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blankseplocked Hulks are MASSIVELY underpriced!
 
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.03.02 11:47:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/03/2007 11:31:12
Originally by: Quilan Ziller

What people mean is that Hulk BPO owners are greedy bastards, and they are making money out of nothing - with no risk and no competition. Now, please, do not beat up a dead horse and argue that most poor hardworkiong BPO owners have purchased their prints for billions of iskies. You get no sympathy here. Yes, there are also people who have paid 300 or 400 million for a single unit of Zydrine. So what?


Greedy? No, its called capitalism. In capitalism, you produce an item and sell at the market price. The market decides what the price is. In this case, there is a static supply curve, which intersects the demand curve around 500 million. And so that is where people sell at. There is no one person in eve "choosing" what the hulk price is. If I sold Hulks at 200m (no I don't have a BPO), someone would buy them up and put them back at the market price.

There are only two ways to drop the hulk price. One is to increase supply (i.e. fix invention so it works for Hulks, yes, I mean you CCP), and the other is to decrease demand, i.e. stop buying them!
Originally by: Quilan Ziller

Me (and other anti-BPO people) are arguing from the point of game mechanics. Current game mechanics is such that a Hulk BPO owner is getting an ungodly profit with a relatively small time and skill investment, and with absolutely ZERO risk. There is NO other occupation in game that would provide THAT kind of profit with THAT little effort.


Um, I would call paying 100 billion for a BPO that might be worthless when invention is fixed to allow the invention of Hulks a huge risk.

Most T2 BPOs are selling for obscenely high prices at the moment. Almost any other blueprint or method of earning money in EVE will make your money back faster than a tech 2 BPO. They're not the magic money trees that most people imagine them as. You can make more with a few T1 battleship/battlecruiser BPOs and 10 billion in capital than you can with a 100-billion-ISK hulk BPO.

That, by the way, is why I don't actually own any T2 BPOs at all.



You talk as if that 100Bn is lost forever. But the truth is that one can pay that 100Bn, make huge margins on producing those hulks, then sell the BPO and get your 100Bn back.

Jarjar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.03.02 12:48:00 - [32]
 

If invention gets fixed, and hulks drop in prices to, say, 200 mil, the blueprint won't sell for 100Bn anymore, which is his point.

Karunel
Princeps Corp
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.03.02 13:00:00 - [33]
 

Quote:
This represents the difference between a max'd Exhumer pilot vs. a max'd Covetor pilot mining Omber for a year.


Nice way to calculate Hulk's fair price there! Laughing

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.03.02 13:23:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Jarjar
If invention gets fixed, and hulks drop in prices to, say, 200 mil, the blueprint won't sell for 100Bn anymore, which is his point.

Exactly.

If I bought a Hulk BPO for 100b today, and invention for hulks was added tomorrow, I would almost instantly lose 40-50 billion. It would be as if I just lost a titan, basically. Laughing

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.03.02 13:29:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Jarjar
If invention gets fixed, and hulks drop in prices to, say, 200 mil, the blueprint won't sell for 100Bn anymore, which is his point.

Exactly.

If I bought a Hulk BPO for 100b today, and invention for hulks was added tomorrow, I would almost instantly lose 40-50 billion. It would be as if I just lost a titan, basically. Laughing


I wonder if this explains all the Exhumer BPOs for sale in the Sales folder?

Loyal Servant
Caldari
The Knights Templar
Strategic Operations Brigade
Posted - 2007.03.02 13:47:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Mortania


Your ignorance is showing.

Production and unlocking of T2 BPOs is not zero (see my other thread). People have claimed it takes no effort and costs nothing to capitalize on T2 BPOs, and yet, somehow, when offered FREE T2 BPCs, no one wants them. Something doesn't add up.



WHERE?!?!?!
I search contracts far and wide for them, and *CANNOT* find them, but on *RARE* occasions

I suggest you stop... now...

Tpau
Minmatar
Voice of the Blood Raiders
Posted - 2007.03.02 14:15:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Mortania


Production and unlocking of T2 BPOs is not zero (see my other thread). People have claimed it takes no effort and costs nothing to capitalize on T2 BPOs, and yet, somehow, when offered FREE T2 BPCs, no one wants them. Something doesn't add up.



Please send all Free T2 BPC's to me. ThanksCool

insanebe
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2007.03.02 14:55:00 - [38]
 

15 bill in a year ??? thats crap to be honest lol i wont bother getting one now Very Happy

Live Eye
Posted - 2007.03.02 17:00:00 - [39]
 

You get a compounding 15% and 5% more yeild bonus, maximum, with a hulk instead of a covetor. After that modulated lasers and t2 crystals can still be used on any barge. And using it for omber means high sec which totally negates its value for defense. Plus your number is no doubt based on a miner going 24/7 non stop without having to work in the fact that most solo miners have to haul their own ore and constantly find omber rocks in systems that are most likely farmed to hell. This is obviously a joke but for anyone who would take it the least bit seriously, please keep the facts in mind...

Live Eye

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.03.02 17:04:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Jarjar
If invention gets fixed, and hulks drop in prices to, say, 200 mil, the blueprint won't sell for 100Bn anymore, which is his point.

Exactly.

If I bought a Hulk BPO for 100b today, and invention for hulks was added tomorrow, I would almost instantly lose 40-50 billion. It would be as if I just lost a titan, basically. Laughing


I wonder if this explains all the Exhumer BPOs for sale in the Sales folder?

Yes, it does explain it Twisted Evil

prathe
Minmatar
Omega Enterprises
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2007.03.02 17:08:00 - [41]
 

if anybody wants to buy a hulk for 15bln iskies i got one ready to go !

convo me ingame Very Happy

Morgain dVher
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2007.03.02 17:17:00 - [42]
 

Mortania:

I'll take any and all free T2 BPCs you are willing to give to me. Heck, I'll even fly to you to pick them up!

Hugs,

M.


Inevitability
Caldari
Death By Association
Posted - 2007.03.02 22:00:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Mortania
People have claimed it takes no effort and costs nothing to capitalize on T2 BPOs, and yet, somehow, when offered FREE T2 BPCs, no one wants them. Something doesn't add up.

Anytime you want to give me free T2 BPC's...I'd be more than happy to take them from you. I'm a small time trader, builder and would love the opportunity to make a little capital from T2 ship production so I could provide more collateral in my freighter service!SmileCool

Quilan Ziller
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.03.08 08:02:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: Quilan Ziller

...ZERO risk...



I don't think you've ever been war-dec'd by 3 corps simultaneously. EVE is a primarily PvP game. Nothing has ZERO risk.

And several of the T2 BPOs you listed can be made into good money makers.

People want stuff for free without effort.

The problem is in supply.

If you had the BPO you'd charge what the market could bare as well. It's not GREED. It's an open market. If you don't charge what the market will bear, someone will buy up your T2 goods and resell them for the profit they will earn. This is why BIG and other producers who refused to increase pricing had cues of multiple years on all of their goods. Fat lot good that was doing anyone.


What yoiu are practicing is called demagogy.

No, you are NOT risking your BPOs if you are wardecced. Your BPOs are sitting safe and sound inside an NPC station.

If you have jump clones and alts (and everyone does), you don't even need to stop production in times of war.

It is ZERO risk - uless you get scammed out of your precious BPO.

If I am a miner, a ratter, or a mission runner, I cannot safely practice these activities while the war is on. Because I have to undock, you know. Not so with a T2 BPO.

And if you were wondering, yes, I have been wardecced by 4 corps simultaneously. So what?

Now, as far as "open market" goes... There is NO "OPEN" OR "FREE" T2 MARKET IN EVE!!!! There are very few "good" T2 BPOs, which are consolidated in the hands of the chosen few. Yes, very, very few.

These few don't have any competition. Their "business" has no operating costs whatsoever. They do not have to compete, and they do not compete with each other - because their stuff will be bought up anyway. There is no danger whatsoever that someone else will make a better ship or module - because the number of BPOs seeded has been hardwired by CCP.

What is really annoying is that a lot of these people then go, post to the forums, and try to justify the existence of theit isk printers. Really sad.

Extregar Qvint
Caldari
FinFleet
Posted - 2007.03.08 13:56:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Quilan Ziller
These few don't have any competition. Their "business" has no operating costs whatsoever. They do not have to compete, and they do not compete with each other - because their stuff will be bought up anyway. There is no danger whatsoever that someone else will make a better ship or module - because the number of BPOs seeded has been hardwired by CCP.


1. There is fierce competition among most of the t2 producers.

2. The business has operating costs.

3. There is no guarantuee your stuff will sell if you dont undercut heavily, or play marketjockey 24/7.

Niton Stormrider
Offworld Miners and Fabricators Guild
Rising Orbit Free Trade League
Posted - 2007.03.08 20:39:00 - [46]
 

"15.746 Billion ISK, per.

This represents the difference between a max'd Exhumer pilot vs. a max'd Covetor pilot mining Omber for a year."

Wait a sec, you mean to say that you think a fair market price for a piece of equipment is a price that it takes a YEAR to repay? Let's say my niece is running a lemonade stand and could theoretically sell $50 worth of lemonade a day (assuming she didn't, you know, have ANY life other than selling lemonade), are you saying she should be charged $18520 for a crate, a pitcher, and a handpainted sign? ROI times on the order of years is acceptable in RL business (those with low margins anyway) like gravel mining and such, but to suggest that people should pony up that kinda case in game is ludicrous. If a Hulk actually sold for that much, I'd give not a thought to mining in a covetor for the rest of my Eve days, since then I could turn a profit at least once before I get sick of the game and leave. How did you arrive at a year's mining as a reasonable time frame? Why not ten years?


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