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Cygnus Zhada
Posted - 2007.03.14 13:09:00 - [1]

Ok, this is my situation;

I have almost 1.2 mil SP and have heavily invested in learning skills and supportskills for gunnery, engineering and all that. Right now I'm flying a Punisher and can fly a Coercer but since I'm able to properly fit that frigate I went back to it, I like it a lot more.

I don't mine, I don't run missions, my money comes from trading using trade specced alt. My goal is to be useful/successful in PVP ASAP. I've downloaded EVEmon and it showed me the following options.

- 10 days from now I can fly a BS with Tachyons, MWD, heavy Nos and large armor rep. Granted I won't be brilliant at it but that just takes a bit of time.

- 25 days from now I can fly an AF (vengeance), since the normal frigates kinda blow due to not having enough midslots (most just have 2, which is 1 short).

So the real question is; should I "waste" my time to train for an AF and be a good frigate pilot or should I just go ahead and follow the normal T1 path, cruisers, BS and specialize in that?

Any ideas and explanations would be welcomed.

Eleana Tomelac
Eclats de verre
Posted - 2007.03.14 13:43:00 - [2]

It is your choice there, you may like big ships or not (I don't like big ships, I trained AF and will be training interceptors then HAC).

A frigate is always useful in PvP, a gang need tacklers, may they be cheap T1 tacklers, they are still scrambling and webbing the targets. It's an important task, there's no victory when the ennemy can flee.

If you go straight to BS, you'll loose tons of isk because you won't have enough support skills to tank correctly or do enough damage with it. It really takes loads of skills to be efficient in BS.

I think you should head to elite frigates, it's much fun, it's useful in PvP, it's dangerous flying around the big ships and that's the cool part. Don't focus only on assault frigates, it can be a good tackler because they are quite sturdy, but it lacks speed to catch ennemies before they flee, look what you need to use an interceptor too, choose the type of frigate you prefer and go for it, the choice is something really lightning fast, the interceptors, or a assault frigate (they tend to be quite slow on afterburners of mwd because of the weight) that can take hits and continue its task.

Posted - 2007.03.14 15:16:00 - [3]

It depends on the context you'll be PvPing in. If you're going to be a damage dealer in a gang with other BS then the Geddon is a much better option. The Vengance isn't all that great in PvP; note that the assault frigates are much slower (heavier) than the normal ones.

Try cruisers for a bit to see whether you like larger ships.

Posted - 2007.03.14 15:28:00 - [4]

Well, I have to say I'm in the club that dislikes use of battleships with few skills. However, it is your choice and I wouldn't wish to force any views on you.

I will give a warning though. Tachyons are notoriously difficult to fit, so try to make sure you have engineering 5, electronics 5, and if possible even a few levels in advanced weapon upgrades. You should also expect to have to fit an RCU or two (even I do and I have max fitting and gunnery skills heh).

To be useful in PvP you need a frigate with a scrambler and an MWD. If you would prefer to do a bit more damage, perhaps work on getting an Omen, and then even a Prophecy or Harbinger. They are decent ships in gangs, and are less expensive to lose. However, the choice would depend on what the PvP you are looking at is. Frigates/Cruisers and even Battlecruisers are perfect for small gangs. However frigates or battleships for the epic, lagtastic fleets.

Above all you need to find a ship class that you actually like to fly. Don't base your training on what you think others may want you to fly. If you want to fly the battleship, go for it and just be careful with it. It's a pretty expensive loss. If you want to fly smaller things, just fly them and have fun. Like I said, useful in PvP starts with a frigate with a scrambler.

Simon Jax
Posted - 2007.03.14 15:52:00 - [5]

I highly recommend flying Frigates and Cruisers when you're just getting into PvP. Especially if you're going out to deep space to do so. Until you're more comfortable flying in various sized groups for PvP you would likely be losing a few ships. Keeping the cost low and the fitting easy is something I've found to make the learning process all that much easier!

Keep in mind that being useful PvP means filling a role. The Punisher may only have 2 mid slots but it's a damn tough Frig and can certainly be useful in a small or large fleet.

But you just gotta expect to lose ships. Frigates and Cruisers are pretty cheap to build, but moreover they can be insured for near the full amount. That's simply not the case for Assault Frigates. More importantly they are also cheap to fit. Even though insurance can be pretty good on a Battleship, you're still out tens of millions when you factor in the full fit and insurance cost. Compare that to a T1 Cruiser that, after the insurance payout, cost you a grand total of 1 mil in fitting and deficit.

A BS is not required, nor necessary, to be useful/successful in PvP. We took out an Armageddon the other night that was fully T2 fit with a BC, a pair of Cruisers and a pair of Frigs.

Mole Skin
Posted - 2007.03.14 20:24:00 - [6]

Cygnus, I had to answer the same question for my Char a couple of weeks ago. I think this is finally a question of your personal style and attitude. I finally found out that I prefer to fly small, fast and angry ships instead of fat and slow monsters. There are some points you should keep in mind, however:

- A battleship starts with something like 60 million ISK - an AF is available for 12 million ISK. Both naked, for sure. Prices are just rough estimates.
- You won't finish any Level 4 mission in an AF - you need perhaps a battleship for that. So if you want to do mission running, you will sooner or later fly a BS anyway.
- All the small and medium gunnery skills are prerequisites for the large specialisation skills. If you ever want to fire a large T2 weapon, you have to learn the small t2 first. So spending time in an AF and their weapon specialisation is not wasted time.



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