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blankseplocked Is it a free-for-all?
 
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Etara Silverblade
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.03.13 16:18:00 - [1]
 

I've only been playing for a few days now and love this place so far. I'm wondering if it's really a free-for-all and there's no game etiquette that dictates behavior in space, or chat, or trade, or anything like that.

I was jetcan mining with a friend, I was mining and he was carrying the goods to the hanger. At first I would just place the cargo in there when I was full and he'd pick it up but some guy in a battleship comes up and takes it all. Now, I wasn't too mad, cause it wasn't secure and he did have a bigger/more powerful ship and all I had at the time was 2 mining lasers and my friend was on the way to the hanger.

After a little while we switched and at this point we kept only 2 ores in the jetcan to keep it alive and I'd dump my stash in as he was already in range. Some punk comes along and takes the 2 ores. That ****ed me off more then anything cause it's just 2 ores, wtf? Not that I couldn't just dumb another one but why even bother?

And what about kills? Any etiquette about those? If I warp to a belt and there's a dead rat with some cargo there and no ships, can I just take the stuff? There's no reason I couldn't but is it right? What about if the person is still around and I swing in a and loot the craft before he gets a chance?

Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.03.13 16:26:00 - [2]
 

EVE is indeed unique in that it has virtually no rules (short of not committing blatant cheats) and no ettiquette imposed by the community as a whole. Anything you can get away with is good. This includes scamming, lying, and trickery. High security offers some protection mechanisms to keep the people in it from being completely fedto the wolves, but even there there are gaping holes that could be used by those ruthless enough to pursue them. About the only moral rule that is actively enforced on is tricking newbies in their starting zone into PvP combat, due to this scaring the person out of the game more often than not. Outside of the starting zone (read, in the major trade hubs) it's a free for all.

That is not to say there aren't ethics in the game. Most of those will however come from the player corporations and only apply to those people directly dealing with them. And again, these ethics can very well be completely unfair (read up on Privateer Alliance or the NBSI rule of engagement for example). This game is what you make of it, and your support will come from those who choose to back you. How that comes to be is largely up to you.

Esurnir
Amarr
Bears Inc
FREGE Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.13 16:28:00 - [3]
 

Thou shall not exploit a bug.
Thou shall not grief noob in their home system. (making a can with "free loot" is an offence).

That's approximatively all the rules in this game.

Tutsunucann
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.03.13 16:52:00 - [4]
 

The above posters are right. Most anything goes, and the amount of honor or fair play you bring to the EVE universe is your choice. Short of abusing game mechanics, it is indeed a free-for-all; do a forum search sometime for 'corp thief'.

HOWEVER - I personally have found that approaching the game with moral integrity has its own rewards. The citizens of EVE are rightfully cautious of strangers, but if you're deserving of trust you'll end up with good friends to fly with, and that's worth more than all the isk and l3wt you could steal.

As for the people stealing 2 ore from your cans, they were hoping you'd lose your temper and fire at them. Once you did so, they could shoot back without fearing CONCORD's punishment. They wanted a fight they could win (PvP ship versus Mining-equipped ship), the kill mail to show off or boost their kill ratios on a kill board, or maybe even your frozen cloned corpse as a memento. Shocked

Tunajuice
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
Posted - 2007.03.13 17:10:00 - [5]
 

Find a quiet .5 or .6 system and you can mine all day, and won't have to deal with those kind of tards

Cabadrin
Caldari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Posted - 2007.03.13 17:16:00 - [6]
 

It's a complete free-for-all, but there are informal rules to the game. I'll try to explain a few of them:

Empire:
-If your ore is unguarded, it's fair game.
-Don't block undock points outside of stations by going idle.
-Don't grief noobs who are a few days old, unless they're alts - then grief away.
-Always assume the other person is out to get you.

0.0:
-Kill or be killed.
-Keep your friends close, and your BPOs closer.
-There's no shame in running away from fights you'll lose, but DO NOT LOG OFF FROM COMBAT.

You can violate these rules but expect to be flamed for it.

Buck Skinjob
Posted - 2007.03.13 17:44:00 - [7]
 

Just curious what happens if you log off during combat?

Cara Rhondoon
Posted - 2007.03.13 17:51:00 - [8]
 

I believe you warp away, so some people dont like it and view it as a cheap escape method.

people use it when they are about to die in their ship....

Micia
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2007.03.13 18:02:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Buck Skinjob
Just curious what happens if you log off during combat?


If you log off in combat, your Agression Timer is still running. ugh

You'll warp off about a million KM, and your ship remains there 'til this counter has run its 15 minute course. This is a fairly wide window for the enemy to launch probes and track down your unpiloted ship (and subsequent pod).

If you log without having the agression timer activated, you still warp off... but vanish in 60 seconds.

It's a lame tactic. ugh

Eiidmac
Caldari
Brotherhood of the Shadows
Posted - 2007.03.14 19:26:00 - [10]
 

1. Don't use a known exploit, thats cheating.
2. Might makes right.

That pretty much sums up the game. If you aren't happy with a player, do something about it.

Simon Jax
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.03.14 20:27:00 - [11]
 

wtf? – You will be asking this question a lot. The answer is typically, “because.”

… but why even bother? – To goad you into attacking him/her. You can freely shoot at ore-thieves, though nine out of ten times it’s rather inadvisable.

And what about kills? Any etiquette about those? … can I just take the stuff? … is it right? … loot the craft before he gets a chance? – No etiquette, per se, just consequences. If you take loot from someone else’s kill, you are criminally flagged just like the guy who stole ore from your can was. So you can indeed swoop in and take the stuff from his kills, whether or not he’s in the area. But you’ll be flagged, and show up as red and flashing in his overview (likely). So it’s totally at your own risk. Salvaging is a bit different, as you can salvage someone else’s wrecks (if they are empty) without getting flagged.

Easy Target
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe.
Posted - 2007.03.14 21:25:00 - [12]
 

Eve isnt free for all, it is player run.


Just because there are no rules laid down for us, doesnt mean that there are no rules.

If you own space as a corporation/alliance in 0.0 you set the rules, if you have the force to enforce those rules, all is good.

during "peaceful times" in eve, alliance space, in deep 0.0 as long as you are freindly to that alliance is safer than empire.

As was said, might is right, if you are on the side of that might in the area of space you live in then eve is anything but free for all.


A lot is built on reputation in eve, everything you do will effect someone, and it will be noticed by that someone, good or bad, you may get answers resulting from those actions in the future. Being an "arse" can swing round and bite you, very fast.

Letouk Mernel
Caldari
Posted - 2007.03.14 21:34:00 - [13]
 

Basically, like it's been said, people are free to follow the rules hard-coded into the game. Sometimes CCP declares certain things to be exploits, in which case don't do that, but most of the time if the game lets you do it, then a lot of people WILL do it.

In the case of people in big ships taking ore from your can, even 2 ore, they did that to goad you into shooting them, at which point they would get an easy kill and maybe loot some expensive mining items off your ships. When someone takes from your container, they get flagged, and you can shoot them if you want. Concord won't intervene like it normally does. But if you shoot them, they're then free to "defend themselves" and shoot you back.

Other things that can happen to you in this game:

- Your mission location can be probed out and you can be attacked during the mission, if you're in 0.4 or below.

- You can be suicide-attacked in high sec. space, basically the attacker loses his ship to the police, but they usually blow you up too, and then an un-associated ALT character in an industrial comes by and picks up the loot.

- If you're in a player corporation, and you try to "mediate" peaceful terms or you sound like you're too friendly to strangers, you will get a war declaration, because your corp looks like an easy target.

- Things that are being set up for sale via the Contract system could be scams, designed to trick you into giving your ships away for free or paying a lot for a basic ship.

- People you might recruit into your corporation could be spies, or worse, corp. thieves, and will just empty all the hangars they have access to as soon as you give them access. Or, a few months after they've gained your trust.

- People you gang up with could warp you off into a trap (usually a player-owned base they own that is set to aggressive).

Rothsul Attur
Chicken Coup Raiders
Posted - 2007.03.15 00:00:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Etara Silverblade
...If I warp to a belt and there's a dead rat with some cargo there and no ships, can I just take the stuff? There's no reason I couldn't but is it right? What about if the person is still around and I swing in a and loot the craft before he gets a chance?


This is no different from someone stealing from your ore can. Just so that you know...

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2007.03.15 00:45:00 - [15]
 

In 0.0 people tend to have a little more etiquette as being an ass will get you killed.

Fenrec Deac
Malkalen Enterprises
Posted - 2007.03.15 07:15:00 - [16]
 

Normaly, basic social skills would provide a ( more or less ) fair enviroment.
Sadly a part of the playerbase does lack even the most basic ones. Like the guy in
your example was not interested in stealing your ore, but just in disturbing your gameplay.
Concerning the loot question : Some people leave wrecks and/or Jetcans behind on purpose to make others
open and loot them. When done so they have the right to shoot you down. Its a trap.

Vasiliyan
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.03.15 09:45:00 - [17]
 

There are very few rules that will be enforced on you, but courtesy and friendliness will often be reciprocated in secure space. Outside of that it's a good idea to be more cautious, as there are lots of people out to kill you, but that's why we have corps and alliances. It is an excellent idea to make friends there by asking about space etiquette and following it.

General 0.0 rules:
- chain spawns
- clean up your wrecks lest they be used to exploit the aggro bug
- keep comms channels clear when they are being used for combat ops
- if you have a problem with someone who is blue to you (positive standings), mail their CEO.

halic
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.03.15 11:09:00 - [18]
 

i see it as the do's and dont of the game, and the players are good bad and opportunists pretty much sums it up in my view
lol like Cabadrin said -There's no shame in running away from fights you'll lose, but DO NOT LOG OFF

id rather run away or blow up with dignity :)

Palomar
Posted - 2007.03.15 12:04:00 - [19]
 

So even a warp bubble won't prevent a log-off warp?

Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.03.15 14:22:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Palomar
So even a warp bubble won't prevent a log-off warp?


Give this man a cigar for pinpointing the main reason people hate logoffskis!

The fact that you can use it to evade bubble camps is the main cause of concern people have with this tactic. Generally the tactic is useless for escaping a fight going bad (due to the aggression timer), and there are enough ways to escape a tackle camp (a nanoship will typically align before the first tackler gets a lock) to make logoffski a big concern in those situations.

Simon Jax
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.03.15 14:38:00 - [21]
 

Truly the “logoffski” thing is a good example of a non-exploit that is considered “bad etiquette” in the game. People who use it to avoid camps are not well regarded by friend and foe alike usually. It’s a non-exploit because there are times where jumping into a camp will cause a CTD or somesuch and the only thing worse than having someone escape a fight using a cheap tactic is to never have a chance to fight at all.

A couple other things you may come across while traveling are people/cans stating “NBSI Space” especially out in 0.0. Not Blue Shoot It is a fairly standard policy in most deep space regions. It simply means that being neutral means being shot at. You can only travel freely if you (or your corp) are on good terms with the locals. It’s important to note that the people shooting at you just because you’re neutral aren’t (generally) doing so to ruin your day. It is a grim necessity in space you are protecting due to the prevalence of alt-character spies and whatnot.

A not-as-often-seen cousin to NBSI policies is the “NRDS” policy which stands for Not Red Don’t Shoot. Meaning being neutral is okay, but having bad standings will still get you shot at and likely hunted. It’s not common in my experience, at least not in 0.0, but some corps/alliances will adopt that policy when they first come into a new area in order to make friends and gain contacts.


 

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