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blankseplocked Ship Crews (They're Here, They're Real, get Over it)
 
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2008.08.23 14:04:00 - [211]
 

Originally by: Luminus Mallus
Yes. Never heard of a ship without a crew.
The enterprise's crew is usually expendable (nerd joke: never wear the red shirt), but it's ALWAYS there, catching shrapnel on explosions, extinguishing fires, absorbing radiation in reactor room.
They are a spectacular immersion factor.

You are surely eager to ridiculously simplify the gameplay, but after all EVE CAN PLAY AS AN RPG.
Following your logic, why not cease writing chronicles? Why bother giving plot/ storyline missions?

The game would benefit immensely from such an important feature as crews, in terms of immersion and gameplay.
And there's DOZENS of ways to discuss it (our desire), and to implement it (CCP's job).

*snip - Mitnal*

Ships DO HAVE CREWS. That's already been stated time and time again. The difference is... YOU don't get to see them. They are "flavor text", they are "behind the scenes", and they "have no impact on gameplay". This last point is where everyone starts whining.

You're all complaining "If I have a crew, then they'd better do something for me!"

Eve CAN be an RPG, but that doesn't mean that it is. There are players out there who play "in-character" all the time, and players who don't. And trying to make further "immersion" for the PvP'ers who have no interest in "immersion" at all, is probably where the resistance comes from with these ideas.


If Crew had a substancial impact on gameplay, then they'd have to be properly balanced. They'd have to work along with modules, rigs, implants, booster drugs, your skills, role bonuses, ship bonuses, leadership skills, gang boosters... did I miss any? That's 9 different ways you can make your ship perform better or differently than someone elses.


If you really want some immersion RP, then pretend everytime you activate an Armor Repper, that you have little crewmen hammering on the hull. Or that your Cap recharging is actually little hamster wheels spinning in the Gym. But don't expect CCP to add yet another point of contention to an already SERIOUSLY unbalanced gameplay. They are totally clueless when it comes to patches and nerfs... as is evident every single time they try and make additions or subtractions. They make the game vastly skewed to some degree, then spend months trying to correct the problem. And when they "correct" something, it usually renders it completely useless to the general populace.

SO... still NEED to see what those 6k crewmen are doing at all times? Or can we move on?

Luminus Mallus
Posted - 2008.08.23 15:00:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Evidently some of you are coming in last in the human race. Reading comprehension FTW.
...
SO... still NEED to see what those 6k crewmen are doing at all times? Or can we move on?


Your brain is obviously fossilized.

Let me quote you once more on this phrase of yours:
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 13/08/2008 12:15:35
"Would add nothing" means it would cost more to implement than it would return.


You're still beating past week's same rotten horse carcass.
At this point, it's even more evident that your will to object this legit, proper game addition is pure fear of novelty, or out of sheer stupidity.

As I wrote already, your kind of reply is the spastic consequence of the game becoming a job for the PLAYERS, especially for those that played a fair while.
But it's CCP's job to decide HOW to put something we want, into the game.

Crews are a great addition to the game.
They are worth the effort.
Given that you are not a developer, your considerations about HOW to balance and implement are, in fact, ridiculous, exactly as your considerations about the team's competence.


Crews can be implemented, and they could become a market branch/ commodity, as we already have dozens.
It is logical to conclude that if it were for you, we should not give a flying **** about ANY kind of deepness to the story, to mission plots, the SCIENCE FICTION.

It is your right to participate in this discussion, but your whole perspective and approach on the issue are, simply put, completely wrong.

JiWan Ti
Gallente
Buzoku Kira
Posted - 2008.09.04 13:39:00 - [213]
 

Edited by: JiWan Ti on 04/09/2008 13:39:47
i would love to have a crew! It would explain how i can operate a single ship that has millions of rooms that i obviously can not operate all at once as a single person...

it would be great to add crewmembers that give your ship special bonuses, and then be able to make a portrait for each crew member even and give them names and descriptions. It would be real slick... atleast to have key crew members anyhow that we can do that with.... and whats with all those useless militants? it would be nice to be able to stick them on some turrets to give a better accuracy bonus to the turrets or something!

but honestly even if the crew doesn't give bonuses it'd still be cool just to be able to add crew bio's names and portraits to your ship info to give it some character....

Lusulpher
Gallente
Posted - 2008.09.17 04:17:00 - [214]
 

Ok...ship crews are immersive...but bonuses can really only be useful for larger ships(Capitals are CITIES) staffed with larger crews as a simple T1/T2 ship should have negligible combat bonuses just because they brought along a Janitor.
When a capital ship brings along 50k Janitors rounded down to 500-5000 item Janitors(brigades of the carefree tw@ts) and stuffs them in a crew bay or whatever...naturally that capital pilot can be given a 1% bonus to Repair? (cycle time? Amount? Some, all?)
Don't care, in the next lagfest, he survives 1% longer, might even make it. That covers the extent crews should have in EVE Space Gameplay(Ambulation/Planetside can have COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY BALANCED RULES.)

What ship crews should be tied into, is the T1/T2 Bridge.

*Jump into Lus' roleplayer mode for a minute*


You've undocked your mission-running Dominix for the 100th 4500LP mission. You are going to treat yourself to a new faction Battleship when you return.
As you spiral through the warptunnel you scroll in past your Hullview to see an elegant, ergonomic green-tinted arch of a room with a simply-rendered crew(from an internal cameraview or the Podview). They move very little, but look forward towards their engagement with their NPC brethren. Some of them are from the same homeworlds, even hometowns, even homes.

Their lives suffer mortal limits and they will focus on surviving until it is snuffed short. You promise yourself they will make it long enough to crew your new faction ship.
Especially, the older Gallente officer nearest you, who in his mute world, barks orders that have reinforced your overhead commands to their most efficient format. He will retire and be replaced with some bright-eyed cadet, who you will also watch to retirement...You, the Immortal, watching fields of grass grow, and wither.

You drop out of warp and hastily engage all of the scrambling pirates frigates(scroll out to Shipview). Oh Lord! A clumsy drone has triggered more aggro. You are rescrambled and in for a pounding. Back on Bridgeview, they won't sweat till armour melts.
Structure melting. Drones and guns missing the last 2 scram/web drones. You are high on cap, but your equipment simply can't tank this. They are in the module manning it already.)
You take one last look at the crew of the Bridge, and watch as their motions in their muted world become more frantic. The window in front of them bursts outward to relieve them of their muted lives as they are pulled into the yonder with muted screams. The Officer will not retire. You have failed another crew.

Your escape pod is shortly thrown out, thereafter, and you sit for a moment reflecting on what you have just experienced.
You buy a new Dominix at dock thanks to proper insurance to replace losses...hmmm. Step aboard and promptly stare at the unassuming, determined-faced, but grim, female Officer.
She's younger, but she's no fool. She will pilot a faction BS before the day is through. You are careless, but you are no fool either.


*roleplay end*


Imagine when you fail at PvP now...

I just gave the death penalty another boost Twisted Evil I fuuking rock!

Lusulpher
Gallente
Posted - 2008.09.17 04:21:00 - [215]
 

Pirates of the Burning Sea anyone? You can see the crew work gunnery, sailing etc, etc...It can be done in EVE with clever programming. Not high priority until Planetside, but vital as "the sum of parts" deal.

Features Summary
1-I'm asking for 3-4 stylized-rendered 2D avatars with some gif-like triggered animation, depending on ship danger.
Easy to use by scrolling
2-Generate some new faces after a ship loss maybe,aging?
3-Custom settings, to choose the makeup of Bridge crew, for more roleplay.
4-Bonus for Capital crew bay requirements, bay can't get filled for all the bonuses, several maybe.
5-NO T1/T2 CREW BONUS EVER!
6-Don't do it till needed, but announce it to make those other games MORE JEALOUS(might not be possible lol). It's got that Starship Trooper grim about it. Go on, throw it on the Drawingboard.

Primary school stuff CCP, kindergartner even...Begging for it...Crying or Very sad

Eljar Kjeldsson
Caldari
Exystance.
Wayfarer Stellar Initiative
Posted - 2008.09.20 10:02:00 - [216]
 

Hasnt anyone thought the crew will be in pods aswell.

Lusulpher
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.02 05:14:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: Eljar Kjeldsson
Hasnt anyone thought the crew will be in pods aswell.


Due to crew escape pods causing LAG and compromising armour tanks, CONCORD has denied ship blueprints that contain them.

They are expendable.

Legion Reaper
Posted - 2008.10.02 05:35:00 - [218]
 

WORST IDEA EVER! and no i will never read this topic again

Thunderbird Anthares
ISK Reliability Inc.
Inver Brass
Posted - 2008.10.02 12:22:00 - [219]
 

STOP THIS FLAMEFEST NOW
you act like a bunch of sissys and 5 year old children

i like the idea of crew (yes it is there),and no,i didnt bother reading the past 6 or so pages because it turned to flamefest even there
but i`d like to keep it simple,meaning no quests from crew,no crew loyality,etc
keep it simple with bonuses,maybe give the crew ability to repair hull very slowly if they have enough experience,but thats about it

Jimbob Hennings
Posted - 2008.10.11 09:29:00 - [220]
 

Hi to all from nIceland.

Having a crew brings me back to Frontier Elite, the old AMIGA/DOS games. You could employ people for bridge positions.

I like the Idea and know it's probably under consideration at CCP, so I hope they could implement any crew members, eventually.

This game just keeps getting better and better...WooHoo!

Ashley Thomas
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.12 01:52:00 - [221]
 

i like the idea of ships crew, giving a very slight bones of some kind, like repping modules or hull/armor over time, playing a little damage control, or repairing drones while they're in the bay. i wouldn't go into specialized crews though, just keep it simple. a general crew, amount depending on ship, and perhaps give them orders to do one of the above things.

Odessima
Caldari
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2008.10.12 08:00:00 - [222]
 

Edited by: Odessima on 12/10/2008 08:00:07
This all reminds me of battlecruiser3000ad

Manos Soban
Caldari
Twilight Federation
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:21:00 - [223]
 

I like the idea. It's the first step CCP will take to have ships landing zones and operations on planets. Though it will slow down the system, I muse. It's a start, it's a start...

Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2008.10.16 16:36:00 - [224]
 

Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 16/10/2008 16:57:56
Originally by: Luminus Mallus
The game would benefit immensely from such an important feature as crews, in terms of immersion and gameplay.
And there's DOZENS of ways to discuss it (our desire), and to implement it (CCP's job).
This is not correct. The game could benefit from such a feature. That depends completely on the way of implementation. Crews simply being something you spend some ISK on and then get bonuses doesn't add one bit. Or maybe as much as rigs, which isn't exactly much at all.
Rigs were meant as a means to 'modify your ship' and to 'customize' it.
Now look, does anyone talk about the fancy modifications on his ship that make it totally unique? No. Because almost everyone uses the same rigs. Rigs merely lead to more min-maxing. Great stuff.

Ok, so much for 'CCP knows best' how to handle things.
Funnily enough some players were absolutely right about the flaws and how things would develop.

As for the "CCP's job" - yes of course it's CCP's job to decide and to implement.
But for one thing there are a lot of experienced players who are actually quite knowledgeable and often tend to be right about issues, so it would be unwise on the part of CCP to ignore them.
For another thing CCP devs themselves have stated that they want players to elaborate on their ideas and bring forth good arguments. They want and appreciate suggestions which are nicely worked out. And they want discussion, constructive discussion, of course, because although they're devs, they are not omniscient and they like to hear what players think about it, what the downsides might be, etc.
Because, you know, sometimes the players are right.

Now please don't tell anyone to shut up because you're right and it's CCP's job and your suggestion is good and they don't have a clue.

I totally understand and support Marcus' objections, since they're based on experience which roughly matches my experience.
I admit he exaggerates a bit, but that's probably just the rough tone you develop after some time in a madhouse like this forum.
Many players just want 'more bonuses', which in fact doesn't add to the game, especially if it's done in a way similar to rigs.
On the contrary, it very likely creates problems and balance issues.

Sassaniak
Posted - 2008.10.20 18:10:00 - [225]
 

Edited by: Sassaniak on 20/10/2008 18:17:49
Crew would do the auto stuff better? like auto target enemies and start repairs ship/drones(when docked) and ... really i think that thats all they should do, the current auto target stuff really sucks, so maybe the crew are the answer?
not shoot or add bonuses but do auto things better?

POS Crew! POS Crew!

ShadowDraqon
The Quantum Company
Independent Faction
Posted - 2008.10.20 20:34:00 - [226]
 

1) STOP FLAMING

2) I'm gonna quote myself here:
Originally by: ShadowDraqon
Very HappyI like it. As for the fact that larger ships (cruisers, BSs) have crews of 100s or 1000s, how about having to worry only about officers:
Gun crew officer: can get maximum performance out of your gun crew: 2% reduction to reloading time
Etc. Better officers = better bonuses = cost more. If you don't want to pay them you could have officers with no special training.


instead of worrying about micromanaging the crew, you'd just hire officers (specially trained slave-keepers for amarr?). They would manage the crew for you, but require regular pay. The difference from an officer with only basic training(and no noticed pay) would be small performance bonuses:

Veteran gun crew officer:
Can get maximum performance out of your gun crew.
Bonus: 2% reduction to reloading time.

Special training Drone bay crew officer:
Skilled at regulating maintenance for docked drones.
Bonus: [number] drone armor/hull hitpoints repaired per second for docked drones.

Higher education Chief engineer:
Has advanced training at maintaining a ship's power core and regulating power flow throughout the ship.
Bonus: (some cap related or powergrid bonus)

Higher education Astrometrics officer:
Specially educated scanner operator.
Bonus: (some scanner bonus)

and so on...
This way you would only have to worry about finding good officers, and they can then worry about the rest of the crew.

Apolion
Posted - 2008.10.26 02:23:00 - [227]
 

Great Ideas guys!
please let me chime in here on some posible benefits to implimenting crews.
the game allready has an issue with LAG that comes about directly from population issues. yes crews adds 1)more complexity to the game but all crew load can be offloaded to the client once a ship is out of station since there is no need to inform servers or other ships as to the status of the crew within a separate ship.(for you guys that arent programers the "client" is the computer your playing on at the moment at home not the servers that keep track of things. the "LAG" mostly comes from the masive amount of data that needs to be managed from everyone playing the game in the same vecinity to handel fireing solutions, ship positions, and player commands...)
2)Setting up crew positions now can even be a stepping stone for multi-player ships once ambulation becomes real. Its incomprehensible to here critisisum of such a wonderfull enhancement to this game as the posibilities would increase exponentialy.
Once muli-playerships are introduced, 3)the game mechanics could be altered to take advantage of "real players" manning stations on board. this would be a real benefit to new players to be able to train up skills as they hitch a ride with a vetran player to help boost up there skills maybe a little faster than the simple time trainning that the game machanics offers now. also ships with mulit-player configurations might be somewhat more uber than there lone pilot counterparts with boosts to specific module enahncements by haveing a "real player" attend duties realted to modules. 4)this will allow the servers to somewhat reduce some of the data load from players that would otherwise be manning individual ships with there respecive loads to the game.
5)ship crews provide for a more enhanced platform from wich the devs can develope more varied missions. I dream some day of sending out the order to "target propultion only" and giveing the order to prepare to board enemy ship!" think of the scenarios this could add the the game!
This is not simply a wish for more uber ships to uterly destory opponents this would fundimentaly increase the variety of things to do in a game that is allready mature with a solid vetran base but is begining to see the "been there done that" im bord danger. I've seen this as I'm a 47 year old fart and have played every thing playable.

One problem with this is CCP's game design style wich truly tries to bring changes in a measured and well executed manner. Yes, there are bugs but nothing like any other game of this sort. This move I am proposing will requier a change that would be by far more profound. I believe they have the fortitude to walk here but it may take them some years.
I hope not too long as it stands now Im looking out at infinity and its sameness is a sad void.

Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
Posted - 2008.10.27 00:12:00 - [228]
 

I support the idea of crew requirements for larger ships.

Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.10.29 02:30:00 - [229]
 

Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 29/10/2008 02:31:37
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
If you really want some immersion RP, then pretend everytime you activate an Armor Repper, that you have little crewmen hammering on the hull. Or that your Cap recharging is actually little hamster wheels spinning in the Gym. But don't expect CCP to add yet another point of contention to an already SERIOUSLY unbalanced gameplay. They are totally clueless when it comes to patches and nerfs... as is evident every single time they try and make additions or subtractions. They make the game vastly skewed to some degree, then spend months trying to correct the problem. And when they "correct" something, it usually renders it completely useless to the general populace.

SO... still NEED to see what those 6k crewmen are doing at all times? Or can we move on?



This, tbh. Crews exist in RP, if you want to talk about them you can, but can we move on to more important things? Like, idk, fixing preexisting or soon-to-be-existing major balance issues that matter a lot more than whatever slight bonus another time and money sink like crew would lend you?

eth 2
Posted - 2009.01.09 01:07:00 - [230]
 

i had the same idea a few months ago glad to see im not alone ships crew has many new posibiltys

Hercules Soban
Caldari
Captain Soban Fleet
Posted - 2009.01.09 09:27:00 - [231]
 

having crews is a magnificent idea! the crews should be balanced per ship since a frigate is as big as the AIFEL TOWER!

CCP TAKE ACTION!!!

Sky Lunartakker
FSK23
Posted - 2009.01.10 19:39:00 - [232]
 

I also love this Idea of ship-crews - this makes the world very much more "touchful" and more realistic. In front of the magnific projects CCP is in running, these mechanics are quiet hard to implement atm I guess.
But why not just give the ships some easy data in the info about lengh of the ship, needed crew, and how expensive the crew is per day/week/month. This also would be a nice isk-loss (the economists would like this ;).

After all there would be a new Market-Folder: >>PERSONAL<< -> This would be a good start for Ambulation, and the *G* lots of NPC workers light *ahem* Janitors, Exotic Dancers.. and later some day.. Marines and so on ^^




Demyen
Caldari
Black Mesa Mavericks
Posted - 2009.01.21 04:43:00 - [233]
 

Edited by: Demyen on 21/01/2009 04:57:12
Edited by: Demyen on 21/01/2009 04:56:31
/signed. I've always wanted a crew.

On the topic of crew numbers, I'd like to propose what should be a relatively simple solution while allowing for realistically high numbers: Each ship class has certain types of top-level officers that you hire. For example, a Frigate that only needs one crew will require a First Mate, while a Battleship requires a chief engineer, chief gunnery officer, electronics, medic(?). Each of these divisions has a crew compliment requirement that varies by ship type, and, since you're a demigod who can't be bothered to interview countless mortals to man your ship, hiring falls to the officers.

What that means is that the quality of the crew will be affected by the quality of the officers; you'll only have to be bothered to pay a handful of crew as they will distribute wages for you; and just about every other good idea in this thread can be implemented as an attribute of the officer, skill training for example.

As a slight aside, I don't see the problem with using the same always-learning mechanic for crew, since one can imagine them working through digital courses on their time off or when your ship isn't engaging in any serious activity (running L1 missions in a cruiser, for example ;3).

Thoughts? Ideas? Criticism? Horrible insults?

Edit: Sorry Draqon, didn't see your post before I stuck mine up here. Also, very well said Apolion. I totally agree.

Terra Mikael
Horizon Dynamics
Posted - 2009.01.21 05:00:00 - [234]
 

Lame.

If I had a crew, I would undock and jettison them into space just to watch them turn inside out.

If this was allowed then yes, I woud go for it. free corpses are always nice.Laughing

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.01.21 05:07:00 - [235]
 

My crew are the magic inside the machine that turns my instruction to "Activate armour reppers" into the action of actually repairing the damage to the port engine nacelle.

They're already there.

We just need animations like the repair drones from Homeworld :) If you zoom in close enough to the ship you can see the drones (or workmen?) wandering over the hull doing their welding and whatnot.


Anh Nguyen
Posted - 2009.01.21 08:41:00 - [236]
 

Edited by: Anh Nguyen on 21/01/2009 08:42:31
Edited by: Anh Nguyen on 21/01/2009 08:41:22
I like the idea of ship crew, the ship's performance should be affected by the crews.

There's should be also a fixed crew requirement with regard to the ship's size, less the ship will perform worse, more the ship will perform better but with diminishing return in bonus with regard to the exceed crew.

Crew quality also need to be taken into account, elite crew will take more effort to acquire than plain crew (in term of time, money, or whatever, you choose one).

Crew should also be overloaded (like overloading module), to hurry them in combat to give more performance effectiveness in emergency time, but they will get fatigued thus have reduced effectiveness afterward.

Ubasti Blu
Posted - 2009.02.09 02:10:00 - [237]
 

I was watching on the Alliance Tourney and a discussion with one of the devs turned into the idea of, "Well because monetary loss is pretty negligible with the current economy, we're going to add a skill loss with losing your ship."

Along those lines. Instead of adding something clearly unsynchronized with the idea of a pod capsuleers skills and why they lose their skill points, I'd like to point out adding ship crews to some extent, even if they're isolated to that specific ship would be better.

For example, you have an abaddon. It gets a crew skill rating of novice. You fly it through and it gets a certain amount of experience for the crew based on tangible advancements with that ship. So if you have a ship for 3-4 months, the skill crew becomes advanced from novice. They get 2-3% bonus to armor points, hardeners, etc from when you first received the ship.

When you lose your ship, your crew is totally lost and all that time with that ships crew becoming more skilled is lost. So then, there's a realistic connection between the tangible skill loss on a ship to the pilots loss. That way, certain ships become more prized for having existed longer, better crews, etc. Rather than causing an artificial pilot skill loss for just having to be ejected out of the ship.

I would prefer something put in as a reason to cherish ships and not throw them away so lightly. There's even simple things like you're in a tourney and losing your ship in a tourney will cause you skill point loss that you started training?

Either way, out there for consideration.

Iron Cog
Posted - 2009.02.18 19:32:00 - [238]
 

No i didnt read the last 7 pages so if i say something that has been said already forgive me.

Has anyone thought of non item based crew? I mean that real people fill the positions of gunnery officer, navigator and such. this would be for Cap Ships of course, but each person would basically act as the booster for that skill type. So a person with all lvl 5 gunnery skills could sign on with a ship and his skills would be applied to the ship for that particular area of operation. again with the gunner example, whoever is in the gunnery slot's skills are applied to the weapon systems of the cap. Whoever is drone manager his skills would be applied to the drone operation of the cap.

I hope im making sense.

Strike Valheru
Caldari
Divine Retribution
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2009.02.18 21:49:00 - [239]
 

omg I had this nice idea, typed it by the time i was done my login timed out so it didnt post, so im not gona rewrite the whole thing.

Jasper Pravitas
Posted - 2009.03.10 22:42:00 - [240]
 

Ship crews are appealing to many of us and I for one would like to see them. All of the ideas I've read so far are infeasible because they require massive effort to implement (which is why I suspect CCP has not been in a hurry). So, I'd like to share my quick and dirty crew implementation.

Create a new window, just like the drone bay or the cargohold (it even has volume). The only items that can be placed in this 'Quarters' window are new 'crew' items (basically tagged passengers). These crew items have volume, representing the amount of space they need to live (bigger space for more important characters, etc.). The default volume for the Quarters window on any ship is zero. It can be increased by a low-slot module called living quarters.

For RP purposes, these crewmembers can be considered leaders. This maintains the idea that an unseen crew is still present in the ship. These leaders provide small bonuses to the ships performance. I will refrain from listing specific percentages because that really needs to be determined through game balance consideration. Keep in mind any advantages by crew are tempered by the loss of a valuable low-slot. These crew items would be provided in loyalty stores, with an RP theme appropriate to that corporation (Fed Navy, Guristas, etc.)

There are no other features beyond what ive listed here, at least for a long time. This, unfortunately, includes experience. A non-exhaustive list of possible crew items ive dreamed up:

Helmsman - faster align
Astrogeologist - mining yield boost
Sensor Specialist - scan resolution boost/other sensor stuff
Engineer - cap/grid bonus
Stevedore - cargo capacity boost
Computer tech - CPU bonus
Damage Control - repairer bonuses

Everything I've described should be cake to code if we as players wanted it. It fits within the current software architecture and could be coded in a fortnight. The only way we will ever see crew is if a majority of us say we want it and we keep it simple like this.

Just my two cents,

-Jasper


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