore. been living in 0.0 for a wile now and best I found is jaspet :( )

I admit I get my kicks out building the ships my corpmembers need to defend space or to have fun.Heck I even started a bpo collection so I could produce everything I need.
To bad my mining needs are capped now. So I guess the only thing I'm saying here is more choise is more fun, and I pay to have fun , don't we all :)



Kindra Blades
Cybernetic Innovations
Posted - 2007.08.06 16:21:00 - [426]
 

If you look at the new things being added, there is this alliance, for security sakes, we'll call them Robert ;)

Robert has space so large and spread out...wait, now we have jump bridges. Only for sov 3's so just anyone cant use them.

Most new things being brought in are PvP or combat oriented, nothing for miners, I do believe Robert doesnt mine, so he needs not worry there about no new toys for mining. Pure speculation, I know.

ok enough on Robert, and back to the other new things in game.


Mining, a barge has 3 highs and hardly any powergrid. "they can defend themselves" ok....drones....wtfe. Jet cans, as they say, werent made for jet can mining. But when you can jettison a can that has 3900m3 or one that has 27k m3, I'd go with the 27k. Oh wait, theres another problem. Anyone and everyoine who claims they are a pvper can come steal from this jetcan. The asteroid belts are on overview settings, so anyone who knows all they have to defend themselves from is drones, and scrams. Its n/p though since the shells of the barges are cardboard boxes. Let them attack, CCP wont let them defend themselves from a real threat. Why? Now I know why Robert doesn't mine, why should he when he can carry a T1 ship and, for the most part, take down a T2 (with T2 outfitted) ship. Where is the overview settings for the deadspace that a mission runner is in? Nope, not there. Where is the overview settings for the war targets located across the system? Nope, not on the overview either. The asteroid belts are though, and guess who happens to be in the belt? Its the guy the "PvPer" claims victory over because, they can steal from them and create aggro, they can suicide them with a much cheaper ship, no donuts in an asteroid belt, so I guess concord wont be hanging out there either (unless of course the suicide took place beforehand). Now, I ask you, who is the bigger carebear? The guy solo mining (knowing nothing will be done to improve their chance of survival) or the guy with the cheaper ship that can take down the miner, just because he didnt have enough raisins in his raisin bran that morning rather than looking for an actual fight? Sure, the miner could bring "security", but does a mission runner have to have a miner onhand taking down level 4's? I have characters for all aspects of the game, but find mining, which people say is only for carebears, to be the toughest since, you have to sit for hours on end to build a ship as an industrialist (after finding all the ore you need for the minerals). While the guy out knocking out a level 4's or plexes can spend less time and simply buy what he wants without the additional hazards of someone simply warping to one of the overview settings in a combat ship and stealing what he wants.

Mission runners also get the advantage of finding certain items in high sec, yet a miner has to further put themself in harms way by acquiring certain minerals from low sec space. I ask you, wheres the balance?

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.08.06 17:02:00 - [427]
 

Originally by: Guilliman R
Secondly, The amount of minerals that gets poured into the marked is just way to much compared to the mins a miner gets.

Why should mining not be made more enoyable? And, prehaps a bit more profitable then 3mil/hour.... This doesnt mean more ore/min, but rather a more balance to the ammount of mins that get poured into the market by reprocesing the mission loot.

If by all means, this means nurfing loot drop, be my guess. Imo, miners should still be the sole income of minerals..


Even if it pains me, as I have perfect recycling, he is right.

It is totally absurd that I can recover 100% of the minerals that are put in a module, without any wastage. Reprocessing loot should give less mineral than what was put in the module to build it.

To compensate for the loss of revenue for mission runner other form of compensation should be used.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.08.06 17:09:00 - [428]
 

Originally by: HighlanderUK
I would agree with most of the changes, i don't see why we should be penalised for using sub-par mining ships, that are mostly restricted from trial accounts anyway, and the Devs have not boosted the anchored storage cans past a GSC in more than 3 years.



Larger hold for the barges exumers (or better an extra low slot for all of them, now that the mining upgrades are going to be stack nerfed), is a good option.

Sadly larger GSC aren't a good idea, as they are even more useful for people BS mining than people mining in barges or exumers.

If possible I would greatly prefer an option that help more people mining in "proper" mining ships that in "converted" battleships.




Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2007.08.06 17:42:00 - [429]
 

Thats what I've proposed aye.

Sadly, CCP hasn't even responded yet. Makes me sad. They annaunce the mining is getting an update. We've seen a semi viable ore scanner now and a ore capital ship (for large alliences only.)

I'm hoping that atleast the next patchnotes will have something in terms of the average barge miner. Hopefully atleast

Please ccp, atleast tell us you're reaing this, and tell us your oppinion on this matter.

Sessho Seki
Posted - 2007.08.06 18:20:00 - [430]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: HighlanderUK
I would agree with most of the changes, i don't see why we should be penalised for using sub-par mining ships, that are mostly restricted from trial accounts anyway, and the Devs have not boosted the anchored storage cans past a GSC in more than 3 years.



Larger hold for the barges exumers (or better an extra low slot for all of them, now that the mining upgrades are going to be stack nerfed), is a good option.

Sadly larger GSC aren't a good idea, as they are even more useful for people BS mining than people mining in barges or exumers.

If possible I would greatly prefer an option that help more people mining in "proper" mining ships that in "converted" battleships.


Actually, thanks to this post, the mining upgrades won't be stack nerfed in no small part to the mining community collectively gathering a lynch mob in response to the suggestion of such silliness

While perhaps not the most polite tack to take it clearly accomplished the goal of effectively shaking CCP's decision on the matter by the neck until they saw reason, most especially when the explanation 'for' the unnecessary nerf was used against them to effectively say: if you're going to nerf mining for that reason, then you are obligated to give mining all the benefits associated with that same reason too since that's the purpose of making it all supposedly fair.

CCP's folks likely thought it over for all of about two seconds and realized that to add everything to mining to make it comparable to combat would be a monumental task, and all for a silly stacking nerf they know isn't anywhere remotely close to necessary in any way, so with the prospect of so much work ahead of them that wouldn't directly benefit their alts, it's understandable that they would of course avoid such distasteful work like that.

Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2007.08.06 18:33:00 - [431]
 

A small victory for us miners, but a victory indeed.
I do hope CCP doesnt consider this act as "finished", There's much more to be done with mining.

Thera Romana
Posted - 2007.08.06 18:42:00 - [432]
 

First things first yes mining needs some long awaited love, but so does most of the industrial line of work.
Mining Op Capital sounds great from what I have seen and from what I am hereing from guys on test center. Sounds like a movable mining colony. A mini-pos on the move. There are other mechanics that need to be worked on.
1. Make some mins only available through mining(you can have some that are only available through ratting as well) which will foster working together in a corp.
2. Make barges easy to stop, but increase thier tank, make it so that they dont pop with 2 shots from a BS, give time for Corp Mates to come in a rescue, you could make it to where mining shuts down in order for tank to kick, so others could still harass.
3. Add fuel to ships. Give something to mine, that cant be ratted. Add fueling capabilty to indies. Different fuels give different bonuses.
4. Only put basic ores, with basic minerals in all standing belts. All others must be found. Depending on skill level will make a difference as to belt size and types of ores in it. Not a big fan of standing belts cause it makes it way to easy on pirates, pirates are a good role play, but its way to easy on them. Warp to a system see how many people are in local then just go through the belts. By having floating belts, they would have to probe as well, scanner delay. If the pirates skills arent high enough he wont find the miners.
5. Add planetary settlement to the mix at the corp or alliance level, not all planets can be settled. Some planets could mine, some manufacture, some just produce populations. Planets could be infiltrated and sabotage. Gives room to all kinds of tactics thats not force on force.
6. Offer NPC services or contract such as security or hauling. You go to a station and purchase a beacon to set up the hauler or security. Once the beacon is placed a hauler comes out and drops a can you start filling it and it starts emptying it. If the hauler gets killed you have to redo the contract. price would vary on size of hauler and length of time. Same with security you want security drop a beacon, and securty comes out and protects your ship and assets. Price would vary on size and time. The same aspects for contract just using live people, have mechanics for items hauled under contract can be place in hangar of the miner easily.
7. Conveyor portals kind of like a like a bridge but not big enough to fit a ship, strictly for shuttling ore or salvage back to a pos with in 2 LY. Long time delay to set up and take down but once up and running , allows for mining 2-3 systems away from home POS make it so only foreman can set it up, might not need to be the capital size ore op ship, but like its non capital brother(Command ship size for mining). Capital would be for greater distance mining or larger scale ops with a bigger conveyor.

There are many ways to make mining more interesting and more competative. Alot of these would suggestions would also make it to where macro'ers would have to do a hell of alot more interaction. Only thing that would still be easy for them would be the lowest of the low ends

CCP Chronotis

Posted - 2007.08.06 19:18:00 - [433]
 

Originally by: Guilliman R
A small victory for us miners, but a victory indeed.
I do hope CCP doesnt consider this act as "finished", There's much more to be done with mining.


referencing this thread in the blog is only an indication that we read and are following the discussion and are continuing internal discussions on several fronts. When we said "we have so far only scratched the surface of what's possible", we meant it! Wink

Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where we can hope to stay on topic.






Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2007.08.06 21:01:00 - [434]
 

Well I guess a step in the right direction would be if CCP decides and lets the players know how they envision(ed) mining as a profession.

Should a player be able to mine solo?
Is it meant to be a group effort?
Are haulers supposed to be part of mining ops?
Etc.

That is, as long as there is something like a concept or vision regarding mining.
If the devs don't have any concrete idea of what they want mining to be like and rather prefer us to get creative and suggest lots of stuff, that.. would also be kinda ok'ish, but normally I prefer it if they set the direction, not the players (on the forums).

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.08.06 21:24:00 - [435]
 

Originally by: Sessho Seki
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: HighlanderUK
I would agree with most of the changes, i don't see why we should be penalised for using sub-par mining ships, that are mostly restricted from trial accounts anyway, and the Devs have not boosted the anchored storage cans past a GSC in more than 3 years.



Larger hold for the barges exumers (or better an extra low slot for all of them, now that the mining upgrades are going to be stack nerfed), is a good option.

Sadly larger GSC aren't a good idea, as they are even more useful for people BS mining than people mining in barges or exumers.

If possible I would greatly prefer an option that help more people mining in "proper" mining ships that in "converted" battleships.


Actually, thanks to this post, the mining upgrades won't be stack nerfed in no small part to the mining community collectively gathering a lynch mob in response to the suggestion of such silliness

While perhaps not the most polite tack to take it clearly accomplished the goal of effectively shaking CCP's decision on the matter by the neck until they saw reason, most especially when the explanation 'for' the unnecessary nerf was used against them to effectively say: if you're going to nerf mining for that reason, then you are obligated to give mining all the benefits associated with that same reason too since that's the purpose of making it all supposedly fair.

CCP's folks likely thought it over for all of about two seconds and realized that to add everything to mining to make it comparable to combat would be a monumental task, and all for a silly stacking nerf they know isn't anywhere remotely close to necessary in any way, so with the prospect of so much work ahead of them that wouldn't directly benefit their alts, it's understandable that they would of course avoid such distasteful work like that.


TY for the link. A 3rd low slot on barges would have been a good thing, as it would increase cargo space without need of rigs (I usually repackage the hulk to move it), but now it would create some balance problem.

I still think that it would be better to increase the barges/exumers cargo space (an the mining frigate and cruisers too) instead of adding larger GSC. I feel it would keep a better balance between the people using BS to mine and those using mining ships.

With larger GSC the BS pilots will ony need to anchor them and fill them, using the superior manovrability and speed of the bs (relatively to barges) to move rapidily between containers, so avoiding the drawbacks of jetcan mining and of a small cargohold.

The slow barges will instead have greater problems moving from a can to another.



Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2007.08.06 22:16:00 - [436]
 

Edited by: Guilliman R on 06/08/2007 22:20:14
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Guilliman R
A small victory for us miners, but a victory indeed.
I do hope CCP doesnt consider this act as "finished", There's much more to be done with mining.


referencing this thread in the blog is only an indication that we read and are following the discussion and are continuing internal discussions on several fronts. When we said "we have so far only scratched the surface of what's possible", we meant it! Wink

Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where we can hope to stay on topic.









I just had to quote you :) Thanks for confirming this here, and also moving it away from the "general crowed"

also, mandetory have my babies <3


Back to topic; Mining

To the post above,
Thats why I proposed to have barges a fairly large 'ore only' cargo bay. It would remove the need to have haulers for it yes, but. Those who wish to gain top efficiency out of mining will still use an alt and haul while mining. Those who cant do that will not be so far away by the logistic gap between the one with a friend hauler and the one solomining on his coffee break. Sure there still is a difrence, it's balance, but right now, the only option to really mine with barges is either hauler alts or jetcan mining and haul after.
Flying and dumping the ore takes to long compare to the time to mind said ore, and the anchored cans are just way to small (and imo, clutter the belts to much)

Cairbre 2
Gun Runners Inc
SOLAR WING
Posted - 2007.08.07 13:04:00 - [437]
 

So anyone have thoughts on when we will finally see the the ship deployed? how long after announcing a new ship does i take for CCP to actually release it?

I still wanna know how big the cargo hold will be for the compressed ore. Will the Cap Miner need to make frequent trips to a POS or station to dump the ore? if so, that might mean that miners will still need a tanking ship (for me a carrier), plus the capital miner, and hulks. i say this because if the capital miner has to leave to empty its hold, it can't also be the tanking ship (im sure it can handle the job, and it may beable to tank, but depends on the cargo hold size)

i currently have 5 alts, my main began tankin in a carrier recently and using the mining uplinks. my other 4 alts are in hulks. My corp and myself envisioned us acquiring a mother ship and being extremely mobile. with the deployment of the ore capital miner, i am tryin to figure if we will still need the carrier/mothership as a tank, along with the capital miner, and the remaining alts in hulks. my first thoughts tell me i cant use the capital miner as the tank because i will need to move the miner back n forth over a 2-4hr operation. seems ill still require a tank. will i bring back my domi to tank and mine? will i continue using the carrier? the carrier doesnt seem a smart decision with a capital miner parked near by..i can only use drones on the carrier...the capital miner can fit uplinks, drones etc...fyi, i and my corp, are in .0

any thoughts?


Lougra
Gallente
Posted - 2007.08.07 13:41:00 - [438]
 

My thought about balance.

Fighting community (ratting/pvp) has a great advantage in ship provision which mining community don't.
What i mean with that.

If you have the 365m which costs a BC BPO you heading in proper corp seller in empire, and within 1 minute youre the happy owner of a BC BPO.

Covetors in other hand.
They require ore equivalent of a bc and the cost to buy the ship is almost the same (this part is balanced).
If you want to buy a Covetor BPO you have to spend 2.000.000.000 for the BPO which can only be sold my ORE corpporation in 0.0 space. That means if you ever manage to get that amount of cash, you have to travel in 0.0 and then bring it back to empire by passing through the gate camps.
And even if you manage to do that, the Covetor it is by far inferior in defence compared to any BC or even CR.

Just for the note.
Covetors has 1/6 the shield of a ferox and 1/3 the armor of a ferox too. Conclusion? A ship which has the same cost as BC can be destroyed easily by a single frigate.

The part of mining ship provision needs a serious fix. Small cargo bays is not the only problem.

WhisperSilk
Posted - 2007.08.07 18:25:00 - [439]
 

p.s. for some real fun to annoy the thieves, when they steal from your can (in light of crap storage in GSC's)or wreck, the miner should receive a pop-up window asking if he/she wishes to report this incident to Concord, and for them to take the appropriate action!! That would be shear entertainment from our perspective.

I really like this idea. Seems like a great way to combat ore theives. Which in my mind is an exploit anyway. Or maybe should be considered Greifing, since thats all it really does is cause the miner spending hours, alot of greif.
Next I do like the idea od ORE specific cargoholds, youde think it would have been that way from the beginning. Since there supposedlly Dedicated ships.
I like the fact that a DEV finally posted after 15 pages.
Anyone claiming that mining is highly profitable, has appareantelly never done so. My main char is a hulk pilot capable, I unfortunatelly find it easier and more profitable to run L4's.
How about instead of a better scanner the roids actually size represent the amount of ore in them.. Ya know the really big ones have alot the really little ones have a little.. If you choose to mine the litle ones, its all you. I have to agree with whoever said that EVE is PVP. you are always player Vs. Player, just what style of PVP is the difference.
I would love to see a cap mining ship with refining abilities. Please CCP help out the miners and the industrialists, its a major part of EVE and one you havnt IMO spent nearly enough time on. I love small gang battle and single pewpew in Low sec.. but they dont build the ships they fly the miners and industs do.

Drizit
Amarr
Posted - 2007.08.07 19:25:00 - [440]
 

Edited by: Drizit on 07/08/2007 19:27:51
My thought was for invention to be extended. Add a points system similar to the character creation and let us invent things properly. Ships and stuff that will imbalance the game are a bit more delicate but adding larger containers and items that have no value in combat are relatively harmless.

This allows industrialists to add some interesting things to their equipment. GSC's with 9x capacity but a lifespan of two weeks. Crossing a GSC with a jetcan.

Tbear
Cave Bear Mining
Posted - 2007.08.07 21:52:00 - [441]
 

Edited by: Tbear on 07/08/2007 22:08:12
As an Industrialist and by necessity a 'miner', I concur with the improvements that Vivus Mors suggests in her original post. These changes would benefit all of us who bring in the mins for eve.


Beastofburden
Posted - 2007.08.08 00:12:00 - [442]
 

Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: Beastofburden

In my opinion, the best boost to mining is moving out to 0.0 with a corp/alliance, and seeing the ORE-Cap ship, I think that CCP isnīt all that far from me.



Obviously you're no miner.

Mining in 0.0 pays around the same as ratting with more work involved and way more SP needed.

Takes less time to train up Domi with t1 heavy drones than to train for a Hulk.

You mine, you have to figure out where and how to refine/store/sell/transport your labor.

A domi just plows rats and gets paid.

If you want to keep discussing the "balance" between mining and every other profession in the game, talk to me.

I was a professional miner until I found out exactly how hard it blows.

How hard does it blow, Cipher7, tell us please?

Mining is currently the worst paying profession in the game. You can do anything else and get paid more with less risk and less work.

It sucks the big one in about 15 different ways.


I canīt share your experience here. I have earned a lot more on my miner then on my lvl 4 mission char, and by a lot, I mean a lot. Both chars are same age, only a few 100k SP apart. On the other hand, logistics are not an issue for me - like I said, boost via corp/alliance. If you have a fitting corp, transport from 0.0 to Empire isnīt an issue, neither refining. And as far as storage/selling goes, thats what your hangar and you jumpclone are for.

I admit that mining may not be the best paying profession for everybody and every playstyle, but it certainly is for me. So donīt claim itīs the worst prof for earning, it all depends on how, where, and with whom you do it.
I also donīt argue that lvl 4 missions pay more than mining lowlevel ore in highsec.
From my perspective, mining can be very rewarding if you know how to do it right and you got the options to be actually doing it that way. And under those circumstances, the ORE Capship sounds nice.
For Empire-huggers (sorry for that expression) itīs worth a pile of wet sand, sure, but like I said, I donīt see mining in Emp as an option anyway.

Sylfamas
Caldari
Solar Nexus.
Ethereal Dawn
Posted - 2007.08.08 00:14:00 - [443]
 

Ok someone said something about a pop-up saying if you want concord to get rid of the ore thieves. THIS IS A GREAT IDEA.

First of all some things from RL : in America for example (i just give an example, i live in Romania), if someone steals from your house, that is trespassing, and you can either shoot the guy or let the police handle him. Well when in high-sec why not make this available ? CONCORD is the server-police. You can take revenge, or you can simply let the police (concord) take care of the little pest. It's simple. In low-sec though this would not be available and some risks are normal to appear.

With regards,
Sylfamas

Lougra
Gallente
Posted - 2007.08.08 05:29:00 - [444]
 

Btw you cant get revenge in a covie. Even a t1 frig with cheap eq can pop covies.




Tsuki Rashala
Enemies of the Gods
Posted - 2007.08.08 09:46:00 - [445]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
the macro miners witchhunt


If only there was an official court room for them, then I would have far less of my budget taken over by pitch forks, tar and feathers.

However, since you bring it up, can we burn them? i mean, if they float in water, or are lighter than small rocks and gravey that is?

An example of the stupidity of Macro Miners.

Any night of the week I can show you a dozen 3+ macro miner set ups, and my methods of prooving there's no-one at the helm of the ships. And I'm certain you too CCP can tell them from legit players.


Tsuki Rashala
Enemies of the Gods
Posted - 2007.08.08 09:53:00 - [446]
 

Originally by: Lougra
Btw you cant get revenge in a covie. Even a t1 frig with cheap eq can pop covies.



I have to disagree: Proof


Vivus Mors
Posted - 2007.08.08 18:41:00 - [447]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Guilliman R
A small victory for us miners, but a victory indeed.
I do hope CCP doesnt consider this act as "finished", There's much more to be done with mining.


referencing this thread in the blog is only an indication that we read and are following the discussion and are continuing internal discussions on several fronts. When we said "we have so far only scratched the surface of what's possible", we meant it! Wink

Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where we can hope to stay on topic.


I'm not sure moving the thread will do anything but let it languish and decay.

That aside however, would it be possible to perhaps shine some light on what's being brought up in those internal discussions?

Obviously names, opinions, and even specifics of the conversation are asking for too intimate of information, but 'subjects' of the discussion and any fruit developed from that discussion would be of great interest.

CCP Chronotis

Posted - 2007.08.08 23:07:00 - [448]
 

In the near future we can speak more but the crux is module duration timers are good and should be queued for some future patch. The rest I cannot comment on yet. Modules/rigs that affect mining range are fine and about the only kind that can be easily introduced. It boils down to mining needing more variables which is a long term goal.

Vivus Mors
Posted - 2007.08.09 02:41:00 - [449]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
In the near future we can speak more but the crux is module duration timers are good and should be queued for some future patch. The rest I cannot comment on yet. Modules/rigs that affect mining range are fine and about the only kind that can be easily introduced. It boils down to mining needing more variables which is a long term goal.



WOO HOO!!! Module timers Very Happy

/checks news... hell hasn't frozen over... this might be too good to be true >_> but perhaps this may not be the 'end times' after all Laughing

DeltaH
Posted - 2007.08.09 04:10:00 - [450]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
In the near future we can speak more but the crux is module duration timers are good and should be queued for some future patch. The rest I cannot comment on yet. Modules/rigs that affect mining range are fine and about the only kind that can be easily introduced. It boils down to mining needing more variables which is a long term goal.



How about a different ship type that gave up m3/sec for more cargo room? Separate from the barge family. The barges should remain the sports cars of mining, but maybe an indy miner with a large m3 room and lower m3/sec. It would reward barge pilots who form groups with dedicated haulers because they can produce more m3/sec per player, but it would allow solo miners something to do when they can't get a group and don't want to rely on jet-cans.

Just a thought. In general having a more diverse hangar besides this m3/sec > that m3/sec would be nice.


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