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SigmaPi
Valkyr Industries
Posted - 2007.03.27 14:45:00 - [31]
 

Thank you all for the input, it means a lot, considering how much work I put into this project.

In an attempt to answer some questions, I will just explain how I see this ship being fielded.

As one of the responces stated it, I wanted this ship to be to a battleship as a destroyer is to a frig, or a battlecruiser is to a cruiser. The main idea here is that this ship would be able to inflict a world of hurt on battleships and such, but would be near worthless against really small targets. I didnt want a ship that could just appear and **** anything it saw, this ship is intended to be supported.

Having said that, I dont want it to be able to just sit at a gate ganking battleships all day long. The basic stats on these ships lead it to being able to tank *reasonably* well, but compared to a real capital ship, it would be nothing. I think these ships would be a nice steping stone level of ships before carriers or dreads, and also would have more "normal" combat practicality.

I thank you all for your constructive suggestions, and I would appreciate more, I have been very interested in understanding what the community thinks of this idea.

Thanks again,
/Siggy

Euxinus
The Scope
Posted - 2007.03.27 15:12:00 - [32]
 

Great idea imo.
and that drawing is nice.. looking forward to gallente ship :)

/signed

Valerian Xavier
Posted - 2007.03.27 16:16:00 - [33]
 

am i right in thinking that the higher your racial BS skill, the worse tracking you'll have? with bs 5 will i be able to hit anything?

TenthReality
Cartamundi
Posted - 2007.03.27 16:30:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Valerian Xavier
am i right in thinking that the higher your racial BS skill, the worse tracking you'll have? with bs 5 will i be able to hit anything?


No your tracking and RoF will increase based on your racial skills. The idea is these guys are ammo slingers, lot of rounds coming out very quickly.

Doomed Predator
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.03.27 17:34:00 - [35]
 

We need a capital ship that can kill BSes quick.I mean there are destroyes for frigs(they suckBUT are intended to kill frigs),battlecruisers for cruiser and now we could have picker class ships for BSes. In short love the idea so

/signed

El'jonson
Posted - 2007.03.27 19:47:00 - [36]
 

Yea v good idea and we do need a few capital ships (mini dreds/carriers) that can be used more as day 2 day ships. Having said that for 500 mil what I could use is say a ship with say tripple the hitpoints etc of a tier 3 bs, that can mount 1 capital class wep and jump just as far as a a carrier if not a bit furthur.

Essentially a fast or light dred that can be deployed faster and furthur than a normal one, with carriers maybe this isn't as needed because carriers arn't as expensive and are easier to deploy but perhaps they could monut no fighters just act as surport craft and have the jump portel ability.

Karash Amerius
Sutoka
Posted - 2007.03.27 20:15:00 - [37]
 

The idea of a mini-Dread has been kicked around before. A capital "ship of the line" that wasn't specialized in attacking POS installations. Good work on your concept, lets hope it gets the Dev's attention.

Btw, I like the concept artwork, very eve like.

bigfatbird
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.27 20:42:00 - [38]
 

<--- Loves your Idea!!


Arkios Odymei
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.03.27 22:07:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: SigmaPi
"Solas" Picket Class Ship: (Ships / Picket / Minmatar / Solas)

The Minmatar Navy realized how much it sucked, with no since of urgency, the Minmatar tribes forged a new legacy for themselves amongst the stars. With great duress, they finally came up with a plan: duct-tape the Tempest and Typhoon class battleships together. Once they improved the weapons systems and computers onboard, they found much to be happy about.


Hahaha, thats awesome!Laughing


Oh, and /Signed

Just one question. Caldari gets a big missile boat, Amar gets a big laser (both pulse and beam) boat, Minmatar gets a big projectile (both a/c and arty) boat, and Gallente gets a big drone boat (with no turrets).

Where is the hybrid turret boat for us hybrid specced guys?Sad
Other than that, Its an awesome idea that I hope gets looked into.

xHomicide
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.27 22:32:00 - [40]
 

Overall like the ideas.

The jump range seems a little short.

Bonus for rof should be 10% per level.

Targetting range should be closer to 150km to help prevent damp ****.

MasterDecoy
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.03.27 23:34:00 - [41]
 

i like the gist of the idea.

it fills a nice gap that is missing. between battleships and carriers/dreads.

SigmaPi
Valkyr Industries
Posted - 2007.03.28 03:31:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: TenthReality
Originally by: Valerian Xavier
am i right in thinking that the higher your racial BS skill, the worse tracking you'll have? with bs 5 will i be able to hit anything?


No your tracking and RoF will increase based on your racial skills. The idea is these guys are ammo slingers, lot of rounds coming out very quickly.


I would like to take this time to correct this statement, there is some misleading information in both the way Tenth phrased this and in the way the artwork is made. Please read on for the clarification:

For each race of ship, there will be a race specific skill, for example, Gallente Picket Ship, for that skill you will recieve the "per level bonus" (PSB, see first page for those bonuses). As with some ships, you have a "one time bonus," (OTB) in the case of the picket ship, you get a bonus and a nerf. The armor/shield rep ability is the bonus, and the tracking/explosion radius ability is the nerf.

The PSB's will act like any skill related bonus for any ship, as with some specialty ships, the OTB will be applied to the ship/mods on the ship one time as a nerf/bonus.

Say I am using a tech II large armor reper on the amarr picket, because of the OTB of +50% to rep amount, the repper will show an amount of 1200 HP per cycle repaired.

In contrast, say the pilot fits some large tacheon beam lasers to his picket ship, The beam lasers will recieve the PLB's of +25% to RoF and +10% to damage mod (per level) as well as the OTB nerf of -25% to their tracking modifier.

These bonuses (in my mind) keep these ships from hitting anything much smaller than a battleship, but still makes them a threat to battleships and above. I could see these ships being a threat to current capital ships mainly because of their ability to spit the lead down-range.

I still appreciate all of your kind words and efforts to understand the direction I am going with these ship concepts.

Please keep the constructive criticism coming!!

/Siggy

SigmaPi
Valkyr Industries
Posted - 2007.03.28 03:37:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Arkios Odymei


*snip* -Siggy

Where is the hybrid turret boat for us hybrid specced guys?Sad
Other than that, Its an awesome idea that I hope gets looked into.


Well, unfortunately for you, I am a gallente drone *****, and I have always wanted a ship like this. I wish there was a better way i could justify my actions, but thats about the full reasoning in my head as to relegate the gallente picket to a drone ship.

It also gives some better variety in ships than just what guns you fit, know what i mean? It's a totally different concept than, for instance, the amarr ship.

Well, hope I cleared that up.

/Siggy

Ron Simon
DARMATECH
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.28 17:45:00 - [44]
 

/signed

SigmaPi
Valkyr Industries
Posted - 2007.03.28 22:21:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Karsten
Edited by: Karsten on 19/03/2007 18:00:05
i like them :-)
the only weak spot is the very short jump range of 2 ly.
Even understanding that they are primary designed to defend home regions i consider 2 light years a bit to short. I think most constellations are larger.
Give them a little bit longer legs :-)

Or supplement them with with a Escort Carrier family.
Ability to carry 5-6 Fighters and same short jump legs as pickets.


Thank you Karsten for your responce.

In responce to the jump legs of these ships, I find myself agreeing more and more with you. I think what I want to do is execute the following mods to this idea:


  1. Change the jump range of these ships to 4 ly.

  2. Add a per level bonus along the lines of +25% per level to jump range.

  3. Lower the fuel requirements for these ships so that they require less fuel to jump.

  4. Change the cargo bay capacity of all of these ships to a smaller ammount (ensuring that these ships are not used as cargoships).



I think the above changes would change these ships a lot. The ships would have ranges of a carrier before factoring in skills like Jump Drive Operaton and Jump Drive Calibration. These ships would then have the ability to act as a forward capital contingent, able to be on the front lines of the fleet quickly and relatively cheeply.

Tell me what you think of the suggestions above!

Thanks,
/Siggy

Farnett
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION
ORPHANS OF EVE
Posted - 2007.03.28 22:31:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Farnett on 29/03/2007 00:12:29
:-0..........

/signed

These realy oughta be fast tracked to allow smaller entities to participate in capital class warfare. Without ships like these mother ships and titans are just too powerful, and without an effective counter.

but with reguards to the gallente version... It realy needs to have a gun bonus otherwise its 10 drones will just be a lag generator in large engagements. And any capital ship pilot worth his weight will have a smart bomb equiped to their carier, and will use it to take out the drones causing a major headache for the pilot.

Here's what I propose:
Instead of the +1 drone/lvl, have +10% hybrid damage/lvl
Instead of the -25% drone tracking speed, -25% turret tracking speed.

This will give it the best of both worlds imho. You'll loose 50% of your drone damage, but the guns should more than make up for this. Also you gain another level of versatility by adding guns making it much more usefull for fleet engagements. Probably the best part is that it'll prevent this picket from being used as just a bigger version of a nos-domi.

SigmaPi
Valkyr Industries
Posted - 2007.03.30 18:47:00 - [47]
 

Thanks Farnett for the reply.

I've been going over what you proposed in my head and I find myself agreeing with your logic, even though it would go against my personal wishes.

However, I ave to say that I dont like the split in concentration and bonus. If it is going to be a hybrid platform, then so be it, all the bonuses should go towards that.

I will spend a few days trying to come up with a revised suggestion for the gallente picket ship.

Thanks again for your time and responce.
/Siggy

Ben Devin
The Syndicate Inc
DeStInY.
Posted - 2007.03.30 22:51:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Ben Devin on 30/03/2007 22:54:22
Fantastic idea!

I'm several months away from Capital ships, and this looks like a brilliant ship for fleet combat. It has the ability to do solid damage to smaller ships (Battleships in particular) and take a substantial amount of damage.
These ships would be the key to redefining combat completely; giving new strategic abilities to smaller corporations and alliances, which is something EVE is longing for.

/signed Very Happy

Elain Reverse
Caldari
Shokei
Posted - 2007.03.31 04:07:00 - [49]
 

just make their dronebay little bigger aroung 200m (5x heavy,5x medium, 5x small drone), 125 is too low as they will be other way quite vulnerable even to small frig sized gang.

William Hamilton
Caldari
Endless Destruction
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2007.03.31 11:01:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: William Hamilton on 31/03/2007 11:14:11
Edited by: William Hamilton on 31/03/2007 11:10:45
Edited by: William Hamilton on 31/03/2007 11:10:14
Aren't drone-Picket ships are a tad redundant with carriers about?


Make the gallante one a hybrid-boat...


also, I'm not entirely fond of the choice in names, it seems to go against CCPs naming scheme

"Aegis" would be a better gallante name than caldari, caldar could use smothing like "Thunderbird". "Sunder" would make a good name for the Minmatar one.

"Brighton" seems a totaly incorrect name, since it references a location on earth, "Solas" would make more sense here, but it's not great. Pehaps "Exhibition"?


Oh, and also you seem to be adding characteristics that modify their guns and other modules to be kinda "halfway to capital". Would it be possible to give them the powergrid and CPU of a capship but then give them the compliment of these abilities? (like reduced weapon damage etc...)

Primarily because capital turrets look kickass, but secondairly it helps keep module cost in line with ship cost....

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2007.03.31 11:32:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Nova Fox on 31/03/2007 11:34:15
Well its supposed to be an oversized battleship you really cannot have the guns do even half the damage of a cap turrent on a dread in seige.
I also have to agree with the names being alittle off with the sceme. Gallente look up the mythology (aegis sounds nice but most of hte gallente ships are named after norse mythos), Minmatar anything voilent, Amarr a something of religion (testament is the only thing that comes to mind not used yet), and Caldari well a ship this size deserves a mythical beast name, (behemoth)?

Now that i think of it it should probably have a normal drive like other battleshiips have and shouldnt be that much bigger than a battleship something between the battleship size and the carrier size (excluding the bugged chimer of course)and a jump drive thats probably a module for short range (from what i understand capitols have those built in) other than that most of the stats seem agreeable to bad there is no offline version where it can be tested.
closest place i can think of is here... http://hw2evemod.proboards82.com/ they use most of the current game stats for the ships but it will be a while before we see the game out.

The ship role is unique and well needed imo as well, where as flagships are still in limbo because there seems to be no role for them not already taken up by some other ship (fleet command ship), cat wait for the others pictures. And seriously minmatar starship enginineering and design is an art of waving a magnetic pole though scrap field, duct taping everything that sticks to the pole and reinforce with tech 2 duct tape, newere minmatar ships seem to be built with the tech 2 cardboard and less reliant on scraps now so i doubt the sotry of slapping two battleships together is going to fly, lol.

flaming phantom
Minmatar
Tyrell Corp
INTERDICTION
Posted - 2007.03.31 19:59:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: flaming phantom on 31/03/2007 19:58:40
i agree wholly on this. im not good at bs even yet, but someday i would like to goto carriers and dreads and it would be nice to have a class "in between" them, so your not just training for a half year or so before yu can actually jump from bs to osmehting. this way it will only 2 or 3 months before u can upgrade fom those bs.

but man, whats up with the minmitar description?

EDIT: i also think maybe it would be cool if it was kinda a mis between a pocket dread AND carrier, so theres a fair amount of drone space to hold say 10 or so fighters, and hold only a few cruisers or so in it with a small corp bay and all that, but with still the slight tanking abilities of the dread. that way you could see what you liked to do more, but it still wouldnt be nearly as good as the real thing

Urzza
Posted - 2007.03.31 20:04:00 - [53]
 

So, would it be fair to compare these to destroyers, but for killing cruisers and battle cruisers?

Siakel
Posted - 2007.03.31 20:20:00 - [54]
 

While the idea seems interesting... what's with the shipbonus?

Does the ship do less damage the higher you level the skill? As its RoF would go up by 25%, but damage by only 10%, meaning it loses quite a bit of DPS per level?

Or if you meant -25% RoF, this means that at level 5 you'd have -125% RoF, so when you lock a ship you just push 'F1' and the ship dies, your cap becomes empty, and the Node crashes all at the same time?

Maybe it's just written badly, but it needs correcting or more explanation, IMO.

TenthReality
Cartamundi
Posted - 2007.04.01 05:33:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Urzza
So, would it be fair to compare these to destroyers, but for killing cruisers and battle cruisers?


More like the anti-battleship platform. It is to BS as a destroyer is to frigates.

SigmaPi
Valkyr Industries
Posted - 2007.04.01 05:41:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Siakel
While the idea seems interesting... what's with the shipbonus?

Does the ship do less damage the higher you level the skill? As its RoF would go up by 25%, but damage by only 10%, meaning it loses quite a bit of DPS per level?

Or if you meant -25% RoF, this means that at level 5 you'd have -125% RoF, so when you lock a ship you just push 'F1' and the ship dies, your cap becomes empty, and the Node crashes all at the same time?

Maybe it's just written badly, but it needs correcting or more explanation, IMO.


Thank you for the post.

As for your concens with the shop bonuses, I can understand your confusion. It may just be misunderstandings, but to me the bonuses are right, the ships are given a bonus or 25% to their rate of fire.

See post 42 in this thread for more clarification.


Also, your concern with the -125% rate of fire is also understandable. That however, is not how bonuses are figured in Eve, the numbers are evaluated each time.

For example, say my rate of fire is 100 seconds, each level of the skill i have is increasing my rate of fire by 25%.

At level one I would have a 75s rate of fire
[100 - (100*.25)]

At level two I would have a 56.25s rate of fire
[75 - (75*.25)]

et cetera.

Hope that has cleared it all up.

/Siggy

SigmaPi
Valkyr Industries
Posted - 2007.04.01 06:13:00 - [57]
 

Well, seems I have been under a misunderstanding with how bonuses work in game. Please ignore my latest post, I will reply soon with updated numbers and such.

Thanks,
/Siggy

bruja muerte
Seth Duncan IS God
Posted - 2007.04.01 06:33:00 - [58]
 

yummy!!! i love it! it does seem like the perfect stepping stone to get you into a capital while you train for the capital mods. and as it is a capital fleet needs more diversity. abdool you rock man! sigma for president!

Euxinusie
Posted - 2007.05.02 12:00:00 - [59]
 

Still looking forward to your Gallente Picket Design Wink

Dexter Grim
Caldari
Shogo Mobile Armor Division
Posted - 2007.05.02 13:04:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Dexter Grim on 02/05/2007 13:05:53
Originally by: SigmaPi
"Aegis" Picket Class Ship: (Ships / Picket / Caldari / Aegis)

"In an effort to keep pace with the Gallente Navy, the Caldari State commissioned this class of ships to beef up it's navy's defense potential. Although unable to hold its own against a capital fleet, this class of ships is extremely capable against smaller ship types.

+50% to Shield Booster Boost Amount
+25% to Explosion Radius of all Missiles

+25% rate of fire for all missile classes per level
+10% to damage of all missiles per level


I know you stated above about the rate of fire should be -25% to increase the speed of firing, but the +25% to Explosion Radius of all Missiles IMO will only serve to do less damage.
Damage taken by a ship is based upon Explosion Radius, Sig Radius, Speed, et-al. Damage done will be reduced by the amount of the explosion that is outside the sig radius.

Perhaps change this skill to +10% shield resitance/lvl

Other than that, great idea, where can I buy one.

Dex.


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