open All Channels
seplocked Market Discussions
blankseplocked [Attention] Investors! [UPDATED / CLOSED]
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Cainam
Hypherians
Posted - 2007.03.19 19:19:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Cainam on 10/04/2007 22:13:15
Investing round failure


It is my sad duty to inform you all that the Hypherians Capital Productions venture will never reach stage 2.

The fundraising deadline was hit today, and with only ~3b raised we were about 7b short from the minimum for project to continue.


I would like to thank those who invested in this venture for putting their faith and their hard-earned ISK in my care.

As of 2007-04-11, 00:02 all investments have been returned to their owners.




Original post below



This might have ended up in the wrong forum so I'll provide a Linky

EDIT: Since The great forum-master thinks that this forum is better for discussion, we ignore what I said about keeping replies in the OP. Making a link to here in the OP instead! Wink

You have to listen when DS says somthing... atleast when it something about the forums


Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.03.19 19:22:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Dark Shikari on 19/03/2007 19:28:41
Four obligatory questions. Going to post here as Sell Orders threads get pushed to the bottom really fast, so this forum is better for discussion IMHO.

1. Why should we trust you?
2. How much of the profits will be dividended?
3. If 2) is a very high percentage, what's in it for you?
4. What if you end up with a bunch of capital ships you can't sell?

Cainam
Hypherians
Posted - 2007.03.19 19:48:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Cainam on 19/03/2007 19:50:01
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 19/03/2007 19:28:41
Four obligatory questions. Going to post here as Sell Orders threads get pushed to the bottom really fast, so this forum is better for discussion IMHO.

1. Why should we trust you?
2. How much of the profits will be dividended?
3. If 2) is a very high percentage, what's in it for you?
4. What if you end up with a bunch of capital ships you can't sell?


Ok here goes:

1: I have been in EVE since '05. I have used my main and my "main alt" in these posts. I don't really what else to do to earn your trust. If you have any ideas feel free to share them.

I have kept mostly to myself, and havn't offended anyone, so I am not really "known" by the community. If it makes you feel better I could get some friends to make a post here...

2: Up until phase 4 100% will be paid out. This to ensure a fast return on the investment. After that its up to what's decided on the shareholders meeting.

3: My corp will own ~50% of the shares until phase 5 (if implemented) Thus I will recive dividends aswell, and since the idea is to make ISK... well you get it.

4: The value is still there. If we (the shareholders) see that dividends are decreasing we always have the option to decommision the enterprise. Since most of the investment is in BPO's no isk will be lost. The "leftover" ships will sell over time.

This is explained in the main post. We have several "outs" so to say.

Hope that cleared a few things up!

Edit: Missed some stuff in your post..

Cainam
Hypherians
Posted - 2007.03.19 20:09:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Jon Asus
What is to stop you from running off with 14,990,000,000isk? That'd buy quite a nice character...

What have you done to work up the capital you will be putting into this venture?



Now, first of all as I allready stated in this post and the OP. I have no way to prove that I wont run off with the ISK. If you have any ideas how to prove it please tell me!

All I can do is turn the question around on you and say something stupid like "Why should I answer this unless you prove that you are an investor"


As for how I have raised my part of the isk.

I've played this game since '05 and I started out by running missions (and I still do).

After a while I started playing around with building Battleships and found it to be very profitable. I'd actually go so far to say that if you are flying a Raven, and bought it of the market somewhere in the northen regions the odds are pretty good that it was I who built it. Wink

Cainam
Hypherians
Posted - 2007.03.19 20:23:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Chribba
1-man corps is always hard to pull off these types of investments unless your character/corp has some sort of reputation, and imo 10M for a share is quite risky as said in other posts, you could just run of with the ISK, may I suggest you make 10 times as many shares and drop the price 10 times (1M/share) that way I would imagine investors may have an easier way of investing maybe only like 2M instead of 20M since probably most could lose 2M if this turns out as a scam.

Good luck with the investments.



This is a good piece of advice, and I will follow it.

I will update the OP as soon as the shares are created.

Further, if you are so worried about the 1-man thing I have offerd to take in investors or investors alt's in the corp.


Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2007.03.19 20:37:00 - [6]
 

The 1-man thing is because there are quite a number of scams happening and most of the time it is a single person in a small and usually unknown corporation since you just trash it afterwards. Hence fewer pilots trusts solo players (I know by experience as I've played solo for a long time).

I am in no way saying it can't be done, I'm only saying that it makes it harder - but with a good business plan like yours I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to go through all phases, as long as the investors has a saftey net - whichever that net may be.

/c

Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Posted - 2007.03.19 22:55:00 - [7]
 

Pardon me if this scenario doesn't make sense, I don't know how the share system operates.

With your main corp retaining 51% of shares, what's to stop you from voting to create many times more shares and diluting the value of the shares that investors have purchased?

EG 1000 shares, 501 in your posession, 499 in investors'. You vote "yes" on creating another 9000 shares, which you transfer to your main corp. Your investors now own less than 5% and you 95%.

Like I said, I might be misunderstanding the share system, but I figure this is a good a time as any to ask. If there's a writeup somewhere on how the share system works that'd be good too so I don't make myself look like too much of a moron. Shocked

Cainam
Hypherians
Posted - 2007.03.19 23:50:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
Pardon me if this scenario doesn't make sense, I don't know how the share system operates.

With your main corp retaining 51% of shares, what's to stop you from voting to create many times more shares and diluting the value of the shares that investors have purchased?

EG 1000 shares, 501 in your posession, 499 in investors'. You vote "yes" on creating another 9000 shares, which you transfer to your main corp. Your investors now own less than 5% and you 95%.

Like I said, I might be misunderstanding the share system, but I figure this is a good a time as any to ask. If there's a writeup somewhere on how the share system works that'd be good too so I don't make myself look like too much of a moron. Shocked



Yes, this is possible. Unfortunately I can also take the ISK and run like hell, or take the built ships and fly off some nice resort never to be heard from again.

I really wish there were a "safe" way for investors to invest in this kind of venture. It would make for a much more interesting market climate in EVE.

At least it would make my life easier Wink


Shar Tegral
Posted - 2007.03.20 00:16:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Cainam
I really wish there were a "safe" way for investors to invest in this kind of venture. It would make for a much more interesting market climate in EVE.

I don't wish for it at all. If the venture capital market was safe all we'd see is the celebration of mediocrity. Credibility and trust would simply be marketing by-words instead of the valuable commodities that are.

What you should want is to work on making a background with some smaller projects. I grant that your appetite may have progressed from what your mega-industrial solo game play may have previously satisfied. However you are also paying the penalty for not having been out and about in the open market place.

You can be maverick and simply accept that you'll draw naysayers and not many adherents... until you prove yourself. Or you can try working in, and with, the community itself until you can strike out for venture capital stardom. BTW I'm a maverick so don't think I dislike the methodology.

I just think people need to research, as well, what the public response is going to be to how they present themselves. All this frustrated "how does a person get credibility?!?" is nothing more than a whine that translates as: "I want a shortcut past the things I should be doing to get started."

Everyone wants to be star.

No one seems to want to earn it.


Cainam
Hypherians
Posted - 2007.03.20 00:51:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Cainam
I really wish there were a "safe" way for investors to invest in this kind of venture. It would make for a much more interesting market climate in EVE.

I don't wish for it at all. If the venture capital market was safe all we'd see is the celebration of mediocrity. Credibility and trust would simply be marketing by-words instead of the valuable commodities that are.

What you should want is to work on making a background with some smaller projects. I grant that your appetite may have progressed from what your mega-industrial solo game play may have previously satisfied. However you are also paying the penalty for not having been out and about in the open market place.

You can be maverick and simply accept that you'll draw naysayers and not many adherents... until you prove yourself. Or you can try working in, and with, the community itself until you can strike out for venture capital stardom. BTW I'm a maverick so don't think I dislike the methodology.

I just think people need to research, as well, what the public response is going to be to how they present themselves. All this frustrated "how does a person get credibility?!?" is nothing more than a whine that translates as: "I want a shortcut past the things I should be doing to get started."

Everyone wants to be star.

No one seems to want to earn it.




I hear you loud and clear.

The advice you are giving is to the point and well put.

However, in this case a smaller project is something I easily could do myself and that's why I drew up this project. To get involved in the community so to say.

Now, any of us here could easily throw away 10m isk or even 100m isk on a project. Some could probably throw away 1b without it making any real difference. My point is that smaller projects is often something you just do yourself.

Now, if it takes that I create a corp that boldly announces an investment opportunity in building frigates or cruisers I'd feel quite silly, since that is something almost every player in the game can do. However, if this is what it takes to be taken seriously that is what I will do.

I will let this investment round run its course, and if the project falls through I will be back with something smaller if that is what it takes to prove myself.




Shar Tegral
Posted - 2007.03.20 01:35:00 - [11]
 


Originally by: Cainam
I will let this investment round run its course, and if the project falls through I will be back with something smaller if that is what it takes to prove myself.

It is nice to be emulated. As this is exactly what I myself am doing. Well, it is one of my goals. I never do anything without a few goals all wrapped up into one.


Jester Marc
Posted - 2007.03.20 10:56:00 - [12]
 

Ok, I really hate talk without action. Let me be the first to buy shares with you and if I get screwed... then we'll all know, ok? Put me down for 10 shares @100mil.
I'll eve-mail you later on today and send you the isk.

I understand the skittishness but since I brought up the one alt corp dealie thing I'll also be the first to test the waters. I'll keep everybody updated.

Cainam
Hypherians
Posted - 2007.03.20 11:52:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Cainam on 20/03/2007 11:49:34
Originally by: Jester Marc
Ok, I really hate talk without action. Let me be the first to buy shares with you and if I get screwed... then we'll all know, ok? Put me down for 10 shares @100mil.
I'll eve-mail you later on today and send you the isk.

I understand the skittishness but since I brought up the one alt corp dealie thing I'll also be the first to test the waters. I'll keep everybody updated.



For your information: Chribba gave some advice earlier on lowering the price per share to 1 m per share and create more shares

Thus if you want to invest 100m you will receive 100 shares

The OP is now updated with this info


Further, I want to thank you for your confidence in me and in this venture. I look forward to hear from you.

Ji Cagimus
The Plexus Research Institute
Posted - 2007.03.20 13:07:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Ji Cagimus on 20/03/2007 13:15:01
Edited by: Ji Cagimus on 20/03/2007 13:04:18
All these references to small investments to boost your name recognition and making investing with you "safer" is great, however, the RL market is very much the same issue we have here. There are safe investments with mediocre returns, and then there are the risky investments that have the potential to yield huge returns. Not that you've laid out an investment that shows huge dividends, but there are many variables at play here within the market that could allow for that to happen I suppose. As you pointed out, more and more EVEians are having their capital skills mature on a daily basis, potentially increasing the sales, but driving market prices down. When it comes to this, you simply sell more (which you have noted as doing with the battleship market in the north) ;-)

I'm with Jester Marc, this is a "small investment" on my part, that has the potential to yield worthy returns. I too will keep everyone posted on the progress of this venture.

Put me down for 100 shares.

Niton Stormrider
Offworld Miners and Fabricators Guild
Rising Orbit Free Trade League
Posted - 2007.03.20 16:47:00 - [15]
 

Ah, what the heck. I've been playing for only a little over a month, but I've been interested in investing from the start so I might as well begin here. I haven't got as much money to throw around as more established players, so put me down for 10 shares. I'll Evemail your alt later today, since we're in the big patch downtime atm.

Here's to doing business. If I get burned, I will have no choice but to viciously mock you from where I sit in my T1 cuiser. Laughing

Sun Win
Mutually Assured Distraction
Posted - 2007.03.20 17:28:00 - [16]
 

Do I understand the plan correctly that I won't expect to see any return on my investment at all for 4-6 months?

Cainam
Hypherians
Posted - 2007.03.20 19:50:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Sun Win
Do I understand the plan correctly that I won't expect to see any return on my investment at all for 4-6 months?


It is all stated in the OP. This is a long term investment so your estimate of 4-6 months is correct.


Daladar Sinfein
Hypherians Capital Productions
Posted - 2007.03.21 02:22:00 - [18]
 

Due to a typo only a total of 29000 shares was created, the final 1000 shares will be created in 24h...

Succeeded to mess up the share-creation twice now... Embarassed
Let's all hope this is all that goes wrong with this venture! Wink


Skarii TuThess
East Aridia Trading Company
Posted - 2007.03.21 12:04:00 - [19]
 

Cainam,

do you (or any corp member) have any experience with running this sort of operation?

Cainam
Hypherians
Posted - 2007.03.21 14:01:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Skarii TuThess
Cainam,

do you (or any corp member) have any experience with running this sort of operation?


That depends on what you are referring to. Yes, I have experience in running a large scale industrial operation in EVE. No, I haven't any experience in dealing with a publicly owned company in EVE...

I hope this answers your question.

Daladar Sinfein
Hypherians Capital Productions
Posted - 2007.03.21 14:02:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Daladar Sinfein
Due to a typo only a total of 29000 shares was created, the final 1000 shares will be created in 24h...

Succeeded to mess up the share-creation twice now... Embarassed
Let's all hope this is all that goes wrong with this venture! Wink




Strange things are happening... The corp info only shows 29000 shares, but I have 30000 shares in total. It seems it wasn't a typo after all.
Lets hope this matter is resolved over the next DT.

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.03.21 16:35:00 - [22]
 

Corps start with a base 1000 shares, so 29000 + 1000 = 30000.

Daladar Sinfein
Hypherians Capital Productions
Posted - 2007.03.21 17:14:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Corps start with a base 1000 shares, so 29000 + 1000 = 30000.


Oh, yes. This I am aware of. However, I thought that the corp info would list the total number of shares in the corp and not only the ones created after the 1000 shares created when the corp was started.

That is: corp info lists the corp as having 29000 shares when it in fact has 30000 shares.

Cainam
Hypherians
Posted - 2007.03.23 14:15:00 - [24]
 

Weekly update



I am happy to report that five investors has committed in this venture so far.

We still have a long way to go to our 15b target but we are making slow and steady progress. With some good fortune, and an additional handful of investors we may still hit our target on time.

Yours truly

Cainam / Daladar



Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2007.03.23 22:51:00 - [25]
 

i believe i counted 3 or 4 investors in this thread. i might've missed some. who all has invested what thus far? just curious.Cool

Kldraina
Posted - 2007.03.23 23:46:00 - [26]
 

Well, I'm an idiot, so I just invested 2 bil. Guess I'll see how it pans out.

Daladar Sinfein
Hypherians Capital Productions
Posted - 2007.03.24 00:05:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
i believe i counted 3 or 4 investors in this thread. i might've missed some. who all has invested what thus far? just curious.Cool


The investors that want to make their investment public has posted on this forum. I have to respect the privacy of those who have chosen to contact me via mail or convo.

If they want to come out and make a post here they will do so, and if they prefer to stay anonymous, then that is up to him/her/them/that Wink

Cainam
Hypherians
Posted - 2007.03.26 15:36:00 - [28]
 

Fund raising status


I am happy to announce that so far a total of 2,3b ISK has been raised.

We still have a long way to go to our target of 15b so there's still an opportunity for you to invest.

Yours truly

Cainam / Daladar

Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2007.03.26 15:46:00 - [29]
 

This IPO is perfectly suited towards a Trustee-based corporation. If you can manage to persuade some trusted individual(s) to manage yours I'd be pretty happy to invest.

Cainam
Hypherians
Posted - 2007.03.27 20:26:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Ray McCormack
This IPO is perfectly suited towards a Trustee-based corporation. If you can manage to persuade some trusted individual(s) to manage yours I'd be pretty happy to invest.



Could you explain in more detail how you figure this would work?

It might be something that's arrangeable...

I have already opened the door for investors to put alts in the corp, so if that's what you mean you are free to do so.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only