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Vivus Mors
Posted - 2007.03.21 18:10:00 - [1]
 

First, I want to open with the link to what I think is a pretty through compilation of what miners for the most-part would like to see in the future of EVE. I will quote much from it to make the opening posts clearly defined, and of course any ideas are more than welcome to be added, but please, if you are not an industrialist, or have no intent to be constructive, I ask that you simply not post.

Also, I want to thank all who have downloaded the first two drafts of my document, and thank all those who will download it in advance.

Request for attention and improvement of industrialism

From the other threads I've seen, as well as conversed in at great length, there is clearly considerable interest in changes and improvements for the mining and industrialist sector of EVE. Just in the thread "There is light at the end of the tunnel. A hulk.", there have been over 20,000 views in about a month's time for just that one thread.

Players want bigger, better, and more in every activity, and I am all for any improvements to EVE that are to be made, however, there is clearly a stark dichotomy between the combat portion of EVE and the industrialist portion of EVE, most especially so in the area of attention paid on improvements and additions both current and future.

This is NOT in any way a thread to say "darn warmongers, CCP tell them to bug off and work only for us now", that is in no way the intention here, this is all about merely wanting someone at CCP to look into the numerous ideas for improving EVE for industrialists, and upon closer inspection, even combat players can see considerable advantages to the improvements being suggested, particularly those that of course would apply to both combat and industry.

I want to start first in a slightly different order than my document, to establish common ground with other areas of EVE that could and would likely equally benefit from the suggested changes, that being interface improvements.

Chiefly among the ideas I've suggested, and have yet to hear any say they wouldn't like such a thing, is a:

Cycle Time Display: More or less some kind of simple clock presented above, or on top of, the icon for weapons (or even other modules). I can only draw a parallel to World of Warcraft, where anyone who plays both games knows how each ability/spell/item-time has an individual "clock" of sorts on its face that will slowly tick down until it's ready again.

The data is already in the game, and being sent back and forth already, and I am absolutely certain that VERY few, if any, players wouldn't simply love to have such a visualization. Combat players especially would likely benefit most from knowing when their next repair/boost cycle hits, or when their reload is going to be done, or when a given weapon is going to finish firing so they can swap ammo.

As far as industrialists go, miners in particular would like to finally be able to know where in their strip miner (or ice harvester) cycle they are. Either one is well known to be multiple minutes long, and players can quite easily "loose their place" in the cycle.

After that, there is the issue of making a module and its interface actually practical, the bane-of-practicality for virtually all miners, the asteroid scanner.

I've asked numerous times for changes to this, but perhaps with enough support, and/or attention from players the word can get out more.

Asteroid Scanner Interface: I'm all for the AS to have all the identical requirements that it does now, I just want the information displayed to be both immediately useful and clearly represented in relation to precisely what it's referring to. My suggestion is to simply give it a representation ONLY on asteroids you've already locked onto, as those are the only rocks of immediate importance anyway.

Vivus Mors
Posted - 2007.03.21 18:10:00 - [2]
 

As simple as it may sound, I know I would much prefer one of a few options, preferably presented immediately below the asteroid icon when locked-on.

1. a simple health bar, just like on any rat, that of course ticks down as the asteroid is emptied.

2. a plain and simple number of the cubic meters (m3) of ore left within the asteroid.

3. while less intuitive, it would be more in line with "role playing", so it's only fair to suggest a simple representation of the number of ore units themselves left within the asteroid.

As now, the asteroid scanner will cycle and update the information accordingly.

Just like with the cycle time display suggestion, all the data to make any of this necessary, is already in place, it's merely letting the players see it that is currently causing distress. While the graphical user interface would of course need some tinkering to make this happen, it's hardly asking for a complete overhaul of anything.

After interface issues, there is of course always the great handicap of all miners everywhere, and that's cargo capacity. Numerous ideas have been suggested to alleviate some of the problems associated with overly tight cargo capacities, but sadly they have thus far fallen on deaf ears.

At this point, as per my previous request, I want to request again that anyone who isn't intending to lend any constructive comments simply not post. I am certain someone is going to say something about macro-miners, and I simply don't want to have this thread devolve into a rhetorical discussion over the potential for a cheater to continue cheating, that isn't the topic nor is it our place to do CCP's job in handling that particular problem, no matter your opinion of them or the job being done.

Now as for capacity, miners need more in some shape, form, or fashion. There really are no two ways of looking at it, it's simply a matter of fact that any decent mining ship can typically barely hold one cycle, or two in some cases, of their lasers. Worse still, there are indeed situations where the ship simply can not contain what it can mine for even one cycle.

This forces players to do one of two things run back to base, which is simply a mortal blow for any sort of efficiency or expectation of profitability. The other alternative is the infamous "jettison can", as the Giant Secure Container is hardly "giant" being easily filled in a single cycle from any decent covetor miner (which is the current standard by which mining is measured, at least until hulk invention catches up to demand).

The jettison can is the focal point of numerous uses and their related problems that CCP never intended to be possible to begin with. Oveur has said in no uncertain terms that mining to a jettison can is exploiting an oversight in the game's mechanics CCP never intended to be possible.

So an alternative to solve both the exploit and the necessity to use it must be found, without supplanting logistics or being unreasonable.

My personal favorite:

Mining Cargo Hold: Similar to the drone bay, acting as storage for only a very specific item (in this case ore/ice), and can ONLY ever be fed into while in space. Only present on Mining Barges, and Exhumers. Based upon their class size, the Procurer and Skiff would have a Mining Cargo Hold of 10,000m3; Retriever and Mackinaw would have 15,000m3; Covetor and Hulk would have 20,000m3.

This is nowhere near "overpowered", it would still require hauling logistics for any one intending to mine for more than just a few cycles, so it's literally letting a miner mine for a FEW cycles rather than one or less currently. If anything, this would be a long over-due apology from CCP for the virtually crippled state many miners have to dance around to just do what their ship is supposedly designed to do specifically.

Other suggestions are numerous however, another of my own suggestions is "Compression".

Vivus Mors
Posted - 2007.03.21 18:11:00 - [3]
 

While it may seem quaint, it's actually a very elegant solution to the problem, however, it would require some means of making the volume of the ore "inflate" to default value when outside of the very specific environment of a cargo hold owned by someone with a given amount of skill with compression to reduce that volume.

Basically, all compression does is take the volume (m3) value of any ore/ice placed in the cargo hold and reduce it by the skill's defined amount. Thus you can basically pack more into the same space. Mining lasers would mine the identical amount as they always have, jettison cans would still hold exactly as much as they always have, and haulers too, however once ore is dropped from a laser and into your hold, there (and only there) its volume is reduced so that it more easily fits.

My least favorite solution is CCP actually releasing the remaining secure containers that are already tucked away in the database. It's not that I don't want larger secure containers, far from it, it's that even those aren't big enough to solve the problem and won't supply the need, so thus won't be used. If a can comparable to a jettison can was to be provided however.

Mining Secure Container: May only ever be loaded with ore/ice. Volume would be an expansive 30,000m3 and of course it would be password secured. The caveat? You can only have 1 anchored anywhere at any one time, more over, you can only use it when jettisoned and anchored (can't be used like a GSC is now to gain extra cargo space in haulers). The volume of it could be perhaps 15,000m3 to 20,000m3 (maybe as high as 25,000m3) so only a big hauler could move one around.

One can with one use, decent capacity, wouldn't be ideal for mining operations still since you would of course need multiple of them, and unless everyone brings one of their own it may well not cope, but it's something that's better than the current situation.

I'm going to leave it off here for the time being, but I highly suggest reading my linked document that not only goes into much more detail on numerous suggestions of my own as well as those of others, but also talks about skills, modules, rigs, ship suggestions, and so on.

Miranda Ceres
Posted - 2007.03.21 18:20:00 - [4]
 

And these changes are required because?

Mining is already profitable enough.

Your idea for mining ships to have huge mining cargo holds is ridiculous. It's like a macroers wet dream.




Arii Smith
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2007.03.21 18:28:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Arii Smith on 21/03/2007 18:25:29
Edited by: Arii Smith on 21/03/2007 18:25:03
Great post, all wonderful ideas.

I am in full support of this. Currently I run missions and rat while I train the skills for PVP (6 month old character, signed up right before damn free million SP giveaway to noobs). The only reason I PVE is because the industry skills are only useful for industry specific tasks, and mining/production is not nearly as exciting (and almost as hard) as just running carebear missions to get PVP skills.

edit t Meranda: Have you ever mined? It is so painfully boring and so NOT profitable unless you have a corp or a half dozen buddies.

Cloora
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
Posted - 2007.03.21 18:28:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Miranda Ceres
And these changes are required because?

Mining is already profitable enough.

Your idea for mining ships to have huge mining cargo holds is ridiculous. It's like a macroers wet dream.






You tell me why I have to have a friend haul for me or buy an alt hauler account when the mission runner can make as much money (or more) then me solo?

Macroers are going to operate anyway. CCP needs to NOT punish paying real customers for people that cheat. They need to catch macroers using macros and ban them. Why do I have to suffer with a sub-par, neglected career that is necessary for SOMEONE to do besides Macroers?

I totally agree with the OP and support thier cause to get Devs to recognize the problem at hand with mining.

Fswd
Gallente
Psychotic Sea Monkeys
Posted - 2007.03.21 18:33:00 - [7]
 

Signed, +10000 Very Happy

Amphetaminer
Grumpy Old Men
Posted - 2007.03.21 18:37:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Amphetaminer on 21/03/2007 18:35:56
Originally by: Miranda Ceres
And these changes are required because?

Mining is already profitable enough.

Your idea for mining ships to have huge mining cargo holds is ridiculous. It's like a macroers wet dream.






These are required because mining at the moment is very tedious, there are alot of anoying parts to it that could be fixed. Ore thieving thats basicly unstoppable... You mining for 3mins on an ore that only had like 2units left.. A retriever being worse in mining then a BC while it takes lots more time to train for one! (not even talking about BS here!).. Having paperthin armor while also being slow and no offensive powers..
i can go on and on.

Now for your second point "Mining is already profitable enough" says who? A solo mission runner makes more then a miner. While i also depend on others (hauler) + i dont even have a chance to get a rare item like mission runners do wich makes them multi millions.

Only mining in 0.0 can be pretty profitable if you find a good ore belt wich is safe + not being mined by others and you dont have to pay rent etc etc. (most people who mine in 0.0 give all there ore to the corp) so again not a viable option for making the "big bucks"

Now about the cargoholds. What i think is rediculous is that in 3mins my cargohold is full of ore and 1 of my lasers shuts down because i mined more then can fit in my cargo hold. Who designs a ship that cant even hold what his t1! strip miners mine in 1 cycle?!

edit:
oh and about the macro'rs so because there are macro miners all of us real miners should be punished? I hear there are also mission running macro'rs following the same logic: lets nerf the rewards for the missions aswell and the favorite mission running ships


Vivus Mors
Posted - 2007.03.21 19:15:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Vivus Mors on 21/03/2007 19:20:45
Originally by: Miranda Ceres
And these changes are required because?

Mining is already profitable enough.

Your idea for mining ships to have huge mining cargo holds is ridiculous. It's like a macroers wet dream.


Originally by: Vivus Mors
but please, if you are not an industrialist, or have no intent to be constructive, I ask that you simply not post.


Originally by: Vivus Mors
At this point, as per my previous request, I want to request again that anyone who isn't intending to lend any constructive comments simply not post. I am certain someone is going to say something about macro-miners, and I simply don't want to have this thread devolve into a rhetorical discussion over the potential for a cheater to continue cheating, that isn't the topic nor is it our place to do CCP's job in handling that particular problem, no matter your opinion of them or the job being done.


I won't let you distract from the purpose of the thread and waste time diverting from the actual reason for changes and improvements. I specifically asked you not to post about macro nonsense because it is specifically beyond our control and regardless of the situation it is up to CCP to take action in that regard. If only you had read the preface to both the thread and that specific passage you take exception to.

Again, please, if it isnít constructive itís nothing but trolling. No one here is out to slight anyone else, so please donít come and post to slight the rest of us. Any complaints about macro miners as per usual have no place here because WE canít do anything about them, and rhetoric to prevent any sort of changes and improvements to the game based upon fear that a cheater will cheat is counterproductive and just silly. We should not live in fear that a cheater will cheat and handicap ourselves because of that potential.

So for a third time:

PLEASE DO NOT POST ABOUT MACRO MINERS HERE

That is the sole responsibility and authority of the developers and game-masters, and if you have issue with that, they are the ones to talk to. Please donít post here in opposition to real people because you are upset about those who arenít real and abusing the system.

T'Laar Bok
Posted - 2007.03.21 19:16:00 - [10]
 

/signed

But I think you're wasting your time and changes are required now, not in 6-12 months time (if ever).

Macroers wet dream? Does anyone actually think that's a legitimate reason for not introducing anything in game for paying customers?

Kruugore
Minmatar
Vigilant Justice
Posted - 2007.03.21 19:16:00 - [11]
 

/signed

I'd like a built in asteroid timer too :)

Miranda Ceres
Posted - 2007.03.21 19:18:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Miranda Ceres on 21/03/2007 19:16:21
Some points to the above...

Nobody is forcing you to mine, but people choose to do so anyway...

I didn't think mining was supposed to be fun? Mining/ratting/mission running/other industry/trading... is a means to an end - you do it to support your PVP habit.

Want to avoid ore thieves? Use a secure can.

Mining in 0.0 yields about 50m+ an hour... if you want reward, you have to be prepared to take the risk.

One problem I can see with giving the mining ships huge mining cargo bays is that it effectively removes a ship class from the game. The tech I hauler is already marginalised enough with freighters and carriers moving things around... plus it means you can just park up in a belt, turn your lasers on and not have to do anything else for 30 minutes to make yourself 25m ISK. You're basically advocating making mining lots of ore, very easy. Now in the short term this might be good for you - but the supply of the minerals will increase, and mineral prices will fall. You'll be doing the same amount of work for the same ISK. ;)

I like your user interface ideas, but changing the ships themselves is a bad idea.

Zephyrys
Caldari
Posted - 2007.03.21 19:19:00 - [13]
 

/signed

Pity CCP will ignore this as they do with all the other none pewpew threads.



Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
Posted - 2007.03.21 19:20:00 - [14]
 

Why can't the damned asteroid scanner show the distance to the roids!!! Make a T2 scanner that does it, I don't care, just put it in for goodness sake.

Vivus Mors
Posted - 2007.03.21 19:22:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Miranda Ceres
Some points to the above...

Nobody is forcing you to mine, but people choose to do so anyway...

I didn't think mining was supposed to be fun? Mining/ratting/mission running/other industry/trading... is a means to an end - you do it to support your PVP habit.

Want to avoid ore thieves? Use a secure can.

Mining in 0.0 yields about 50m+ an hour... if you want reward, you have to be prepared to take the risk.

One problem I can see with giving the mining ships huge mining cargo bays is that it effectively removes a ship class from the game. The tech I hauler is already marginalised enough with freighters and carriers moving things around...

I like your user interface ideas, but changing the ships themselves is a bad idea.


Please, for those that are gravitating to one single passage about a mining cargo hold.

That is simply ONE SUGGESTION amidst three separate, and viable, solutions that were offered up.

I ask that you thoughtfully read the entirety of the segment at least to get not only the suggestions, but their context as well, preferably prior to posting in staunch opposition to any/all of it.

T'Laar Bok
Posted - 2007.03.21 19:26:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Miranda Ceres

Want to avoid ore thieves? Use a secure can.



Full in about ĺ of 1 cycle.

Originally by: Miranda Ceres

Mining in 0.0 yields about 50m+ an hour... if you want reward, you have to be prepared to take the risk.



Risking well over 1bil of goodies in a paper thin ship != reward, not even close, not even the same galaxy as close.


Fswd
Gallente
Psychotic Sea Monkeys
Posted - 2007.03.21 19:32:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Miranda Ceres
Edited by: Miranda Ceres on 21/03/2007 19:16:21
Some points to the above...

Nobody is forcing you to mine, but people choose to do so anyway...

I didn't think mining was supposed to be fun? Mining/ratting/mission running/other industry/trading... is a means to an end - you do it to support your PVP habit.

Want to avoid ore thieves? Use a secure can.

Mining in 0.0 yields about 50m+ an hour... if you want reward, you have to be prepared to take the risk.

One problem I can see with giving the mining ships huge mining cargo bays is that it effectively removes a ship class from the game. The tech I hauler is already marginalised enough with freighters and carriers moving things around... plus it means you can just park up in a belt, turn your lasers on and not have to do anything else for 30 minutes to make yourself 25m ISK. You're basically advocating making mining lots of ore, very easy. Now in the short term this might be good for you - but the supply of the minerals will increase, and mineral prices will fall. You'll be doing the same amount of work for the same ISK. ;)

I like your user interface ideas, but changing the ships themselves is a bad idea.


So with other words, you never got further than your race's mining frigate Sad

Jayson Lee
Minmatar
Universal Exports
Posted - 2007.03.21 19:52:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Miranda Ceres
Edited by: Miranda Ceres on 21/03/2007 19:16:21
Some points to the above...

Nobody is forcing you to mine, but people choose to do so anyway...

I didn't think mining was supposed to be fun? Mining/ratting/mission running/other industry/trading... is a means to an end - you do it to support your PVP habit.

Want to avoid ore thieves? Use a secure can.

Mining in 0.0 yields about 50m+ an hour... if you want reward, you have to be prepared to take the risk.

One problem I can see with giving the mining ships huge mining cargo bays is that it effectively removes a ship class from the game. The tech I hauler is already marginalised enough with freighters and carriers moving things around... plus it means you can just park up in a belt, turn your lasers on and not have to do anything else for 30 minutes to make yourself 25m ISK. You're basically advocating making mining lots of ore, very easy. Now in the short term this might be good for you - but the supply of the minerals will increase, and mineral prices will fall. You'll be doing the same amount of work for the same ISK. ;)

I like your user interface ideas, but changing the ships themselves is a bad idea.


Is stealing ore in 0.0 that big of a deal? I would think if a hostile was in the system the destruction of your ships is primary with your jetison can still sitting there. I dont think that applies.

As for 50mil in 0.0, really? I think most of these suggestions are for people in empire as they are the ones who have to deal with ore theft.

Oh and another thing, mining is not done only in barges, i see plenty of bs mining so you would still need that barge to haul stuff around.

Another thing how can you do nothing and earn 25mil? What system and how is your setup? I think you could be making things up to help support your already flawed arguement, but I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, so proof please.

Auron Shadowbane
Pelennor Swarm
G00DFELLAS
Posted - 2007.03.21 19:57:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Miranda Ceres


I didn't think mining was supposed to be fun? Mining/ratting/mission running/other industry/trading... is a means to an end - you do it to support your PVP habit.




says who? your exremental unload-hole?

you are basically describing WoW where you kill some mobs to pay for armor-repairs after PvP.

EVE is a free Universe and all was meant to be fun in its own way. Or shall i say "PvP is a mean to an end... - they do it so you can sell them more of your products!"?

Originally by: Miranda Ceres

Mining in 0.0 yields about 50m+ an hour... if you want reward, you have to be prepared to take the risk.



ratting can yield you the same amounth if you factor in commander/officer spawns.

Originally by: Miranda Ceres

One problem I can see with giving the mining ships huge mining cargo bays is that it effectively removes a ship class from the game. The tech I hauler is already marginalised enough with freighters and carriers moving things around...


freighters kill t1 haulers as well as carriers/dreads kill BS and t2 haulers kill t1 haulers as well as HACs kill Cruisers. T1 is for the unskilled and the people who can't/don't want to afford t2.

show me an usage in end-game pvp for t1 frigs if money is no issue, that a ceptor/af can't do better...




Originally by: Vivus Mors

Please, for those that are gravitating to one single passage about a mining cargo hold.

That is simply ONE SUGGESTION amidst three separate, and viable, solutions that were offered up.

I ask that you thoughtfully read the entirety of the segment at least to get not only the suggestions, but their context as well, preferably prior to posting in staunch opposition to any/all of it.


don't waste your breathe with uninformed trolls!



basically I like the ideas but the one about the ore scanner. Rather than only scanning the locked roids it should add a "- 120 units" tag after each asteroids name. makes longer range scanners usefull too!

about the ore cargo thing I'd like to add the following:
combine the two ideas and basically allow a exhumer 5 pilot to store 10-20 cycles of ore in their ore hold. Add the rule that those ore hold can only be accessed in space by other corp members (like a corp hangar with privilegues) and in station by yourself.

this would allow haulers to take directly from the barges ore hold and make them a way to increase your overal yield but not a requirement to be profitable.



side note: everyone who thinks you can then go afk for 1hour and mine yourself a small fortune should just try out staying in 0.0 afk for 1 hour at a belt. it will prolly get you killed and shurely means you loose 50mins of mining as the most roids are relatively small.

and empire macro miners won't benefit from these because they have macros that can do all the work (hauling, targeting, changing roid, even changing belt!).

Zephyrys
Caldari
Posted - 2007.03.21 19:58:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Zephyrys on 21/03/2007 19:57:46
Originally by: Miranda Ceres


Nobody is forcing you to mine, but people choose to do so anyway...


Such a thoughtless comment it hardly deserves this much comment

Originally by: Miranda Ceres

I didn't think mining was supposed to be fun? Mining/ratting/mission running/other industry/trading... is a means to an end - you do it to support your PVP habit.

You didn't think.. thats part of the problem.
A means to an end? You automaticly assume that PVP is everyones end dont you? I guess it never occured to you that PVP isn't everything and some ppl, don't actually like PVP *gasp* I'll give you a few hours to wrap that miniscule grey matter around that fact.

YOU may do whatever it is you do to support YOUR PVP habit but EVE dosent revolve around you and your habit alone.



Originally by: Miranda Ceres

Mining in 0.0 yields about 50m+ an hour... if you want reward, you have to be prepared to take the risk.

Please state how you came to that number. BTW mining in 0.0 is no different then mining in lowsec or in empire while under wardec. The only difference is bubbles.
It would appear that miners have the same risks no matter where they go.

Originally by: Miranda Ceres

One problem I can see with giving the mining ships huge mining cargo bays is that it effectively removes a ship class from the game. The tech I hauler is already marginalised enough with freighters and carriers moving things around... plus it means you can just park up in a belt, turn your lasers on and not have to do anything else for 30 minutes to make yourself 25m ISK. You're basically advocating making mining lots of ore, very easy. Now in the short term this might be good for you - but the supply of the minerals will increase, and mineral prices will fall. You'll be doing the same amount of work for the same ISK. ;)


Please tell me you aren't this nieve. Eh you would lie anyways. So tell us.. how would you like it if you had to return to station or haul your loot back after every NPC kill thats larger then a cruiser. After all you are a warship.. not a transport or a freighter.. you shouldn't have the cargo capacity to carry more then 1 decent sized BC's worth of loot.

So please.. if you can.. tell us how you would feel if your warships cargo capacity ment you could loot 3-4 frigate wrecks and maybe a cruiser before you had to go empty your cargo hold. You wouldn't like it at all.
Your cargohold makes your life SOOO easy cause you can kill and loot an entire mission in 1 sitting. But us miners asking to be able to mine for more then 2 cycles befroe having to haul back tot he station is just TOTALLY overpowered and inbalanced eh?

Miranda Ceres
Posted - 2007.03.21 20:03:00 - [21]
 

Seems like I've riled up a bunch of miners who have never tried much else in their eve careers, and who have rarely if ever ventured out of empire high-sec.

I've yet to see a reason put forward why mining needs 'balancing'.

Jayson Lee
Minmatar
Universal Exports
Posted - 2007.03.21 20:07:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Miranda Ceres
Seems like I've riled up a bunch of miners who have never tried much else in their eve careers, and who have rarely if ever ventured out of empire high-sec.

I've yet to see a reason put forward why mining needs 'balancing'.


I am afraid you are wrong again.

I've yet to see a reason for not putting foward the suggestions made.

Zephyrys
Caldari
Posted - 2007.03.21 20:10:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Miranda Ceres
Seems like I've riled up a bunch of miners who have never tried much else in their eve careers, and who have rarely if ever ventured out of empire high-sec.

I've yet to see a reason put forward why mining needs 'balancing'.


Actually if you did some research all miners in the new regions have to have combat alts to make decent money cause of the crappy roids.

I'm willing to bet that not a single miner in this thread lives in high-sec

And you and the rest of the pewpew crowd have yet to prove why any of these ideas would be overpowered or imbalanced w/o resorting to macrominers and calling it an easy button.

Mission runners have the easy "I win" button.. not miners..

Please take your nievety to a pewpew thread where I am sure you lack of experience with all things mining will be welcome.




Deez Nuttzy
Caldari
Posted - 2007.03.21 20:14:00 - [24]
 

i just want a capital mining/refining ship. it flies along sees a roid belt. ship changes course and opens its big mouth. Consumes 1 roid and then poops out minerals into a freighter container waiting for a freighter to come along and scoop it up. i know the amarr titan looks like it could swallow one.

Miranda Ceres
Posted - 2007.03.21 20:14:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Zephyrys


YOU may do whatever it is you do to support YOUR PVP habit but EVE dosent revolve around you and your habit alone.



Eve *is* PVP. Mining at the moment is the one area of the game that involved the least amount of interaction or co-operation with other players, apart from low level mission running. Even trading and production involves PVP - with regards to competition etc.

Mining operations should be about co-operation - with miners, haulers, protectors working together... this is why we have corps and alliances. Everything is so much more efficient when working together - but what is being suggested is to make things much much easier for the solo player which isn't really the primary aim of a MMORPG.

What is coming across (with the suggestions being put forward, and the amount of agreement), is that you guys would like a single player, offline mining simulator.

Quote:

Please state how you came to that number. BTW mining in 0.0 is no different then mining in lowsec or in empire while under wardec.


Read Halada's mining guide. ;)

Quote:

Please tell me you aren't this nieve. Eh you would lie anyways. So tell us.. how would you like it if you had to return to station or haul your loot back after every NPC kill thats larger then a cruiser. After all you are a warship.. not a transport or a freighter.. you shouldn't have the cargo capacity to carry more then 1 decent sized BC's worth of loot.


Try ratting in the drone regions.

-

Stakhanov
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2007.03.21 20:16:00 - [26]
 

I agree with any suggestion that makes mining less tedious , as long as it doesn't impair the ore thief profession. For instance , it would be good if mining barges could automatically store mined ore in cans , without requiring the pilot to drag-drop constantly. You could afk mine in 0.6 with good drones and tank , with the risk that thieves steal all your ore. But you wouldn't be required to pay attention at all times if others watch your back.

Miranda Ceres
Posted - 2007.03.21 20:20:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Zephyrys

Please take your nievety to a pewpew thread where I am sure you lack of experience with all things mining will be welcome.



You don't seem to have taken the criticism too well... next time don't post a thread in general discussion if you don't want a range of viewpoints. ;)

Zephyrys
Caldari
Posted - 2007.03.21 20:32:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Miranda Ceres
Originally by: Zephyrys


YOU may do whatever it is you do to support YOUR PVP habit but EVE dosent revolve around you and your habit alone.



Eve *is* PVP. Mining at the moment is the one area of the game that involved the least amount of interaction or co-operation with other players, apart from low level mission running. Even trading and production involves PVP - with regards to competition etc.


Totally incorrect.. Mission runners are the only real solo chars.. 1 person can do a lvl 4 mission alone. Miners need multiple ppl to come anywhere close to what a runner can make.

Originally by: Miranda Ceres

Mining operations should be about co-operation - with miners, haulers, protectors working together... this is why we have corps and alliances. Everything is so much more efficient when working together - but what is being suggested is to make things much much easier for the solo player which isn't really the primary aim of a MMORPG.


Anything is better in groups.. but amazing how its only the miners that are forced to do it in groups. Lets see I got 1 hour to play.. but I'm only a miner and noone is avalible to guard or haul for me.. well I'm SOL for doing anything.. may as well log off.

Again i direct you to mission runners that do lvl 4's solo

Originally by: Miranda Ceres

What is coming across (with the suggestions being put forward, and the amount of agreement), is that you guys would like a single player, offline mining simulator.

Stunningly incorrect again.. a larger can dosen't make for an offline mining sim.. it makes so we dont have to go back to station and swap ships every 6 minutes cause all holds and cans are full.

You have yet to answer how you would respond to a cargo hold that only carrys 3-4 ships <BC worth of loot.. selective reading I guess

Quote:

Please tell me you aren't this nieve. Eh you would lie anyways. So tell us.. how would you like it if you had to return to station or haul your loot back after every NPC kill thats larger then a cruiser. After all you are a warship.. not a transport or a freighter.. you shouldn't have the cargo capacity to carry more then 1 decent sized BC's worth of loot.

Originally by: Miranda Ceres

Try ratting in the drone regions.


I live in the drone regions.. try another arguemnt.. I know exactly what I'm talking about.. you dont see to though.

So.. tell us what region you live in?
I;'ve admitted I live in 0.0 Drone regions.. what about you?

-


Zephyrys
Caldari
Posted - 2007.03.21 20:34:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Miranda Ceres
Originally by: Zephyrys

Please take your nievety to a pewpew thread where I am sure you lack of experience with all things mining will be welcome.



You don't seem to have taken the criticism too well... next time don't post a thread in general discussion if you don't want a range of viewpoints. ;)


LOL thats funny... Please point out your criticism... all I saw was whining about miners wanting a much needed improvement.

Soporo
Caldari
Posted - 2007.03.21 20:51:00 - [30]
 

/Signed.

As a miner in 0.0, and before that, Empire, I KNOW what you are talking about.

For me the big gripes are:

People mine in BS for a reason, because a Retriever can be instapopped by Rats in 0.0, even aligned, I know, it happened to me.
In short, the 2 low end Barges SUCK, are super SLOW, have NO TANK, a MINISCULE CARGO and can be instapopped by practically anything.
The Hulk is the ONLY real viable 0.0 dedicated mining platform, and yet it is hugely expensive, so not preferable for LowSec.(what is??)
Thank God CCP graced us with the ability to finally Invent it.

A Rokh mining setup can easily excede the small barge in effectiveness and possibly match a Retriever depending on skills, its also MUCH easier to get into, skillwise.

Mining for new people is frustrating, aggravating and dangerous, and unless you have another account or hauler buddy, you will get robbed blind, not to mention get popped over and over till you learn the tricks.

Mining is the ONE career where an alt or hauler buddy is practically MANDATORY for maximum effectiveness. None others are. Mining is the least solo friendly carreer in the game.

ORE Capital...meh, great...whatever... I have hopes, but with the past CCP ideology concerning anything to do with mining, I aint holding my breath.
If it runs true to ORE form, it will be hugely expensive, slow, ungainly, and with a miniscule cargo hold, few if any mids and lows.

A reliable, effective, proper ASTEROID SCANNER is needed, please.

Please CCP, examine this carreer, and make some adjustments, you will have no end of support from the mining community upon request.



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