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Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.02.07 23:10:00 - [871]
 

Originally by: Rawr Cristina

Who needs graphics anyway? I mean, they're only there for immersion purposes after all and have no effect whatsoever on gameplay. IMO waste of dev resources and they should just concentrate all their efforts on lag and jita Rolling Eyes


Yeah, if you take that argument to its extreme, then you don't really need any real graphics, maybe just colored shapes floating around shooting lines at each other and pages of spreadsheets.

I don't understand how some people can not care one bit about immersion, back story, role-playing, or anything like it, but want good graphics that look like an actual setting. Why do you want the graphics to look like a setting if you want to ignore the setting?

The main reason for improving graphics is to improve immersion and help players to temporarily pretend they're someone else doing stuff somewhere else.

If you don't like immersion, there are always games like Tetris, Chess, card games, etc.

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.02.07 23:18:00 - [872]
 

Originally by: Lord Evangelian

Aww jeez, not again...

I think they do, it has been stated in many a chronicle about various ships having crews. The only ships with exception to this are some of the smaller frigates, and defiantly in T2 frigates and some T2 cruisers. Not being funny but another sign f a crew is seen from the many windows seen on the ships. If you think of it in a similar light to the outlaw star, where melphina controls the ship, but gene and the others man the consoles...

Titans for one have colonies on board, known as "The great citys that dwell within the metal behemoths of thesky..."


I didn't say they don't have crews--I said they don't have bridges. Ships definately do have crews.

There is no need for a bridge when a capsuleer commands this ship from his capsule. Crews are still needed for maintenance, loading weapons, etc. There are no command crew that sit around the captain on a bridge listening to him issuing orders like in Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, etc and thus, there is no bridge.

Adonis 4174
Posted - 2008.02.08 11:01:00 - [873]
 

Do not pyramid quote - Mitnal
Quote:


Can you give an example of what you mean?

PvP is a game. It has a winner and a looser. If you win your happy. You react happy. If you loose your unhappy. You react unhappy. This is a normal reaction and not immersion. If you win at ping pong and get happy this is not immersion.


That analogy falls down when you look at how angry people often get at losing combat in Eve compared to losing at ping pong. The extra intensity comes from the immersion.

Tunak
Posted - 2008.02.08 13:24:00 - [874]
 

Do not pyramid quote - Mitnal
Quote:


That analogy falls down when you look at how angry people often get at losing combat in Eve compared to losing at ping pong. The extra intensity comes from the immersion.


Can you give an example of what you mean?

Kurt Laundry
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.02.08 15:51:00 - [875]
 

Originally by: Face Changelette
Originally by: SiJira
I hope so. And spying on corporation room and things of the sort. Like you can break into their meeting room and find out all the records of their assets and stuff.

Hmm no. People like RA who find loopholes and exploits and abuse the hell out of them would find a huge success rate for doing this and go to town.


Thats nothing a perma-ban wont fix!YARRRR!!

Kurt Laundry
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.02.08 17:00:00 - [876]
 

Originally by: B1FF
No need for a long post. I'm not crying like a little girl.

Your answers are indicative of the failure that is ambulation. Not a single pro-ambulation person has counted a single one of my points. So far the only arguments raised have been the following.

1. Shut up.
2. I want it.
3. It won't effect you. (This is hilarious because it's one of my points against it)
4. OMG I get to dance and play dress up! PONIEZ!

It's window dressing. There are things the time could be better spent on. Time and resources are being spent on ambulation. That time and resources could be spent on other things.


ok

I want to leave my ship.
Thats the functionality I want that this expansion brings.
It does not make sense that I spend my entire life inside a ship,

where is the bathroom?

How do I reproduce?

In short, I want more Role Playing!

Kurt Laundry
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.02.08 17:13:00 - [877]
 

Originally by: B1FF
Originally by: WulfWestphal
while the first point would add a nice RP aspect game to the game, your second reply fails. where in eve can i sit at a bar right now? sure you can do it with emotes, but again: with ambulation it would be more immersive and many players like immersion. those who dont dont have to use it.

you are out of arguments beside the typical claiming to speak for other ominous players, while stubbornly expressing your own opinions as arguments.


What does sitting at a bar get you that you don't have right now?


Another different form of entertainment that I pay for.

Kurt Laundry
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.02.08 17:24:00 - [878]
 

Originally by: B1FF
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
We are going to do Ambulation because we feel a lot of people will find it enjoyable.

If you are opposed to this type of fun, then you will not have to enjoy it. We think enough people will find it enjoyable that it warrants an investment of our time and effort. If you disagree that it doesn´t..well that´s up to you be we are taking the ´risk´ of it.

We won´t drag people kicking and screaming into Ambulation, you can just stay in your space ship and still enjoy EVE in your own way, we just want to explore other directions as well knowing full well it won´t cater to everyone who plays now, but it might convince others to start playing and we want to welcome them too.


Maybe it will bring people but no one will use it. It seems like a lot of effort to simply put a bullet point on the side of the "box".

I'm going from data CCP is released. As it stands Ambulation will allow you to walk around and buy clothing. By walk around I mean literally you have to spend time walking to the store. CCP is on record stating there will be no instant transport and no running. CCP is also on record stating that there will be no fighting.

Why are people going to use it? There's no game. There's no design. You're creating a 3D chat tech demo. One that is more limited and more time consuming than the existing chat system.

It's broken design. If you add anything to ambulation that can't be done outside it then it's basically a huge nerf due to the time spent walking. It's pointless and frankly mean to make people have to spend time walking to the store. If you take out the walking then ambulation looses all meaning and you might as well just create a new window for the features.

The only valid feature mentioned is the map and for that to be viable it has to work outside ambulation since you have to leave the station to go fight. If you can't take the map with you then what's the point of the map?

For ambulation to be useful you will have to create a whole ambulation sub game. One that is completely separate from the existing game. Remember moving existing features to ambulation only will be viewed as a huge nerf by the population due to the added walking/loading time.

People may join for ambulation but they'll just be churn if that's the main reason they joined. Ambulation will be a ghost town shortly after launch. As it stands all it's just a time consuming way for me to shake my boobies at someone.

I'm pro-CCP. I like EvE. I want to see it continue to succeed but you're making a mistake with ambulation. I don't think it will hurt the game in the long run but it's most definitely a waste of time and resources.

If CCP can offer some more info on what ambulation is supposed to be then maybe I can see the appeal but with the info we have now it's broken. It has no hope of being used because there is no reason to use it. Quite simply why would you travel to a system, then spend time loading, then spend time walking to a location to talk to someone? Why no just open a convo window?


By reading your posts, i understand why YOU dont want this. YOU want instant gradification. All YOU care about is combat and the ability to do what you want RIGHT NOW. You pointed out THAT WE MUST WALK (not run) and that there is no instant travel and everything will just take longer.

My response, thank god. I like things to be slow.

B1FF
Posted - 2008.02.08 18:30:00 - [879]
 

Originally by: Kurt Laundry
Originally by: B1FF
No need for a long post. I'm not crying like a little girl.

Your answers are indicative of the failure that is ambulation. Not a single pro-ambulation person has counted a single one of my points. So far the only arguments raised have been the following.

1. Shut up.
2. I want it.
3. It won't effect you. (This is hilarious because it's one of my points against it)
4. OMG I get to dance and play dress up! PONIEZ!

It's window dressing. There are things the time could be better spent on. Time and resources are being spent on ambulation. That time and resources could be spent on other things.


ok

I want to leave my ship.
Thats the functionality I want that this expansion brings.
It does not make sense that I spend my entire life inside a ship,

where is the bathroom?

How do I reproduce?

In short, I want more Role Playing!



You're number 2. "I want" is a toddler's response. It's bread and circuses.

B1FF
Posted - 2008.02.08 18:34:00 - [880]
 

Originally by: Kurt Laundry


By reading your posts, i understand why YOU dont want this. YOU want instant gradification. All YOU care about is combat and the ability to do what you want RIGHT NOW. You pointed out THAT WE MUST WALK (not run) and that there is no instant travel and everything will just take longer.

My response, thank god. I like things to be slow.


You don't know what I want. I have never stated that I want any of these things you attribute to me. Do not speak for me.


Kurt Laundry
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.02.08 18:37:00 - [881]
 

Originally by: B1FF
Originally by: Kurt Laundry


By reading your posts, i understand why YOU dont want this. YOU want instant gradification. All YOU care about is combat and the ability to do what you want RIGHT NOW. You pointed out THAT WE MUST WALK (not run) and that there is no instant travel and everything will just take longer.

My response, thank god. I like things to be slow.




You don't know what I want. I have never stated that I want any of these things you attribute to me. Do not speak for me.




Its called deductive logic.

Your entire point is that we don't need it and thus won't use it, and thus it is a waste.

My response: You're wrong

I do need it, I wont resub without it.
I will use it.
It is not a waste.

I will enter each and every station every time I go there. Some times I'll stay for 5 minutes, other times I'll stay for 5 days...its a sandbox.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.02.08 18:44:00 - [882]
 

Originally by: Kurt Laundry
Originally by: B1FF
Originally by: Kurt Laundry


By reading your posts, i understand why YOU dont want this. YOU want instant gradification. All YOU care about is combat and the ability to do what you want RIGHT NOW. You pointed out THAT WE MUST WALK (not run) and that there is no instant travel and everything will just take longer.

My response, thank god. I like things to be slow.




You don't know what I want. I have never stated that I want any of these things you attribute to me. Do not speak for me.




Its called deductive logic.

Your entire point is that we don't need it and thus won't use it, and thus it is a waste.

My response: You're wrong

I do need it, I wont resub without it.
I will use it.
It is not a waste.

I will enter each and every station every time I go there. Some times I'll stay for 5 minutes, other times I'll stay for 5 days...its a sandbox.


lets keep it civil.

which by the way good job avoiding his flame bait.

Anyways I think the idea that a company doing something only becuase it's playerbase wants them to do it isn't a logical reason in biffs mind.

at least I THINK that is what he is saying.

Biff is saying that if 80% of the player base wants walking and won't play without it, that CCP shouldn't make it just because it's a glorified chat room/ roleplaying tool.

he also thinks imeesion doesn't exisit.

so the arugement will never go anywhere.

just try not to fall into biffs troll, we don't want a flame war.

B1FF
Posted - 2008.02.08 19:47:00 - [883]
 

Originally by: Kurt Laundry

Its called deductive logic.
Your entire point is that we don't need it and thus won't use it, and thus it is a waste.


Rolling EyesDeductive logic or not thats not my position. You have the parts reversed.

CCP Mitnal


C C P
Posted - 2008.02.08 20:49:00 - [884]
 

Please remember to post with respect towards fellow users, wishlists are just as useful as constructive criticism.

Binnys Secretary
Posted - 2008.02.09 00:10:00 - [885]
 

I have followed this thread for several months and read every single post (some of the comments are entertaining.)

I think ambulation is a step in the right direction and a step in order for CCP to stay competetive in the marketplace.
Ambulation will attract more people to the game (Increasing revenue for CCP) allowing them to hire more people for quality assurance, expand the game, fix bugs, and rightfully give themselves a raise as well.

According to the original vision, Eve-Online was meant to
expand into new directions...atmospheric flight, ambulation, economics, manufacturing, planet habitation, and eventually planet resource cultivation and player customizable items. Many features that were on the design table have been part of the player experience for years. As the economies of scale catch up to a growing player base, more features will be implemented.
---------
The following is a brief history lesson on the comment "The dev's need to work on the need for speed (which they are) ..and not anything else."
as follows:

When MMOG's were first designed, lag was popular. People in the mid 90's petitioned developers to make their online experience slower and more frustrating. The developers didn't think this was a good idea, but the people rallied and eventually got what they wanted. The developers were forced to create subroutines in the code that generated lag. Recent times have changed however and now people want less lag and more bandwidth. Some geniuses in the forums ,of course, have demonstrated with rigorous logic and heroic arguments that if CCP were to hire enough programmers to go through the code and simply delete the subroutines then the lag would disappear.

Hiring more people to "fix" something that isn't broken is the most wasteful of resources. The problem (I think) is a combination of how some of the |events| are handled and bandwidth algorithms.
----
Whatever ambulation is, it will be true to the eve-online experience in every facet. There is a large dedicated staff immersed in developing this game on a daily basis (These guys get up in the morning, and go to work developing your game experience) CCP's continuously refined business model (which includes constant beta testing and implementing suggestions from the player base) is working well; and the memory of other destroyed MMOG's and their mistakes is telling of the wrath of the player base.

CCP must continue to implement features before a competitor does, and they must also do this well (and they already have the player base and experience with them.)

Further expansions and features are necessary for eve-online to continue to exist.

Admus
Bath and Body Works
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2008.02.09 02:34:00 - [886]
 

Edited by: Admus on 09/02/2008 23:12:16
My Wishlist:

Fully Complete Station Interiors

As this is an expansion for immersionauts, what I'm hoping ambulation will include is indeed full immersion - the ability to walk right from your pod, out of your ship, to anywhere you might need to go in the station. Of course, being able to skip or speed up these processes should be possible, as I believe has been stated already. I'd also love to see full, or at least some part of ship interiors accessible one day. Crew interaction would also be neat. And I think everyone wants to go say a few words to Scotty the docking manager.

If distances are too big for escalators, lifts, or moving walkways, maybe some sort of taxi vehicle could be used - flag one down, give the driver your destination and you can ride to the location of your choice, for a few ISK. I think I can see a new "profession" in the making. Maybe it would be best left free and automated, though. It would be cool if it was fully integrated - you don't just get in the taxi, get a loading screen and appear at the end - you fly the way there, looking out the window on the way.

Non-"sharded" Locations

While it's likely too difficult, I think it would be neat and in the spirit of eve if the station itself was complete - no 'sharded' corp offices, for example, where everyone walks into the same door labelled "Office Wing" and appears magically in their own separate office. It would be neat if you could go up to the door of any corp's office, even if denied entry, and see that it is actually there. Maybe set a turd-in-a-bag on fire.

Also, while the comings and goings of most pilots is very rapid, I'd love to be able to visit my friends' ship and see it docked - as shown in the video with the zealot and the two folks there. To make this work it would probably have to be restricted to those that have docked up and left their pods - due to the aforementioned comings and goings of those sitting in their pods while docked.

Views of Station Exterior

Well, it's a wish anyways Smile. If not live, at least it would be lovely to see a simulated starscape, or a vista of the planet below.

Active Surroundings

My main thought here was being able to see, perhaps from your own docking platform, a ship moving through the docking bay on its way out, or to its own jetty. To look up and see the mile-long Apocalypse slowly glide through, looming over everything, casting shadows, etc. There would be some real awe factor there. But inside the station your surroundings could still be engaging - televisions or holograms with news reports, messenger drones sipping through the hallways with memos (like mouse droids in the death star), advertisements for local corporations, etc. Things seem to be heading in this general direction though, which is good!


That's all I have for now. I know some of this is way too much, or already in the works. It is a rambling mess too. I will come back and add things as ideas come to me.

I know some people are opposed to this expansion as a waste of company resources better spent on other things. But I can say for myself that this is what I have always wanted from when I started playing EVE, and it is by far what I'm most excited about in the future.

Cheers!

Flamewave
Crimson Moon Society
Posted - 2008.02.09 03:14:00 - [887]
 

Originally by: Admus

Also, while the comings and goings of most pilots is very rapid, I'd love to be able to visit my friends' ship and see it docked - as shown in the video with the zealot and the two folks there.


Do want.


Originally by: Admus
Views of Station Exterior

Well, it's a wish anyways Smile. If not live, at least it would be lovely to see a simulated starscape, or a vista of the planet below.


Also this. I imagine if it were like the way Valve does Source TV or whatever it is it wouldn't contribute much to lag. And if it had load detection it could maybe "shutter" the windows or something if the node is beyond a certain amount of CPU use (IE it'd cut back on CPU use on the node that the station is on).

Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.02.09 03:24:00 - [888]
 

About ambulation with player owned stations.

How is this going to work with things will we have to build and install eveything ourselves or is there going to be a certian amount that stay?

Are the going to be able to been blown up from outside the station?


Feng Schui
Minmatar
Cruor Evertum Dominicus
Posted - 2008.02.10 16:24:00 - [889]
 

The very first thing I thought to myself when I logged onto Eve for the very first time:

"How the hell do I get out of the ship?"


Status update? Its getting cramped in here Sad

Antaria
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.02.10 18:21:00 - [890]
 

Originally by: Feng Schui
The very first thing I thought to myself when I logged onto Eve for the very first time:

"How the hell do I get out of the ship?"


Status update? Its getting cramped in here Sad


Haha...

Your comment is funny because I have also wondered this when I started playing. Also, when I try to bring my friends to play they are also like: "omg, you can't get out of the ship?"...

I love EVE and can not wait for this new and immersive side of my favorite game.

Stormaar
Caldari
Posted - 2008.02.10 18:21:00 - [891]
 

crap ( dont waste dev resources. full body avatars - blah-blah-blah.

Selene Bork
Caldari
Celtic industries
Posted - 2008.02.10 19:07:00 - [892]
 

I`ll be happy if I can just have pigtails. Just something else to do whilst docked, whilst I sort out corp stuff.

November Terraa
Posted - 2008.02.10 20:02:00 - [893]
 

Edited by: November Terraa on 10/02/2008 20:06:01
As much as I enjoy Eve, with all there is to do. I can honestly say that I do also look forward to ambulation. Since it will not only bring a more face to face socialization as it where, but the ability to create and work on different outfits, and even plastic surgery (this would include appearances) if it is true to what was said during the fanfest. Not to mention it would also be quite fun to just sit at a table and watch the ships dock and un-dock in real time, lol.

Kimochi Rendar
Veto.
Posted - 2008.02.11 19:08:00 - [894]
 

For me, this is the one thing Eve currently lacks that would make it a complete MMORPG experience and I can't wait to see some more development on it. The ability to interact 'face-to-face' with my fellow capsuleers and be able to actually roleplay in a more visual sense is exactly what I want Eve to have.

"Views of Station Exterior

Well, it's a wish anyways . If not live, at least it would be lovely to see a simulated starscape, or a vista of the planet below."


If SWG can do it with it's multi-person ships, there's absolutely no reason why Eve can't do similar with stations!

Oceanis Sombra
Posted - 2008.02.12 16:08:00 - [895]
 

Hi. I am new in Eve On Line and I have to say that it is a great game. I'am mostly an RP player and I love the immersion that Eve can bring you. Probably because Eve is a world driving by players where they can realy impact on it. So RP is not just "theater" but real actions of your caracter that will impact the Eve On Line univers.
Bringing the capacity of having 3D avatar into the game will give an other dimension to the game, let's say an human dimension. For the moment we are like extention of our ship, we are just like our ship. With Ambulation we may be as well "person" in the game.
After a long trip into low sec space, I can imagine to realy go to a station and see other people. The feeling of the travel will be there.

I do not know what Ambulation project does include. (only station or just a first phase?) but i hope that one day we will be able to see our ship inside.

By the way. When is that extension plan to be release? I have see 2008. Meaning end of 2008?



Talisorn
Amarr
Posted - 2008.02.13 02:28:00 - [896]
 

Edited by: Talisorn on 13/02/2008 02:28:24
Originally by: Oceanis Sombra
By the way. When is that extension plan to be release? I have see 2008. Meaning end of 2008?

Who knows. I'm not all that keen for them to rush it to be honest. However long it takes, I guess.

Hmmm .... it's been quiet here. Perhaps TOO quiet.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2008.02.13 04:49:00 - [897]
 

Will you be able to be fat, gassy, walk funny? All interesting options but do keep Murphy in mind 'cause if you can they will!

I'd like to see the achura being no shorter than 2 meters at all times, preferably 240cm on average, that or 140 tops, let the freaks be freaks!

Kheir
Posted - 2008.02.15 06:12:00 - [898]
 

I think this is a good idea, especially if they do something with it. Like add features in future updates. One of which I think the should add is you being able to go inside your ship, walk around. Have other characters that can come on board. Customization would also be a sweet future update.

Devanesc
The Fated
Odyssey.
Posted - 2008.02.15 07:45:00 - [899]
 

Although full ambulation will help with game immersion i personally am only looking forward to one aspect. Poker. If i can win isk, in game.... ooh how perfect would that be? Nothing like some good honest card playing to solve alliance stalemates, arguments and bank problems.

Dev

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.02.15 08:05:00 - [900]
 

Originally by: Devanesc
Although full ambulation will help with game immersion i personally am only looking forward to one aspect. Poker. If i can win isk, in game.... ooh how perfect would that be? Nothing like some good honest card playing to solve alliance stalemates, arguments and bank problems.

Dev


While I think it will be great to have poker, think outside the box man, this is eve, an honest game of cards? HAHAHA you wish not in a 0.0 system. just think of all the dirty features they could add to the game, yarr!


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