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blankseplocked Petition: Bring back no local
 
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whahein
Minmatar
Amistad Annihilate
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
Posted - 2007.03.21 11:11:00 - [151]
 

Originally by: Sever Aldaria
/Signed

Its more dangerous for ratters ect. but its also more dangerous for gangs as you can run into a fleet twice your size w/out much warning. Actually gives a meaning to having good recon intel and makes pvp more exciting and real.



Thats sort of nonsense since we still have intel tools, namely the map and the build in scanner, both pirates and carebears need tools to find eachother, so noone is going to like having to live without any intel tools.

a competent pirate or miner will have warnings.

And then theres the social part, the only way for rivals to bond is via local, and well would you write in it if it would reveal your presence, of cause not

And to the blob thing, today you can mine and rat without the protection of scouts and camps, because you get some warning when hostile enters, if it becomes to difficault to keep a profit comming from your ratting/mining it will die out or blobs will form to protect systems from raiders. Again making it harder for the smaller corp to survive.

Replacing local with constalation would actually give better warning to carebears.

The problem seams to be that local does what every replacement tool would do, and add a social element to the game.

bigfatbird
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.21 11:32:00 - [152]
 

Edited by: bigfatbird on 21/03/2007 11:29:40
Originally by: El Covah
Originally by: bigfatbird

And the new players will not just be weak but also half blind.

I am sure they will be glad for that "expirience". Rolling Eyes

/absolutely NOT signed




EVE is a hardcore game, making it more hardcore for new players is not good for the whole playerbase. So completely removing it? No. But what about this idea...

You only see local if:

a) In Empire
b) If you or NPCs have sov in the system





That sounds already alot better to me.

Tbh I wont stop playing Eve anyway, I am just to addicted to this game.

But I still tend more for being in favour of letting local untouched atm.

I really dont see how local breaks the game for anyone.

Covops and recons give u a nice advantage even with working local.

Skeenee Al'Ramed
Amarr
Exploration and Exploitation
Posted - 2007.03.21 11:37:00 - [153]
 

Yeah plz bring it back!!!

/signed /signed /and signed again!!!!!

Nagarutu Mishima
chillin inc.
Posted - 2007.03.21 11:40:00 - [154]
 

This would just make the game slower and take more time, not really a good idea. Cause if wee need to spend hours of just finding targets guessing if its ppl in local or not would just be silly.

The pvp in EVE is not quick and fast, and it shoulnt, but its no reason to slow it down further.

Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
Posted - 2007.03.21 11:41:00 - [155]
 

I will agree with no local as long as a new skill and ability is added.

I want ship scanners that dont have to be activated, and can tell when sombody jumps into system, or at least comes withen 5000k of my peaceful minning op.

I could care less if there was a name or not. I just want to see a ship is near.

The higher trained skill the better the scanner reads.

As for local, you all aint been around too long have you? Guess what people have been wanting local removed for four + years and it aint happen yet.

This is the 1,597 pettition to call for the removal of local...guess they dont want to do it.




Kastar
Paragon Horizons
THORN Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.21 11:47:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Yes plz, make u appear in local in low sec and 0.0 only if u make noise.


Haha, I play without sound Twisted EvilYARRRR!!Idea

Nargo Nextit
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2007.03.21 11:52:00 - [157]
 

signed on behalf 2 accounts

bigfatbird
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.21 11:52:00 - [158]
 

Edited by: bigfatbird on 21/03/2007 12:37:21
Originally by: Roshan longshot
I will agree with no local as long as a new skill and ability is added.

I want ship scanners that dont have to be activated, and can tell when sombody jumps into system, or at least comes withen 5000k of my peaceful minning op.

I could care less if there was a name or not. I just want to see a ship is near.

The higher trained skill the better the scanner reads.

As for local, you all aint been around too long have you? Guess what people have been wanting local removed for four + years and it aint happen yet.

This is the 1,597 pettition to call for the removal of local...guess they dont want to do it.



What about the newer players who are already weak compared to trained players?

With a skillbased solution they would now also be half blind and demoted to be nothing else but target practice.


The Champion
Posted - 2007.03.21 12:09:00 - [159]
 

simply replace local channel with constellation channel u see everyone in constellation as u see now in local channel, even extend it to delayed mode like 5 minutes or so.




Kharriga
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.03.21 12:19:00 - [160]
 

this would make PVP so much more interesting


SIGN! - for whats it worth..

Sanada Juyushi
Posted - 2007.03.21 12:38:00 - [161]
 

Absolutly not signed also

Removing Local completely favours the attacker of pve'ers.

For players that don't have

Newer players and corps are forced to pve in 0.0/low-sec endlessly, because lets face it until you have a starter fund it is very hard to achieve anything. Even that first BS can take a long while for a new player to earn the isk to make.

With no local small corps and players without the bhack up of huge intell channels and the like have absolutly no way of predictign when hostiles will enter bar spamming the scanner non stop for hours and hours and hours.

I know the responses to this will be things like, they should join alliances, get on intell channels, have scouts on the gate.

Join alliances - this completely destroys the current game play where small corps set up in 0.0/low-sec grows and then become alliances through talking and suppporting eachother in local.

Intell channels without local there wont be the co-ordination for that.

Use scouts etc. Hell large alliances have problems with this, people simply dont want to spend an entire evening sitting on a gate non stop, It also completely nerfs the earning ratio as you are left with another mouth to feed.

The way I look upon this is all it will do is encourage more usage of macro's for ratting that spam scanner and warps out automatically to a ss when a new ship appears.

If nothing else there has to be an identifier that lets you know when someone has jumped into the system
, even with that i see local removal personally as a great way to encourage and make fights easier for people already in 0.0 like myself ( I myself have at times thought it would be great to slip by my enemies scouts when in a large gank gang approaching enemy position), and yet a even better way to ensure that status quo remains and no new corp/player ever dares make those first faltering steps into low sec 0.0 on their own. It would also greatly encourage the use of macro alts that will just sit and scan a gate non stop.

Regards Sanada

Hooch Flux
Caldari
Posted - 2007.03.21 14:39:00 - [162]
 

How about this, High-sec remains as is. Low-sec is still their, but you have an opt out when you jump in (pop-up asking if you want to join local for that system). 0.0, no local unless bought by whatever allaince/faction controls system.
Add Passive/active function to scanner!
Un-nerf WCS (fair is fair)
Allow scanner to scan for cloaked ships (depending on effectiveness of scanner and skill vs effectiveness of cloak and skill, also take into account movement. Yadda-yadda-yadda.

Seems fair.

Drasked
North Face Force
Posted - 2007.03.21 14:58:00 - [163]
 

If Velsharoon said so, /signed

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.21 15:08:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: bigfatbird
Edited by: bigfatbird on 21/03/2007 12:37:21
Originally by: Roshan longshot
I will agree with no local as long as a new skill and ability is added.

I want ship scanners that dont have to be activated, and can tell when sombody jumps into system, or at least comes withen 5000k of my peaceful minning op.

I could care less if there was a name or not. I just want to see a ship is near.

The higher trained skill the better the scanner reads.

As for local, you all aint been around too long have you? Guess what people have been wanting local removed for four + years and it aint happen yet.

This is the 1,597 pettition to call for the removal of local...guess they dont want to do it.



What about the newer players who are already weak compared to trained players?

With a skillbased solution they would now also be half blind and demoted to be nothing else but target practice.




When I was a newer player local was just weird to me. Why would you have such a thing? I responded to players I saw on screen, not on some list of nameless faces in a chat screen. When I was running missions local in Empire I could care less about local. The chat was ok, but the member list I had really no use for.

Only later in the game more experienced players pointed out local's use as an intelligence gathering tool. Seemed clear meta-gaming to me, but hey, I was weirded out by insta-bookmarks too.

In any case, most new players would not miss the member list if it was removed is my guess.

More experienced players

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.03.21 15:25:00 - [165]
 

No, for all the reasons already discussed to death in earlier incarnations of this thread. --;

hitech redneck
Digital Mind Crimes
Posted - 2007.03.21 15:35:00 - [166]
 

No thanks we need people in local to show up. No local makes it a griefers paridise. Take local away in 0.0 is another way to drive people back to empire.

Seph Res
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.03.21 15:38:00 - [167]
 

it was great fun to enter the mystery this way, gaves me the feeling of real space sectors flyin around only with the help of the scanner and pulsating heart on the gate to to wait how many foes will come through at 1 time ^^

signed to remove local

MaDeX
The Scope
Posted - 2007.03.21 16:45:00 - [168]
 

SSIIIIGGNNNNEEEDD


IBTL?

Soporo
Caldari
Posted - 2007.03.21 16:52:00 - [169]
 

No.
Only morons with a lack of vision or any thought about the consequenses of such a thing would ask for it.
Billion reasons throughout thread.
No.

Sgt Napalm
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.03.21 16:54:00 - [170]
 

no

Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar
Matari Holo News Network
Posted - 2007.03.21 16:55:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: X3vious
Edited by: X3vious on 20/03/2007 20:58:07
Bring back local.

As the pirates argue - risk vs reward:

There is little risk when local is removed.





I agree.

Local should stay.

Removing local will do more harm to the game than anyone realizes that calls for it.

No local means:

1. More time looking for a fight if you want one.
2. Means even fewer people will leave high Empire...more lag.
3. Means less social interaction among players.

iqplayer
Caldari
Dragon's Rage
Posted - 2007.03.21 17:04:00 - [172]
 

Edited by: iqplayer on 21/03/2007 17:02:38
Originally by: Velsharoon

That was fun, no kills but it felt like how it should be, would force people in 0.0 to actually play the game on hard mode, use their brains and even not blob \o/




I would love to hear your reasoning on this.... because quite frankly, I think you're wrong.

Removing local would certainly cause a division of playstyles - on the one hand you would certainly have the solo ganker, and probably the solo miner/npc'er in out of the way systems; but you would greatly encourage the formation of uber blobs.

Why?

Well, for one, small groups would struggle to get the intel that no local would require. 5-6 guys mining would suffer a big hit if 1-2 of those guys had to be scouts on a gate. Small roving gangs might not suffer this penalty to quite the same extent, but you'd still likely want more scouts without local than you would with local (or risk being hit by a bigger gang).

Basically, big (attacking) blobs would get all the advantages of no local, with the added benefit of having the manpower to field necessary scouts. Defending (or mining/npc'ing) groups would be pushed to ever larger blobs to try to safeguard against any possible threat. Any uncertainty about whether a force was large enough, would be compensated for the same way it is today - by increasing the size of the blob until it clearly outnumbered it's opposition.

Kazuma Saruwatari
Posted - 2007.03.21 18:05:00 - [173]
 

Edited by: Kazuma Saruwatari on 21/03/2007 18:02:13
Local stays.

People have said why it should stay.

Personally I'm all for removing local, its too game-immersion-breaking, and replacing local has potential to add more gameplay into EVE, like say:
-tracing someone's warp signature to hunt them down

-a "localized" local wherein anyone within 5AU will show up in your local (giving the PvE/Miner due warning ahead of time, even if he is coming in warp real fast, can be skillbased too!), if else, at least a nice "Caution: Ship warping in" notification would be nice at least, giving time to whoever is going to run, to at least get their legs going.

-cov-ops possibly getting a system-wide module that sits passively but keeps scanning, and thus produces the "old" style local for gang/fleet, at the expense of no cloak module capability

-A revamped directional scanner so that it's more user friendly and doesnt look like it doesnt do anything to the eyes of a newbie, which actually shows results on screen, and not in that little window leaving the scanner guessing where he pointed his camera again (hint hint for new graphics, add like one of those cool scanning effects that seem to pass across the screen as well, so that directional scanning isnt completely boring)

-system view that isnt lagging practically everyone who doesnt have a beefy enough videocard so that the results from directional scanning can be seen there as well

-Alliance control over their sovereigned 0.0 and a POS-bound local module, emulating the "old" style local for them, and them alone (thus, leaving the hunter with the knowledge that they know you're in there, and you dont know if there're around or not. Can even be linked into alliance or a seperate alliance chat reporting if someone with negative standing or a war target has come into their system. Would make alliance territorial defence actually look and feel like defending the territory)

So without any tools to at least provide the less hardcore players a fighting chance against those who would benefit greatly from a no-local fix, I vote no.

Local stays until CCP comes up with alternatives.

Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2007.03.21 18:28:00 - [174]
 

Most often people get caught up in the traditional "Oh, they have 10 in local so lets safespot till we have 10 more than them. Ok, lets attack. Oh they safespotted. Now they have 10 more, lets safespot ect." I think you'd get more fights by both sides in that you're unable to determine your opponents numbers in system just by looking at local. Also allows for a more tactical approach at combat. One example: have several other ships hidden elsewhere in system ready to warp in to reinforce once the opposing force has engaged thinking that they've engaged their enemy's entire force.

I believe I saw one in one of these no local threads, a person gave an example in which he and 5 other friends were in a system with 6 other hostiles in system (they could tell from local). However, 3 of his friends were afk so as far as he knew, the odds were 6:3. However, the other hostiles didn't engage either seeing the 6 (in local) they were up against and possibly even having an afk person or two of their own. The result was a mexican standoff where there was no fight.

I think removing local intel gathering would be greatly beneficial to pvp combat (1 gang vs. another, not 1 pirate vs. a ratter). On the other hand, I recognize that it would have the negative side affect of giving the miner/ratter a very hard time. Somehow, local intel gathering needs to be removed to improve pvp fights (2 sides that are looking for a fight), w/out dramatically hurting the miner/ratters. Some people suggested having non-static belts so that a pirate on the hunt would have to probe out the miner. This option has its merits in that a miner doesn't know if a pirate comes in local but that if he just does a scan once every 30-60 seconds then he should be able to see a scan probe and get to safety. (really is that so hard to do while the lasers carve at rock although it may mean that you have to spend more time playing the game than watching your favorite TV show or reading the forums while filling a can or switching target to mining a new rock?)

bigfatbird
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.21 18:36:00 - [175]
 

Hey if you want to fly "hardcore style" without local just minimize the dam window and be done with it.

CaperPuts
Minmatar
Life. Universe. Everything.
Clockwork Pineapple
Posted - 2007.03.21 18:36:00 - [176]
 

/anti-sign

You could just get a 20 man gang and warp to every single belt. Then warp to whichever guy tackles the ratters/miners there. It's a complete fog of war, and seems rather silly.

Probing will be a pain in the ass too, no idea if you should even bother looking for someone if you don't know that they exist.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2007.03.21 18:39:00 - [177]
 

Keep local, solar systems are too small not to have it. Make systems 10 times as big or cut warp speed by 90%, then maybe something else to replace a HUGE social aspect of the game. And get rid of jump gates, it's space, not dungeon rooms.

</soap box>

Renox
Gallente
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2007.03.21 18:44:00 - [178]
 

In some ways it would be nice to have local removed but imagine how utterly powerful recons would be. Able to enter a system and cloak immediately and the target being none the wiser no matter how much s/he use their scanner. Now that might be what a recon should be like but wow a lot of people will die/cry because of that.

MMoroz
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2007.03.21 19:26:00 - [179]
 

Edited by: MMoroz on 21/03/2007 19:30:09
First SIGNED.

Second:
-stop bringing stupid bug with recons noone argue here that you should be able to scan them, CCP should do that long time ago

-social thing - don`t make me laugh there is a lots of mmo beside eve and none have such a thing as local and somehow noone has problem with meeting/talking with other people

-it will make it harder for solo players - OF COURSE IT WILL, but why should it be other way if you mine alone, or travel alone through low-sec/0.0 it is your choice but you should know that it is dangerous. This the way low-sec/0.0 was designed, right now it is broken( cause of local, warp to 0.0, features to local - it displays standings etc ) and you see more and more people alone - this game is supposed to make people work together it is not WOW where you can do most of things alone

Mr Neutron
Eve Defence Force
Insurgency
Posted - 2007.03.21 19:33:00 - [180]
 

For few hours eve was close to perfection: nano battleships nerfed & local gone Very Happy

/SIGNED

PS.... TÖTALHELLDEÄTH !!!


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