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Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.05 11:27:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
Nice map - I would suggest though that Ushrakhan influence doesn't extend into the domain and devoid regions :)




I understand where you are coming from Scagga - tho to be fair both they and Imperial Order do have significant influence in the low-sec areas bordering their 0.0 holding in the same way that CVA extends its influence and upholds Amarrian justice in the Kheram/Gemodi/Yong/Mamet/Misaba areas...


Trivas
Caldari
Nexus Aerospace Corporation
Posted - 2007.03.05 11:56:00 - [122]
 

Very nice map.

Sticky plz Very Happy

Paladin Vent
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.03.05 12:03:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: Paladin Vent on 05/03/2007 12:04:08
Originally by: Xeliya
Edited by: Xeliya on 05/03/2007 07:10:27
Originally by: Paladin Vent
Originally by: Xeliya
Can you put Fallen Souls for North Paragon (GQ2 Area)

Can not. I is automaticaly generated. Put some more POS, or conquer an outpost. :)

Look on your map again . . . GQ2 has an Outpost system that belong to us and has for about a month now and systems around us belong to us.


Ok, let's look at map. You have 1 outpost and 2 POS aside from your outpost in Paragon (bottom-center of map).
But BoB have outpost and 2 POS very close to your outpost. And additionally BoB have 3 outposts and 2 POS in the same location (but not so close), which are increasing BoB's total influence in the location.
So, your influence is barely not enogh to win 1 vs 4 outposts.
If you want to appear on the map, you must claim several systems near your outpost with the POS (about 3-4). Or you may try kill the BoB and get their closest influencing outpost. Shocked

mamolian
Gallente
Cruoris Seraphim
Exalted.
Posted - 2007.03.05 12:10:00 - [124]
 

Paladin Vent, this I like :)

Good job mate.

Johnny ReeRee
Caldari
The ReeRee Brigade
Posted - 2007.03.05 12:14:00 - [125]
 

An outstanding effort -- very well done.

This is the map that matters. Accurate and automatic, no bizarre meta-gaming underpinnings as with the goonie map.

Good job. Sticky this one.

Thesia Syn
Gallente
Multiverse Corporation
Cosmic Anomalies
Posted - 2007.03.05 12:22:00 - [126]
 

Edited by: Thesia Syn on 05/03/2007 12:18:24
Very nice work.

edit: sticky plz

Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
Posted - 2007.03.05 12:22:00 - [127]
 

i like. less subject to bias

Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
Posted - 2007.03.05 12:23:00 - [128]
 

Get rid of the border lines as they make the map look like someone attacked it with MS paint.

Apart from that it's very good.


One minor thing, maybe you could add a red glow over systems with high numbers of ships destroyed in 0.0 in a 24 hour period to show recent large conflicts?

Or better yet a total for ships destroyed that week in systems to show where real long term battles are being fought (put in a threshold of number of kills that has to be passed in order for it to show on the map?).
For getting such totals just have it store total ships destroyed in the last 24 hours for the last 7 days.

Red Gabba
Minmatar
R E D E M P T I O N
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.05 12:40:00 - [129]
 

This is one top notch map, while i understand there may be a few bugs (like Pure having influence over jovian space) Its a accurate description of eve atm.

Its about time a few maps for Eve were produced as most of them show to much info and are hard to read.

Paladin Vent
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.03.05 12:49:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Wild Rho
One minor thing, maybe you could add a red glow over systems with high numbers of ships destroyed in 0.0 in a 24 hour period to show recent large conflicts?
Or better yet a total for ships destroyed that week in systems to show where real long term battles are being fought (put in a threshold of number of kills that has to be passed in order for it to show on the map?).
For getting such totals just have it store total ships destroyed in the last 24 hours for the last 7 days.

I'll work on border lines and fonts. But before I start, I want to see any design ideas on how I should draw them.

About wars: I've already stated my position in the first post. Source code is under BSD. Fill free to download and make any changes you want.

FireFoxx80
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.03.05 13:10:00 - [131]
 

Just read the source, very tidy.

Any chance you'll publish how you extracted the data from Eve?

budvarian
Minmatar
Exiled.
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2007.03.05 13:13:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: budvarian on 06/03/2007 13:27:01
Very HappyI have to say that I think this mapping idea is very informative and supplies a nice cross reference to the other maps that are produced for different purposes. It is possible to triangulate (compare) this map with the others and get a feel for the accuracy of their more explicit boundaries.

Good work I like it.

CheersCool

budvarian
Minmatar
Exiled.
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2007.03.05 13:16:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: budvarian on 06/03/2007 13:27:20
apols double post

Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
Posted - 2007.03.05 13:19:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Paladin Vent

I'll work on border lines and fonts. But before I start, I want to see any design ideas on how I should draw them.




Honestly I'd leave the border lines out completely as they don't go well with the glow effect you've used (it would look better with just the glow anyway).

Thanks for making the source code avaiable as well, I can't wait to get home and have a read through it Very Happy

Patch86
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.05 13:42:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Xeliya

Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Xeliya
Can you put Fallen Souls for North Paragon (GQ2 Area)

Otherwise nice map ugh


I don't think it works like that, mate. If you want that part of the map, you've got to have more sovereignty than anyone else. If you don't got it, the map maker isn't going to change it Razz

Should check facts before smacking . . .


I'm not smacking, its true. If its mathematically generated based on POS numbers, and they're being swamped by their neighbours with more structures, then the only way to get them on the map would be to have more POS's.

And I find it useful to see who has the POS power on this map, as opposed to "political" power. We already have 2 political maps for that reference. If they have few enough starbases, comparatively, to be swamped by neighboring powers, then its an interesting fact to know.

Its a shame that its likely to bruise egos, but thats not a good reason to rehash the entire structure, by changing values or similar.

Xeliya
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.05 13:59:00 - [136]
 

Edited by: Xeliya on 05/03/2007 13:58:42
Originally by: Paladin Vent
Edited by: Paladin Vent on 05/03/2007 12:04:08
Originally by: Xeliya
Edited by: Xeliya on 05/03/2007 07:10:27
Originally by: Paladin Vent
Originally by: Xeliya
Can you put Fallen Souls for North Paragon (GQ2 Area)

Can not. I is automaticaly generated. Put some more POS, or conquer an outpost. :)

Look on your map again . . . GQ2 has an Outpost system that belong to us and has for about a month now and systems around us belong to us.


Ok, let's look at map. You have 1 outpost and 2 POS aside from your outpost in Paragon (bottom-center of map).
But BoB have outpost and 2 POS very close to your outpost. And additionally BoB have 3 outposts and 2 POS in the same location (but not so close), which are increasing BoB's total influence in the location.
So, your influence is barely not enogh to win 1 vs 4 outposts.
If you want to appear on the map, you must claim several systems near your outpost with the POS (about 3-4). Or you may try kill the BoB and get their closest influencing outpost. Shocked



The BoB outposts are 7 jumps H8 and then 20+ MP5/LX, that's not close by but what ever. Why should we have to POS spam systems around us with POS's that do nothing to show it's our land? The other systems in Paragon may look close on the 2D map but they are not and you can check this with you 3D map and/or auto pilot.

Metacannibal
Amarr
Viper-Squad
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.03.05 14:07:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Xeliya
.... to show it's our land?



its bobspace, you are renting it, in that aspect, this map very well displays the real situation. renting space does not equal owning it.

ZoXoR
Minmatar
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.03.05 14:12:00 - [138]
 

thats the way ingame star-map should look like

Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.03.05 14:40:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Xeliya
The BoB outposts are 7 jumps H8 and then 20+ MP5/LX, that's not close by but what ever. Why should we have to POS spam systems around us with POS's that do nothing to show it's our land? The other systems in Paragon may look close on the 2D map but they are not and you can check this with you 3D map and/or auto pilot.


I think you're on to something there.

Quite possibly the map program actually calculated a bubble of influence for you - but since it's a 3D map pressed flat into a 2D image, it might be that your bubble of influence exists at the "bottom" where it simply isn't visible from the top...

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.03.05 15:16:00 - [140]
 

Best map EVER!!!! To where I send a cake as thanking gift?

Xeliya
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.05 15:22:00 - [141]
 

Edited by: Xeliya on 05/03/2007 15:25:30
Edited by: Xeliya on 05/03/2007 15:23:09
Originally by: Metacannibal
Originally by: Xeliya
.... to show it's our land?



its bobspace, you are renting it, in that aspect, this map very well displays the real situation. renting space does not equal owning it.

Renting = You don't get sov there buddy. You are not in our alliance nor bobs so how do you know what our relationship with bob is? If we wanted to rent and farm isk we wouldn't be on the pipe.

Originally by: Ishina Fel
Originally by: Xeliya
The BoB outposts are 7 jumps H8 and then 20+ MP5/LX, that's not close by but what ever. Why should we have to POS spam systems around us with POS's that do nothing to show it's our land? The other systems in Paragon may look close on the 2D map but they are not and you can check this with you 3D map and/or auto pilot.


I think you're on to something there.

Quite possibly the map program actually calculated a bubble of influence for you - but since it's a 3D map pressed flat into a 2D image, it might be that your bubble of influence exists at the "bottom" where it simply isn't visible from the top...

Hmm interesting point as I can very much see that. 2D map 3PPT looks like it's right beside us but over 15 jumps away . . .

charmed knight
Amarr
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.03.05 15:23:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Paladin Vent
The result of my work you can se below:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/UNL/influence.png
niceRolling Eyes

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.03.05 15:26:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 05/03/2007 15:25:21
Now i remember. This remembered me of Civilization IV influence map.


With some tweaking in the algorithm and inclusion of more parameters It coudl become the ultimate map.

A suggestion. You could add a way to introduce number of player in the equation. Because an alliance that fields 1000 members in a space with 2 outpost... have far more influence than anotehr alliance that fields 100 players on a space with teh same 2 outposts.

Ashareth
Caldari
Disturbed Hoggs
Posted - 2007.03.05 15:38:00 - [144]
 

A reallyj really great job.
I do like thee "automated" generation and the fact you choose influence with fixed valor as a start.

Keep working on it please.:)

Oh, and, for me, there is absolutly nothing wrong with your design, nice looking, efficient and really readable.
But i know most people don't have the same taste than me.:D

It's more accurate than most of the "political" maps cause all minor alliance/renters that have sovereignity can appear on it.

It gives a better look at things and is a very useful tool to add to the other maps.


The only thing that is missing, from my point of view, are the alliance that claim npc space, even if i understand the technical limitations and the problem in it.

It would be great if you could find a way to display it(like another type of color with lines or something to show that they are alliances claiming the space and having influence even if they are in npc space).

Other than that, great job. :)

arjun
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2007.03.05 15:50:00 - [145]
 

make the distqance calvculation jumpcount based only not measured in lightyears.

Paladin Vent
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.03.05 15:52:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: Paladin Vent on 05/03/2007 16:06:17
Originally by: Xeliya
The BoB outposts are 7 jumps H8 and then 20+ MP5/LX, that's not close by but what ever. Why should we have to POS spam systems around us with POS's that do nothing to show it's our land? The other systems in Paragon may look close on the 2D map but they are not and you can check this with you 3D map and/or auto pilot.

Unfortunately, there are no 3D screens today. Because of that, 3D map must be projected on the 2D plane before it'll be displayed. When I said "close", I mean a short distance on the projected map, not over 3d.

Let's imagine that the program is calculating influence over 3D. You have your domination bubble on the "bottom", but BoB have it on the "top". As I said before, screens can't display 3D, so we must display it in 2d. How? The solution s to calculate total influence of your alliance and total influence of the BoB over the vertical line that'll be rendered as 1 point on map. As you can see - total influence of the BoB on that vertical line is higher than yours.

BoB are dominating on the 2D map, but that doesn’t man that you are not dominating some space on the 3D.

Originally by: Kagura Nikon
A suggestion. You could add a way to introduce number of player in the equation. Because an alliance that fields 1000 members in a space with 2 outpost... have far more influence than anotehr alliance that fields 100 players on a space with teh same 2 outposts.

Let's look on hypothetical alliance of 1000 players. 400 of them are residing on the empire and were never seen in 0.0. 580 of them are alts or inactive players. And the last 20 is living on the outpost. Is that alliance better than an alliance of 50 active members, living in 0.0?

Member count means nothing. If your alliance have 1000 active members in 2 systems, you'll die in the lags. :)

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.03.05 16:28:00 - [147]
 

well than you can use a number based on average players active in last hour snapshot.


I just find really unrealistic taht 100 players with 8 pos spread ed in a large area will have more inlfuence for example than 1000 players with 8 poses in a ssame huge area. The 100 players will very hardly visit all their territory to have real influence.

Thoric Frosthammer
Gallente
Vanguard Frontiers
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2007.03.05 16:40:00 - [148]
 

The basic problem here, and I'll say it again, is that number of pos's do not necessarily equal influence. I'm not, for example, an Xpact member, but from experience, I can tell you that there's noone seriously questioning their control of their particular constellation. The fact that a fairly numerous alliance in unchallenged control of over a dozen systems doesn't show up on this map at all because they haven't bothered with pos spamming every system makes the map less useful to most people. Someone travelling near B-7 and relying on your map for guidance will be quite surprised to find XPact there.

Any map which leaves off the sov of particular stations and doesn't reflect the feet on the ground situation accurately is not a useful map, no matter how "mathematical" and unbiased it is. I appreciate and agree with the need for a map based on neutral principals but this one isn't there yet.

Influence is not a mathematical concept. You can have 50 poses up all over nearby space, but if you huddle in your home system except to refuel them periodically you don't have true influence. Alternatively, if you own one station system, but you regularly patrol nearby systems, you have great control over those systems. The other maps may be subject to argument and flubdubbery, but then so are national borders in the real world sometimes. India/Pakistan border anyone?

This map is a very interesting initial concept. But it needs to take pos spam a little less seriously, and introduce a few other factors. At the least, it needs to accurately reflect where a station or system has sov that is different from the "dominant influence" or you just confuse travellers.

Diragi
Caldari
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
Posted - 2007.03.05 17:01:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Thoric Frosthammer
The basic problem here, and I'll say it again, is that number of pos's do not necessarily equal influence. I'm not, for example, an Xpact member, but from experience, I can tell you that there's noone seriously questioning their control of their particular constellation.


Perhaps a better way of showing the data is required; something a little more 2-D.

For example; the borders of each alliance stays as-is. The heavier their influence (as determined by POS and outposts) would affect how bright the star systems are displayed.

Thoric Frosthammer
Gallente
Vanguard Frontiers
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2007.03.05 17:28:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Diragi
Originally by: Thoric Frosthammer
The basic problem here, and I'll say it again, is that number of pos's do not necessarily equal influence. I'm not, for example, an Xpact member, but from experience, I can tell you that there's noone seriously questioning their control of their particular constellation.


Perhaps a better way of showing the data is required; something a little more 2-D.

For example; the borders of each alliance stays as-is. The heavier their influence (as determined by POS and outposts) would affect how bright the star systems are displayed.


That might be a good solution yes. The question remains though, how would wxb constellation display. IMO, any map that shows it as anything but in the firm control of XPACT doesnt' reflect reality. Mathematically by this formula however, they don't control their own home system. It doesn't work.

This map reflects a lot of reality, but it isn't capturing the fine details. Until it does, it's not going to replace the others in my bookmarks. Just my .02 isk for all its worth.


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